The Nineteenth Byte

caird coinheringaahing

00:00

e.g. in jelly, you can usually use a segfault if you need to

Seggan

Updated

att

wouldn't transpose be better to have than zip?

Seggan

@att we can have both

att

zip is basically just a transpose though

Seggan

no because it pairs

you could always zip then flatten

att

00:04

I don't follow

Seggan

zipping 2 lists then flattening the result is a transpose

att

zip(a b c, d e f) is the same as transpose((a b c,d e f)), no?

Seggan

nop

zip = [[a,d],[b,e],[c,f]]

thejonymyster

what is zipping

att

I assume like in python

Seggan

00:06

yep

att

I don't see how it's different from transpose then

Seggan

transpose makes [a,d,b,e,c,f], zip makes [[a,d],[b,e],[c,f]]

att

that's not what a transpose is

Bubbler

no, transpose of [[a, b, c], [d, e, f]] is [[a, d], [b, e], [c, f]]

Seggan

its not?

Bubbler

00:09

you google "python transpose", what you get is zip(*mat)

so zip == transpose

Seggan

hmm

ok then

ill keep calling it zip tho

Unrelated String

@Seggan where are you getting this from lmao

thejonymyster

why is it called zip

Seggan

becuase vyxal

@UnrelatedString my brain

Unrelated String

think of the elements as the teeth on a zipper except also think of the teeth on a zipper as being paired instead of staggered

thejonymyster

00:12

i suppose but also thats really dumb :P

Aiden Chow

isnt transpose some matrix thingy, never knew it was a code term as well

Unrelated String

it's the same thing

emanresu A

@UnrelatedString That is... not a good metaphor

Bubbler

@AidenChow it's "using matrix in code" thingy :P

att

reason I suggested transpose over zip is your current zip only acts on 2 lists

though, that naming might lend itself to different conclusions in edge cases

Unrelated String

00:15

like what, ragged lists?

att

yeah

Nobody Needs Names

when will this be resolved?

15

Q: Repost "Word stays a word after taking away a letter"?

"Word stays a word after taking away a letter. Repeat" was a massively downvoted question, not because of challenge, but mainly because it was badly written. Personally, I think that the idea is great and it still has scope for many new answers, as it currently only has 4. I think that we should ...

caird coinheringaahing

It has moderate support, so, whenever mathcat gets around to doing so

Nobody Needs Names

can ijust repost it

or do we have to wait for @mathcat

Aiden Chow

why u want to repost it ?

caird coinheringaahing

00:30

Given that mathcat was the one who asked, the general "who gets to repost is?" goes Hubert Grzeskowiak (original poster), mathcat, then someone else

Strictly speaking, mathcat should ask Hubert if they'd like to repost it, but we generally let the person who asked on meta repost the challenge when the OP is no longer active

Aiden Chow

@cairdcoinheringaahing well they kinda active on SO it seems like

lyxal

@UnrelatedString polyglots

caird coinheringaahing

@AidenChow Then it might be worth asking them @mathcat

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Race some Robots, Parenthetical names

caird coinheringaahing

@NobodyNeedsNames I'll get around to adding a controller, namely, once it's finished, along with an example round. No need to leave reminders

Nobody Needs Names

OK...

@cairdcoinheringaahing The question is when will it be "finished"

caird coinheringaahing

As unhelpful as an answer as it is, it'll be finished when it's finished

Personally, I'm in no rush to finish it, so it'll be done during my free time in the future

Nobody Needs Names

01:16

ok. I'd guess 1yr.............................................

caird coinheringaahing

1 year? That's optimistic, I've had a KOTH in the Sandbox for 5 years now :P

Also, I chose to keep the board the same to avoid bots being overcomplicated. Already, I suspect they'll be super complex (or super simple), and changing the board will lead to even more complexity

Nobody Needs Names

@cairdcoinheringaahing which one

lyxal

@Seggan A and a could be python's all and any

Nobody Needs Names

@cairdcoinheringaahing ok

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing except if your language doesn't error on division by 0

thejonymyster

01:27

im all for a 1 byte exit

caird coinheringaahing

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Monopoly KoTH king-of-the-hill game python This is going to take me a while to finish and may never be fully done. Don't expect this to be posted anytime soon. However, this will be an ongoing project under development. Who hasn't heard of Monopoly? If not, don't worry, as I will expla...

