The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu B

14:03

@thejonymyster ok

graffe

14:32

puzzle time: A two-digit number ‘ ab’ is multiplied by its reverse ‘ba ’. The ones (units) and tens digits of the four-digit answer are both 0.

What is the value of the smallest such two-digit number ‘ab ’?

lyxal

are a and b non-zero?

graffe

a great question.. is it possible if they are?

Radvylf Programs

25

graffe

I don't think 00 counts as a two digit number

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal I'm not giving you money

graffe

14:34

@RadvylfPrograms how did you do it?

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Maximal number of moves needed by a knight Given an \$N × N\$ board, what is a minimum number of moves needed by a knight to reach every square (in a fixed position)? In other words, the A232007 sequence from OEIS. Input/Output can be taken in any resonable format, taking the size of the board a...

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing dang it

can't blame me for trying

Radvylf Programs

Aside from 52 (its flipped variant) it's also the only one

graffe

it is!

now I want to know how you solved it so quickly

Radvylf Programs

@graffe Two lines of JS:

for (var i = 0; i < 100; i++)
    console.log(i.toString().padStart(2, 0) + ": " + (i * (i % 10 * 10 + (i / 10 | 0))));

graffe

14:35

aha :)

smart

caird coinheringaahing

> 5.72 Gamings for $9.24 (BTC)

What the shit is "$9.24 (BTC)"?

lyxal

that's a very reasonable offer you know.

plus, that offer wasn't for you.

it was for @OldSandboxPosts

Ginger

$9.24 worth of Bitcoin?

Radvylf Programs

^

caird coinheringaahing

Sorry, lemme just ask them if they want to buy some gamings

lyxal

14:36

That's the context btw

Radvylf Programs

Since BTC isn't constant relative to USD, it makes sense to specify the amount of BTC in USD or another currency if you want it to be relative to that

caird coinheringaahing

They said, and I quote, "@lyxal I'm not giving you money" :P

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing dang it.

can't blame me for trying

graffe

the speed of puzzle solving here is amazing

can anyone write code to solve this?

Radvylf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well of course, for tax reasons you can't give the money to lyxal. You give it to L'yxal, who lives in Switzerland.

The Gamings will arrive via airdrop

New Posts

14:37

0

Q: Make the list Fibonacci-like

Related, but not dupe. Challenge A list of integer \$a\$1, \$a\$2, \$a\$3, ..., \$a\$n (\$ n ≥ 1 \$) is Fibonacci-like if \$a\$i \$=\$ \$a\$i - 1 \$+\$ \$a\$i - 2 for every \$i ≥ 2\$. Note that every list that contains only 1 or 2 integers are Fibonacci-like. For example, \$[1]\$, \$[6, 9]\$, \$...

Radvylf Programs

So you'll need to clear any barbed wire off your roof and add L'yxal's triplane's SHA-256 checksum to your flak cannon's whitelist

graffe

on an analogue clock at midday, if you swap the hour and minute hand you get the same time. How many distinct times have this property? Let's assume that any time is the same as the same time exactly 12 hours later so midday and midnight are not distinct.

Radvylf Programs

Three

Wezl 'l o - o l'

@RadvylfPrograms wait a second while I show this sentence to a non-TNBer and see what they think of it

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms no :)

Radvylf Programs

14:39

That's just when the minute and hour hand are at the same point which is a pretty well known problem

Ginger

I have a hexaplane

Radvylf Programs

I thought three was the answer but it could be something else

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms I believe that isn't the solution here

justANewb stands with Ukraine

144?

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Sorry, the barded wire stays ~~on during sex~~

Radvylf Programs

14:40

Oh it's 11: 12:00, 1:05, 2:10, 3:15, 4:20, 5:25, 6:30, 7:35, 8:40, 9:45, and 10:50

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms and more still....

@justANewbstandswithUkraine ooh.. not right but good. How did you get that?

