The Nineteenth Byte

Sandbox Posts

00:56

0

Erasure Poetry answer-chaining code-challenge Given two strings \$A\$ and \$B\$, determine if string \$A\$ can be transformed into string \$B\$ by only removing characters from string \$A\$. However, you will not be "writing" programs to solve this challenge, so much as you will be finding them i...

emanresu A

02:31

@mods: When you handle a comment flag, do you see other comments on the same post or just that comment?

Jo King

the queue has only that comment, but i go to the answer itself to do other cleanup

i wish i could edit silently, oof

emanresu A

Same :p

The homepage is so messed up that I kinda want to go all in and clean up everything while it's not making anything worse

Steffan

04:13

why does 10k rep show edit tags here when you can just edit the question with the tags before 10k?

emanresu A

QoL

Aiden Chow

04:51

vtc everyone: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/251588/…

New Posts

05:06

-1

Q: Variables can't be seen at the debug pane of vscode

I have run python on spider before. I'm new to vscode, but my current project requires vscode to run. When I try to debug and run, I can't see the variables in the left pane. The screenshoot as below Please advise. Thank you.

code-golf

Aiden Chow

@Steffan dang how come they dont have that button for <10k

that would save me some clicks

lyxal

@Steffan because it's a quicker edit. You don't have to deal with editing the rest of the question

It's for easy retagging

Probably a SO focused feature

But a feature nonetheless

Also @Steffan

Jul 30, 2021 at 9:19, by lyxal

Some fun links: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/60206/question-about-advacado, https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5828/the-many-memes-of-ppcg and https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/tools

Now that you're able to view them

Aiden Chow

:\ i wanna view them, too bad im still far from 10k

lyxal

Well you can view two of them with the internet archive lol

The first two links are archived

The third is just a site stats overview thing no one ever really uses

Aiden Chow

how come the 2nd one is deleted?

many meme of ppcg, im curious to know what they are

lyxal

05:19

13

Q: What happened to the memes page?

I was just browsing the Many Memes of Meta when the question was edited in to add, next to the PPCG entry: and recently deleted Not believing this, I clicked on the link, only to find out that it had. Why? Why was the post deleted? While it wasn't the best fit for a Meta question, it was ...

discussion deleted-questions

Apparently the memes were being done to death

People were apparently over-saturating chat with them to the point where they were unfunny

Jo King

isn't that just the natural life cycle of a meme

lyxal

Well yes, but from what I'm reading in the explanation post, they were too overdone in chat

CMQ: Now that we have better control over noise in chat, should there be a new memes meta post?

8

Jo King

no thank you

emanresu A

yes

Aiden Chow

yea sure why not lol, im curious what the meme are

Unrelated String

06:22

i'd say no but it's a discussion worth having

lyxal

@UnrelatedString why not?

Razetime

@lyxal no

lyxal

@Razetime why not?

people say no but don't explain why

Razetime

i think it will still end up in the same way

there is a ppcg reddit which definitely could benefit more from memes

and it is a much better place to share them as compared to a meta question.

lyxal

it's not to share memes, it's to document them

Razetime

06:35

reddit is still a better place

lyxal

for memes that are to do with what happens here?

Razetime

yes, it is r/ppcg and related to this place after all

lyxal

except it's less accessible than here because some people might not have reddit

or might not want to make a reddit account

Razetime

it's still open for viewing. it's not too much to ask, a ten minute mail is enough to make an account

lyxal

only problem with reddit is that documented memes aren't editable by everyone

plus it doesn't lend itself to a wiki-like Q&A format

caird coinheringaahing

07:44

@lyxal Please no

Why do we need to make a list of what memes are currently active here?

