The Nineteenth Byte

Bubbler

00:46

Maybe re-pin the election announcement?

caird coinheringaahing

I don't think we can

at least, it only shows "unpin" for me

Bubbler

It does show "pin this message" for me

caird coinheringaahing

Weird

Bubbler

On first click it apparently unpinned instead of repinning, so I had to do it again and it is now repinned

doubly weird

caird coinheringaahing

The question collection thread is due to be posted at any point in the next few days tbh

It's typically posted a week away from the nominations opening, so that'd be the 19th

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: write the "index by number" sequence

att

01:47

anyone have other feedback on codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25092 ? I'm thinking of going with xnor's comment, undecided on pajonk's

Aiden Chow

@att is it allowed for submissions to just graph the function directly instead of asking for input

(I assume no)

Bubbler

Wtf, this code compiles to loopless code

No need to apply mathematics with your own brain

att

@AidenChow it's not graphical-output

user

@Bubbler Is it because usize is finite?

Because I saw a thing involving the Collatz conjecture and the compiler optimized the whole thing away because it held for ints (that was gcc or clang compiling C though)

Bubbler

not sure, it appears to me that the compiler can apply sum(x^2 for x in 1..n) formula

New Posts

03:08

0

Q: Shorten this dns txt record request script as much as possible

I have made a short script that will pull dns txt records down from a server and combine them into a single string. DNS txt records are: 1.website.com 2.website.com 3.website.com each of these are iterated through using the single digit number. the double quotes at the beginning and the end of th...

Aiden Chow

03:35

@att rip, figured I would ask tho

PyGamer0

05:19

in flax, 11 secs ago, by PyGamer0

CMP: Nil type?

emanresu A

Nah

0

PyGamer0

doesn't really replace nil

for example FindIndexOf([1,2,3],4) → 0

whereas FindIndexOf([1,2,3],4) → Nil

i could use []

but what if this happens AllEqualsReturn([[], [], []]) → []

(k also has nil types)

emanresu A

Nil types are bizarre and rarely make sense

@PyGamer0 -1

PyGamer0

i will just keep it [] for now

mousetail

06:03

@Neil Thanks, I know what a page fault is. However, in this case you should get only 2 page faults right? One for loading the program and one for accessing the memory the program is using for the first time

Neil

08:33

@mousetail you'll at least get a fault for each page of the program including all of the linked libraries and shared objects that are needed for it to run

note that you get a page fault for a shared library even though it's in memory; it's just not in your memory yet

mousetail

@Neil A empty program shouldn't require that many shared libaries right? Maybe like 10-20

Neil

I really have no idea

mousetail

Do you know a convenient way to measure page faults offline?

pxeger

10:00

@mousetail ATO's measurement will also include the page faults of the compiler and a few intermediate wrapper processes used by ATO

mousetail

@pxeger I get that. I wouldn't have cared about page faults at all if it hadn't been shown but now that I see it I'm wondering what a accurate measurement would look like

pxeger

@mousetail ato.pxeger.com/…

py3programmer

10:22

ATO is no match against TIO

looks like it won't even output "hello world

even if you write main(){printf("hello world");}

TIO atleast prints it

mousetail

10:41

@py3programmer ATO prints it?

mousetail

10:52

this is more like it: ato.pxeger.com/…

pxeger

11:31

@py3programmer What?

user

11:52

@py3programmer sounds like a you problem lol

Maybe it’s just taking longer to execute

mousetail

Hello world prints instantly though

Maybe the runner was down for a moment

emanresu A

ATO is kinda sus sometimes

~~use DSO~~

mousetail

The frontend is super nice though

I'd like ATO's frontend with DSOs backend

py3programmer

guess something was wrong with my laptop

emanresu A

"backend"

py3programmer

11:57

now its printing

mousetail

Code running system

emanresu A

It's just browser JS / a python venv

mousetail

Oh really?