Nobody Needs Names

@thejonymyster python: "

thejonymyster

that exits before the program starts though right :P

caird coinheringaahing

I should find the controller program for that tbh

thejonymyster

> because I'm British and proud of it!

downvoted /s

caird coinheringaahing

01:29

Yeah, not proud of it anymore :P

Got some rewriting to do tbh

Nobody Needs Names

@cairdcoinheringaahing is that wip or just dead...

caird coinheringaahing

More or less dead

thejonymyster

aw what cries i didnt notice hte date til now

i was excited LOL

caird coinheringaahing

It is 10 days away from being 5 years old lol

> Member for 5 years, 3 months

That's close to being one of the first Sandbox posts I ever made

Nobody Needs Names

> Over the winter, he swaps his Stack Exchange hat for a Santa hat.

what's his SE hat?

I just realized you have 200 answers @cairdcoinheringaahing

caird coinheringaahing

01:33

On meta? Oh cool

@NobodyNeedsNames I'd need to find it, I think I've saved it somewhere on my computer :P

Nobody Needs Names

@cairdcoinheringaahing haha

help me revise this

36

A: What are our specific abbreviations and terms?

See also Stack Exchange Glossary - Dictionary of Commonly-Used Terms. Abbreviations marked with a star (*) are chat specific. ATO: Attempt This Online; a website similiar to TIO where newer versions of languages are hosted. Created by pxeger. *The Bakery: The Nineteenth Bakery, the room where spa...

caird coinheringaahing

Trust me, I keep a close eye on edits to that :P

Nobody Needs Names

ttthhhaaannnkkk yyyooouuu

emanresu A

You know something's gone wrong when you're triply currying functions... in Python.

caird coinheringaahing

01:48

@emanresuA Only thing worse is quadrupled curried functions in Jelly :P

des54321

@emanresuA do I even want to know

emanresu A

Jelly doesn't even have first-class functions

Nobody Needs Names

02:04

haha

Bubbler

→ 4 slowpokes moved to Pokeball

Seggan

02:23

@emanresuA i never curried functions in python once

des54321

02:34

i cant even think of a sensible way to curry a function in python

like i suppose youd have to write something like return lambda a: blahblahblah but i cant think of any reason youd actually need to do that

Bubbler

You write something like that when you write a decorator

emanresu A

02:47

Yeah, that's what I'm doing

Bubbler

why would you need triply curried one though

emanresu A

Because I have a decorator that takes an argument and modifies the function's return value

So the signature's something like:

def decorator(config):
  def inner(func):
    def inner_inner(*args,**kwargs):

Bubbler

I mean it should be at most doubly curried, not triply

emanresu A

Oh, is that doubly curried? Okay.

emanresu A

03:07

Apr 5 at 9:52, by pxeger

hyper-neutrino has become the flag of San Marino

PyGamer0

03:52

@emanresuA kinda wish jelly (and flax) had that ..

@cairdcoinheringaahing flax, 3 bytes: 1²ⁿ

Sandbox Posts

04:20

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Remove the unaverageables Related. Given a list of 3 or more positive integers, remove every number X for which there is another number Y in the list and the average of X and Y is also in the list. The average of two numbers is their sum divided by two. Examples: input => output explanation [1, ...

thejonymyster

04:31

what would i search to find more answers in this language, \/\/>

Bubbler

searching for "/worm" (which is part of the lang's url) on SEDE might work

SE search is too weak for that

Jo King

i don't think there were that many answers in that lang, mostly just by the author

i think i might have posted one

Bubbler

that user has posted 4 \/\/> answers in total

thejonymyster

04:57

thank you, i find it very pleasing to look at :P

emanresu A

05:45

→ 3 gallons of lime juice moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Unrelated String

and i feel like that would be graded rather harshly as a bad-faith attempt to avoid answering the question :P

Nobody Needs Names

why is that homework help?

+ how can i know if my classmate (or anyone) registered?

@emanresuA why is it hw (i;m not saying it shouldn't be moved

i was just about to say someone move it actually

emanresu A

06:00

Any feedback?

Nobody Needs Names

um, no

Is this a pure set?

{{},{}}

@emanresuA .

att

no

that's not a set

Bubbler

"a set is an unordered group of unique elements", so no

Nobody Needs Names

yah

just to make sure

there is a definition for sets in math that allows dupes

Bubbler

that is called a multiset

Nobody Needs Names

06:10

oh goood thank yooooo

emanresu A

06:24

@emanresuA May as well post then. Tags?

des54321

@emanresuA I suppose specify whether you want that exact string representation, or what kinda leeway there is there

Nobody Needs Names

agree

Unrelated String

oh yeah that's a good idea

des54321

06:41

currently trying to figure out how to actually solve this problem

pxeger

@emanresuA code-golf sequence set-theory open-ended-function

maybe combinatorics?

