The Nineteenth Byte

att

00:03

@hyper-neutrino I don't think the english speakers know how to pronounce y

try the german one

or french

those languages should have the sound

hyper-neutrino

00:40

→ 85 messages moved to The terminal

lyxal

Thank you :)

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: How normal is this group?

emanresu A

this group of people? Not at all.

Aiden Chow

@Steffan for the infinite candle sequence q, i have a solution thats 64 bytes (saves 12 bytes over ur 76 bytes answer), without just blindly copying over the previous solution :P. not gonna share it immediately to see if u can get the solution (or maybe even find a better golf!)

Seggan

01:15

i was just editing a gradle build script and was typing out freeCompilerArgs. just a few minutes earlier i was researching phytoplankton, and one of them produces "yessotoxin". so with those 2 words in my mind, my fingers ended up typing freeCompilerToxins...

lyxal

I prefer either nosootoxin or deadly neurotoxin

Steffan

02:50

@AidenChow well i could shorten if desmos supported recursive funuctions

by a lot

but idk

Aiden Chow

@Steffan true, but i wasnt thinking about recursion

Steffan

maybe actions would make it shorter?

if i could figure out how

Aiden Chow

i dont understand the recursion answers, so i cant really help you with that :(

lyxal

Well it's easy

First you start by understanding recursion

And then you know how they work

Aiden Chow

amazing!

ok i can pretty much only understand the python answer and thats it

kinda

not too sure what the and is doing

Unrelated String

02:59

haven't seen the code you're talking about but it's probably for short-circuit evaluation; i.e. a funky conditional

Aiden Chow

this one: f=lambda a:a and(f(a//2)+a%2)/2

emanresu A

^^ yep

Aiden Chow

so like... what does it do tho

Unrelated String

it returns a if a is falsy or recurs if it's truthy

Niko

03:17

@NewPosts sorry for that mistake :/

Steffan

03:37

@AidenChow well actions did not make it shorter

it made it 1 byte longer

Aiden Chow

yeah well, actions tend to be a bit bulky to set up

Steffan

that was porting the C answer

also i needed a newline at the beginning, but you can't have a newline in a ticker, so it wouldn't have really worked anyway

idk

Aiden Chow

@Steffan hmmm, well ill give a hint: my answer uses the base 0.5 trick that some other answers are using

Pyautogui

03:57

This may be an odd query: Could I have some feedback on this challenge proposal, please? I have had it in the sandbox for merely a day, so this may be premature. What is wrong with it? What can I improve?

PyGamer0

04:49

in the k tree, 4 mins ago, by PyGamer0

gol in k: done!

i guess i am getting better at k :)

Unrelated String

nice

des54321

05:12

@Pyautogui given that im already trying to think of smart ways to solve it, id say its definitely a pretty good looking challenge

i guess my main question, which may have something to do with my already planned answer, is whether the input values for T, F, and U have to be the same as the output values

emanresu A

Probably

I almost have a 1-byter

@Pyautogui I have a 1-byter

In many languages

And a 3-byter in some more

Simply mark F as 0, U as 1 and T as 2, and take the minimum of the two values.

lyxal

06:22

anyone got any concurrency jokes? because that's what I'm learning rn and unlike recursion I don't have any haha funny

Jo King

most of them are meta-jokes, like

Aiden Chow

06:49

like what

or is that the joke? nothing?

lyxal

sounds like the send process interrupted the punchline ;p

Jo King

07:03

sorry, i lost the thread

Adám

> Knock Knock.
Race condition!
Who's there?

emanresu A

@Adám Lol

Adám

> Hard right concurrency to is get.

Try it online!

emanresu A

07:24

Wow this is cursed

@Adám What does that do precisely?

Adám

On each word, it launches a print lambda in a new thread.

emanresu A

So not equivalent to this?

Adám

No. The ⎕DL.1 is just a delay of 100ms to let the threads finish.

@emanresuA Explanation.

pxeger

09:04

Let's stop now

lyxal

What the hell happened here?

I go away and have a shower and this is what I come back to

emanresu A

:61035211 What did this say?

emanresu A

09:19

Hm, it's a ping

emanresu A

09:32

Oh god PHP advocacy

pxeger

09:52

@emanresuA it was a bad joke

so unfunny that I deleted it

pxeger

11:15

@Adám Why does that always output in the same order?

Adám

@pxeger Not sure.

pxeger

Does APL just use native Linux threads?

If so, it's probably Linux's fault

Adám

These are APL threads sharing a single OS thread, like Java "green threads". (OS threads are also available.)