Radvylf Programs

@graffe Really?

caird coinheringaahing

@graffe Depends on the interval the clock uses

justANewb stands with Ukraine

My 1+ year old memory watching a video with the exact same topic lol

graffe

@cairdcoinheringaahing what do you mean?

pxeger

14:42

@cairdcoinheringaahing barded wire?

caird coinheringaahing

e.g. some clocks have constantly moving hands, instead of discrete hands

justANewb stands with Ukraine

132?

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Wire that sings

pxeger

Do you really want Cacofonix there?

graffe

@justANewbstandswithUkraine further away :)

@cairdcoinheringaahing assume continuous motion of the hands

Radvylf Programs

14:43

It can't be more than 13, right?

user

@pxeger It's obviously a typo

Wire with lots of facial hair

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms Wait no

@RadvylfPrograms Oh this answer is stupid google has failed me

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms it can

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms Tf kind of clock only ticks the hour hand forward in giant jumps

Wezl 'l o - o l'

@user it's a typo for balded wire, which is wire that has no hair

pxeger

14:44

@user Yes I can tell it was a typo, but it afforded the opportunity to make more terrible jokes, so I had to seize it

graffe

ah oops

Radvylf Programs

Or bartered wire, which was obtained via negotiations with the local copper thief

graffe

ahem

error in my question :(

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Yeah, it's not "How many times are the minute hand and hour hand at the same value", which is 12 I believe

Ginger

my clock has three rings of RGB LEDs that spin around super fast and turn the lights on at the correct point to indicate the current time

graffe

14:44

@RadvylfPrograms sorry

Radvylf Programs

About what

user

@pxeger I could tell you could tell it was a typo, but I took the opportunity to interpret it as a more terrible joke instead

@Ginger How does that work?

Ginger

@user It's a joke, sadly

I'd love that to be an actual product tho

user

Oh

pxeger

I actually do have a device like that

it's a fan with lights on the blade, and you can set it to display any message you like

I don't think it can act as a clock though

Radvylf Programs

14:47

My grandfather collects clocks

graffe

CMC on an analogue clock at midday, if you swap the hour and minute hand you still get valid time. In general the time may or may not be valid depending on when it is. How many distinct times have the property that the time is still valid when you swap the hour and minute hand? Let's assume that any time is the same as the same time exactly 12 hours later so midday and midnight are not distinct.

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms That must be a time-consuming hobby

4

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms He has something like 200 of them IIRC

PyGamer0

wow

pxeger

Does he have a grandfather clock?

user

14:47

@pxeger Ooh, so it can display messages while spinning?

Radvylf Programs

I've heard bad things about daylight savings time over there though

Ginger

tfw you start writing a function and then realize halfway through that you already wrote the exact same function

user

That is really cool

pxeger

@user yes, through persistence of vision

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger Three, actually

user

14:47

I wonder how you would even do the math for that

graffe

so at 9 o'clock if you swap the hour and minute hand you don't get a valid time, for example

user

@pxeger Oh so only when stationary

Radvylf Programs

@user Seems like it'd probably just be basic trig stuff

pxeger

@user just a bit of trigonometry, I imagine

Radvylf Programs

The whole thing rotates at a constant speed, so to determine what color an LED with distance r from the center should be at time tm or angle \theta, you just need to use polar coordinates on the image

pxeger

14:49

@user no, it changes which of the blade's lights are on many times a second, so that the frequency of light switches aligns with the fan blade's rotation, and because of persistence of vision, your eyes perceive it as a continuous image, even though it's spinning

user

Ah, nice

PyGamer0

in Lyxal's Quest for Tacit, Dec 3, 2020 at 2:59, by Lyxal

Feel free to join me on my journey

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms although I'm not sure how it determines its speed precisely enough for the effect to work

Wezl 'l o - o l'

@pxeger my friend has one of those (from an event) that displays a set message. How do you customize it?