Aiden Chow

i would be interested to know about cgcc memes, its kinda like that other post with a list of abbreviations/terms, very interesting and helpful to understand what yall r talking about

lyxal

08:05

@cairdcoinheringaahing same could be asked about the list of users meta post

To which the answer is documentation and preservation of site history

And so that the new wave of golfers can have a legacy of their own

This isn't 2017 where chat is unruly and full of noise - this is a time where chat is actively striving to stay on topic

The argument that a memes post is "more of a FAQ on how to be irritating than a historically significant question" isn't a problem anymore. Noise gets moved to the off topic room as soon as it becomes a problem

With the right disclaimers and usage guidelines, I think a memes post will work just fine

emanresu A

Also we must document Lyxal's fridge

Aiden Chow

what kinda memes r there anyways lol, i feel like idk any of them

mousetail

:(

lyxal

F

Aiden Chow

08:22

F

emanresu A

G

pxeger

@lyxal Yes, why do we need the list of users meta post?

emanresu A

Every other language tag wiki: "For challenges related to <language>".
Vyxal tag wiki: *advertises*

lyxal

@emanresuA but it doesn't

Hell, I tried submitting an edit to do just that once and it got rejected for doing that

Unless you mean CRSE

In which case that's the whole reason we posted there :p

pxeger

I just edited the tag wiki to remove the first sentence (because it's not as important as the rest, don't come at me) but I accidentally removed the "U" from "Use" and now I can't edit it again

thanks @AidenChow

Aiden Chow

08:37

@pxeger np :D

lyxal

@pxeger fair enough.

pxeger

"Vyxal is a stack-based golfing language with an emphasis on readability." was the first sentence, for reference

mousetail

I too find ¡²³¤€¼½¾‘ very readable

lyxal

Yeah, that doesn't need to be in the excerpt

@pxeger ^

@mousetail well duh that's your problem - that's not vyxal at all :p

emanresu A

It's technically in the SBCS

But yeah nah

@mousetail Find me any Vyxal program and I'll explain what it does

mousetail

08:40

I don't doubt you can

lyxal

@emanresuA ³ isn't

mousetail

I just held alt and pressed every number key

emanresu A

@lyxal Was just about to correct you on that :p

pxeger

@mousetail interesting, I got ¹²³€½¾{[]}

lyxal

@emanresuA ‘ isn't either

mousetail

08:41

¡²³¤€¼½¾‘’¥×

pxeger

before we go posting long strings of random characters, let's move to the sandbox

or would OTT be better

mousetail

Hmmm now I want to build a language that you can write by just holding down the alt key on a US-Inernational keyboard

lyxal

@pxeger Sandbox if it's just characters, OTT if it's discussing keyboard layouts

pxeger

@mousetail I believe Jelly was built kinda with that goal

emanresu A

@lyxal ~~Jelly~~

pxeger

08:42

I don't think it was trying to use only the Alt key

emanresu A

Speaking of OTT:

pxeger

but US-International, yeah

emanresu A

18 hours ago, by mousetail

Petition to rename OTTNB to "byte 20 and up"

pxeger

I'd prefer "Bytes Twenty And Up"

mousetail

That would work just as well

lyxal

08:43

Actually it's Bytes Twenty-one and up

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/38249

20th already exists

mousetail

Twenty-one and up sounds better

round numbers are ugly

lyxal

Only problem is that it sounds like it's a NSFW room

Like it's age restricted

mousetail

True

Jo King

200th byte, no golfing allowed

mousetail

Golfing is pretty NSFW though

lyxal

08:45

How about The Not-teenth Byte

mousetail

Not Safe for Production Code

@lyxal Would have the same acryonym

emanresu A

Aug 3, 2021 at 23:35, by caird coinheringaahing

Especially kinky Jelly coders use chains in their pornography :P

what the actual hell

Aug 3, 2021 at 23:25, 9 minutes total – 42 messages, 7 users, 12 stars

Bookmarked Aug 3, 2021 at 23:35 by lyxal

lyxal

@mousetail TN-tB

@emanresuA that was one of the conversations ever had

@lyxal even better - TN'tB

mousetail

The 17th trit

Niko

wth did i just read

lyxal

08:52

It's titled what it is for a reason

Niko

I can understand the downvote on this question but I am kinda curious about the self-answer downvote.