Happens on ATO too. Oh, and you still need to rename "Dyalog APL" to "APL (Dyalog)".

pxeger

@Adám github.com/attempt-this-online/attempt-this-online/commit/…

Adám

Huh, you've got ngn/apl, but I can't see it on the site.

pxeger

11:23

It's disabled (see the comments /* */?), because it doesn't work

Adám

Oh, missed that.

It'd be lovely to have GNU APL there, if you can figure out how to.

pxeger

Shouldn't be too difficult, I think

user

@Pyautogui it’s not an odd query at all, thanks for asking for feedback first

It looks like the rules section is unnecessary because those are the site defaults

You might want to just have the truth table and remove the description before it, which is mildly confusing

Maybe specify that T, F, and U are three distinct values

lyxal

12:41

No way hidden github reference to pxeger?

2

PyGamer0

y_y

oh i see it.

lyxal

"github desktop removes branches after 14 days of inactivity" they said

"we clean things up for you" they said

yet here we are

4 branches in my branch list

all past 14 days and all merged

pxeger

13:05

@lyxal yes, I singlehandedly invented regular expressions

regexps were named after me, definitely not the other way around

lyxal

of course, of course

that's like one of the fundamental things every programmer knows

Radvylf Programs

13:31

pxeger, the one who pxegs, invented the regexp, gexps that er

pxeger

Any feedback?

Radvylf Programs

It seems to make unnecessary use of mathjax. It makes the question look way more complicated than it is.

If your challenge can be described in a sentence of normal english starting the question with "let [symbol] mean x is a substring of y" is pointless

Much better

New Posts

14:00

0

Q: Convert JSON object of directories to list of paths

Task The input consists of a JSON object, where every value is an object (eventually empty), representing a directory structure. The output must be a list of the corresponding root-to-leaf paths. Inspired by this question on StackOverflow. Input specifications You can assume that that the input...

Pyautogui

14:29

Thanks for the feedback @user. I will fix those problems. @emanresuA, is the fact that you have a one byte-er solution so quickly a mark of an uninteresting problem, or is it still a challenge worth posting?

Sorry for my very late response.

pxeger

@Pyautogui It's an interesting problem, but it's just a shame that the shortest solution is not an interesting one

Pyautogui

Got it. Thanks for the quick reply @pxeger. I do suppose that is a bit of a shame.

pxeger

You could make it more interesting by requiring a specific representation of T/F/U rather than allowing answers to choose

Pyautogui

I will do that! Makes sense.

Seggan

15:25

hmm i just found out copilot will be paid in the future... hopefully they make it free for the preview users or im toast 😅

Radvylf Programs

They're like drug dealers, getting you addicted then making you pay for it :p

Seggan

tbh i can live with intellij's autocomplete

cant stand coding in notepad tho, i need something to help me find my methods

Romanp

Just get an openai account and use its edit mode as an IDE. That mode's free for now. /s

(although now I need to test this)

Seggan

nah

i need something while im typing

Ginger

smansn

Romanp

15:29

It filled in code that's scarily similar to my actual main class, even though I only gave it the very beginning portion.

It wouldn't run because it's missing a few things and it has no ideas what functions my other classes have, but it's very close.

Seggan

i wanna give tabnine a try, its supposedly gpt powered

Ginger

so, I think I can change my code to let me input koths from anyone

who wants to volunteer?

Seggan

what are you talking about?

Ginger

GKOTH

my latest project

Romanp

I would be willing if it works with the Java KoTHs. Gradle doesn't work on my computer for some reason though, so IDK if that would intefere.

I have King of the Holster running right now which might be a good test case.

Ginger

15:32

unfortunately, we're Python-only for right now

Seggan

oof

Ginger

but in the future it will support all languages rto.run supports (allthough probably not multi-language)

Seggan

80% of koths i saw are java(script), so might wanna work on those first

mathcat

@Ginger what's that?

also GKOTH sounds dumb

Ginger

please pipe your criticism to /dev/null

Romanp

15:34

My next KoTH will probably be Python (since it involves coordinates and vector math, which I don't want to deal with in Java) so maybe that one? Should submit something to the sandbox in a week or so (want there to be a bit of a break between King of the Holster and this one).

Seggan

@Ginger tbh mathcats right

Ginger

you can tell from looking at the name the two most important aspects of the software:
1. I made it
2. It runs KOTHs

Seggan

i actually had no idea what the G was for

mathcat

@lyxal onions

it should be catchy

if you want to get rich with GKOTH

Ginger

we considered AAAAAAAAAARGH but that's confusing and hard to understand

pxeger

15:36

so what is the G for?

