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3:00 PM
@RadvylfPrograms ok
 
Strictly speaking, no language is Turing Complete, as they all have finite memory
 
no implemented language
theoretical languages can be TC
 
Fun fact: the maximum array length in JS is approx. 2 ** 32
 
Python fun fact of the day #342: pattern matching binds variables, even when the pattern match fails! ato.pxeger.com/…
 
3:03 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing can we use the internet to make a language (implementation) tc
 
Ooh interesting
Maybe something like the harder drive?
 
@RadvylfPrograms Can you have an array of 2**32 arrays, each inner array of size 2 ** 32?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah
So unbounded storage space is probably possible in theory-crafted-JS
 
@RadvylfPrograms Fun fact: the fact is the same in Java
 
@RadvylfPrograms with closures you could already have that, right?
 
3:05 PM
In what way?
 
if you have infinite stack space
 
in Wellscripted, 9 secs ago, by PyGamer0
val to_poly = (c: List[Integer]) -> (x: Integer) -> c.map((i,n) -> x**(c.len()-n)*i).sum()
 
nested closures can be used to implement infinite storage
 
@pxeger You could also just do eval("_" + x) and use infinitely many variables to store information I think
 
oh yeah that would probably be simpler
 
3:07 PM
@RadvylfPrograms what does this do?
 
You'd do eval("_" + x + "=" + y) to store y at x, dictionary style, using variables like _0, _1, etc.
 
ahh i get it kind of maybe i think
 
instead of array[x] = y, you do eval("my_array_variable_" + x + "= y")
you just have infintely many differently-named variables instead of an actual array
 
strings have a length cap though
 
oh
 
3:11 PM
yea i was like "how does this give you infinite variables" :P
and then i didnt say that i guess
 
Oh god the string length limit is based on the floating point safe integer limit
 
yeah
x.length needs to return something ;P
 
well are you really gonna need (2^16)^(2^53 - 1) variables?
 
...which implies that floats are or were used internally for indexing into them
 
@pxeger are you really gonna need infinite storage?
 
3:12 PM
@pxeger If you want infinite storage then yes
That's after all the goal here :p
 
someone should coldpost this as a challenge
 
@RadvylfPrograms well, they're used to represent the result of .length, so what would be the length of a string that was longer than that?
 
"implement true infinite storage" :P
(do not do this)
 
@pxeger An approximation
Same as all other float stuff
And an int would be used internally
 
I think an int is definitely used internally
 
3:14 PM
i wanna test out running a regex of strings at the max possible length but whenever i do anything with a string that big replit dies of cringe etc
 
you can still construct an infinitely-large data structure using closures like this:
function binary_tree() {
	let left, right;
	return [
		() => left,
		new => left = new,
		() => right,
		new => right = new,
	];
}
 
new's a keyword but yeah
 
oops
 
That's just a two element array though, I don't see how it changes much
 
you can put more two element arrays inside it
but I forgot that you can do that with normal arrays too
I was originally trying to construct a linked list using closures, recursively, to implement infinitely long arrays, but then I decided it would be simpler to use a binary tree, without realising that that no longer needed closures
 
4:14 PM
@RadvylfPrograms Radvylf is serial killer confirmed??
@ais523 I tried to do something like this with HBL (with Thimble being the readable version), but it turned out that some golfs that were possible in the "compiled" version couldn't be represented in the readable version. I think I've seen a similar phenomenon mentioned in some of Neil's Charcoal answers.
 
4:32 PM
ah i love the new github.dev
or at least i discovered it recently
 
5:21 PM
0
Q: The Unaverageables

thejonymysterRelated. Given a list of 3 or more positive integers, remove every number X for which there is another number Y in the list and the average of X and Y is also in the list. In other words, if X, Y, and the average of X and Y are all in the input, neither X nor Y should not appear in the output. Th...

 
5:33 PM
@emanresuA you rang?
 
Maybe too late
 
darn it
well, there's always next time
it's only a LYAL awayâ„¢
 
i just figured out why i kept getting you two mixed up
its ok take your time
 
fokin enter key being right next to apostrophe
well, it's not'n't funny no more
 
just use backtick
 
5:38 PM
what no
 
I have implemented infinite storage in JS
class BigArray {
    ["#array"];
    ["#s_box"];
    ["#proxy"];

    constructor() {
        var array = [undefined, undefined];
        var s_box = {
            s: 0n
        };

        this["#array"] = array;
        this["#s_box"] = s_box;

        var proxy = new Proxy(this, {
            get(_this, indx) {
                if ((indx[0] == "-" ? indx.slice(1) : indx).match(/\D/) || (indx[0] == "-" ? indx.slice(1) : indx).startsWith("0") && indx != "0" || indx == "")
                    return _this[indx];
It works like a normal array too!
 