emanresu A

It's pretty clear that they just posted the whole thing to show off

Niko

@emanresuA hmmm good point

mousetail

I do like the idea of not including variable names in code length

Since it's so easy to lose track of which is which

and you can reduce them all to a single character anyways and still preserve meaning

Niko

09:20

@mousetail it is a cool idea, but it increases the difficulty of byte counting, and have many situation that may cause problem

mousetail

Yea it would be highly language specific

but we have similar flexible rules for IO methods

Niko

for example, when you want to do a=a+5 five times you can x=5 and then a=a+x five time, either causing weird definition in rule or making people doing less-golf code just to abuse this rule.

mousetail

You can already do that

Niko

there will be alot of extra, lengthy variables

mousetail

I don't see that as a problem

There is no advantage in making variables longer

you are just allowed to describe what the variable is for

emanresu A

09:25

What about in langs where you can get the name of a variable somehow

mousetail

You shouldn't be allowed to do that. If the variable name matters at all you need to count it

Niko

imagine people having a variable that is 10^9 byte long

mousetail

only if you can reduce it to 1 byte without effecting the program can it be valid

So also if you have more than 82 variables it also doesn't count anymore

rest of the variables count for 2 bytes etc.

Jo King

it just seems to be complicated to implement that when you can just have one byte variables

Niko

There will be people that using unnecessary long variable name just to mess with others

Jo King

09:27

it also doesn't really apply to every lang, e.g. perl with the sigils

emanresu A

^^^

Jo King

also @emanresuA i finally worked through most of your flags, that high flag counter was triggering me

mousetail

@Niko There is no reason to do this

emanresu A

@JoKing Lol

mousetail

It's just for longish programs it's easy to lose track of what you are doing

emanresu A

09:29

@JoKing In a month it'll be someone else's problem

Niko

@mousetail Some people don't need reason to mess with others(or the community)

mousetail

Some people will but not enough to be a major problem I think

I don't think it's a good fit for every challenge but for problems where figuring out the shortest algorithm is more important I think it makes sense to use tokens as a aternate scoring mechanism

emanresu A

:/

Niko

You can just give out another non-golfed code after the counting competitive one to give other a clear view of the code while having the byte counting process simple

that's what most people do if they want others to appreciate their code

emanresu A

^

mousetail

09:35

Yes

But it's annoying when editing

Since you need to update both versions

Niko

@mousetail one single post occupying the whole page is a big problem

mousetail

Not really

Ok how about a alternate solution: If you provide a mimifier you can post the code pre-mimification and score it after mimification. As long as both do the same

Niko

then you just post both version

that's what most people do

mousetail

Seems like a unnecessary step

emanresu A

^^^

mousetail

09:40

I see people posting short solutions but then post TIO links to the expanded version

that's the wrong way around I think

emanresu A

If you mean Charcoal solutions, that's how the lang works

Niko

You can do meta question if you think it will work out, ask more people instead of having an argument with me - I am biased toward the old solution. Maybe more people approve the new version you suggested

emanresu A

Unlikely

mousetail

Again I don't think it should be a option for challege askers, not a default

emanresu A

Huh? Never stop avoiding triple negatives...

Niko

09:43

@mousetail what i mean is that posting two section of code and a TIO link of golfed answer, so the ungolf answer is just for decoration or explanation.

mousetail

That's the wrong way around and makes it really hard to improve a answer

emanresu A

No? It's not hard to understand a solution, especially if people explain code

Niko

the different in both code are only commented explainations and (perhaps) variable names

so people can suggest on both golfing aspect and algorithm

the ungolf version are not counted for validity or score, only to let others understand

mousetail

People rarely explain code and it's hard to keep explanations up to date when trying to improve the code

The hard part of code golfing is the smart tricks people use, not how they name their variables

The variable naming and spacing etc. draw attention away from the actually smart parts of the solutions