Ginger

mathcat

what does gkoth do?

Ginger

automatically run KOTHs

mathcat

~~akoth~~

Romanp

BOOMKOTH (builder for overcomplicated online machines)

Seggan

15:38

AutomaticCodeThatGingerMadeThatRunsKingOfTheHillChallengesMadeOnTheCodeGolfAndCodingChallengesStackExchangeWebsite

Ginger

*not amused*

mathcat

-AndHiRickX

Romanp

AutoKOTH could even work

Seggan

^

mathcat

same

Radvylf Programs

15:42

Idea: In order to prevent homoglyphs from being a problem in usernames, display a truncated hash of the username next to it

pxeger

A bit like Discord?

Radvylf Programs

Yeah

Seggan

but how often does that actually become a problem?

Radvylf Programs

Normally, not often. If someone's intentionally being malicious, probably often.

Steffan

@AidenChow got it

0

A: Infinite Candle Sequence

Desmos, 65 bytes f(n)=total(.5mod(floor(n/2^l),2).5^l) l=[floor(log_2(n+0^n))...0] Try it on Desmos!

Seggan

15:48

that does not work

Steffan

who said?

pxeger

seems to work fine?

Seggan

nvm

DLosc

@Ginger I used to be a snake_case hater like you ~~until I took an arrow in the knee~~

Ginger

I'm sorry used to be?

DLosc

15:56

Now I tolerate it when writing Python, although I still prefer camelCase.

Seggan

finally, another camelCase lover

DLosc

Or kebab-case, though that doesn't work in languages that aren't Lisp

pxeger

snake case is unequivocally the best case

DLosc

I don't like typing underscores.

pxeger

snake_case is exactly the same as normal english, where spaces are replaced with underscores

Ginger

15:57

^^

Finally, someone gets it

pxeger

counterpoint: I don't like typing capital letters

Bgil Midol

^

DLosc

LOL

Ginger

countercounterpoint: snake case requires shift + underscore but camel case only requires shift

Seggan

@DLosc yep

pxeger

15:58

but camel case is less readable than snake case because there's no gap between the words

Bgil Midol

countercountercounterpoint: there are more capital letters than underscores

pxeger

If you're that fussy, you could swap = and _ on your keyboard or something

Seggan

countercountercountercounterpoint: camel case is better for code golf

DLosc

@pxeger Fun fact: in QBasic, variable names cannot contain underscores. They can, however, contain periods.

Ginger

^^

Bgil Midol

15:59

countercountercountercountercounterpoint: single letters are better

pxeger

@Seggan when do you ever use multi-word variables in code golf?

@pxeger This is also something I like about Haskell: you can have apostrophes in names as well

Seggan

when the challenge is reducing clutter in my code

pxeger

@Seggan clutter ≠ byte count

capital letters are clutterier than underscores

Seggan

but shorter

i hate having lines longer than 60 chars and split in weird spots

and this is the code golf chat, isnt it? ;)

Radvylf Programs

Personally I think both are fine as long as you don't mix them

Romanp

16:02

countercountercountercountercountercounterpoint: Just allow for spaces in variable names already!

pxeger

but spaces are useful for so much other syntax

Radvylf Programs

Use nbsps in variable names

DLosc

@pxeger I take it you don't like Fortran then

Radvylf Programs

Y'all are overcomplicating this

Bgil Midol

@Romanp causes confusion

Radvylf Programs

16:03

var x y = 1; var x = n -> n + 1; var y = 2; x x y == y

Romanp

Yes, but as long as you don't have both implicit multiplication AND spaces in variable names things should be fine.

and force a strict order of operations. Doesn't have to be APL-level, but still make it read in one direction primarily

Bgil Midol

countercountercountercountercountercountercounterpoint: what is the var name in a = 1

DLosc

@Romanp Or have a Haskell-like syntax but with a glyph for high-precedence function application instead of juxtaposition.