That explains the weird language selection

emanresu A

Pretty much - I use pyodide.org for the python stuff and I occasionally find motivation to fiddle with wasm and other stuff

In theory porting v86's lua / ruby should be possible for example

mousetail

did it use to have a backend? I thought I remember some talk about streaming logs over websockets but that might have been another tool

emanresu A

12:00

That's probably ATO. It's never had a backend, from the start the whole premise was broswer-based stuff

Also that my wrapper files would load interpreters from source for easy autoupdate

mousetail

That's cool

My CellTail online interpreter works like that too

emanresu A

rust to wasm?

mousetail

Yea

Built in a github action

emanresu A

steals

mousetail

Feel free to steal my code

emanresu A

12:03

Bubbler has TIB which operates on a similar premise

@mousetail It's probably more readable than ngn/k or rustpython lol

ngn/k is hand-golfed and does some weird allocation stuff, rustpython is fricking webpacked

mousetail

Damn you are going to run out of 3 letter acronyms soon if everyone builds a online runner tool

py3programmer

true

mousetail

@emanresuA github.com/mousetail/CellTail/blob/main/.github/workflows/…

Next up:
RCO: Run Code Online
RIC: Run it on a Computer
TOO: Try On a Online system
TRO: TRy it online Once
UTO: Undertake this online
UIO: Undertake it online
STOO: Seek the Output Online

pxeger

12:28

@mousetail RTO (had/has/was going to have) that I think

mousetail

@pxeger That could be it. In that case I'd like to see RTO's backend with ATO's frontend

pxeger

I am currently rewriting ATO's backend so hopefully you'll like it more soon lol

I'm sure it will start off more buggy but hopefully quickly become less buggy than the old one

mousetail

Like there is nothing wrong with your backend, it's just I vagely remember RTO having some cool features. I don't remember what they where though

@pxeger What are you rewriting it in?

pxeger

@mousetail Streaming I/O was one of them, and ATO's new backend should make it easier to add that

Rust

mousetail

Cool cool

pxeger

12:34

Previously a mishmash of Go, C, Zsh, and Bash

There's nothing particularly wrong with any of those, but I chose each as the "right tool for the job" and it's much nicer to have one tool which is right for all the jobs

mousetail

Need any help? I'm looking for something to practice some rust with

Adám

@mousetail TOI: Try On Internet

pxeger

@mousetail Sorry, I'm doing perfectly fine at the moment ;)

thejonymyster

Execute Everything Externally

pxeger

It's so far a pretty simple program honestly, the only hard part is working out what it needs to do

mousetail

12:35

@pxeger OK, looking forward to see how it turns out

@thejonymyster Execute Anything Elsewhere

pxeger

@Adám (Yoda voice) Online, Try It!

thejonymyster

Do Or Do Not, There Is No Try It Online!

7

mousetail

Don't not try it not offline

thejonymyster

Try

mousetail

T

thejonymyster

12:38

we should call those "run snippet" ones "Try It Right Here"

mousetail

TIRH, I like that acronym

PyGamer0

@Adám also TOI times of india

mousetail

TII: Time it in India
Then place the servers in India

thejonymyster

@mousetail code golf scoring, popcon validation? n votes for a valid answer :P

mousetail

@pxeger I remember now, there was going to be a language upload feature that I found really interesting

@thejonymyster Popcorn validation?

thejonymyster

12:44

yeah, you throw it in the microwave, and if it doesnt blow up the microwave or catch on fire, its valid

Try It In The Microwave!

Oh wait that wasnt the full idea, i forgot to mention the part that makes popcon validation make sense

have a list of ideas that you need to be able to communicate in the grammar you wrote

people vote for how much it makes sense / is internally consistent

this would have also made it clearer that i was mostly joking :-) sadly y_y

mousetail

Interesting, but sounds more like natural language design than programing language design

thejonymyster

thats what it originally was actually

Aug 30 at 13:39, by mousetail

Challenge idea: English x Your lang polyglot. Your program must also pass some grammar checker with no warnings but also do something useful in your programing language.