des54321

i continually hate that {} in python is an empty dict and not an empty set

pxeger

It kinda makes sense given that dicts are more fundamental in Python

des54321

oh you cant even nest sets, there goes that whole train of ideas

pxeger

but I agree. basically sets should just have their own syntax that's completely separate

Unrelated String

06:48

@des54321 were you thinking of brute forcing over strings of {,} with eval as a validator

des54321

@UnrelatedString not even yet, im just trying to manually make the first however many terms of the sequence to see if i can find a related OEIS entry, and i wanted to use python to validate whether I had typed the same set twice

because {{{},{{}}},{{{}}}} and {{{},{{}}},{{}}} look a lot alike

Unrelated String

ah

...there's probably a lot of different ways to order an enumeration of all pure sets and i wouldn't expect a ton of them to be on oeis even if you do guess the encoding right so good luck

but also good idea

des54321

my thought is that we can group pure sets into groups of different "depths", and the number of sets on each depth might be a useful sequence

Unrelated String

i feel like the easiest approach would be to recur with some notion of "thickness"
like for every positive integer thickness you generate sets the elements of which have thicknesses that yeah that's sort of what i'm thinking of

though strict "depth" would not solve much

att

there's an easy approach you're both missing, I think

pxeger

06:53

I already have a pretty elegant answer

Unrelated String

nice

pxeger

@att if yours is the same as mine, let it be a good old-fashioned FGITW shootout

att

I've got a good idea but the implementations have all been ugly

:)

des54321

depths 1,2 and 3 are all trivial, as depth one is just {}, depth two is just {{}}, and depth 3 is just {{{}}} and {{{}},{}}, but im pretty sure there are 11 sets at depth 4

Unrelated String

lol

pxeger

06:55

@des54321 depth(n+1) = 2^(sum for i from 1 to n-1 of depth(i)) * depth(n)?

Unrelated String

^

at depth 4 you just have sets of all sets of depth 3 or lower, etc.

Bubbler

but you need to include at least one of previous depth

pxeger

yeah I just realised that

Bubbler

...and that's not how combinatorics works

des54321

yeah, any set of depth n has to include one set from depth n-1, and can contain any other sets of lower depth

pxeger

06:57

@Bubbler yeah I just realised that ;)

@pxeger depth(n+1) = 2^(sum for i from 1 to n-1 of depth(i)) * (2 ^ depth(n) - 1)

Bubbler

should be this

des54321

huh looks like i missed a set of depth 4, not surprised honestly

Bubbler

(any subset of all sets up to depth n-1) - (any subset of all sets up to depth n-2)

= (any subset of all sets up to depth n-1, containing at least one of depth n-1)

emanresu A

Posting in one moment

Bubbler

and its cumulative sum is nicely 2^(previous term)

New Posts

07:02

0

Q: Enumerate all pure sets

In set theory, a set is an unordered group of unique elements. A pure set is either the empty set \$\{\}\$ or a set containing only pure sets, like \$\{\{\},\{\{\}\}\}\$. Your challenge is to write a program that enumerates all pure sets, in some order of your choice. Standard sequence rules appl...

code-golf sequence combinatorics open-ended-function set-theory

att

yours is better

pxeger

yours is pretty neat too

emanresu A

That was some very quick FGITWing :P

att

I got hung up on finding the length for the list comp

pxeger

Yeah, you don't need to worry about taking too many bits, and the number of bits of x is always <= x

Wheat Wizard

08:31

@xnor If you want to fix the md in your bounty (there's an extra space) I can refund it for you. Or you can leave it whatever you prefer.

pxeger

08:43

According to my Marshal badge progress, I've raised 54 helpful flags today. According to codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/flag-summary/97857, all of them were comment flags. My daily limit for comment flags was 49 today. What happened?

Is this just eventual consistency being inconsistent?

emanresu A

shouldiblamecaching.com

@pxeger And/or your limit got upped by 5 because you raised 50 more helpful flags

Idk if it's smart enough to do that

pxeger

Can the limit get upped during the course of the day?

I thought it only happened once per day, at the start of the day

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's a plausible explanation

Why the heck is there a TI-BASIC FANDOM???

pxeger

Fandom is just used as a place for communities to set up their own wikis

emanresu A

I guess :P

pxeger

09:15

@emanresuA I found this: meta.stackexchange.com/a/83712

> If flag weight goes up during the UTC day such that max increases, you will receive the additional flags before the increase to max at midnight UTC.

flag weight no longer exists, but I suspect the idea of getting an increase during the day may still be around

emanresu A

Makes sense ish

Wheat Wizard

10:26

@pxeger I thought that once a flag is marked as helpful it no longer counts towards your limit for the day. That would at least make sense.

pxeger

Maybe it's that

but it would have to still count flags that are automatically marked helpful, because most of my flags were those

Wheat Wizard

Hm.

pxeger

I mean that does kinda make sense, because they're marked helpful, but mods can still go back and invalidate them (right?)

