The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

00:03

Should we rehash Add A Language To A Polyglot?

2

@RadvylfPrograms ^ pin plz

Radvylf Programs

@forest Right now OTTNB is a bit of an experiment. I'll wait to see how it goes, and get the approval of caird and the other ROs, before adding anything to the description.

forest

cool

emanresu A

Thanks!

lyxal

01:01

@RadvylfPrograms you uh might be right...

That's unedited btw

BowlingPizzaBall

love the smell of &^)OI(4 in the morning

user

lyxal, which zip code are you living in?

lyxal

at this stage, I don't know

user

That doesn't look as bad as a negative zip code but it can't be rational

emanresu A

tfw python macroes

Unrelated String

01:18

iirc there is an actual pep being worked on for macros
but iirc they're more sanitary than the cpp style mostly-arbitrary replacements

ATaco

01:30

@emanresuA The only thing stopping you from drop-in-place using the C preprocessor with Python is replacing Python comments with C comments.

emanresu A

Impressively guly

lyxal

01:48

guly?

BowlingPizzaBall

guly?

forest

guly?

lyxal

And that's enough of that

@emanresuA but really, what do you mean by guly?

Because I looked it up and I don't see what a code golf question has to do with the colour red

emanresu A

02:03

ugly

lyxal

02:39

y'all ever just forget how to java format strings? because I do

Unrelated String

does java even have that

oh wait there's like a stringbuilder method or something

lyxal

looks at String.format yeah I think so

PyGamer0

04:29

@emanresuA uh lol that code doesnt work...

i need to make a new version

Unrelated String

oh because the Fs get replaced before FN lmao

PyGamer0

should have used unicode characters ...

des54321

04:46

i have just come up with a much smarter way to reverse the input in BitCycle

unfortunately i accidentally reloaded the tab and lost my work on it, but i am re doing it (probably more smartly too)

PyGamer0

in flax, 20 hours ago, by PyGamer0

frick this issue this is very hard

des54321

instead of having to individually check if each is the bottom of your working string, just peel off the top, and put it at the bottom of the output youre building by making sure its the first bit in the collector

PyGamer0

@des54321 hmm since reloading the tab makes everyone lose their work: i propose that the new shortcut for reloading the tab will be "ctrl+o"

des54321

it wouldnt have lost the work (i think) if i hadnt been working in a tab which's url was actually a permalink to a different program

des54321

05:00

ta da: dloscutoff.github.io/Esolangs/BitCycle/…

much faster and more sensible reversal algorithm

emanresu A

Nice!

pxeger

05:38

@RadvylfPrograms can you give an example of an answer whose validity is or would be ambiguous?

emanresu A

05:56

Is there something such as Rare Lisp? — flawr Oct 2, 2015 at 20:15

Aiden Chow

@emanresuA might be a stupid question, but whats the joke here ?

i dont get it

Aiden Chow

06:35

is there some web script i can use that will automatically load up a template for me every time i want to write an answer

lyxal

17

A: Shortest infinite loop producing no output

Common Lisp, 6 characters (loop)

The joke relies on the context of the answer

Aiden Chow

06:52

how come the bitcycle interpreter challenge got tweeted lol

codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/247276/revisions

@lyxal oh yep that makes sense now

PyGamer0

07:16

9

A: How to change caps lock key to backspace?

I used this registry key Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout] "Scancode Map"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,0E,00,3a,00,3a,00,46,00,00,00,00,00

^ does anyone know how to revert that change and maybe change caps lock to escape?

pxeger

@PyGamer0 Did you try superuser.com/questions/36920/how-can-i-remap-a-keyboard-key?

PyGamer0

thanks

lyxal

@AidenChow HNQ questions are tweeted

graffe

CMC given a positive integer x, output the smallest positive integer whose digits add up to x

PyGamer0

@pxeger yess i did it!

in flax, 44 secs ago, by PyGamer0

v0.1.9

lyxal

07:57

@graffe vyxal, 5 bytes: Try it Online! - ≬∑?=ṅ

Aiden Chow

@graffe Desmos, 36 bytes

f(n)=mod(n,9)k+k-1
k=10^{floor(n/9)}

Try It On Desmos!

graffe

@AidenChow very nice!

