The Nineteenth Byte

Interesting, I think what I ended up with is basically that, just with matchs instead of if lets and an uglier way of concatting the strings

@RadvylfPrograms that olisomething what's the link?

or none...

It's a chat room, probably ping Ginger for a link

@Ginger

Ginger

12:14 AM

whomst has awaken'd the ancient one

me

Ginger

what can I help ya with

@RadvylfPrograms .

...a link to what?

oli...var?

12:16 AM

oh, OLIMAR

yes

Ginger

here's its chatroom

ok thanks...

how does it work?

@Ginger I'd claim responsibility but alas, I didn't do it

@RadvylfPrograms Generally you can write rust without much hassle once you get the sense of ownership and borrowing (when you want to own or borrow data). And you just live with a bit of verbosity

12:27 AM

Or, you can use Vyxal - terse, elegant and readable

9

haha

That's actually a great marketing strategy, wait for people to decide to learn Rust/C++/assembly/some other annoying or difficult to learn language, and then while their guard is down hit them with Vyxal ads

Then I should make a Rust port of Vyxal and say "Even Vyxal is written in Rust" :P

go ahead...

Might be able to get it working in rustpython :P

12:34 AM

Ryxal, coming soon to a CGCC near you!

12:46 AM

I made yet another esolang:

0

A: Add two numbers

Positionally, 33 bytes / v + , ; < / Try It Online! Positionally is a language I made where there are only two commands - space and non-space. The instruction run depends on the position of the IP. The characters in the above could be any character aside from spaces. Position...

12:57 AM

Looks very limited unless the grid of commands repeats infinitely in both dimensions

It does

oh

thats cool omg

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Find the winning Mormon Bridge card

@emanresuA what about newlines though

1:00 AM

shh

We don't talk about newlines

Feels like arrows can be removed in favor of mirrors if placed well, not sure how though

:P thats what i thought lol

i was gonna say "you should have given it a 2 bit encoding" til i saw how strings worked, sad

anyway cool lang

presumably the ip starts at the top left by default right

well thats new

Spacing bug

spacing?

js ==

5

des54321

@thejonymyster i think i saw that the IP actually starts at the @ sign near the middle right

1:08 AM

@des54321 Only if there is one

thats what i saw too but the program linked had none yeah

Otherwise it starts in the corner

des54321

ah of course, makes sense

I should write better docs

eh its fine

1:09 AM

@Bubbler Yeah, making control flow usable took a while to figure out

@thejonymyster Between the votes, answers, views, etc.

@cairdcoinheringaahing i was referring to the emoji getting gungled

that stack of horizontal lines is supposed to be a flower emote of some kind

That's just cause the emoji is new

Supposed to be a lotus flower

well usually i get a like, empty box, or a [?], or perhaps even a [numbers]

ive never gotten "here are some lines :)"

Attempting to write Hello, World! in Positionally

1:12 AM

shouldnt be hard just do string mode

Looks like indexing into the command position template thingy is modular so you can make programs larger than 8x8?

yea which jokes aside should be mentioned in the docs yea

if you don't star this message, then you will die... in about 70 years...

I'll die in 100 years or so anyway :P

3

yahhhh

Advertisement 1 Advertisement 2 Advertisement 3 and a secret message

hi @lyxal

1:26 AM

Indeed

→ 15 plagiarised messages moved to Off-Topic TNB

3

challenge idea: given a queen's position on an mxn board, if the queens vision was represented in ascii with -/\|., output how many unique symbols are in the 8x8 region encompassing each board square; example:

\..|../ 2232322
.\.|./. 2233322
..\|/.. 3356533
---Q--- 2365632
../|\.. 3356533
./.|.\. 2233322
/..|..\ 2232322
...|... 2222222
...|... 1122211

2:02 AM

good...

does anyone know how to find the distance between two strings of unequal length?

hi @lyxal again

@NobodyNeedsNames distance defined how?

idk

then no

In computational linguistics and computer science, edit distance is a way of quantifying how dissimilar two strings (e.g., words) are to one another by counting the minimum number of operations required to transform one string into the other. Edit distances find applications in natural language processing, where automatic spelling correction can determine candidate corrections for a misspelled word by selecting words from a dictionary that have a low distance to the word in question. In bioinformatics, it can be used to quantify the similarity of DNA sequences, which can be viewed as strings of...

edit distance has at least five different definitions

all of them then

2:10 AM

some of them have standard algorithms but some others are hard

and why do i have to "be at least 18 years old" to nominate for diamond mod?