Radvylf Programs

Maybe a stepper motor?

user

14:50

@pxeger It can't be that hard to put an encoder in

Radvylf Programs

Or just a sensor that tells it where it is, no need to even bother with speed

pxeger

@Wezl'lo-ol' it has a USB connection, and you use some dodgy archaic software to upload a new message to it

@RadvylfPrograms I don't think that would be able to run fast enough (and would probably be too expensive)

@RadvylfPrograms yeah it probably just has some kind of read switch which detects every time the blade passes a certain point in its rotation, and guesses the speed based on that

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger Yeah, true

user

@pxeger This person seems to just use timing, no encoders or anything (code)

pxeger

with nothing to keep it in check, surely that would slip out of calibration eventually

Seggan

15:09

i just realized that the halting problem is decidable for 2 subsets of programs

1. programs that dont have backward jumps

2. programs where all jump conditions are known statically and dont change

the first subset of programs can never loop, so unless the program is infinite it will halt

while for the second subset if all jumps are known beforehand, you can determine is they will come back to the same spot

Radvylf Programs

Equivalently, what you've done is find two types of non-turing-complete languages

Seggan

unfortunately, almost all practical programs fall into neither camp

Ginger

whoops nvm

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms lol true

but the first set can be turing complete

given an infinite tape, no?

Radvylf Programs

No, since it can't do arbitrary computation

Something really simple would be an infinite loop, but there's also other useful stuff you won't be able to do

Seggan

15:23

ah

Radvylf Programs

And of course a really simple, but in this case kind of circular, way to show that it's turing incomplete is by showing that you can solve the halting problem for it

thejonymyster

lol

does anyone know enough ><> to run this by me? i get the gist but as a non ><> user, it sort of escapes me

user

@Seggan I mean, you can certainly write a ton of practical programs that are not Turing complete

pxeger

@user is this answer well-explained enough for the bonus on this bounty?

user

Reading through it now, looks very impressive

Zsh just ignores any invalid command?

pxeger

15:28

yup

user

That's kinda awful for practical stuff but I guess it works out great here

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms true

Ginger

okay, now it works

if you want push notifications as well you can go to the settings page (from the profile dropdown)

thejonymyster

@pxeger i mean it seems pretty straightforward

user

Yeah I'd say it's well-explained enough, give me a minute to award the bounty

thejonymyster

15:29

(in the genius way)

pxeger

@user you can disable that with the -e option, which most people do

Ginger

further discussion in the room please

thejonymyster

oh i didnt see the @, i thought you were asking everyone lol

pxeger

see my showcase answer for zsh for more stuff about golfing with errors in zsh

user

@pxeger That is somewhat more comforting

Ginger

15:31

does anyone have any idea why MSEdge is trying to fetch() over HTTP?

pxeger

zsh ignores most errors by default, even some syntax errors lol

Seggan

k moved my opinions for MYAL into an answer, might have to edit your guys's answers a bit

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger Try it on a site that you know doesn't do any redirecting or downgrading, maybe

Ginger

It's my site

Radvylf Programs

Perhaps replit's trying to return an error, and it downgrades to HTTP when doing so

@Ginger Oh

Ginger

15:38

for some reason flask is doing a downgrade

but get this

it doesn't do it on Chrome

Radvylf Programs

Try <meta http-equiv="Content-Security-Policy" content="upgrade-insecure-requests"> maybe? No idea if that'll work

Ginger

ok

Radvylf Programs

Are you using a self-signed cert or do you have HTTPS set up through a reverse proxy

Could be the reverse proxy acting up

Ginger

replit handles https for me

added meta tag, let's see if it works

Radvylf Programs

Which means there's some logic you don't control, and that's possibly what's doing a downgrade

So it's not really "your site" for these purposes, since you don't know or control what it's doing

Ginger

15:42

well, I'm getting a different error so that means something worked

Radvylf Programs

Progress maybe

Or things are worse

Ginger

it looks like my server is returning an error page and the JSONDecoder doesn't like it

it's a 404, fixing now

okay, now it's adding a trailing slash to the address

did this fix work?

yes it did!

that meta tag fixed it lol

thank you!