@lyxal seems to need tiny inputs?

Maybe the output should be the sum of the digits

Aiden Chow

@graffe wdym by that ?

isnt the input the digit sum, u basically saying print out the input ?

graffe

@AidenChow the output is a large number with lots of zeros currently. The sum of those digits would be easier to output

lyxal

@graffe it works by iterating through each number from 1 to the answer

graffe

08:09

Hmm... Actually I may have this wrong

@lyxal hence the problem!

lyxal

So if the answer is 3490 it'll check every number from 1 to 3490

graffe

If the input is 123 the output is large

lyxal

@graffe I don't see it as a problem, I see it as the shortest way

Aiden Chow

@lyxal except the answer wont be 3490 ever :P

graffe

Yes sorry. I have never really bought into purest code golf

I like golfed code that is still quite fast

lyxal

08:11

I'm just going off site defaults

Aiden Chow

just curious, what would a mathematical way look like in vyxal ?

lyxal

If you have a specific formula or time complexity in mind, specify it from the start. Don't go changing the goal post because you don't like the answer.

@AidenChow I don't know lol

Brute force is the best I can come up with

But I suppose it'd involve integer partitions, filtering then sorting

Aiden Chow

@lyxal i meant porting my desmos answer, which is purely mathematical :)

the leading digit is just input%9, followed by the required amount of 9's needed to make the digit sum equal the input

(which is input//9, using python notation)

graffe

@AidenChow on my phone your code gives surprising answer for input 2015. It should be a number with 223 9s in it I think

What do you get?

8 then 223 9s to be precise

Aiden Chow

mines gives approximately 9*10^223, which is probably desmos rounding it off to scientific notation

lyxal

08:17

@AidenChow 9₌%/⌊↵~*+‹

Aiden Chow

@lyxal oh lol its much longer

lyxal

Exactly

graffe

@AidenChow ah I see

I guess I should have asked for arbitrary precision

Aiden Chow

i think desmos would have to use a list of digits if arbitrary precision is needed

graffe

I might ask this as a challenge

Seems just north of completely trivial :)

Aiden Chow

08:22

39 bytes as list of digits (only supports up to 10000 digits cuz desmos list limitation)

f(n)=join(mod(n,9),[1...floor(n/9)]0+9)

Try It On Desmos!

lyxal

@AidenChow haha imagine not having arbitrary precision.

graffe

@AidenChow I like it!

Aiden Chow

@graffe u would prob get a bunch of brute force answers, wont be very interesting except for a select few langs imo

lyxal

@graffe well make sure you put it into the sandbox first so people can give feedback

ATaco

@graffe RProgN2, 16 bytes. x={Ø.S#nr#+àxe}é

NGL it's been a long time since I've actually written any RProgN2

So it's prolly possible to do much faster

Aiden Chow

08:29

this might actually be solvable in bitcycle based on what ive seen other ppl here do, but im not proficient enough in bitcycle to actually do it rn

ATaco

It's probably solvable.

New Posts

0

Q: King of the Hill: Greed Control

King of the Hill: Greed Control What is Greed Control Greed control is a multiplayer round-based game in which in every round, a player bet a number inside a specific range, say 1~100. Say 2 people betted 100, then they'd both get 100/2 which is 50 points in the game. Basically, the players th...

king-of-the-hill

PyGamer0

@lyxal explain pls

Aiden Chow

probably goes smth like: start at 0, check if digit sum is equal to input. if not equal, increment by 1. otherwise, output number

or maybe start at 1 idk vyxal lol

im just guessing, cuz lyxal said it was brute force

graffe

@ATaco cool

@AidenChow I guess I could require it runs in TIO

Aiden Chow

08:45

so it would be restricted-time ?