@Bubbler ok

though the one you most likely want is levenshtein distance

ok

@NobodyNeedsNames Because mods have access to Personally Identifiable Information (PII), like email addresses, so for legal reasons SE needs to restrict it to 18-and-older

It's a relatively recent, and controversial change

@Bubbler oh wow triangle inequality

2:14 AM

@RadvylfPrograms when

@RadvylfPrograms ok, i'll wait for a god damn inactive 5 years ;-)

@NobodyNeedsNames 1.5 years ago

um ok

not to rant but i cant believe nobody wants 100 rep to answer 99 bottles in jelly :P

how hard can it be lol

is it just that nobodys jellying anymore

Had a language idea a long time ago. reviving it now. taking notes / designing. dropping it as a teaser :). here ↓

ermineii.github.io/…

@RadvylfPrograms what if i SAY i am 18 yrs old just asking

2:23 AM

@NobodyNeedsNames Then you are breaking the law, and also once it's figured out you create a big inconvenience for everyone

@WezloOvOo since everything is 4 characters long can you make it so they dont need to be newline separated

@thejonymyster it's not that it's hard it's just tedious

@WezloOvOo (I stopped because sleep is a thing so I also won't hear your enraged screaming)

:o huh

and i think ro's don't have to be 18 yrs old

2:24 AM

@thejonymyster yeah was planning to. so newlines might just be ignored

@NobodyNeedsNames Nope, I'm 16 and emanresu's 14 IIRC

I want to make a BASIC-like shell thingy to go with it

@RadvylfPrograms why not just ro's <18yrs old can't see the podjioewhfjbjbksakjniowne

@lyxal this is a surprising revelation to me :O is it something about the question itself?

Because we don't have access to any PII

2:25 AM

@WezloOvOo You got me

why not just i mean mods <18yrs old can;t see the pii

@RadvylfPrograms @emanresuA confirm this ;-)

@thejonymyster personally, I think that it's just too long for a golfing language

@NobodyNeedsNames That's what like everyone asked when they made the change, still no clue

@WezloOvOo Seems interesting, and kinda BASIC-y

yah

maybe because they can surpass the not seeing?

idk''

The #/$ reminds me of BASIC's sigils sort of

2:26 AM

@lyxal ? isnt the point of the golfing language to make the answer shorter? lol

@thejonymyster Like it's fine for a practical language, but for a golfing language it just becomes a little bit too long

why make PII available in the 1st place?

@WezloOvOo oh wait final spoilers its going to be somewhat terse, but not elegant or readable

I'm sure a lot of it's important for mods to be able to do their jobs as exception handlers

@thejonymyster I more mean time taken to write it and golf it. It's not just a quick thing you write, but it doesn't have the same satisfaction as a really hard challenge

2:27 AM

now i am printing a very long Wikipedia about something distance

aw so sad I want to discuss and start a langdesign discussion hopefully with food arguments on top (gn o/)

@lyxal ahh

It's good for learning a language but for golfing purposes, imo it doesn't feel worth it.

thats surprising to me i guess, that itd be long to solve :o id figure thered be an easy enough way to do it the canonical way lol

@lyxal thats exactly why im putting a bounty for it actually i wanna study it LOL

i'm currently engaging in a conversation with electionbot from

2022 Data Science Stack Exchange Mode…

Open discussion for datascience.stackexchange.com/election/3

2:29 AM

@thejonymyster Well there's nothing really mathematical about it - not much room for clever golfs

thats why i figured itd be fairly easy to solve fairly optimally

theres not much to it

i just want to get a feel for how it would even be done in jelly

It's not hard it's more that people probably just can't be bothered

not even for free rep apparently :P

jelly golfers r too good for 100 rep XD

and i am still printing that wikipedia page on the something distance

@NobodyNeedsNames there are good reasons for the age limits too - they don't want youngsters to let the deleted Jelly answers impede their brain development :P

2:35 AM

go to bed!

