@RadvylfPrograms ok

Strictly speaking, no language is Turing Complete, as they all have finite memory

no implemented language

theoretical languages can be TC

Fun fact: the maximum array length in JS is approx. 2 ** 32

Python fun fact of the day #342: pattern matching binds variables, even when the pattern match fails! ato.pxeger.com/…

dzaima.github.io/paste#0S0lNUyjJjy/…

@cairdcoinheringaahing can we use the internet to make a language (implementation) tc

Ooh interesting

Maybe something like the harder drive?

@RadvylfPrograms Can you have an array of 2**32 arrays, each inner array of size 2 ** 32?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah

So unbounded storage space is probably possible in theory-crafted-JS

@RadvylfPrograms Fun fact: the fact is the same in Java

@RadvylfPrograms with closures you could already have that, right?

In what way?

if you have infinite stack space

nested closures can be used to implement infinite storage

@pxeger You could also just do eval("_" + x) and use infinitely many variables to store information I think

oh yeah that would probably be simpler

@RadvylfPrograms what does this do?

You'd do eval("_" + x + "=" + y) to store y at x, dictionary style, using variables like _0, _1, etc.

ahh i get it kind of maybe i think

instead of array[x] = y, you do eval("my_array_variable_" + x + "= y")

you just have infintely many differently-named variables instead of an actual array

strings have a length cap though

oh

yea i was like "how does this give you infinite variables" :P

and then i didnt say that i guess

Oh god the string length limit is based on the floating point safe integer limit

yeah

x.length needs to return something ;P

well are you really gonna need (2^16)^(2^53 - 1) variables?

...which implies that floats are or were used internally for indexing into them

@pxeger are you really gonna need infinite storage?

@pxeger If you want infinite storage then yes

That's after all the goal here :p

someone should coldpost this as a challenge

@RadvylfPrograms well, they're used to represent the result of .length, so what would be the length of a string that was longer than that?

"implement true infinite storage" :P

(do not do this)

@pxeger An approximation

Same as all other float stuff

And an int would be used internally

I think an int is definitely used internally

i wanna test out running a regex of strings at the max possible length but whenever i do anything with a string that big replit dies of cringe etc

you can still construct an infinitely-large data structure using closures like this:

function binary_tree() {
	let left, right;
	return [
		() => left,
		new => left = new,
		() => right,
		new => right = new,
	];
}

new's a keyword but yeah

oops

That's just a two element array though, I don't see how it changes much

you can put more two element arrays inside it

but I forgot that you can do that with normal arrays too

I was originally trying to construct a linked list using closures, recursively, to implement infinitely long arrays, but then I decided it would be simpler to use a binary tree, without realising that that no longer needed closures

@RadvylfPrograms Radvylf is serial killer confirmed??

@ais523 I tried to do something like this with HBL (with Thimble being the readable version), but it turned out that some golfs that were possible in the "compiled" version couldn't be represented in the readable version. I think I've seen a similar phenomenon mentioned in some of Neil's Charcoal answers.

ah i love the new github.dev

or at least i discovered it recently

@emanresuA you rang?

Maybe too late

darn it

well, there's always next time

it's only a LYAL away™

i just figured out why i kept getting you two mixed up

its ok take your time

fokin enter key being right next to apostrophe

well, it's not'n't funny no more

just use backtick

what no

I have implemented infinite storage in JS

class BigArray {
    ["#array"];
    ["#s_box"];
    ["#proxy"];

    constructor() {
        var array = [undefined, undefined];
        var s_box = {
            s: 0n
        };

        this["#array"] = array;
        this["#s_box"] = s_box;

        var proxy = new Proxy(this, {
            get(_this, indx) {
                if ((indx[0] == "-" ? indx.slice(1) : indx).match(/\D/) || (indx[0] == "-" ? indx.slice(1) : indx).startsWith("0") && indx != "0" || indx == "")
                    return _this[indx];

It works like a normal array too!