Jun 14 at 9:47, by pxeger

@forest I guess mods can probably see those flags though, to check they were indeed valid?

Wheat Wizard

If I can I don't know how.

pxeger

Can't you see my flag history?

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/flag-summary/97857?

Wheat Wizard

10:30

Yes that I can do.

But I cannot generally see what flags have been recently accepted / rejected.

pxeger

oh, you can see them, but you can't retroactively invalidate them?

Wheat Wizard

Let me see.

Nope.

I can't even undelete comments.

pxeger

So if I write a genuinely helpful comment, but it contains the word "thanks", then a malicious user could unanimously delete it??

Wheat Wizard

Maybe. It might also require that the comment be under a certain length.

pxeger

Yes, I've seen that, and I've been trying to work out what that length limit is

I think it might be 50 chars

Wheat Wizard

10:39

But yeah it seems if you do write a genuinely helpful comment containing "thanks" anyone can delete it and there's nothing a mod can do.

pxeger

I guess it's not too hard to just rewrite your comment

PyGamer0

its also not hard to reflag it

pxeger

you could rewrite it without using the word "thanks"

or put a zwsp in the middle of the word or something

but that would require knowledge of how the comment was deleted

in fact, you're unlikely to even notice your comment being deleted at all

PyGamer0

that's true

PyGamer0

10:57

i got an idea that will work but idk how to implement it

ngn/k in paste

emanresu A

11:12

Probably doable

The hard part is understanding ngn's code

PyGamer0

yeah

so i gave up cause i can't do this on a phone

will try later

@emanresuA it will be epic if it works

emanresu A

It's a matter of exposing the correct memory and interfaces to k.wasm

Which is easier said than done, thanks to ngn's programming style

The world only needs one Arthur Whitney

pxeger

11:27

Why does SE keep going down for about 5 seconds at a time, every now and then?

PyGamer0

11:58

@emanresuA CORS

emanresu A

Frick.

mathcat

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think they‘re still active on SO

I might contact them

PyGamer0

@emanresuA wait ... i think i can do oK

mathcat

I can‘t now, though

PyGamer0

@emanresuA i need to know the interface for oK

dzaima.github.io/paste#0M9Q2BAA#RY5NC4MwEETv/…

^ incomplete

but should work

emanresu A

12:11

Cool, o/

TKirishima

12:36

I know how to optimize an answer on a problem by 1 byte. Should I create a new answer or leave a comment under the answer ?

pxeger

Typical etiquette is to leave a comment

TKirishima

OK !

pxeger

but if it's a particularly novel or non-obvious improvement, you could post your own answer

TKirishima

It's kind of obvious. The answer is just old and with ruby 2.7 you can use _1 you can win one char

pxeger

Oh yeah, then you'd leave a comment

although often people aren't that interested if it uses a language feature that wasn't around when the answer was originally posted

TKirishima

12:42

Thank's :)!

pxeger

@TKirishima regarding: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/248352/…

TKirishima

I was talking of another thing

pxeger

I annoyingly mistyped my comment

I meant: minimise the number of non- alphabetic characters

TKirishima

Ohhh yeah I didn't saw that it was the response with the less :O

pxeger

sorry, my mistake

TKirishima

12:50

I thought it was the opposite

Well at least ... I done a golfing answer..

PyGamer0

@emanresuA got it working

thejonymyster

all in all that /[a-z]/ challenge seems to have gone over well, though im sad i didnt get to see too many keyword heavy answers y_y maybe allowing whitespace not to be counted would have helped? alas

pxeger

That Perl "dialect" which only allows keywords could be interesting, yeah

Seggan

mathcat must have gotten so much rep

thejonymyster

i suppose the challenge is too simple to have any answers that would need too many keywords anyway

PyGamer0

13:02

@WezloOvOo here is a better js ide :p

thejonymyster

hm, i wonder if "does this ascii drawing contain this shape" has been done yet

i.e. input a single shape made of ascii and a bigger ascii art with more shapes, and then decide if the shape appears in the art

pxeger

@thejonymyster title it "Is This Loss?"

thejonymyster

omfg yes

pxeger

~~.:|:;~~

thejonymyster

love to see it

but uhh

i guess one question before i sandbox; would it be obviously better one way or the other if
A) the shape had to not be connected to any other shape
B) the shape could be connected to any other shape