Niko

in fact, i think the long variable is what make code harder to read, since other parts of the code are short

emanresu A

09:51

^

mousetail

Strongly disagree

You don't need to make them super long but just using like a single word or a few letters or much much better than one letter

especially if you have many concepts that abbreviate to the same letter

Niko

some code only have 10ish bytes, having a single variable with name would possibly double their len

mousetail

Of course for super short programs

You wouldn't use these rules for those

I'm talking about the types of challenges where the optimal python answer is 500+ bytes

Or even 200+

You are of course free to still use a single letter if you believe it's more readable in your specific case

Niko

ok i am kinda tired stucking in this argument, I think you should go ask others around, they are more experienced then me in codegolfing and rule of the site

my opinion are not accurate sometime

mousetail

neither is mine

New Posts

10:08

0

Q: Find the nth Mersenne Prime

A number is a Mersenne Prime if it is both prime and can be written in the form 2m-1, where m is a positive integer. For example: 7 is a Mersenne Prime because it is 23-1 11 is not a Mersenne Prime because it cannot be written as 2m-1 15 is not a Mersenne Prime because it is not prime The fir...

code-golf primes

mousetail

11:11

LDQ Beter to have only bitwise or only logical "and" and "or" statements?

Jo King

combine the two

mousetail

11:27

how?

Jo King

make true (and truthy values) be -1, then all and/or/not operations are the same

lyxal

overloads based on type if you don't allow numbers to be treated as booleans

Jo King

11:57

unfortunately, boolean not won't act as logical not for most numbers

Radvylf Programs

13:23

@mousetail I'm gonna go with short-circuiting logical over bitwise

Bitwise is relatively rare, better for a library or a digraph (if this is a golfing lang) or something. Short circuiting logic is much more useful.

mousetail

Thanks for the commited opinion

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA I am a fan of renaming OTTNB to something less robotic

Maybe we could do another golf pun

pxeger

what about a bowling pun

We play more than one sport here

Radvylf Programs

I like "Bytes Twenty(-one) and Up" but I feel like that'd be a better name for TNH :p

pxeger

what's TNH?

Radvylf Programs

13:30

The Nineteenth House, a room for moving sensitive/political discussion

pxeger

oh right

what about "bytes one to eighteen"?

Radvylf Programs

Given that eighteen is the age of majority in most places, now it sounds like the opposite, a room for children to play in.

(and if you say "it already is" I'm kicking you :p)

(not really)

I like the idea of a bowling pun. Is there an equivalent of The Nineteenth Hole for bowling places?

pxeger

The bar?

lyxal

The Nineteenth Lane

mousetail

We can replace byte by something else

Radvylf Programs

13:34

Yeah, but that gets confusing

mousetail

19th bit, 19th nibble, 19th trit etc.

Radvylf Programs

We already have a Bakery, a House, a Byte, and probably more

pxeger

Another problem is that bowling is still on-topic here

we could try a code-trolling pun ;)

or even a non-objective tips pun!

Radvylf Programs

If we're pretty sure we're keeping OTTNB, and it's going to be an official room for off-topic stuff, this might be worth voting on on Meta

lyxal

@pxeger On-Topic Chat (Real) (Not Fake)

Radvylf Programs

13:36

The 4.359th Byte

pxeger

what about an Indonesian Gambling Spam pun

doesn't get any less on-topic than that

Radvylf Programs

Maybe

The Bakery used to be named Indonesian Gambling Spam once

I'd planned on regularly changing the name but we kept putting baking ingredients in there so I figured it could stay a bakery

lyxal

If we're going for other sport puns, we could go for Bass Pro Chatroom maybe

Or maybe "TNB Out-takes" or "TNB Bloopers"?

Radvylf Programs

I feel like that has the same unfinished feel as OTTNB

While also being unnecessarily imprecise about the room's purpose

pxeger

Call it The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® just to annoy DBA.SE even more

6

lyxal

13:42

Perfect room name: /j

pxeger

It would be very funny

but too impractical

lyxal

not if we rename this room to /srs :p

pxeger

That would imply everything here has to be serious

which it decidedly isn't

Radvylf Programs

How official is OTTNB going to be going forward? It was originally just an experiment, so there was never any real announcement or fanfare, and now it's pretty consistently got activity and around 4-5 users online. It's currently got the same ROs as normal TNB, and it has TNB in the name, so should we in some way formally make it an official room?

pxeger

What would make it official?

lyxal

13:46

@RadvylfPrograms only after a discussion on whether the community likes it

pxeger

Would that mean putting something about it in chatiquette or site policy?