excuse me you have implemented what storage

var array = new BigArray(); array[0] = 1; console.log(array[0]);

lmao the class name good job

@Ginger Arbitrary-size arrays, theoretically

JS caps arrays at 2 ** 32 items, this removes those bounds

well I can just do that in python

in other news I have finished(?) my Project Gutenberg book-downloading software

home to this absolute fucking monstrosity of a bodge:

And the JS spec does not define a maximum size for bigints, it's up to implementations, so I believe it would truly be infinite

class SimpleThread(ThreadWithExc):
        def __init__(self, target, daemon = True, startOnInit = True, **args):
                super().__init__(target = target, daemon = daemon, **args)
                self.daemon = True
                if startOnInit:
                        self.start()
        def start(self):
                threading.Thread.start(self)
                while super().is_alive():
                        while Gtk.events_pending():
                                Gtk.main_iteration()

oh and that's not even the worst part:

gist.github.com/GingerIndustries/…

Although you'd need to use something like a .at to access bigger index elements, since after 10 ** 2 ** 53 or so elements, strings can no longer hold the index

@Ginger These code blocks take up a lot of room. Could you move them to a gist?

sure

Thanks!

If there's just one it's usually fine but this isn't directly CGCC related and there's multiple so it's a lot of clutter for little gain

only able to edit one of them sry

regardless, this has given me a very bad idea

a userscript that moves long code blocks into a gist automatically

Woo I got Github student

apparently my registration form was enough to convince them :)

so you're not a student?

i am

okay, good

registration form + the fact i have a school email

there are github agents everywhere

both with my name on it

i dont actually have any form of physical school id (just a number) so i just gave em my registration form and hoped for the best

ooh noice i get pro jetbrains products

yay and i get copilot back

github bropilot "just make it a 3d array bro itll be fine"

github nopilot "no user of mine is deploying production code with that formatting!"

still looking forward to golfpilot

Golfpilot: coming soon to your nearest CGCC

oh wow the student pack has soo many offers

its to get you hooked and make you keep paying lol

Fun fact: Both "Aaron" and "Miller" (with those capitalizations) are in the Jelly word list

Makes sense. Common first name, common last name.

If "Aaroneous" were in there, I'd be concerned.

Another fun fact: Ash's dictionary was based off of CGCC posts, so there's a good chance most of our usernames were in there

lol

fig dictionary is a random word frequency list i found on gh

if i ever made a dictionary like that itd be based on whatever thing i was obsessed with at the time

e.g. mario world level names, or like some specific list of items on wikipedia

depends what has my attention when i make it :P

"Netherrack"

yea i was literally just thinking "maybe minecraft words" :P

@RadvylfPrograms i almost just suggested doing this, not realizing that i had read it less than a minute ago

3rd case here :P

what should I choose

No

what happens if you dictionary compress a dictionary with itself

@thejonymyster It likely gets smaller

lol ok i guess i mean like

is it equivalent to "what do each of these words compress to individually" or does something happen different maybe :P idfk i think i need to read more about dict compression to know what im talking about

Any Rust users know how to iterate over a vector more than once without it yelling at me for some reason

I'm searching through code_page, a vector of chars, for each char in an input string, but for some reason that takes ownership of code_page so it doesn't work for the second character

Do I just have to iterate over a range instead, and index into the vector? Seems like there'd be a better way

Wait it wasn't a vector, figured out a better way to do it that works

olimar is still online, somehow

crazy I know

well, I'd say that SEChat is now stable enough for a release

@RadvylfPrograms youre writing a lang in rust?

No, just implementing a Jelly decompressor

does rust not have strings?