Radvylf Programs

Can we stop with the /(counter)+

Seggan

^^^

DLosc

16:06

@BgilMidol Spaces would only be allowed internal to names, not on the ends

Romanp

or at least golf our syntax. counter^8point: your syntax is either invalid or the expression name is "a "

pxeger

Ruby lets you use spaces in variable names: ato.pxeger.com/…

Seggan

so does kotlin iirc, if wrapped in backticks

DLosc

@pxeger I thought it would be something like this ^_^

Radvylf Programs

Ugh I hate those backtick variable things kotlin and scala do

pxeger

16:07

radvylf why is that whenever you say you hate something you're wrong

Radvylf Programs

JS sort of has that...window["this variable name has spaces in it :o"] = 1

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms me too

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms Python equivalent: vars()["name with spaces"] = 1

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger I'm clearly right here. `a b c + d` + name_of_thing is just stupid

pxeger

it's useful if you want to name a variable as a keyword

Radvylf Programs

16:09

Allowing spaces in variable names, unless it's the only option, is totally wack, especially in C-style syntax

@pxeger Then you have `class` or whatever which is ugly. Just add an underscore to the end or pick a different name

Like input_class or function_on_finish or var_to_inc

Seggan

useful for `in` for naming InputStreams

Radvylf Programs

Counterpoint: in is a bad variable name anyway

Seggan

val `in` = FileInputStream(...)

pxeger

@pxeger JS can do this too ;)

Radvylf Programs

const in_stream = FileInputStream(...)

Much nicer

Seggan

16:11

@RadvylfPrograms no

Radvylf Programs

Oops, s/const/val

Wtf kind of name is val for a keyword anyway...

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms that's too long for a function which works with lots of streams

@RadvylfPrograms Kotlin also has const

but only for compile-time constants

Radvylf Programs

It looks almost identical to var at a glance, and a variable is a value too

user

Kotlin’s const is a modifier on val

pxeger

oh

why??

user

16:13

idk lol

DLosc

@pxeger Huh

user

It’s kinda dumb which is uncharacteristic of Kotlin

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger I disagree, but input or in_s would also work. Both just as short as `in` and without ugly punctuation.

Seggan

@pxeger val is immutable

var is mutable

pxeger

but const is also immutable

you can't have a const var

user

16:15

@RadvylfPrograms adding an underscore at the end is uglier imo

Romanp

another idea: make all builtins 1-character expressions which LOOK like the whole word, but underlined, so you can have variable in and the 1-byte symbol "in" which can be entered with something like `i.

user

Someone kick romanp

pxeger

@Romanp i̲n̲?

Romanp

@user Yeah, probably worth it.

But yes, something like jelly-style codepages, but with actually readable symbols

DLosc

> another idea: make all builtins 1-character ~~expressions which LOOK like the whole word, but underlined, so you can have variable in and the 1-byte symbol "in"~~ which can be entered with something like `i.

Seggan

16:17

@pxeger const means a compile time constant in kotlin

user

@RadvylfPrograms btw, backticks are necessary to match on existing variables in scala . I hope that makes your day worse :)

DLosc

BQN has entered the chat

Romanp

Pretty much that, except with c-style syntax.

pxeger

@Romanp I have considered making all keywords uppercase in my language, which is a somewhat similar idea

@Seggan I know

user

@Seggan pretty sure pxeger knows that. It should be const foo = bar instead of const val foo = bar

pxeger

16:17

but why is it const val x = 1 instead of const x = 1?

There's no need for that

user

^

Romanp

yeah, that's what Mathematica does.

pxeger

and every sane language

Radvylf Programs

@DLosc Wow I hate a lot of stuff. 145 stuff, in fact

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms More than that:

Jan 28 at 18:18, by ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I hate everything

user

16:18

Redwolf, say you hate the riemann hypothesis

DLosc

@RadvylfPrograms A few of those are about someone else hating something, to be fair

user

Easiest proof of its being false :p

@pxeger Kotlin is a pretty sane language other than const (which is a rather minor thing tbh)

Seggan

> With const val, const is a modifier on val rather than a keyword. Modifiers > keywords. More examples of this same design are, annotation/enum/data class, private val, inline fun, etc.

quote from Aro

user

Oh it’s a soft keyword

pxeger

Oh, so const can be used as a normal name in most cases?

That's a good idea tbh

user

16:21

I don’t see why you’d need const as a name tho

Radvylf Programs

Make all keywords soft except a keyword keyword

user

Java has const as a reserved word itself

DLosc

Turns out I only hate like 3.5 things

Radvylf Programs

const keyword x = 1; var keyword y = 2; y += x; if keyword (y == 3) return keyword;

Seggan

@user really? never saw it

Ginger

16:22

@DLosc including blursed_cat

user

Older versions of java use const instead of final

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms more seriously, you could have a prefix like \ or something

Seggan

^

user

@Seggan goto too for some reason

Maybe java 25 will have gotos

Bytecode supports it already

Seggan

ye just searched it up

strictfp is also unused since java 17

pxeger

16:25

Even Go has goto

it's useful for breaking out of multiple loops

although idk why they don't just use labelled break/continue

DLosc

@RadvylfPrograms Or just don't have keywords

Seggan

@pxeger ye, labeled loops are pretty much goto

Radvylf Programs

Waiiiiiiiit hang on:

1: while(1) {
2: while (1) {
3: while (1) {
xyz;
continue 2; // goto 2
xyz;
break;
}
break
}
break
}

pxeger

although IIRC Go's goto can only forwards

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms You want to remove my goto for readability purposes? Read this :p

DLosc

16:29

Theory: Every programming language allows you to write code that you should never, ever actually write in practice.