Aug 30 at 13:52, by thejonymyster

tbh i feel like it might be more reasonable to just.. write up a grammar

mousetail

Lol I'm criticizing myself

I interpreted the second comment as "make a polyglot between your language and this simplified english grammar" but you took it as "write a grammar that parses English"

thejonymyster

oh not at all

my original meaning there was "english is too complicated, maybe make your own grammar for people to polyglot with"

but now im thinking "english is too complicated, any grammar you invent for the challenge is probably too arbitrary, how about have people invent their own grammar? :P"

mousetail

Write a formal grammar that could also be used like a natural language

pxeger

12:59

I'm sure there are actual natural languages which have simple enough grammars that they can feasibly be formalised

(aside: do conlangs count as natural languages?)

mousetail

@pxeger I strongly doubt it

@pxeger Conlangs attempt to mimic real languages so have the same types of features

thejonymyster

@pxeger for our purposes id say the distinction should be "languages created for this challenge" and "languages created for other reasons" :P

mousetail

Once a conlang is used by enough people it becomes natural

pxeger

well, like, Lojban is deliberately created to have a defined formal grammar

mousetail

But at that point the language will start evolving away from the way it is designed

Soon ceasing to be able to be formally specified, even if it originally was

Radvylf Programs

13:05

Yeah, if we define languages by their implementations, literally everyone has their own implementation and they often differ

py3programmer

for some reason SE seems to reward positive stuff and discourage negative downvotes. i lost 1 rep for downvoting

@RadvylfPrograms i don't

mousetail

@py3programmer Makes sense IMHO

py3programmer

no as in

SE doesn't leave it alone

mousetail

1 rep isn't a lot but enough to discourage rechless downvoting

py3programmer

as in "No bad feedback"

true

mousetail

13:07

@py3programmer We're talking about natural languages here

py3programmer

kinda waiting for PPCG election

who all are you guys voting for

just curious

Radvylf Programs

@mousetail I think they're saying they don't define languages by their implementations

@py3programmer We don't even know who's running yet :p

mousetail

I'm voting for the "New posts" bot

thejonymyster

what's an implementation of a natural language?

mousetail

@thejonymyster Like what some real person speaks and understands

Radvylf Programs

13:08

@thejonymyster How someone uses and understands it

thejonymyster

Try It On Me!

py3programmer

TIOM

seriously, there could be a three-letter abbreviation lawsuit apocalypse if everyone made their own lang executor

mousetail

There are so many already

thejonymyster

lol, tio style site but its just an email form, and someone on the other end reads the language specification, manually calculates the output, and emails it back

py3programmer

how many exactly?

Radvylf Programs

13:10

@py3programmer What do you mean

mousetail

@thejonymyster This would be hilarious. I'm in a meeting then "Sorry, I need to quickly figure out what this rust code would output, I'll be right back"

py3programmer

about what

@thejonymyster that site would have a lot of ads

or you'll need to subscribe (at a high rate) to it

mousetail

John will sponsor all the runners

py3programmer

who??

mousetail

thejohnmyster

thejonymyster

13:12

yes, all my money is being funneled into the "Try It On Us" program

i truly believe it is the future of programming

or something like that

theres definitely not some sort of money laundering thing going on

mousetail

Makes sense

lyxal

@thejonymyster no traces of tax evasion?

py3programmer

@mousetail his name is "theJONYmyster"

mousetail

Money laundering makes losing money profitable

thejonymyster

Aug 30 at 14:18, by lyxal

better call lyxal!

mousetail

13:14

@py3programmer Jonyy is short for John right?

py3programmer

i have no idea

ask The Man himself

thejonymyster

ill pretty much answer to anything matching /j.+/i

Neil

@mousetail Charcoal -v, 11 bytes: Print Input

thejonymyster

ive answered to john, jacob, joe, joshua...

py3programmer

alright then. /jony + /0 == /john?