It has strings but it makes you choose to iterate over them either as bytes or chars for UTF-8 reasons

why not just iterate over a string in byte mode instead of a char vector

Because that has the exact same issue I was running into but also means I have to implement the UTF-8 handling by hand since SBCSs don't tend to be full ASCII

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think the explanation for how nonzero flags works in mode 2 is wrong in your jelly decompression challenge

flag_space = decompressed != ''
# ...
flag_space ^= flag != 0

I believe this would mean that if the flag is not 0, the behavior is the opposite of mode 1, but the explanation in the challenge seems to say the opposite

@forest Dang, now I'm kind of getting an urge to write something in C. Send help :P

I don't write things in C. I just modify things that are already written in C!

wow, this has 15 upvotes and downvotes

@DLosc Sorry, nothing much we can do for you. Try throwing yourself off a cliff?

do we have anything else that controversial :P also why are we killing dlosc

who's this we kemosabe

@thejonymyster To prevent C programming, apparently

a noble cause. Sorry dlosc

according to the SE Dev Survey 10.57% of respondants have ADHD

@forest That was my approach to PHP (back when I got paid to do so).

if you're not getting paid to do PHP you shouldn't do PHP (and even if you're getting paid you shouldn't either)

</opinion>

Facts.

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Voters&filter=all: How the hell has gnat voted on over a tenth of the posts on the site!?

votepilled

just wants to express their opinion as much as possible

black magic

todo: write bot that votes on every single post the instant it's made

don't

@pxeger And given they have only 101 rep, those are exclusively upvotes

@Ginger upvote or downvote? :P

flip a coin

@pxeger gnat just loves challenges

My Rust Jelly decompressor works!

yay

TIL in IDLE you can middle-click and drag to scroll super duper fast

@Ginger do it

i need extra rep

gnat has contributed enough upvotes to the site to account for 1.77% of all total reputation

CMQ: Would the present tense of "star" (as in to star a message) be "staring" or "starring"

@Ginger starring

thought so

stare -> staring

star -> starring

:61432731 who said that?

"stareeing"

@Ginger starring

definitely with some exceptions, generally verbs ending with a consonant double the consonant when you use the -ing form

well at least, for certain consonants

@Fatalize or @UnrelatedString Why does {3<.<7∧}ᶠ give just [4] instead of [4,5,6]?

is reducing by multiplication common enough for a builtin?

reduce by exponentation :P

i dont think ive seen a challenge that needed product of all of a thing but i guess just keep it in your notes if you get to the end of all of your ideas and still have slots

i just found such a natural way to do the linked list challenge in Fig: G0'i#_

i guess you can construct numbers from factors that way?

actually yea that seems important, reduce by multiplication gets my vote

#belikegnat VOTE!

[G]enerate using [0] as initial vector and ['] generator function [i]ndexing into the [#_] program input using the previous index (implicit)

im also rethinking halve: should it really do integer division?

also, i need ideas for string overloads

i have plenty of num overloads

@ais523 sounds a bit like verbose charcoal

i was kinda thinking on the topic as well, and decided that it will be either impossible or very nearly so to get past the fourth generation of golfing languages

we are reaching a critical mass of golfiness. all future languages will just be a single semicolon representing "read the dev's mind and run the correct program"

although IMO fractional byte langs are the future

and we might need to get off the stack paradigm

"Stack Paradigm" would be a great name for a band

@Seggan We're not on the stack paradigm, are we?

Jelly's still top dog

yeah but the next 2 are osabie and vyxal

this is your brain on stack paradigm

I'd put Husk before osabie, probably Vyxal too

Parents, talk to your kids about stack paradigm... before somebody else does.

Oh weird, osabie is doing better than Husk here

oh wow i should start using husk and steal its ideas

java is actually not too bad

better than cpp and go, at least

java is great

out of all the statically-typed languages it is my absolute favorite

^ (except i like kotlin better)

sacrilege

Wow, how is mathematica so low on that

are there a ton of verbose answers from years ago or something

nah mathematica is verbose in itself

common lisp lower than rust

devastating

why the zark am I having to compile cryptography

guys do you know a upper bound for the number of iterations for codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/248972/…

like the upper bound the the length of the output list

is it just the length of the input list or something like that?