Radvylf Programs

Maybe a chatiquette like TNB's, and mention of OTTNB in TNB's chatiquette.

I think giving it a new name would also be a good opporrunity to bring it up on Meta, where I don't think there's any evidence it exists

lyxal

I think a proper analysis of the results of the experiment should happen before naming/making it official happens

pxeger

@lyxal I was originally against the whole idea but I think it's worked fairly well

Radvylf Programs

@lyxal That's a good point, there's also some downsides of the room that need discussion

lyxal

13:48

@pxeger it works well, but maybe too well

I think it was Radvylf that mentioned a few weeks ago chat has become a little too "serious" or something like that

Radvylf Programs

But on the topic of making it official, I do feel like it'll need a chatquette, since we've had stuff like this:

in Off-Topic TNB, Aug 25 at 17:57, by Radvylf Programs

Quick reminder: OTTNB is not a sandbox room. Moving garbage or spam to this room, or taking advantage of exploits to put pinned messages in this room, is just as disallowed as it is anywhere else.

pxeger

I think TNB's chatiquette should just apply there without the "be on-topic" rule

Radvylf Programs

(Note that I said "just as disallowed as it is anywhere else" instead of "disallowed here" since there's not really any official rules for the room :p)

@pxeger The "make noise" section could also be changed in some ways

Although I guess we still don't want noise either

pxeger

I like all the "don't make noise" section's rules

Razetime

@UnrelatedString how well does brachylog fare with n'th number challenges?

pxeger

13:51

Especially the 3rd bullet point

It's allows me to basically say "noone asked" but way less rudely

Radvylf Programs

lol

I think some limited streams of thought should still be acceptable there, when it's at least partially relevant to literally anyone else, but that's a good point

lyxal

@pxeger no one asked :p

New Posts

0

Q: Sum of partition numbers

The partition function: In number theory, the partition function p(n) represents the number of possible partitions of a positive integer n into positive integers For instance, p(4) = 5 because the integer 4 has five possible partitions: 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 1 + 1 + 2 1 + 3 2 + 2 4 Your task: Accept...

code-golf number-theory integer-partitions

pxeger

I'm ok with "streams of thought" when they are thoughts about something that is already being discussed

→ 3 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

@pxeger definitely not this kind of thing though lol

Radvylf Programs

E.g., I like to talk about random things I've experienced throughout my day, or MCR-related things, in OTTNB, and I like reading other people's random thoughts sometimes

E.g., I liked your "I like coffee" and "ouch" messages, while people just rubber duck debugging off of TNB really is annoying

pxeger

13:56

@RadvylfPrograms That's not so much stream of consciousness to me

so I'm ok with that

Radvylf Programs

But yeah, back to OTTNB being too good at its job, I feel like TNB is good for some limited forms of off-topic discussion, and that it is a good thing for the room

"The Nineteenth Byte" is a reference to a place people go after golfing to hang out, not a golfing gym (if that's a thing). Discussing off-topic things, when that discussion is fun and welcoming (peanut butter not politics), on occasion builds a stronger community I think.

pxeger

peanut butter?

Radvylf Programs

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=peanut+butter&room=240

It's been a surprisingly frequent topic here :p

pxeger

Jan 13, 2016 at 4:27, by New Sandboxed Posts

I LIKE IT WHEN MY GRANDMA PUTS PEANUT BUTTER ON CARROT STICKS

Radvylf Programs

Like, the best times I've had in this room are ones where we've all been having fun discussing things together. Sometimes it's code-golf related, but quite often it isn't. The problem with the off-topic discussion we were having is that it was disruptive and fragmented; we weren't all talking together, we were screaming starbait into a void.