ATaco

The issue with requiring TIO is that TIO is without current updates

So it limits a few valid languages

Aiden Chow

i think graffe meant it runs on tio as in it runs within the one minute time limit

PyGamer0

@graffe ngn/k, 29 bytes: {(k+(k:(_x%9)(10*)/1)*9!x)-1}

port of @AidenChow desmos answer

lyxal

09:09

@PyGamer0 find the first positive integer where the sum equals the input

ATaco

How does .net still not have a copy folder method

graffe

09:23

@PyGamer0 cool.. also fails with 2015 as the input though

Number Basher

09:39

Just wrote 574 words in the Introduction Paragraph in the essay, then found out the total should be 630~770 words...

graffe

argh!

Number Basher

How do I shorten it...

graffe

I would write the rest then go back and shorted the introduction at the end

it will be more obvious what is redundant then

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher well u start by deleting sentences that arent needed, intro should NOT be more than 100 or so words

Number Basher

@AidenChow well i have been accustomed into exceeding the total essay length by about twice as long

jic anyone wants to see it is at txtpad.cn/text123 but I also understand that you're not doing hw for me

graffe

09:46

@NumberBasher are you chinese speaking?

"In this short essay the mythologies of Greek will be presented upon and analyzed on, answering the question exhibited by humanity for a long eternity: the cultural values of the already-deceased Greek society. " That can be improved

Number Basher

@graffe yah

graffe

" Greek society is one of the most early of civilizations that human beings have now successfully acknowledged, dating back decades, centuries, or perhaps, possibly, millennia. " What does this mean??

Are you referring to ancient Greece?

it's very odd to say that ancient Greece has only now been acknowledged

and all civilizations that you would be discussing involve humans

Number Basher

yep ok i'll revise that

graffe

what does the "dating back" refer to?

are you saying that only in the late 20th century did we realise that ancient Greece was culturally important?

Number Basher

Greek society is one of the earliest of civilizations that human beings have now understood, its birth dating back centuries. is this better?

graffe

09:50

the birth of ancient Greece has a date

and the reference to human beings sounds odd

you need to say it is ancient Greece and not modern Greece for example

I guess we are talking 700-323 B.C.E ?

I am not sure that is well described by "centuries ago"

Number Basher

idk y but i hate the word "millennium" in plural form... ;-)

graffe

over 2000 years ago?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece is quite good if you need reminding

Number Basher

ok

revised:

> CS: Ancient Greek society (throughout this essay it will be referred as to simply Greece, we assume, implicitly, ancient Greece) is one of the earliest of civilizations that human beings have now understood, its birth dating back centuries. The ancient Greek cultural values thus are possibly only determined by written forms, especially in the case of Greece, of stories, oral transactions of myths generally converted into written form that is now interpreted.

emanresu A

The Sand Trap

Room for discussions off-topic to CGCC (on-topic discussions s...

graffe

@emanresuA cruel!

:)

but fair

emanresu A

09:54

Some off-topic discussions are interesting to other people, but I don't think this is one of them.

graffe

@emanresuA see above :)

Here is a possibly more interesting OT topic

Number Basher

is there a better place to post

graffe

do there exist still radios that last for dozens of hours on one battery charge?

Number Basher

because i am aware this chatroom is not remotely connected to literature

graffe

@NumberBasher I suspect not really. You are just doing your homework and don't really have a specific question

radios I claim are closer to computers :)

Number Basher

09:56

ok

emanresu A

@graffe wind-up radios lol

Number Basher

@graffe do you mean i shouldn't post or post here is fine

graffe

@emanresuA yes that is one option. But is there another one? I used to own a normal radio that lasted forever on two aa batteries. Does that just not exist any more?