CMM: should we update the elements for this question?

i.e. Ununoctium is now Oganesson

@Seggan prob not, would invalidate like all the answers

ya think i should repost?

the deed is done! sechat is now available on pypi

so any of you people can use it

@Seggan i feel like it probably wouldn't introduce too much more that would make it interesting as a new challenge

@Seggan nah, i dont think the difference is huge enough to warrant completely new strategies

would be interesting to see what people can come up with now that the Ununs are gone

@Ginger ...which other statically typed languages have you tried?

@Seggan wont make much of a difference to the core strategies i think

Because Java definitely isn't anywhere on my top 10 list even if it's not as terrible as some make it out to be

the answers are gonna do about the same things anyways

@user seriously? i love java

agree to disagree ig

I like it, but I'd be lying if I said it was my favorite

There's Kotlin, Scala, C#, Ocaml, Haskell, Husk, TypeScript

@AidenChow any thought on this?

I'm fond of Seed7: seed7.sourceforge.net

@user husk isnt a "real" language

by that logic vyxal is also statically typed

???

Husk literally can't even be parsed if the types aren't right

the behavior of vyxal is defined by the types of its inputs

its theoretically possible to figure out the type of the top of the stack anywhere in the program

It's really not

i managed to do it for myxal

I think you'd have to solve the haltin gproblem

correction: barring loops

Well we're talking about Vyxal, not Vyxal minus loops

ig ure right

@Seggan I agree that Husk isn't a practical language, but programs like this don't "compile", so I'd consider it statically typed

@user Wait no not the halting problem

and OLIMAR is back online using the sechat module from pip!

\o/

now, the next stage of my plan begins...

Is that your bot for running stuff?

yes

@Seggan That's just product of a list and yes

its almost the end of the month and there have only been 5 answers in juby, riiiiiiip

juby?

jruby

oh, lotm

ruby but java :P

HEY GUESS WHAT I DID IT

GINGERBOT LIVES!

HAHAHAAAAAAA

@RadvylfPrograms now you have to officially incorporate GB's resurrection into SE Nitro: The Comic

wait thats a thing

@Seggan gingerbot, radvylf, or SNTC?

SE Nitro is a subscription service Stack Exchange ran for a few months, then discontinued since it wasn't generating much revenue and it didn't fit well with the reputation system already in place. A while back I made a comic centered around the only person here who actually tried Nitro (mathcat), just for fun. It's unfinished still.

Pretty similar to the old GitHub Perks system, actually.

Wait I thought you guys just made up SE Nitro

we did

radvylf is joshin with ya

Oh ok

did they copy the word "nitro" from discord

yes

and GitHub Perks came from GrubHub Perks

maximum creativity moment

well that's myself and mathcat's fault

lol

Yeah I didn't come up with any of the original jokes I just got bored and made a really low quality comic out of them

no, it was high quality

good writing, good story, good main characters

[lo,hi) quality

everything you could want

@Ginger Of course you'd say the main characters are good, you were one :p

@Seggan gaming! Very good.

@RadvylfPrograms no comment :b

hopefully you'll resume writing it

I liked it a lot

(and not just because I was a main character)

@Ginger SNTC

and now here is a photo of my lego robot, if anyone wants it: i.sstatic.net/7Eb2Q.jpg

reminds me of that Pi robot i always wanted to make

reminds me of that time I got 3rd place in a robocup competition (that line following one) with a robot with only one colour sensor while everyone else had two colour sensors

imagine using two color sensors

what a square brain move

the opposite side of the robot has a USB hub with a WiFi dongle and the camera plugged into it

so you can so spy on people with it?

no

so I can remotely drive it jesus shit

what is wrong with you /s

@Ginger That's boring

I was going to suggest using it to spot people susceptible to rickrolls

And then move towards said people and rickroll them

Remote driving is like so boring

If you know you know

It's a skill you develop over time

well, time to make an ankle detector

"hey can you send me pictures of your feet? it's for science!"

@Ginger how to fix problem 1: make the camera tiltable

@Ginger see above

@Seggan can't, not enough space for motor