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12:08 AM
@thejonymyster um
wait why the fuck does knight have js type coercions but not arrays
how is that even easier to implement
unless it's just an issue of it's easier to not have errors
@thejonymyster now i want to think of a list operation that could reasonably be called suffocate lmao
pad with 0 on both sides? subtract length from each?
i think i literally did try to do that once too because i was trying to like
make a really edgy esolang
about lists too
it was weirdly familiar to hear about lol
is today lyal?
12:13 AM
i wont ramble on and on about a lang i never finished but i just want you to know that instead of parens/brackets of some sort it used \ matching with ;
also idk if its today
they tell me its tuesday but not in my timezone :|C
what is today's lyal?
If we exclude Jellyfish then F# is at the top with 5 votes
but we never actually did jellyfish
12:29 AM
OK, Jellyfish
Welcome to the twenty-third Learn You A Lang for Great Good! Today, we'll be learning jellyfish. During the event, feel free to post CMCs to practice jellyfish (JMCs), ask questions about the language, and so on.
Jellyfish is what you get when you combine the tacitness of Jelly with the 2D layout of ><>. Each operator takes inputs from below and to the right, and sends outputs up and to the left.
Jellyfish is a two-dimensional esoteric programming language inspired by J and written in Python 3. It was inspired by a challenge on PPCG. The name was suggested in PPCG chat as a combination of Jelly, a golfing language inspired by J, and Fish, a two-dimensional esoteric language. There's a syntax documentation file, a reference file, and an online interpreter, courtesy of Dennis from PPCG.
Jellyfish is a two-dimensional language, and the source code should be thought of as a 2D grid. Each position of the grid may contain an item, which is one of the following:

A value, which is further classified as one of the following:
A numeric literal, visually a horizontal run of digits. It is placed at the position of the leftmost digit.
A character literal, visually a single quote ' followed by said character. It is placed at the position of the quote.
A string literal, visually a horizontal run of characters surrounded by double quotes ". A closing quote is inferred at the end of a l
Most functions and operators have unary and binary forms. A function on the grid takes as its inputs the nearest values to its south and east; if both are present, the binary form is used, and if only one is present, the unary form is used. An operator also takes its inputs from the south and east, but they are functions instead of values. Only if a value is encountered instead of a function, it is used as the input to an operator. The operator evaluates its argument(s) and produces a new function, and this function is evaluated on the argument(s) of its east input (or, if the east input ha
1:00 AM
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: All Crossword Grids
JMC: Output all even integers between 0 and 20, inclusive.
Yep, that's what I got (though I used p instead of P).
Also 8 bytes: Try it online!
Can anyone help me make a Hello World program in Mario37?
Willing to give a bounty for non-trivial and short answers.
Interpreter is in Python
I'm willing to explain anything if you encounter some difficulties,
but everything should be clear given the source code
But I don't have time to do everything now
1:17 AM
@NobodyNeedsNames I'm going to focus on Jellyfish right now, sorry
JMC: Output a multiplication table for the numbers 1 to 9.
@DLosc 9 bytes BTW :o
@DLosc I've got 8 bytes for this one: Try it online!
JMC: Given a string containing lowercase letters and spaces, change the first letter of each run of letters to uppercase: "go hang a salami" -> "Go Hang A Salami"
1:42 AM
there's not even an uppercase builtin though
or split
it doesn't appear to even have chr/ord
how we supposed to do this lol
Yeah, it's gonna be tough. Chr is c, ord is n
Oh. I was using ctrl+f and couldn't find it lol
Maybe start with an easier one:
JMC: Given a string containing printable ASCII characters, convert all lowercase letters to uppercase while leaving other characters unchanged.
Oof, comparison functions don't vectorize by default
Gotta use `
I tried and it's cursed
What is, `?
It's working pretty well for me
@DLosc 29 bytes
Huh, c takes the absolute value of its argument before converting it to a character. Pretty nice
You do have to be careful that your operators aren't taking an extra function from a direction you weren't expecting. I got lucky there because one of my `s actually has two <s attached to it but it somehow still works.
Found that out when I tried to golf it by rearranging stuff.
2:13 AM
I have no idea what threading means in this context
It seems to mean vectorize, i.e. apply to elements of a list rather than the list itself.
ok then
I want to make it a definitely
time for more posts then'
2:50 AM
Why do you want to make so many posts that you have obviously made too many?
3:00 AM
just for fun
3:45 AM
If you enjoy making posts, then do it
4:04 AM
ok lol
4:14 AM
@DLosc 35 bytes
It seems like there might be a bug in the interpreter (or maybe it's just out of date): I can't get operators to work properly with a constant east argument, only with a constant south argument.
Make that 33 bytes--seems that doing math on characters auto-casts them to numbers.
Oh--I guess this algorithm assumes there won't be two spaces in a row.
Clearly never heard of lazy evaluation and arbitrary precision
Technically the number is limited by the size of your RAM even if you use arbitrary precision integers
so the statement is still true
5:11 AM
most, not all
5:31 AM
wait, is lyal 4hr before or 4hr later?
6, i mean
well, it runs for 24hr from the moment someone sends the welcome message
so it's been running for 5h now
5:47 AM
@lyxal it says int, so it's presumably referring to the C data type
Well yes, because the people who wrote the slides seems to have used languages with byte limited types back in their days of coding
6:03 AM
@Bubbler With arbitrary precision integers, repeatedly incrementing until hittting the memory limit would take way past the heat death of the universe
probably yes lol
Even doing it on an arduino nano or something with 2kb of RAM it'd still take past the heat death of the universe
6:28 AM
Wait a second, it just occurred to me-- why do they freeze inactive rooms?
(If the rooms are still around, and all the messages are still kept, what does it help? The point is they're inactive anyway. Does it really help the server to not handle a couple sparse messages once every blue moon in an otherwise quiet room?)
having a separate status of some sort for inactive rooms makes sense for being able to hide them in the ui but that is a good question as to why they actually freeze
i guess it might partly be to support the concept of temporary chat rooms for migrating discussions from comments and whatnot
then maybe from a moderation standpoint it's useful to not have rooms that are for all purposes dead need attention in case they get messages in need of attention? though that could also be solved by just notifying moderators about the first message in 14 days in a room
7:29 AM
@NoHaxJustRadvylf This may interest you: stanislas.blog/2021/08/firecracker
> Firecracker is written in Rust.
7:47 AM
hiya guys
8:15 AM
@DialFrost heyo
wow ppl on this gaining so much rep so fast damn
it's all about that rep grind :p
new pfp i see? :3
ai generated too!
honestly that's quite nice pfp!
8:20 AM
Made using DALLE-2 from OpenAI
imma steal it when you use another one
@DialFrost well then you'll have to be called Dialfroxt :p
@lyxal heh
wow my ELL rep twice my CCGC rep now
2 hours later…
10:40 AM
@lyxal no i dont :-)
2 hours later…
12:29 PM
Who runs the CGSE twitter?
12:55 PM
It's automated
1:36 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sam DeanFor Meta This challenge is currently just a very undeveloped idea I had today! So I'm just dumping it here to start getting feedback and somewhere to leave my own thoughts and notes as I start this. As this is in such a undeveloped form and I'm not sure when I'll have time to do it, other people ...

2:00 PM
@SandboxPosts that gave me a much sillier challenge idea
given a board state and a list of legal move, pick a move / order the moves from best to worst
and then score is based on both code golf and % move quality
some sort of test battery thing maybe
"how do you decide which moves are actually good" idfk stfu :P
Wouldn't that require a team of 100 top tier chess experts and 10,000,000 money to solve?
maybe only have endgame testcases? :Px2
ok wait that wouldnt be so bad
"solve an endgame" lol
idk im just trying to think of how to encourage funny algorithms
most recent sandbox is very "you(r code will) have to actually figure out how the game works"
Like the youtube video about the blind chess AI?
yes lol trying to recapture elo world
koths are so good
whoever thought of having them on the site thank you
KOTHs are great but the site format doesn't really work for them
I'm so sad riddles.io died, it was so much fun
2:07 PM
even sillier challenge idea: "host a koth"
you have to write a program that takes koth submissions and returns the winner :P
That would be interesting actually
Quite a simple challenge but still unique
how to format the input though
For most languages the input could just a function
However, it gets tricky for languages without the concept of a function or where functions can't be passed as arguments
2:24 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AdamAdd parentheses to Polish notation [Explanation of Polish notation] Given a string consisting of numbers, whitespace, +, -, *, and / consisting of an expression in Polish notation, add parentheses around each sub-expression, maintaining the whitespace. The parentheses should start before each ope...