@NumberBasher don't post here about literature

emanresu A

I think it's more that radios as individual devices are becoming obsolete

graffe

@emanresuA hmm... in the UK DAB radios are still a thing

there is a problem in that a lot of people want to be cut off from email etc when in bed

and want to listen to the radio

Number Basher

10:01

@graffe where then, or nowhere on se

graffe

@NumberBasher I suspect nowhere really. You are just doing your homework and don't really have a specific question

although you could follow the off-topic link given above

Number Basher

ok, is there a place where you just chat woops got same qustion

emanresu A

I'd yeet your current conversation over there but I'm not an RO (yet)

Number Basher

ok bye

graffe

@emanresuA I like the profile inclusions!

basically, please who don't sleep needed

Number Basher

10:17

I think my time zone makes me a good RO (but perhaps not right now duh

> One concern is that I used to have a sockpuppet account

what's a sockpuppet?

emanresu A

Just another account

Number Basher

I just found that lefties r more vulnerable to like 20 diseases... not a leftie myself btw jic

@emanresuA ok

why is it a concern?

Idk y but I think newcomers get trp easier

PyGamer0

@graffe crystal radios?

graffe

10:51

@PyGamer0 what is that?

PyGamer0

11:02

@graffe v

wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio

lyxal

@NumberBasher yikes

PyGamer0

@NumberBasher how so?

> Hath not a ~~Jew~~ lefty hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a ~~Christian~~ righty is?

lol

lyxal

Ah yes, the Verchant of Menice, my favourite Shanksphere play

graffe

@PyGamer0 ah yes :)

PyGamer0

@lyxal oh boy i do love shanksphere's plays :P

lyxal

11:19

Shamksphere wrote my favourite plays including Rome-Joe and Juliyeet,Ofellow and McBeth

The part where Hamlet orders a double Big Mac in McBeth was my favourite part

Classic Shamksphere amiright?

PyGamer0

dont forget the Verchant of Menice

@lyxal yea

graffe

@lyxal no royale with cheese?

if you loved the Beano it would be the Merchant of Dennis

3

Number Basher

@PyGamer0 they are subject to the same disease

but not the same odds

i made a ppt on it

> txtpad.cn/leftie

;-)

PyGamer0

i dont need text i need scientific proof :P

and what about ambidextrous people ?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 as do I

graffe

11:29

@PyGamer0 I think they are called chiral fluid these days

PyGamer0

11:47

@graffe what? what the what?

CMQ: Is a one cell brainf*** TC? That cell can hold an arbitrary amount of digits...

graffe

@PyGamer0 Chiral refers to handedness. As in whether you are right or left handed

but in the modern world we shouldn't categorise people in binary ways

they are chiral fluid instead

PyGamer0

i got one cell bf working

idk but somwhow i managed to make the loops work

^^MC: Count from 0 to 10 using loops.

i made it 2 celled..

2 cell bf

m90

12:09

@PyGamer0 No; it can be simulated by a push-down automaton.

PyGamer0

2 cell bf improved

@m90 what do you mean?

m90

@PyGamer0 A Push-down_automaton is less capable than a Turing machine. It can simulate the one-unlimited-cell Brainf*** by storing the absolute value of the cell's value as the number of items on the stack, and having the state encode both the sign of the cell's value and the position of execution in the program.

pxeger

14:03

What the hell is this

lyxal

SE design at its finest

and of course, as expected, there's no relevant mother meta announcement

also yikes, explicit side menu

imagine left navigation

PyGamer0

14:16

@pxeger looks like just a way of showing whether its a Question or Answer..

pxeger

But it's pointless

I can already tell if it's a question or answer, because the layout is totally different: i.sstatic.net/dnzvz.png

And when I search with is:q or is:a, all the results are gonna be the type I expect

so it's objectively useless

lyxal

these are the same people who changed the notification and rep count box mind you

even though basically no-one asked them to

caird coinheringaahing

@BgilMidol If you visit your chat profile, it shows your active hours under your profile picture (tho, that's active in chat as a whole, there's no way to see your active hours for just one room)

PyGamer0

14:51

@cairdcoinheringaahing actually you can see it for a specific room...

i think

looks like you can

DLosc

Is that your activity, or overall activity in the room?