DLosc

@Seggan Suggested acronym: Designing Languages On SE Chat =P

7

thejonymyster

That Helpful Event Just On Nineteenthbyte You Make Your Silly Tarpits Everyone Rejoice

Seggan

@DLosc done. event starting tomorrow

Ginger

15:49

@Seggan better: Go Invent New Golflangs usERs d:

thejonymyster

actually, if it were golflang specific, "ING" would be fun

cause then we could say we're INGing

Radvylf Programs

Really, All Designing Various languages is so You can distract yourself from the fact that we will alL die someday, For real

DLosc

More seriously, something like "Language Design Workshop" wouldn't be a clever acronym, but it would look very nice on the Upcoming Events list.

Seggan

^

thejonymyster

concur

Seggan

15:50

why do we even need an acronym tbh

Radvylf Programs

I agree

thejonymyster

@Seggan *to be honest

Seggan

thanks

thejonymyster

event without cool acronym

Ginger

LEt's Make A Language

Newly Featured Posts

15:52

19

Q: Run the Nth characters to get N

Write the shortest program possible such that when you combine the first character and every Nth character after it into a new program, the output is N. This must work for N = 1, 2, ..., 16. Another way to say it is, if you remove all the characters from your program except for the first one and ...

code-golf source-layout

Ginger

LEMAL is at least pronouncable

Seggan

"Event for Language Design"

Radvylf Programs

I like the "Workshop" bit from DLosc's idea

Ginger

ooh I know

Seggan

go ahead and answer it :)

DLosc

15:53

I just did

PyGamer0

@DLosc amazing idea

oh imo the room should probably be here in TNB

not a separate room

we dont have a separate room for LYAL

Seggan

^

Ginger

^

Seggan

i like mathcats idea of a website where we can host a ping list

Ginger

I can do that

Seggan

15:59

have to have some form of auth tho

Ginger

again, can do

Radvylf Programs

So what's up with this hyperping thing

Ginger

(I'll use SE auth don't worry)

Radvylf Programs

It seems kinda pointless to me ngl

Seggan

39 secs ago, by Seggan

i like mathcats idea of a website where we can host a ping list

PyGamer0

15:59

and during the event should we select a language to discuss (like LYAL) or just just randoml talk about l
ang design

Seggan

@Ginger done you need to register for that tho?

Ginger

if we do it I'll make it

Radvylf Programs

You mean like...the event registration page?

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms agreed

Radvylf Programs

What would these pings be for

And I strongly disagree with having some external site being a part of the event

PyGamer0

16:00

^

Ginger

okay, never mind then

call me if you need a site tho d:

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms to people interested?

Seggan

hmm tbh i am starting to wonder what pings are for

Radvylf Programs

@PyGamer0 People who are interested would be in the room already

Seggan

@PyGamer0 that was the intent

Radvylf Programs

16:01

You already get pings before the event starts from SE

Seggan

true

Radvylf Programs

No need for ones what, per language? Per feedback request? When would these be sent?

Seggan

but this is also probably gonna be a 24 hour event

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms exactly

Radvylf Programs

And you can always just go back in the transcripts to read about design choices made when you're busy

PyGamer0

16:02

@Seggan agreed with this and ^

so will the language be selected like LYAL

Radvylf Programs

I'll check if 24-hour events can even be scheduled

Seggan

@PyGamer0 i dont think we should do that

PyGamer0

why?

Seggan

one person having a monopoly on language design?

how often can you "re-register"?

Feeds

Radvylf Programs has added an event to this room's schedule.

Radvylf Programs has removed an event from this room's schedule.

Radvylf Programs

16:04

Yep, 24h events work

Can't believe nobody registered for "stare blankly at Radvylf for 24 hours straight"

PyGamer0

lol

and tomorrow is LYAL

which language for LYAL tomorrow?