excuse me you have implemented what storage
 
var array = new BigArray(); array[0] = 1; console.log(array[0]);
 
lmao the class name good job
 
@Ginger Arbitrary-size arrays, theoretically
JS caps arrays at 2 ** 32 items, this removes those bounds
 
5:40 PM
well I can just do that in python
in other news I have finished(?) my Project Gutenberg book-downloading software
home to this absolute fucking monstrosity of a bodge:
 
And the JS spec does not define a maximum size for bigints, it's up to implementations, so I believe it would truly be infinite
 
class SimpleThread(ThreadWithExc):
        def __init__(self, target, daemon = True, startOnInit = True, **args):
                super().__init__(target = target, daemon = daemon, **args)
                self.daemon = True
                if startOnInit:
                        self.start()
        def start(self):
                threading.Thread.start(self)
                while super().is_alive():
                        while Gtk.events_pending():
                                Gtk.main_iteration()
oh and that's not even the worst part:
 
Although you'd need to use something like a .at to access bigger index elements, since after 10 ** 2 ** 53 or so elements, strings can no longer hold the index
@Ginger These code blocks take up a lot of room. Could you move them to a gist?
 
sure
 
Thanks!
If there's just one it's usually fine but this isn't directly CGCC related and there's multiple so it's a lot of clutter for little gain
 
5:43 PM
only able to edit one of them sry
regardless, this has given me a very bad idea
a userscript that moves long code blocks into a gist automatically
 
Woo I got Github student
apparently my registration form was enough to convince them :)
 
so you're not a student?
 
i am
 
okay, good
 
registration form + the fact i have a school email
 
5:52 PM
there are github agents everywhere
 
both with my name on it
i dont actually have any form of physical school id (just a number) so i just gave em my registration form and hoped for the best
ooh noice i get pro jetbrains products
yay and i get copilot back
 
github bropilot "just make it a 3d array bro itll be fine"
 
github nopilot "no user of mine is deploying production code with that formatting!"
 
still looking forward to golfpilot
 
Golfpilot: coming soon to your nearest CGCC
oh wow the student pack has soo many offers
its to get you hooked and make you keep paying lol
 
6:07 PM
Fun fact: Both "Aaron" and "Miller" (with those capitalizations) are in the Jelly word list
 
Makes sense. Common first name, common last name.
If "Aaroneous" were in there, I'd be concerned.
 
Another fun fact: Ash's dictionary was based off of CGCC posts, so there's a good chance most of our usernames were in there
 
lol
fig dictionary is a random word frequency list i found on gh
 
if i ever made a dictionary like that itd be based on whatever thing i was obsessed with at the time
e.g. mario world level names, or like some specific list of items on wikipedia
depends what has my attention when i make it :P
 
"Netherrack"
 
6:15 PM
yea i was literally just thinking "maybe minecraft words" :P
@RadvylfPrograms i almost just suggested doing this, not realizing that i had read it less than a minute ago
2 days ago, by Radvylf Programs
Well, it talks in about the same way some people do, either agreeing no matter what you said, disagreeing no matter what you said, or rewording exactly what you just said and acting like it's adding onto the conversation
3rd case here :P
 
6:30 PM
what should I choose
 
No
what happens if you dictionary compress a dictionary with itself
 
@thejonymyster It likely gets smaller
 
lol ok i guess i mean like
is it equivalent to "what do each of these words compress to individually" or does something happen different maybe :P idfk i think i need to read more about dict compression to know what im talking about
 
6:47 PM
Any Rust users know how to iterate over a vector more than once without it yelling at me for some reason
I'm searching through code_page, a vector of chars, for each char in an input string, but for some reason that takes ownership of code_page so it doesn't work for the second character
Do I just have to iterate over a range instead, and index into the vector? Seems like there'd be a better way
Wait it wasn't a vector, figured out a better way to do it that works
 
olimar is still online, somehow
crazy I know
well, I'd say that SEChat is now stable enough for a release
 
@RadvylfPrograms youre writing a lang in rust?
 
No, just implementing a Jelly decompressor
 
does rust not have strings?
 