PyGamer0

activity i think

idk

DLosc

Tooltip says "Typical room activity over a 24-hour period," which is technically ambiguous but I think should mean overall activity

But then I don't understand why your graph for TNB looks different from mine

PyGamer0

@DLosc thats my activity in tnb

Radvylf Programs

This uses base64

Wait no

DLosc

14:59

@PyGamer0 I just find it hard to believe that I've ever posted anything in TNB at 11:00 UTC. That's way too early to get up, and the few times I've stayed up that late, I was either golfing (not chatting), reading webcomics, or playing computer games.

PyGamer0

@DLosc that is the room activity for the entire room

Radvylf Programs

@DLosc Different places you see the graph show different data

DLosc

i iz so confuzed :(

Radvylf Programs

E.g., the number in the bottom right means "messages posted in room by everyone" in the /rooms page, and "messages posted in the room by Radvylf" in the "Radvylf's rooms" page

pxeger

Clicking a user in the "users in the room list" shows that user's activity across all rooms, the same as the one in the big box on the left on their profile page

The rooms on the right of a user's profile page ("currently in" and "frequently in") show graphs specific to that user and that room

DLosc

15:03

Huh

Apparently there is typically no activity in several of the rooms I'm frequently in. Accurate, I guess.

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger Well for example, using atob, I can golf about 200 bytes off the JS answer

pxeger

That's unambiguously not a "compression method"

It's clever abuse of an encoding

Radvylf Programs

I would consider it compression

Not a "clever" abuse of an encoding

pxeger

Well all the answers are compression of some sort

the point is you have to implement it yourself

Radvylf Programs

Compression they implement

And "atob" is doing the majority of the work, not my code

pxeger

15:10

but atob isn't a compression method

Radvylf Programs

Would you consider packed stax to use source compression? Because most people here seem to, and that's just an "encoding" in the exact same way as base64

Jelly's number compression is basically just base 255, isn't that an encoding, not a compression algorithm? There's a lot of overlap.

pxeger

I would say neither of those are compression in this context

Radvylf Programs

If btoa/atob provides a way for me to put data in, and get a shorter representation, then convert it back to the original, that's exactly the same as a compression algorithm. Whether it's "encoding" or "compression" just depends on what angle you look at it.

What if my language has a built-in that does huffman coding?

What if my answer is literally just Jelly/Vyxal/Ash string compression?

That's not a "data decompression algorithm", it's usually just base255 stuff, or in Ash's case, a whole separate language within quotation marks

But I don't think many people would consider that to be following the rules

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms nice idea might steal later

Radvylf Programs

And the fact that we can have this discussion and disagree about what is and isn't valid is exactly what makes this an unclear question

PyGamer0

15:20

CMP: Thoughts on flax :p

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms it also uses a dictionary and bit twiddling

pxeger

I'm generally of the opinion that questions like this which are possibly slightly unclear in certain circumstances should be left open just on the benefit of the doubt

Radvylf Programs

@PyGamer0 It's a lot bigger of a project than I'd realized

DLosc

@PyGamer0 Might be cool, haven't looked at it. Good job getting it working--I'm sure it was a lot of work.

DLosc

15:41

@graffe HBL, 10 bytes: -(*(+(%.'<))(1%(/.'< (using the formula (n%9+1)*10^(n/9)-1)

Or 9.5 bytes to return a list of digits: 1(%.'<)(*'('<)(/.'<

pxeger

16:23

aplwiki.com/wiki/…

can I just say "the Iverson bracket is implied" is a remarkably stupid way of saying "APL has no strong boolean typing"

BowlingPizzaBall

17:07

i think i need a bit more feedback on this before i post it, jezza was not really helping

4

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Spend maximal money Imagine that you're going shopping. You are on a budget and just looking around the store, trying to find things you would be interested in. Eventually, you find a set amount of things. However, since you have zero morals, you want to spend the most money possible without goin...

DLosc

@AidenChow 136 bytes in BitCycle, probably could be golfed more. It runs a lot faster on TIO.

Aiden Chow

@DLosc wow impressive, i knew one of u guys would be able to solve it :P

DLosc

131 bytes

Aiden Chow

@DLosc are all those slashes to divide it by 9 ?