3:05 AM

→ 103 messages moved to Off-Topic TNB

I have three messages on my screen right now lol

Hello, World!

1

A: "Hello, World!"

Positionally, 394 bytes / > \ - > "!dlrow!" v v < v \ \ ^ 1 ~ ^ / < \ $ > ",olleH " . . . . . . . $ . $ . $ . $ . $ . . v ...

@Hello,World! Took you long enough lol

→ 1 message moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

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@emanresuA 4th generation sillylang

-4th generation more like

3:10 AM

I've had this idea for a while, but considering making an ArnoldC-oid around MCR lyrics

why cant the full hello world be in one string?

yah

@thejonymyster Because you can't push spaces in strings.

good

@RadvylfPrograms best person based lang idea i ever came up with was someone was trying to do an eminem lang and i suggested the comment be "But the words won't come out"

3:11 AM

make a brainfuck equivalent

@emanresuA ah, right

@thejonymyster That's a pretty good one lol

sadly idk enough mcr to make a comment joke for that

or enough c to make any other joke

arnoldjs when

arnode

oml im a fake fan i was gonna suggest a reference to i write sins not tragedies. ಠ_ಠ

in The Nineteenth Bakery, Jun 11 at 2:59, by emanresu A

← 18 messages moved from Vyxal

At least I didn't accidentally move it to DBA.SE

is positionally done btw

3:16 AM

I'm never gonna live that down am I lol

or are you gonna mess wiht it more

@thejonymyster yes i think............?????????????????????????????????/

how on earth would you know :P

so i said i thin

k

god positionally would be a great lang for like a cnr

like one of those guess the language ones lol

3:27 AM

yah

PyGamer0

3:44 AM

@RadvylfPrograms lmao

tomorrow is LDW :D

so hype wish i could quit my jobb and design progframming languages

6

PyGamer0

yay progframming languages :P

progrocking language

hyper-neutrino

4:04 AM

→ 23 messages moved to hyper-neutrino's trash-can

does this site have a dark mode :P

4:20 AM

I thought they all did.

@thejonymyster honestly same for me

@thejonymyster Pretty much, aside from bugfixes

@thejonymyster Partially designed it with that in mind

nice i had a feeling >:)

@emanresuA also while youre here how does the headass interpreter take input :P i havent been able to figure it out

@forest what do i press to enable it god its so bright

dunno

I don't use it.

orz

4:26 AM

@thejonymyster There's an input command?

Uh, one moment

:P lolol

i had a feeling it wasnt implemented since its not relevant to the challenge lol

feel free to not implement it, im just glad to know im not crazy

Wait nvm I did do input

Let me figure out how now

tyty

Q: Find the Circle-Tangent Polynomials

Try putting stuff in the input box?

New Posts

0

Introduction A circle-tangent polynomial is a polynomial of degree \$N\ge3\$ or above that is tangent to the unit circle from inside at all of its N-1 intersection points. The two tails that exits the circle are considered tangent at their intersection points from inside as well. You may consider...

4:31 AM

@emanresuA delimited how?

newlines

awesome it seems to work :D

thank you very munch

@emanresuA what?

4:46 AM

→ 28 messages rm -rf'd to Off-Topic TNB

4:57 AM

can anyone explain my question inside there thanks...