So I think maybe OTTNB should stick around, definitely, but it should be a room for the 90% of off-topic discussion. If, every couple of days, more than three or four people are discussing something off-topic but fun here, I think that'd be fine.

user

14:04

@RadvylfPrograms "Screaming Starbait into a Void" sounds like the name of a rock song lol

lyxal

Out of curiosity, which of these would y'all say are allowable and which should be in OTTNB:

https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=59752542#59752542
https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=59475824#59475824
https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=60929415#60929415
https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=59385828#59385828
https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=59763103#59763103
https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=58247428#58247428

user

The seagull thing should've been posted in OTTNB (if it existed then)

It was a random thing posted out of the blue that could've sparked a bunch of annoying noise

Radvylf Programs

I think the context matters a lot

pxeger

probably not
maybe
probably not
yes
probably
probably not

Radvylf Programs

If it spawns discussion that isn't annoying, I think it can stay

pxeger

14:06

^^^,^

user

If an on-topic discussion evolves into an off-topic discussion it's fine

But if you post blurry cat pictures out of nowhere it belongs in OTTNB

And it's better to post in OTTNB if you're unsure

Radvylf Programs

I think a big part of why TNB's been such an active room, despite us being a pretty small site, is our off-topic discussion. No reason OTTNB can't share the good ones.

pxeger

I think OTTNB should still be for discussion

which probably doesn't include blurry cat pics out of nowhere

Radvylf Programs

I like blurry cat pics though!

OTTNB should be a room for things that still have an actual purpose, and aren't meaningless noise, which don't belong here.

if people will get enjoyment out of your blurry cat pics, I say post 'em :p

user

So do I, but it's mildly annoying when someone posts stuff like that here simply because the only activity for a couple hours has been feeds (feeds are important too, you don't want to cover those up)

pxeger

14:09

Chatiquette does cover that

> Sometimes, there isn't anybody talking in chat. That's perfectly fine. Don't send messages just because the room is quiet.

We should enforce chatiquette more

user

How do you enforce it? Kicks? Stern warnings? Nukes?

Radvylf Programs

It's also tough to know when the post is just because nobody's talking, unless they specifically say so

user

Ah okay, warnings and kicks

pxeger

@user I would warn them, then start moving their messages to the bakery if they keep doing it

I don't think kicking them would ever be necessary

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, kicks would be reserved for violations of more serious things

Seggan

14:18

CMQ: should we turn this into a sequence challenge?

pxeger

I think it should be

But we don't really have the right to do that

Only OP can decide to materially change the rules on their own challenge

we just have to convince them

Seggan

then i should suggest it

pxeger

Go ahead

Jo King

they seem open to suggestions, they did take into account the output format fixes

mousetail

15:28

LDQ If you can have either only inclusive or exclusive < and > operators which to choose?

Radvylf Programs

That's a tough one

I'd probably go with exclusive

Although maybe you could do like, one inclusive and one exclusive?

Since NOTing one of them will be far shorter than trying to mimic inclusivity or exclusivity with floats (with ints it doesn't really matter much)

mousetail

Also <> will be the only ways to do type checking. There is no not operator

Null < numbers < tuples

Radvylf Programs

I think we need more information then

Is there an equality operator? A compare operator? Floats, or ints only?

What do the < and > return?

mousetail

Ints only, there is a equals operator

It works with ranges, so you can check 5..12 to check a value between 6 and 11

I think I answered my own question though, It's would be impossible to check if a value is a number with inclusive operators, since you can't write the lowest possible number

Now you can do N..()

If you want to check for tuples it's fine since you can do ()|()..

pxeger

15:51

@mousetail do you have the empty tuple?

If so, could you remove null and use () in its place?

mousetail

16:11

Hmm maybe, null does a lot of special things

Newly Featured Posts

16:32

20

Q: Make a list flat

Lists can contain lists and we have nested lists. But we don't like nested lists and want to flatten them. By flattening I mean create a list which does not contain any list, but elements of lists it contained before. I'll explain it more. Input An arbitrary size list which has the below properti...

code-golf ragged-list

Neil

17:43

(IMHO all this discussion about OTTNB is off-topic for this room...)