DLosc

Yeah. The top part takes the input number div and mod 9. Call those results d and m. Then the bottom part does "Loop d times: add 1 to m, multiply it by 10, and subtract 1." 10*(m+1)-1 is 10*m+9.

Also, just gonna reply to your comment here:

Wait actually numbers are represented as bits in BitCycle, so my point is still valid? Even though it doesn't mention numbers explicity, the bits can still represent numbers (though I realize this probably is not the case because of the truth machine test case). — Aiden Chow 21 mins ago

If you drill down to the heart of the language, there are no numbers in BitCycle, only bits.

The flags are just a convenience feature that lets you input 19 instead of 1111111111111111111.

Aiden Chow

17:25

ya, so i was asking if there were any flags

as it wasnt explicitly stated in the post

DLosc

And I'm saying, the flags aren't really part of the language, so the default assumption should be "no."

Aiden Chow

well it would be nice to make that assumption explicit :p

DLosc

Sure.

Aiden Chow

well im not too experienced in this lang so if u say thats obvious from the post that its ran normally, then ig it is (it really wasnt to me tho)

DLosc

That's fair, and like I said, it wouldn't hurt to specify. The whole challenge is pretty badly underspecified at the moment.

Now that I think of it, the lack of any overview of how the language works is a pretty severe problem, so I'm VTCing as unclear.

Aiden Chow

17:37

is it okay to copy text from the bitcycle github page into challenge body (asking for my own challenge in sandbox) ?

DLosc

@AidenChow It's GPL licensed, so I think you can as long as you give credit and link to the original; and even if there's technically a problem with that from a GPL standpoint, I as the copyright holder give you permission to do so as long as you give credit and link to the original.

Aiden Chow

can u check if this is credited properly and clear enough: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

i put the link to the github near the bottom of the post, should i move it up to the top ?

DLosc

Also, very nearly the same text is in the Esolangs article, which can be copied freely.

@AidenChow Yeah, that's good.

graffe

@DLosc that's great!

New Posts

18:39

0

Q: Convert Alpha-2 to Alpha-3

The Task The task is easy: given an Alpha-2 country code, output the Alpha-3 equivalent. The input may be in any case you choose, and the output in any consistent case of your choosing. Here are the codes: [["AF", "AFG"], ["AX", "ALA"], ["AL", "ALB"], ["DZ", "DZA"], ["AS", "ASM"], ["AD", "AND"], ["...

code-golf string

Aiden Chow

18:52

can u put a funny short backstory in challenges

like for my bitcycle challenge, i was thinking of putting smth like this:
Because I am too lazy to write BitCycle programs myself, you will be writing a program which outputs BitCycle programs for me! Unfortunately, the storage space on my computer is only about a bit, so you will have to make the BitCycle programs as small as possible.

Seggan

thats what i wanted to do

user

Lots of challenges have flavortext, and you could even use a details tag so people can choose whether or not they want to see it

Seggan

@NewPosts for this challenge i had a quantum computer backstory

user

That's short enough that it shouldn't distract anyone

Aiden Chow

ok got it

des54321

18:55

dont write your fanfiction in the challenge description, but feel free to put like a short paragraph or so

Aiden Chow

@des54321 two sentences is fine right

user

imo it is

Hello, World!

20:17

0

A: "Hello, World!"

SMALL, 16 bytes "Hello, World!"! ! prints the expression before it, giving us the code for this question.

BowlingPizzaBall

Oh wow! A new hello world! It's not like i've seen this exact same solution 20 times already!

Pyautogui

20:57

That is the "Hello, World!" challenge for you, I guess.

New Posts

22:20

0

Q: Crossing a Lily Pond

The Narrative You are a frog who is at the edge of a pond with waterlilies. You would like to cross the pond without getting wet, so you plan to jump from lily to lily. There is, however, one problem: you are a rare species of frog which can only jump one specific distance, and so you might not b...

code-golf

ATaco

23:06

Hey guys in <MY LANGUAGE> the hello world is just a single byte! Isn't that Wacky?!

The Sand Trap

Transcript for