Jo King

ginger is not currently in this room

I know

5:21 AM

weird question: if a regex only solution to this is possible, would "matches/doesnt match" be a valid output? pros: its binary; cons: its not technically a decision problem

e.g. "matches if output would be 1, does not match if output would be 0"

That probably

oh its totally doable too i figured it out lol

Nice!

just gotta figure out how to submit it :P

actually i wanna try and golf it more >:) discipline

5:51 AM

I think I have 15

where the input format is like (0, 00 01 00) -> 0000100

spoiler (hover to view)

im on mobile i cant hover :P im gonna submit mine anyway, but question do i count the slashes

the like

external most ones

It's not part of regex I think

right true

ok submitting, feel free to outgolf me

submitted, 32. 15 is exciting!

just saw -80 in my notifs and i was like oh god what did i do wrong then i remembered i put up a bounty lol

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

6:06 AM

@RadvylfPrograms nope

You never will

Sandbox Posts

0

The prime frog 🐸 -- Integrated. From the original question, we make the following changes: The "prime frog" is a strange animal that jumps between integers*, until it arrives on 3 or 19... Your program should accept an integer n as input and output the result of the below algorithm (3 or 19). ...

appreciate beautifying

→ 3 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Ginger is asleep anyway

Ginger no reply for a few hours

Not for at least 5-6 hours

well, yesterday I only slept for 5-6 hours

but I see your point

ok

hyper-neutrino

6:26 AM

i already superpinged him when he's online he'll see it

Oh about his bot?

Yeah he needs to turn off the ability to execute arbitrary commands.

hyper-neutrino

yes, more specifically i superpinged both ginger and radvylf to see how much damage the system wipe might've caused and fix any issues asap

6:43 AM

On most modern systems... nothing. It'd just give you an error and say you need to add --no-preserve-root.

→ 26 more messages rm -rf'dto Off-Topic TNB

Why only part of them

Because there's not a clear start and ed

Oh, didn't even notice we weren't in off-topic.

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

um ok

Let's go there

Sandbox Posts

6:44 AM

0

Interpret BigTalk Talk is a language which takes a single bit of input and has four commands: 00 If the accumulator is 0, set the accumulator to 0. 01 If the accumulator is 0, set the accumulator to 1. 10 If the accumulator is 1, set the accumulator to 0. 11 If the accumulator is 1, set the accu...

New Posts

0

Q: Iteratively delete a list

Say I have a ragged list, like: [ [1, 2], [3, [4, 5] ] ] And I want to iterate over each item and delete it one-by-one. However, I don't know the structure of the list. So, I have to iterate over the list, with the following algorithm: Look at the first item of the list. If it's a li...

code-golf ragged-list

I think this isn't off topic, so

what's a superping
and what's rto

nvm

7:10 AM

What is the "sizes of the lists resulting from applying this" — Nobody Needs Names 59 secs ago

@NewPosts i thought i had something clever in jelly to exploit a consistent value of 0 but turns out molding a ragged list to itself isn't necessarily a no-op 🙃

Hello @mathcat

mathcat

Hi

@NobodyNeedsNames if you actually can't interpret that try looking at the test cases

1. i can't figure out
2. it's better with an explanation
3. if I have to guess, then I don't think it's good enough...

@UnrelatedString .

@mathcat Hi

mathcat

7:19 AM

@NobodyNeedsNames The number of elements left in the list after the deleting process

um oh ok

oh i was like

i missed the first 2 cuz there's some text in between

7:41 AM

@thejonymyster print Hello World.

8:26 AM

@UnrelatedString ... wait what

hell if i know

also the logic i was trying to use that within is also broken for completely different and no less inscrutable reasons

One does not simply debug Jelly

@emanresuA the molded list isn't flattened, so the deeper elements are getting filled with themselves and each other

8:53 AM

Oh gosh that's cursed

Does it work if you just copy the list?

9:05 AM

In python, is there a fast way to convert an arbitrary string to a non negative integer?

hash()?

Thanks! How many bits does hash give you in the range?