PyGamer0

18:10

@lyxal except the first one i think the others are fine

caird coinheringaahing

18:43

@lyxal Hot take: chat doesn't have a better control over noise. Rather, noise is just hidden away (in rooms like OTTNB), so that TNB seems cleaner. Having a thread to detail the memes isn't going to help people unfamiliar with TNB "culture", because those memes aren't referenced here anymore

It's actually one of the reasons I was opposed to OTTNB in the first place: we should be working to improve how people behave in this chat, such as actually enforcing the chatiquette, not squirreling it away into a room where we shunt "noisy" messages from here

Unrelated String

@Razetime it's not bad at them

can be a bit verbose

you either do something with superscripting ᶠ then taking the t at the end or doing the same with an unbound list constrained to be increasing

caird coinheringaahing

Currently, I think we're in a bit of a weird position with this room, where people want to discuss things they're interested in, but potentially hold off from doing so because they don't want to be declared "off-topic" and have to move. I've said for multiple conversations that weren't necessarily about code golf/the site, but were absolutely not noise, that they're fine in this room

Unrelated String

an example of the unbound list approach

caird coinheringaahing

Q: Can I post a challenge idea to the Sandbox where there isn't actually a task (yet)? E.g. I have an idea for a new style of challenge and I'd like to flesh that out in the Sandbox, but I don't actually know what the task for that style might be?

pxeger

I don't see why not

People post sandbox posts that are nowhere near finished all the time

caird coinheringaahing

18:56

Yeah, but they usually have some idea of the actual task :P

Basically, can I post a Sandbox proposal akin to "Challenge idea: do some task, but the shortest code wins. Feedback?" :P

pxeger

Well if the main part that needs discussing in the sandbox is the "style" of challenge, then that's the only bit you need to have some idea of

user

19:11

It's for a challenge, so it's complete on topic

And even if it's not for a challenge, if it involves code, it's not really off-topic

Adam

3https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/116426/my-source-is-in-order-is-yours Do you all think this is possible in Python?

Unrelated String

i'd be surprised if it's possible in any praclang

mousetail

Need a language with sufficiently short keywords

and no bracket matching

Unrelated String

and some way for said keywords to be separated by a wide variety of other things

caird coinheringaahing

It's impossible in Python

You don't have print, return or lambda, and you can't use def as that requires a space after it, so you have no valid way of outputting

mousetail

19:24

You could abuse unicode I guess

caird coinheringaahing

Oh right, normalisation

Unrelated String

oh yeah of course lmao

...does anything normalize to parentheses?

caird coinheringaahing

If you normalise this, it should work

Unrelated String

⁽ seems not to normalize to (

same goes for ₍

caird coinheringaahing

Thank god, I guess? :P

Unrelated String

19:28

about to try fullwidth

okay fullwidth also doesn't work

that's actually kinda fucked

ohhh, the normalization only applies to identifiers

and arbitrary unicode whitespace functioning as whitespace is just a separate mechanism

i.e., ˡᵃᵐᵇᵈᵃ is actually the hypothetical identifier lambda instead of the keyword

tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/7/v6AoM69EI7UsMUdD/…

pxeger

Wow that is especially cursed

caird coinheringaahing

Try it online!

Thomas Ward

@UnrelatedString wait what? o.O

Unrelated String

@cairdcoinheringaahing tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/6fpmCrEPM/…

caird coinheringaahing

Nonononono

Thomas Ward

19:42

why is this cursedness here

:|

:P

caird coinheringaahing

20:00

I miss Sandbox Posts :(

Thomas Ward

i miss coffee

the coffee shop is closed :\

Unrelated String

f

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

answer-chaining king-of-the-hill This is less of a challenge proposal, and more of a idea for how to mesh the two title tags. A series of targeted fights Consider a heads-up, 1v1 "game" between two king-of-the-hill style bots. However, unlike a general king-of-the-hill, where every bot plays agai...

what the actual hell

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