A) is more restrictive, idk if it matters though

if its not an obvious difference in question quality then ill just go ahead n start

pxeger

13:08

I think A is probably unnecessarily complex

B makes a nice simple challenge allowing potentially really interesting answers

although it might be a duplicate, I'd worry

thejonymyster

nod (^_^)b ill scour the site a bit

pxeger

check pattern-matching for possible pointers

thejonymyster

aha, i didnt know about htat tag ty

the but is it art challenge seems to be a much harder version of B)

but id say that itd be different enough, still looking though

pxeger

That's definitely different enough

thejonymyster

this one is "does it have this one specific shape in a grid of different symbols"

wow i was expecting there to be way more challenges in this tag

pxeger

13:23

Do we have a challenge for "output truthy if the input is the same as your source code"?

Yes: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/11370

thejonymyster

lol this challenge

alright im convinced its not a dupe for now :P

oh god defining this rigorously and concisely seems hard X_X

pxeger

say "spaces match any character; non-spaces only match themselves"

presuming that's the idea you're going for

thejonymyster

i may be too stupid to write this :P if youre itching to do it, this is your greenlight, but if not itll probably take me a bit

pxeger

I'm not itching

thejonymyster

i was thinking of having input only be the two distinct symbols

e.g. space and #

(and newlines of course but we dont talk about those)

lol the regex approach makes me think you could get some mileage out of using . as your blank character

should i roll with the assumption that the pattern shape is all one contiguous shape?

i.e. could never be # #

Seggan

13:44

@lyxal mind if i turn your sum of consecutive ints cmc into an actual challenge

lyxal

sure

not that I remember which CMC that was

Seggan

ty

lyxal

and also it's probably AI generated anyway, so it's not exactly "mine" to control lol

pxeger

Jun 10 at 14:38, by lyxal

AICMC: Given a number N, return the total ways to write it as sum of consecutive numbers.

Seggan

@lyxal the one where i gave a 3 byte solution against your 9 bytes :P

hyper-neutrino

13:47

including the trivial N = N?

and also do negative numbers count too

Seggan

1) yes
2) no

thejonymyster

i say N=N should be optional, if you want my opinion

pxeger

and I guess also not including 0?

thejonymyster

which everyone always always does

pxeger

because otherwise anything starting with 1 will have a duplicate, but with 0 prepended

thejonymyster

13:52

yea agree, no 0

Seggan

yeah, thats what i assumed in the cmc too

@thejonymyster it actually made my code shorter

thejonymyster

i mean optional to the solver yeah

cause you never know

"its golfier if i count them" vs "its golfier if i dont count them"

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Is This Loss? Given two shapes A and B in ASCII-art, determine if the A appears within B. (more spec to come? i'm not sure how to phrase this) Examples Shape B (will remain the same for the next few examples): # # # # # # # ########### # # # # # # # ### Shape(s) A (separated by ne...

pxeger

@thejonymyster Bearing in mind the title joke, I think this assumption should be removed

I can't see many answers relying on it, and it makes for better clickbait

thejonymyster

14:08

Not sure I understand the title/clickbait factor in that assumption

pxeger

the Loss image can be made better

thejonymyster

oh lolol

the shapes in the contiguous loss are way more interesting though :P

pxeger

 #       #
 #       #  #

 #  #    #
 #  #    # ###

thejonymyster

and a shape perhaps appearing therein would be

#       #  #

#  #    #

right?

pxeger

I was thinking the other way around

Given a shape, does Loss appear within it?

thejonymyster

14:11

oh, loss specifically?

if its loss specifically then its a dupe of the U bend imo :P

pxeger

well no, but the example you'd give would have Loss as the input to find, not the input to have a pattern found within

thejonymyster

well yea

the order doesnt matter

but uh hm

pxeger

Order does matter

thejonymyster

in that case, the other input would be

pxeger

## is inside ####, but #### is not in ##

thejonymyster

14:12

no im like

words hard

#  #    #  #
#  #    #  #

#  #    # ###
#  #    # ###

so this might be input 2

i understand what youre getting at now

that is better clickbait

pxeger

Do not underestimate the HNQ effect ;)

thejonymyster

lol no of course i respect the drip i just didnt understand your plan

pxeger

drip?

thejonymyster

very good idea, will implement later (im at work and my supervisor is showing up in any minute lolol)

pxeger

dang zoomers

thejonymyster

14:15

i think i used the wrong buzzword there anyway :P

lyxal

@pxeger you clearly don't own an air fryer if you don't have drip

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