2:44 PM
@mousetail well it could just be a challenge then lol
3:04 PM
site down?
Sometimes it works sometimes not
yeah thats what im getting too
I don't understand how stack goes down this much
3:53 PM
LDQ: are lowercase psi and uppercase psi visually distinct enough to use for separate but related commands?
Did you mean phi?
TIL there's a psi
Oh that's what it is
@thejonymyster no
The only real difference here is where it is in regards to vertical spacing
It could get a little bit confusing
4:11 PM
they look p different to me on my computer tbh but yea i agree it can be weird
sorry i rushed that message out, what i meant to say is "yeah i figured its pretty font dependent since it looks fairly distinct on my computer"
or somethig idfk
It looks close enough
too close
maybe even less distinct on my phone arguably
4:48 PM
@thejonymyster No
Please spare those of us with poor eyesight
In Vyxal it's even worse. We have ° and which look exactly the same in some fonts.
@user indeed, it's why i was asking lol :P
@thejonymyster umm basically "write a koth controller"?
yep :3 i just think itd be funny as a code golf lol
5:14 PM
@user wear glasses lol
i got glasses a month ago
@thejonymyster isnt psi pounds per square inch lol
5:27 PM
that is one thing that is called psi, yes
theres also peanuts per stale igloo
NP is being slow
6:11 PM
@PyGamer0 Glasses are for nerds 🤓🤓
I'm too cool for them
6:28 PM
@user im a nerd 🤓
Tsk tsk...
7:19 PM
@thejonymyster Yes (says the guy who taught Greek in seminary)
Lowercase psi should have the middle line sticking up above the other two, and/or uppercase psi should have a serif. As long as a font has one or the other of those distinctions, it's not just a matter of vertical positioning.
Now that I say that, Wikipedia's main font does not have either of those distinguishing marks... tsk
Courier New has serifs on the capital and a sticky-up line on the lowercase, which is nice.
I also appreciate the Mathematical Italic versions: 𝛹𝜓 (but those don't monospace, unfortunately)
7:51 PM
@DLosc quick regenerate q: is there any equivalent to .?
i.e. match any char
[^] ?
Idk if that works in DLosc's regex engine
And IIRC it's ASCII-only
ye i dont mind if its ascii only
oof inputs arent interpreted as regex?
@Seggan Why would they be?
i.e. $~1 [A-Z] equating to [A-Z]
its be useful sometimes
8:09 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DomenicoCryptic Multiplications Given two non-negative integers e.g. 27, 96 their multiplication expression would be 27 x 96 = 2592. If now each digits is replaced with a symbol, such that two digits are replaced with the same symbol if and only if they are equal we could get something like AB x CD = A...

@Seggan input is input, code is code, dont get it twisted
not in lisps :P
"Where code is data and data is code"
@Seggan [ -~] matches any printable ASCII character
@emanresuA The parser doesn't like that. I wanted to be able to write [^]] for "match anything but ]".
Jun 30 at 15:35, by DLosc
@DLosc Actually, fun golf trick for [ -~]:
Jun 30 at 15:35, by DLosc
8:35 PM
After playing with Jellyfish for a bit, my impression is that it's a neat idea, but it's missing several features that would make it much more usable. Also, the docs don't always match the behavior of the interpreter on TIO. (Some of that impression could be because I haven't fully understood something, to be sure.)

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