It has strings but it makes you choose to iterate over them either as bytes or chars for UTF-8 reasons
 
7:04 PM
why not just iterate over a string in byte mode instead of a char vector
 
Because that has the exact same issue I was running into but also means I have to implement the UTF-8 handling by hand since SBCSs don't tend to be full ASCII
 
7:40 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I think the explanation for how nonzero flags works in mode 2 is wrong in your jelly decompression challenge
flag_space = decompressed != ''
# ...
flag_space ^= flag != 0
I believe this would mean that if the flag is not 0, the behavior is the opposite of mode 1, but the explanation in the challenge seems to say the opposite
 
@forest Dang, now I'm kind of getting an urge to write something in C. Send help :P
 
I don't write things in C. I just modify things that are already written in C!
 
wow, this has 15 upvotes and downvotes
 
@DLosc Sorry, nothing much we can do for you. Try throwing yourself off a cliff?
 
do we have anything else that controversial :P also why are we killing dlosc
 
7:44 PM
who's this we kemosabe
 
@thejonymyster To prevent C programming, apparently
 
a noble cause. Sorry dlosc
 
according to the SE Dev Survey 10.57% of respondants have ADHD
 
@forest That was my approach to PHP (back when I got paid to do so).
 
if you're not getting paid to do PHP you shouldn't do PHP (and even if you're getting paid you shouldn't either)
</opinion>
 
7:50 PM
Facts.
 
codegolf.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Voters&filter=all: How the hell has gnat voted on over a tenth of the posts on the site!?
 
votepilled
 
9 hours ago, by pxeger
unrestricted internet access and its consequences
 
just wants to express their opinion as much as possible
 
black magic
todo: write bot that votes on every single post the instant it's made
 
7:57 PM
don't
@pxeger And given they have only 101 rep, those are exclusively upvotes
 
@Ginger upvote or downvote? :P
 
flip a coin
 
@pxeger gnat just loves challenges
 
My Rust Jelly decompressor works!
 
yay
TIL in IDLE you can middle-click and drag to scroll super duper fast
 
8:03 PM
@Ginger do it
i need extra rep
 
CMQ: Would the present tense of "star" (as in to star a message) be "staring" or "starring"
 
starring
 
@Ginger starring
 
thought so
 
8:08 PM
stare -> staring
star -> starring
 
:61432731 who said that?
 
"stareeing"
 
@Ginger starring
 
definitely with some exceptions, generally verbs ending with a consonant double the consonant when you use the -ing form
well at least, for certain consonants
 
@Fatalize or @UnrelatedString Why does {3<.<7∧}ᶠ give just [4] instead of [4,5,6]?
 
8:23 PM
is reducing by multiplication common enough for a builtin?
 
reduce by exponentation :P
3
i dont think ive seen a challenge that needed product of all of a thing but i guess just keep it in your notes if you get to the end of all of your ideas and still have slots
 
i just found such a natural way to do the linked list challenge in Fig: G0'i#_
 
i guess you can construct numbers from factors that way?
actually yea that seems important, reduce by multiplication gets my vote
#belikegnat VOTE!
 
[G]enerate using [0] as initial vector and ['] generator function [i]ndexing into the [#_] program input using the previous index (implicit)
im also rethinking halve: should it really do integer division?
also, i need ideas for string overloads
i have plenty of num overloads
 
8:40 PM
@ais523 sounds a bit like verbose charcoal
 
i was kinda thinking on the topic as well, and decided that it will be either impossible or very nearly so to get past the fourth generation of golfing languages
 
we are reaching a critical mass of golfiness. all future languages will just be a single semicolon representing "read the dev's mind and run the correct program"
 
although IMO fractional byte langs are the future
and we might need to get off the stack paradigm
 
"Stack Paradigm" would be a great name for a band
 
@Seggan We're not on the stack paradigm, are we?
Jelly's still top dog
 
8:55 PM
yeah but the next 2 are osabie and vyxal
 
I'd put Husk before osabie, probably Vyxal too
 
Parents, talk to your kids about stack paradigm... before somebody else does.
 
Oh weird, osabie is doing better than Husk here
 
oh wow i should start using husk and steal its ideas
java is actually not too bad
better than cpp and go, at least
 
9:03 PM
java is great
out of all the statically-typed languages it is my absolute favorite
 
^ (except i like kotlin better)
 
sacrilege
 
Wow, how is mathematica so low on that
are there a ton of verbose answers from years ago or something
 
nah mathematica is verbose in itself
 
common lisp lower than rust
devastating
 
9:17 PM
why the zark am I having to compile cryptography
 
9:38 PM
guys do you know a upper bound for the number of iterations for codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/248972/…
like the upper bound the the length of the output list
is it just the length of the input list or something like that?
 
CMM: should we update the elements for this question?
i.e. Ununoctium is now Oganesson
 
@Seggan prob not, would invalidate like all the answers
 
ya think i should repost?
 
the deed is done! sechat is now available on pypi
so any of you people can use it
 
@Seggan i feel like it probably wouldn't introduce too much more that would make it interesting as a new challenge
 
9:42 PM
@Seggan nah, i dont think the difference is huge enough to warrant completely new strategies
 
would be interesting to see what people can come up with now that the Ununs are gone
 
@Ginger ...which other statically typed languages have you tried?
 