Radvylf Programs

Should I go ahead and delete BMG from the event list? Since this is replacing it?

Seggan

ig you can

Radvylf Programs

I vote no rotation

Since it's 24 hours

PyGamer0

^

Seggan

16:06

^ yeah that was the argument breaking it

Radvylf Programs

Maybe we can do it offset 12 hours from LYAL

PyGamer0

@Seggan huh ok

@RadvylfPrograms yeah better for me :P

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms same day?

Radvylf Programs

No, on the days BMG currently is

Every 2 weeks, on non-LYAL-weeks

Seggan

nah id like this to be weekly

Ginger

16:07

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sort my Cups I have a set of colored plastic cups. They come in four colors: green, yellow, pink, and blue. When I put them on my shelf, I like to stack them in a certain pattern. Your job is, given a list of any number of four distinct values (to represent the four cup colors), output a visual r...

feedback?

PyGamer0

imo
people will lose interest...

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan That's too often, both because it would conflict with LYAL and because it would get annoying/die out

DLosc

^

Seggan

/shrug

ig

Radvylf Programs

With two weeks, you have time to actually work on some new languages, whereas a week from now changes are I won't be doing anything new, so we'd only have one or two languages per event

You get a higher density of stuff to do when it's less often

PyGamer0

16:09

true

Ginger

LAMAL: Let'sa Make A Language

it's mirrorable too

Seggan

i think language design workshop works

PyGamer0

i like @DLosc's one

~~oh and i will force yall to give feedback on flax~~

Ginger

Language Design Workshop seems good

PyGamer0

ok then what else?

i guess thats it?

Seggan

16:13

are yall fine about the format

PyGamer0

i think its fine

thejonymyster

whats the format again? im under the impression that its just going to be a time for us to discuss the langs were working on and basically have it be the chat topic

was it in the post am i dumb

Seggan

basically yes

thejonymyster

thats what i was expecting/hoping yea

Ginger

idea: we could have a competition to design the most optimized artificial stone and call it Coade Golf

Seggan

16:15

stone?

Ginger

it's a joke, you see,

PyGamer0

and its time for me to go

o/

Seggan

ah

Radvylf Programs

0

A: Chat Event Refinement: Make You a Lang for Great Good

No hyperpings These wouldn't be very useful, since: If you're already in the chat room, you don't need a ping If you're awake/online but not in chat, CGCC pings you on its own when the event is starting, so you can hop into chat If you're asleep/offline, you can just check the transcripts later,...

DLosc

@Ginger That's really interesting, I hadn't heard of that before.

Ginger

16:24

it's always nice when your bad homophone joke broadens someone's horizons

thoughts on allowing OLIMAR in here during the event? (for testing ideas perhaps)

mathcat

Hey guis

Radvylf Programs

-1

Ginger

hy

Radvylf Programs

RTO doesn't have enough languages (or stability) to be useful compared to TIO or ATO links

mathcat

I just found out I actually have a CGCC record

Ginger

16:31

I can recode it to work with ATO I guess

Radvylf Programs

I also don't think a chatbot in TNB is a very useful way of interacting with an online interpreter

We can just post links, instead of cluttering the room with "just trying stuff"

mathcat

^

I can't imagine a chatbot (except Vyxal bot) being in TNB

pxeger

Chat bots are very rarely a good way to interact with any system

Seggan

^

except minecraft commands

hyper-neutrino

16:58

yeah TBH even vyxal bot is more of a minor convenience than actually useful (I mean the user-interactable part) since you could just open the interpreter since people forget the bot format all the time and also it's restricted to single-line code

and you could just open issues yourself and it'd look nicer on the git end and also again the bot format is restrictive

Seggan

who uses more than one line of vyxal code :P

pxeger

Vyxal bot's notifications features (from github webhooks) are useful

Seggan

^

Seggan

17:30

just found this gem on wikipedia:

> Ichbiah publicly stated that within ten years, only two programming languages would remain: Ada and Lisp.

that was 1978

Ginger

what an assumption

DLosc

Reminds me of the commonly mentioned quote about how AI (or was it machine vision?) would be figured out within 5-10 years.