I think it gives 64bit signed integer, if you really need nonnegative then maybe abs(hash(x))

It can never give -1, though

Ah I do need non negative. I guess abs will create collisions

9:10 AM

You will have collisions anyway, because it's a finite-output hash function

Oh ok

why can’t it give -1?

it's used as an internal error value

Silly coding :)

it saves memory ;)

and it's not like it ever really matters that hash(-1) == hash(-2)

I see this alternative

import hashlib
print(int.from_bytes(hashlib.sha256(b"H").digest()[:4], 'little')) # 32-bit int
print(int.from_bytes(hashlib.sha256(b"H").digest()[:8], 'little')) # 64-bit int

Not really sure what the advantage is though

9:13 AM

that's not gonna be very fast

Ah

I should time it

the advantage is that it's cryptographically secure

SHA512 will be slightly faster on 64-bit hardware.

SHA256 is (paradoxically) slower.

@forest that is paradoxical!

And using SHA-512/256 (SHA-512 truncated to 256 bits and using a different IV) is faster than SHA-256 for the same reason.

9:16 AM

If the integer range being unbounded is ok, int.from_bytes(bytes(x),'little') is certainly fast, gives zero collision, and guaranteed to be nonnegative if the string is ascii

@Bubbler that’s pretty amazing

it gives collisions for strings with null bytes at the end

@Bubbler it's guaranteed to be nonnegative no matter what; int.from_bytes doesn't use two's complement

I am only doing this to make a set of strings smaller and faster to work with

I just figured, yeah

Maybe I should convert them to bytes?

9:19 AM

that won't make much of a difference

faster to work with for what kind of operations?

Strings have a large overhead in memory in python

@Bubbler intersection and union

I only need the sizes of the intersections and unions

Not sure if unbounded int is a good solution in that case

It doesn’t matter if the answer is very slightly wrong

assigning each string a sequential ID number and looking them up afterwards might be better

9:22 AM

@Bubbler yes. I was wondering if just converting the strings to bytes (not to ints) might save the memory overhead. I don’t know what the cost is for bytes

@pxeger I don’t even need to look up afterwards :)

>>> import sys
>>> sys.getsizeof(b"hello")
38
>>> sys.getsizeof("hello")
54
>>> sys.getsizeof("hello" * 1000)
5049
>>> sys.getsizeof(b"hello" * 1000)
5033

that's not a very significant overhead

Hashing is the right way to go I think

especially since you said slight error is ok

It’s the 38 vs 54 which is the issue. My strings are not very long

@pxeger what

@Bubbler Python's builtin set intersection and union already use hashing

9:24 AM

@Bubbler I think I will do that. ints are 24 bytes, right?

@emanresuA what?

@pxeger but if you store entire string in sets, Python has to do string equality check after seeing that the hashes are equal

So the output of hash() will take 24 bytes?

Hashing strings into ints first removes the second step

@pxeger Oh i see... I forgot bytestrings were (like) char arrays

9:26 AM

Is there a hashable representation of a 64 bit int that takes 64 bits in python?

@emanresuA I don't think they're called bytestrings anymore, they're simply bytes

Or less than 24 bytes in any case

@graffe that's not possible without going down to the C level

@pxeger interesting. Python has all these nooks and crannies so I was wondering

Python has all of them to hide the low level details from the user

If you care about them, Python is no longer the language you want

9:30 AM

True

The future is Julia :)

I'd say Rust :)

What about docs.python.org/3/library/array.html ?

@Bubbler rust looks too hard!

@graffe those are stored in 64 bits only when they're in the array

and it doesn't seem hashable

Maybe there is cython solution….?

9:35 AM

Why not just write it in C

>>> import array
>>> a = array.array("H")
>>> a.extend([1234] * 10000)
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getsizeof(a)
20250
>>> a.extend([1234] * 10000)
>>> sys.getsizeof(a)
42092
>>> (42092 - 20250) // 10000
2
>>> sys.getsizeof(a[0])
28

They're stored as plain unsigned shorts inside the array, but when you access them, Python has to convert them back to Python ints which still take 28 bytes

@pxeger I really don’t want to translate all the code into C.

How many items are you comparing, by the way?

@graffe You could just write a small extension module to accelerate one part of the code