@Seggan wont make much of a difference to the core strategies i think
 
Because Java definitely isn't anywhere on my top 10 list even if it's not as terrible as some make it out to be
 
the answers are gonna do about the same things anyways
 
9:43 PM
@user seriously? i love java
 
agree to disagree ig
 
I like it, but I'd be lying if I said it was my favorite
There's Kotlin, Scala, C#, Ocaml, Haskell, Husk, TypeScript
 
@AidenChow any thought on this?
 
I'm fond of Seed7: seed7.sourceforge.net
 
@user husk isnt a "real" language
by that logic vyxal is also statically typed
 
9:46 PM
???
Husk literally can't even be parsed if the types aren't right
 
the behavior of vyxal is defined by the types of its inputs
its theoretically possible to figure out the type of the top of the stack anywhere in the program
 
It's really not
 
i managed to do it for myxal
 
I think you'd have to solve the haltin gproblem
 
correction: barring loops
 
9:49 PM
Well we're talking about Vyxal, not Vyxal minus loops
 
ig ure right
 
@Seggan I agree that Husk isn't a practical language, but programs like this don't "compile", so I'd consider it statically typed
@user Wait no not the halting problem
 
and OLIMAR is back online using the sechat module from pip!
 
\o/
 
now, the next stage of my plan begins...
 
9:53 PM
Is that your bot for running stuff?
 
yes

 The Firing Range

The best place to test and get feedback on your code! Send the...
 
@Seggan That's just product of a list and yes
 
 
1 hour later…
10:58 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

LaikoniParse this handy graph format code-golf parsing graph-theory There's a great number of ways to represent directed graphs like the following: Most representations are tailored towards being easy to work with, either for humans (like the picture above) or for computers (like an adjacency matrix re...

 
its almost the end of the month and there have only been 5 answers in juby, riiiiiiip
 
juby?
 
jruby
 
oh, lotm
 
ruby but java :P
 
11:04 PM
HEY GUESS WHAT I DID IT
GINGERBOT LIVES!
HAHAHAAAAAAA
@RadvylfPrograms now you have to officially incorporate GB's resurrection into SE Nitro: The Comic
 
wait thats a thing
 
11:27 PM
@Seggan gingerbot, radvylf, or SNTC?
 
SE Nitro is a subscription service Stack Exchange ran for a few months, then discontinued since it wasn't generating much revenue and it didn't fit well with the reputation system already in place. A while back I made a comic centered around the only person here who actually tried Nitro (mathcat), just for fun. It's unfinished still.
Pretty similar to the old GitHub Perks system, actually.
 
Wait I thought you guys just made up SE Nitro
 
we did
radvylf is joshin with ya
 
Oh ok
 
did they copy the word "nitro" from discord
 
11:33 PM
yes
and GitHub Perks came from GrubHub Perks
 
maximum creativity moment
 
well that's myself and mathcat's fault
 
lol
 
Yeah I didn't come up with any of the original jokes I just got bored and made a really low quality comic out of them
 
no, it was high quality
good writing, good story, good main characters
 
11:35 PM
[lo,hi) quality
 
everything you could want
 
@Ginger Of course you'd say the main characters are good, you were one :p
 
@Seggan gaming! Very good.
 
@RadvylfPrograms no comment :b
hopefully you'll resume writing it
I liked it a lot
(and not just because I was a main character)
 
@Ginger SNTC
 
11:38 PM
and now here is a photo of my lego robot, if anyone wants it: i.stack.imgur.com/7Eb2Q.jpg
 
reminds me of that Pi robot i always wanted to make
 
reminds me of that time I got 3rd place in a robocup competition (that line following one) with a robot with only one colour sensor while everyone else had two colour sensors
 
imagine using two color sensors
what a square brain move
the opposite side of the robot has a USB hub with a WiFi dongle and the camera plugged into it
 
so you can so spy on people with it?
 
no
 
11:44 PM
so I can remotely drive it jesus shit
what is wrong with you /s
 
@Ginger That's boring
I was going to suggest using it to spot people susceptible to rickrolls
And then move towards said people and rickroll them
Remote driving is like so boring
 
problem 1: camera is at ankle level not face level
problem 2: what the zark does a person susceptible to rickrolls look like the computer is literally worse than your pet gerbil's brain how the zark do you expect it to even know what a person is let alone a person susceptible to rickrolls
 
If you know you know
It's a skill you develop over time
 
well, time to make an ankle detector
"hey can you send me pictures of your feet? it's for science!"
 
 
11:49 PM
@Ginger how to fix problem 1: make the camera tiltable
 
@Ginger see above
 
@Seggan can't, not enough space for motor
 

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