mousetail

13:15

I listen to literally any word that starts with M

or A

lyxal

@thejonymyster Joe Obamiden

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Calculating Pi using the Gregory-Leibniz series unto a point based off my previous challenge, this wikipedia article, and a Scratch project Your task: given i, calculate π till i terms of the Gregory-Leibniz series. The series: $$\frac{\pi}{4}=1-\frac{1}{3}+\frac{1}{5}-\frac{1}{7}+\frac{1}{9}-....

py3programmer

thats his name?

and btw thats my post

mousetail

nice

py3programmer

no it cant be

mousetail

13:17

seems there have been very few (quality) posts recently

py3programmer

would mine be one of them

thejonymyster

my irl name is jonathan, but honestly i identify more with my internet handle :P

py3programmer

noice name

thejonymyster

thanks it was a gift

4

py3programmer

mines hardly related to my internet name

mousetail

13:19

I'm called mouse a lot IRL too

thejonymyster

that kinda owns

@py3programmer whaaaat you mean you arent named after programming in a language that... may or may not have existed when you were born

py3programmer

ik python was around before i was born

im called a nerd for reading irl

thejonymyster

right but py3

py3programmer

i was born 2 years after it

oops tmi

thejonymyster

doxxed, now i have your ssn and your ip and your private key and

mousetail

13:22

Damn you're a baby

py3programmer

nope

not that young

thejonymyster

its crazy how young everyone on here is

py3programmer

and... private key as in RSA key?

thejonymyster

imma be honest i read it in an xkcd and assumed it was important

mousetail

@py3programmer SSH or PGP?

py3programmer

13:23

for your info my p and q are 17 and 11

PGP

jk

tho i dont use it

anymore

mousetail

People don't really use PGP anymore :/

py3programmer

ik

i read about it in The Code book

very old book

mousetail

I'm sad we got rid of all the nice decentrelized privacy and encryption systems in favor of centralized ones where some big company can cancel your key at any time

py3programmer

released in 1999

Sandbox Posts

14:06

-1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Random Jagged Array code-golf random Generate a random jagged array, for example: [[[],[]],[[[],[[]]]]] What distribution you use is very flexible, but: Every possible array, even very large ones, needs to have some probability of being generated. These probabilities don't have to be even. The ...

thejonymyster

14:16

@SandboxPosts @mousetail noob question: being able to generate arbitrarily large output while remaining finitely large on average just means that larger output is weighted as less likely to happen, right? or am i missing something

wait i just understood your comment about it [facepalm] sorry for the ping lol

mousetail

@thejonymyster Exactly

thejonymyster

note to self: before sending a question, see if asking it made you understand the answer

thank you though :-)

graffe

15:36

in python is there an equivalent defaultdict for lists so I can do L[12] = 3 and if L isn't that long it just extends it with zeros to that length and then assigns 3?

Aiden Chow

@graffe im not aware of anything like that... maybe just make your own function that do that instead, or maybe make custom list class with custom __getitem__ dunder method?

graffe

@AidenChow your latter idea is interesting

could you show me how to do that?

Aiden Chow

@graffe look here: stackoverflow.com/questions/6560354/…

graffe

thanks

Aiden Chow

np!

PyGamer0

15:48

CMP: · or ⇒ for comments?

thejonymyster

@PyGamer0 not sure i like either, but dot certainly before arrow

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster then what is a good character?

Aiden Chow

i like # personally :PP

PyGamer0

cant use that

Aiden Chow

i figured as much, i was just joking

PyGamer0

15:52

i also dont want to use APL's lamp character

thejonymyster

@PyGamer0 idk dot is just kinda hard to see and arrow seems too much like it Does something

PyGamer0

because i confuse it with the letter A

@thejonymyster yeah the dot is hard to see...

Adám

@PyGamer0 Why‽

thejonymyster

‽ for comments :P

PyGamer0

@Adám which character should i use?

@thejonymyster ‽

Adám

15:53

@PyGamer0 Why choice between those two?

thejonymyster

/j at the end of a line to turn it into a comment /j

Aiden Chow

@Adám why that ? looking so weird lol

thejonymyster

interrobang

mousetail

@thejonymyster My favorite chracter

Really sad unicode is missing the ¿ version though

What if I want to interobang in spanish?