Seggan

or fusion energy

DLosc

@PyGamer0 It's probably going to be Pip, unless the voting changes quite a bit between now and then.

Ginger

vote makina for LYAL!

feedback please

user

17:48

:(

Seggan

what is that

Ginger

an unfortunate reputation graph

oh, bounties

Seggan

why u give away 1k rep

user

I iz fill and throw pissed

@Ginger The description of the output could be clearer

Maybe specify that each stack takes up one column

Newly Featured Posts

19

Q: Convert the Time to a String

Problem One day, you boss walks up to you and tells you he needs to know the time. He still insists after you pointing at the clock directly above you head, and confesses he has a severe case of dyscalculia, which causes him to not even be able to see numbers on a clock. While you're still left ...

code-golf date conversion

pxeger

18:04

Why does this challenge have so many votes, and so few answers, given it's a pretty easy task?

Seggan

time to answer it

DLosc

Maybe the challenge description was TL;DR? I notice that it has a few special cases, too.

Seggan

as it just so happens, "Hodor" in Vyxal-dictionary-ese is "Ho∩ġ"

6

Ginger

18:20

lambda.chat now supports mentions and push notifications!

mathcat

18:37

link plz

Ginger

lambda-chat.gingerindustries.repl.co

mathcat

19:04

I'm gonna give anyone an additional 200 rep if they get more than 37 votes on a scratch answer because I can.

pxeger

but that person will already have 370 rep

mathcat

shh

but together that's 570+ rep

@mathcat I'll change that to 500 (+870 rep) (⌐■_■)

thejonymyster

is there an easy way to access a random challenge?

Radvylf Programs

Yes, my random challenges userscript :p

Or if you're fine with a bias toward challenges with more answers, a random post ID up to around 250k

github.com/Radvylf/userscripts/blob/main/…

thejonymyster

Thank you!

@thejonymyster pinging myself so i can grab it later

Radvylf Programs

19:17

There's also a variant in the same repo that puts the button in the sidebar instead

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms ooh goody :]

ah rats that blanked my ping

whatever ill remember :P

@mathcat in re: silly bounties: im almost at a 1000 rep :] this is good because soon i will be able to set a second ridiculous bounty at the same time as my current one

do you think anyone will ever do this :P

mathcat

oh yeah bounties with no deadline

thejonymyster

^ this but im chanting it in excitement

Ginger

yeah yeah yeah bounties with no deadliiiiiiiiiiiiiiine

thejonymyster

exactly :D

Ginger

19:24

we need to get @lyxal to sing the Bounties With No Deadline Song d:

thejonymyster

thats the real reason to get rep; so you can put up insane bounties

Ginger

do you like my ping sound

pxeger

@Ginger I'd prefer lyxal's fridge sound

mathcat

AAAH

The sound of heaven

des54321

@Ginger why does this sound louder when i play it on loop in VLC than when i play it once

Ginger

19:28

dunno

Fixed bug where clicking on a notification toggled read status instead of clearing it

mathcat

19:44

@NewPosts why you not working?

pxeger

@mathcat what makes you think it's not working?

mathcat

This is a feed here, right?

pxeger

that's an RSS feed, which is not handled by @NewPosts

it only updates roughly every 30 minutes

mathcat

ooh, ok

pxeger

→ 2 non-stick woks moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

emanresu A

19:48

@lyxal lmao

We cooking noodles in there?

New Bounties With No Deadlines

-1

A: List of bounties with no deadline

500(+370*) rep for breaking my Scratch record I hold the record for the most voted scratch answer in CGCC with 37 votes If anyone can break this record, i.e. get more than 37 upvotes on a scratch answer, then I'll offer a 500 rep bounty. Rules It must be a Scratch (only) answer It has to be appr...

Transcript for