7

Seggan

operator overloading and goto languages all fit in there

pxeger

Proof: These programming languages are (practically) Turing-complete, which means they allow you to write any code you want

Radvylf Programs

Wrong, RSNBATWPL only allows clean, functional, executable code

pxeger

What's wrong with operator overloading?

Ginger

and then there are just languages that you should never. ever actually write in practice

Seggan

16:31

@pxeger nothing. i actually quite like it

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger Nothing on its own but it's easily misusable

Seggan

but sometimes it can get messy

Radvylf Programs

E.g., making things that should very clearly be functions, be operators

or overloading unary + to be size of a set or some garbage like that

Oh yeah, new language going well already

Ginger

what

can you paste that whole license text for me?

Radvylf Programs

Just some standard copyright stuff, you can find it online all over the place

Ginger

16:38

hmmm

Radvylf Programs

The second line, which I'm removing because it's not subtle enough, was this:

IF YOUR FORGOT WHICH DAY YOU FIRST READ IT ON OR IT WAS ON AN AIRPLANE OVER THE NORTH POLE AT MIDNIGHT BETWEEN MONDAY AND TUESDAY YOU HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN APACHE AND ANY CREATIVE COMMONS WITH AN ODD NUMBER OF BITS IN THE UTF-9 REPRESENTATION OF ITS NAME, WHICH SHOULD BE DECIDED USING A MAGIC 8 BALL OR DIGITAL REPRODUCTION OF ONE

Ginger

what the rgksp

Ginger

16:53

If you ever feel useless, just remember that Firefox has a menu bar.

Seggan

17:16

yay i read it on a tuesday

erm, whats the rest of the line?

Radvylf Programs

Not going to spoil it

Once I post a Hello, World! program in raisin-batwitchs the source code will be made available though

Ginger

17:33

why is it called raisin-batwitchs

Radvylf Programs

It's how you pronounce the advebritation

Ginger

what does it stand for

Radvylf Programs

It depends who you ask. Like, pxeger would probably guess something different than caird, for example.

Ginger

> advebritation

Radvylf Programs

I'm using that to sidestep the problem of abbreviation vs. initialism vs. acronym, because it's none of those. It's an advebritation.

Ginger

17:35

oh

well, back to work on GKOTH

does anyone have a python KOTH that they're willing to share?

Romanp

frantically begins typing out my KoTH

Radvylf Programs

Technically posts here are licensed in a way you can share one from whoever you want

Ginger

I know, but I need the arena source

anyone?

DLosc

17:54

I've not made a KotH yet, sorry

Ginger

Is there like a test stack exchange?

pxeger

@Ginger no, unfortunately

Ginger

fooey

what do

Seggan

@Ginger codegolf.stackexchange.com/…

Ginger

:|

Romanp

18:16

SnowballFight looks like a simple one for testing with a lot of bots

Radvylf Programs

18:27

wt...wth...I'm working with a rather complicated recursive sequence, having to do with binary trees with some complicated properties, and there's a closed form formula for it

Unrelated String

nice

Radvylf Programs

Not nice, 'cause I was going to use it as a code golf challenge :|

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Create a program that may or may not determine if a list is in this sequence code-golf sequence code-generation random Your task is to write a program which returns another program which has a nonzero chance of correctly determining if an inputted list is in a sequence described below. This can e...

Ginger

I am playing Beneath a Steel Sky

oh my god I'm 2 minutes in and there's this piece of comedy gold:

Me: *clicks on press*
Character: "It's wheezing and banging... like an asthmatic dinosaur in mating season."

comedy gold

Radvylf Programs

18:59

Okay I'm getting pretty tired of my school wifi. All day it's been in the like, kilobytes per second.

Every message is taking multiple retries to send

Ginger

:|

des54321

@RadvylfPrograms wdym this is how the internet is meant to be viewed

emanresu A

19:50

@RadvylfPrograms Setup a script to run speed tests in the background

Radvylf Programs

It's so slow speed tests time out 100% of the time

emanresu A

Oof

Ginger

emanresu A

... interesting

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