PyGamer0

@Adám if you don't like the choices, you can give me suggestions for comment characters :P

@thejonymyster hard to parse :P

this is for flax obviously

thejonymyster

15:57

@PyGamer0 what no it isnt lol

but also yeah dont do that

PyGamer0

How about ∫ :P

the integral

thejonymyster

could work

@PyGamer0 what symbols are you already using?

PyGamer0

∫ Sum of n terms of the series:
∫      1-½+¼-⅛+···
∫ nth term is just (-2)ⁿ
Σ¯2*ι

Aiden Chow

lol what if you wanted to use that symbol for, you know, an integration builtin?

oh

thejonymyster

looks pretty good but also ^^

PyGamer0

16:00

@thejonymyster github.com/PyGamer0/flax/blob/revamp-elements/docs/codepage.txt

Aiden Chow

looks weird to me tho lol

PyGamer0

how about ⊳

@AidenChow yes :P

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 i suppose that could work

thejonymyster

how about an ornamental dingbat?

will make your comments look extra fancy

PyGamer0

non of them render for me

thejonymyster

16:03

LOL sad

Aiden Chow

@thejonymyster dang those look cool

how u find those

thejonymyster

@AidenChow by going on that website :P check the url for navigation breakdown

@PyGamer0 pretty good, renders a lil weirdly small but its clearly visible and i can tell what it is :-)

im guessing none of these will render for you either but i also like these: ǂʬʭſɁʞ ǂʬʭſɁʞ

either way this has definitely given me new inspiration for where to look for code sheet symbols lol

Aiden Chow

@thejonymyster cool

thejonymyster

oh the reversed k was a little lower on the line than i thought itd be

i like a good bit of verticality to the commnemt symbol :-)

Wezl'

⍝ is a good comment character

besides, that's what it was originally for

thejonymyster

16:09

16 mins ago, by PyGamer0

i also dont want to use APL's lamp character

Aiden Chow

@Wezl' brooo idk why but when i look at that i immediately think amogus :|

Adám

@PyGamer0 Do you use , for anything?

thejonymyster

@PyGamer0 wait isnt this already all 256 characters or are you replacing one?

DLosc

^

My suggestion on what character to use for comments will depend on whether it's a character from the codepage or a character outside the codepage.

thejonymyster

that is a good point

also quickquestion how long is a room inactive to make it freeze

DLosc

16:33

@py3programmer I love The Code Book! Kinda weird to hear it called "very old," but I guess there have been a lot of advances in cryptography since 1999.

@thejonymyster Like 15 days maybe? You can probably check any frozen room's transcript and see how many days between the last real message and "This room has been frozen"

Unrelated String

yeah i think it's 14 or 15

thejonymyster

ty

Neil

@PyGamer0 ⅔+⅓(-½)ⁿ

caird coinheringaahing

17:07

@thejonymyster It happens at midnight UTC, so between 14 and 15 days, depending on timing. However, if a room is unfrozen and no one messages, it refreezes in 7 days IIRC

thejonymyster

thank you good to know

thejonymyster

17:27

CMC: code-challenge decode run length encoding, score is the length of your program's run length encoding, lowest score wins :P

WARNING: silly ^

DLosc

@thejonymyster So you want to antifreeze when it hits 13. ~~Same as the population count at which you should build a house in Age of Empires II.~~

user

I wonder which tarpit would be best for this sort of thing

thejonymyster

@DLosc noted, and noted!

@user i wanna say unary

DLosc

Nah, that would have an enormous score

Maybe straight BF, honestly

Actually, no, a language that could do it in very few characters would win. So it basically just turns into code-golf.

mathcat

Hye

Ready to post?

thejonymyster

17:30

@DLosc would it? im not so sure

@mathcat what does "Matrix can be arbitrarily nested" mean?

mathcat

now that I think about it, that's silly

thanks

thejonymyster

"can be a single integer or wrapped in a list" suggest: "can be taken as..."

not sure if it matters, other than that it looks good :-) i kinda wanna try it too lol

i feel like im gonna get sniped though :P

mathcat

@thejonymyster As you can see, my vocabulary is nearly infinite

user

So is mine. It consists of "argh", "aargh", "aaargh", ... :P

thejonymyster

i mean it was probably fine as is, but a little extra clarity never hurt anyone :P (i think)

@user obligatory /a+rgh/

DLosc

18:16

@thejonymyster Attempt This Online!

(but you have to wait till it times out to see any output)

@thejonymyster It would score 1+log_10(length), which I'm guessing (based on a very unscientific survey of Lenguage answers on this site) would come to somewhere between 30 and 100. Most modern golflangs should be able to answer in under 15 bytes and therefore score less than 30.

So not enormous, I guess, but I don't think it would win.

thejonymyster

ah ok

right and very few solutions can be "golfed" by removing a unique character and replacing it by duplicating another character in place

DLosc

19:04

I suppose you'll want to define your RLE syntax a bit carefully because what if some of the characters are digits? a211 could represent aa1 or 211 as.

thejonymyster

whoops lol

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 Converges to 2/3 right?

DLosc

@emanresuA Yep

thejonymyster

19:26

CMP: What do you think of coming up with a solution to a challenge while it is still in the sandbox?

Unrelated String

it's kinda scummy

like if something just dawns on you when you're reviewing it there's nothing wrong with that
but don't actually try to work it out into a golfed answer

mathcat

^^

thejonymyster

19:47

just seen some crazy shit, added an alternate option to a regex and it lost a match

not a backref thing or anything

wait nvm i see what happened lol

pxeger

20:04

Vim's regexes seem to evaluate ambiguous repetitions backwards. So matching 'aaa' against /a*a*/ produces (), (aaa)

That really annoys me because it's counterintuitive

although maybe there's some good reason for it

thejonymyster

produces only (), (aaa)?

pxeger

If you take only the first of the ambiguous matches, which vim almost always does, then yes

that's one match with two groups, btw

thejonymyster

oh, i understand now, yeah thats weird

what about /a+a*/?

still ambiguous, but possibly enlightening

graffe

Evening

thejonymyster

20:19

odding? oddening?

graffe

@thejonymyster :)

Still no QEII questions

Or ones about queuing for 24 hours

Only 22 now youtu.be/cJxDwDzAwEs

thejonymyster

i cant think of anything thematically related to make a challenge of :P

and i cant imagine anything kc scoring positively

graffe

kc== King Charles ?

@thejonymyster I feel an infinite queue question would be respectful :)

(infinite line for US people)

emanresu A

20:37

CMC: Given a date, output either "God save the queen" or "God save the King" depending on the gender of the ruling British monarch at the time.

caird coinheringaahing

20:47

print("God save the King"), accurate 82% of the time

Fun fact, 3 of English/British queens have ruled for a total of 177 years

New Posts

0

Q: Advanced Binary Number System

Your task is to write a program that calculates the amount of different ways to display any given whole positive number using the following rules: Meet the 'advanced binary system': Any whole positive number can be displayed in binary form, but each bit can have every number from 0 to 9. This mea...

number number-theory binary

thejonymyster

21:20

@graffe kolmogorov complexity XD

emanresu A

16

Q: Write a number in overflowed binary

We all know how binary conversion works: the sequence of bits $$ b_1, b_2, ..., b_{n-1}, b_n $$ encodes the number $$ b_1 \times 2^{n-1} + b_2 \times 2^{n-2} + ... + b_{n-1} \times 2^1 + b_n \times 2^0 $$ This gives an unambiguous representation when we limit all bits \$ b_i \$ to be only 0 or 1....

code-golf number combinatorics binary base-conversion

thejonymyster

@cairdcoinheringaahing good lord

emanresu A

Slightly different in that you output the amount instead of the representations and c is always 10 but meh

caird coinheringaahing

Closely related, but not a dupe imo

The max digit input is a key thing

Plus, different digit lengths, and leading zeros

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