The Nineteenth Byte

des54321

00:00

ah fair enough, but yeah i figure the turns of the loop mean the CC (codel chooser) is sometimes pointing left, and sometimes pointing right

Aiden Chow

the are more colors to the right of (pointer)

des54321

i should probably play around with piet loops at some point i havent actually written anything with real control flow

Aiden Chow

yeah loops are interesting, i have only made two-row loops so far, but i think in some cases 3-row loops are more golfier, tho idrk how to construct one of those, seems like a nightmare

im mainly going off of this tip for loops

des54321

i have to admit, i have trouble visualizing whats going on in the ascii art for some of those loop examples, but I do think I have enough of a grasp on piet to try writing something with loops

i might try writing a simple FizzBuzz program in a bit

Unrelated String

gl

Aiden Chow

00:10

@des54321 ooh good luck

ull probably need conditionals with a loop

the tip says to use switch for conditionals

which is smart idea

des54321

@AidenChow thank you, I think i have enough of the theory down to do it fairly well, although it certainly wont be the most compact

i am going to give myself a bit of a break by using F instead of Fizz and B instead of Buzz, because I'd rather not have to deal with pushing more irritating ASCII than i have to

Bubbler

00:29

When it hits a black pixel, CC change is tried first, so when it makes a right turn it also changes CC once

and with a loop with one pointer instruction (with loop exit being a straight path), you hit an odd number of black walls, which makes CC toggle when you return to the same point

Aiden Chow

oh ye that makes sense

well i already made the pointer one codel anyways to avoid any problems like this, my code prob isnt the shortest tho

also idk why the export to png button in master piets is not working for me, so strange

ayooo finally i got a working piet program for codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/245492/…

allxy

\o/

Aiden Chow

:\ now i gotta convert to ascii piet

the not-so-fun part

wait i just check the meta post again, scoring based on codels seems to be on top

anyone have the tio link for the ascii piet thing

i didnt save it

is it possible for someone to make some code that convert image to ascii piet

Aiden Chow

00:59

bruh i literally transcribed my piet image program to ascii piet and its not working properly

-_-

allxy

Do you have a column of black pixels at the end?

Aiden Chow

@allxy uhhh u need that? it works just fine without a column of black pixels at the end with the image file

works on npiet and masterpiets

but not with ascii piet

-_-

can someone confirm if the image file and ascii piet represent the same code

allxy

I was asking because if you had one in your original program asciipiet would erase that

Aiden Chow

tlrdveccsittttttbbbuebV???? vuikuemmaiiudem vV

no need to run it, just check if its the same

idk if im blind or wut, ive double checked it at least 5 times, it looks all correct to me

des54321

im assuming the best way to output a newline in piet is just to push 10 outchr? cause regular outputs dont add a newline

Aiden Chow

01:04

@des54321 yeah probably

des54321

or i suppose push 2 push 5 multiply outchr for golfing reasons

Aiden Chow

push 3 dup push 1 plus maybe? idk if its shorter

oh oops forgot multiple in middle

push 3 dup multiply push 1 plus ? prob longer tbh

des54321

oh also @AidenChow you were looking for a program that converts piet to asciipiet? try this: github.com/dloscutoff/ascii-piet

linked from the esolangs page

Aiden Chow

@des54321 huh i thought that converted asciipiet to regular image file, i guess im wrong

des54321

oh no you might be right, i think i read too fast

just dig into the code and rewrite it do reverse it :P /sarcasm

Aiden Chow

01:10

4 mins ago, by Aiden Chow

push 3 dup multiply push 1 plus ? prob longer tbh

just tested this

its longer lmao

wait nvm, it shorter unless u using multiple rows

in that case push 2 push 5 method is more compact width-wise

des54321

im currently trying to figure out the conceptual layout of a decent fizzbuzz in piet, and im trying to figure out what the defined behavior in piet is for outputting a negative number as a char (or if there is defined behavior for that)

Aiden Chow

@des54321 a quick test on masterpiets shows that it doesnt output smth, but idk what its outputting

des54321

the masterpiet interpreter outputs an 0xFF unprintable for -1 i think, im pretty sure the offline IDE im using crashes when you do that, i should test Npiet

Aiden Chow

huh, why is npiet printing out question marks for no reason, while the same code in masterpiets works just fine

this is sooo whack

at least they both print out the intended number at the end, tho npiet prints some ? beforehand, while masterpiets doesnt

and ascii piet just downright prints the wrong number for some test cases

-_-

des54321

npiet outputs this on my computer

Aiden Chow

01:19

oh u downloaded npiet? nice

des54321

hmmm i do wish piet let you check how many items are on the stack

oh wait i have an idea, i think i know how do to the fizzbuzz now

Bubbler

@AidenChow Pass -q to npiet to suppress ?

It does that on every input command

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler oh how to do that on the online version

Bubbler

Which one, ascii piet TIO?

Aiden Chow

npiet online

bertnase.de/npiet/npiet-execute.php

Bubbler

01:25

Apparently no way to pass flags there

Aiden Chow

so confused on why ascii piet is outputting differently from npiet and masterpiets

@Bubbler :(

Bubbler

I think your ascii piet is wrong for some obvious reasons, but I don't really want to try to read hex values of the image myself...

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler which part of it is wrong?

Bubbler

First of all, inserting V is not how you insert a newline

Aiden Chow

V is light yellow tho right

Bubbler

01:31

and you have an unexpected black near the end of the second row

Aiden Chow

ye i have black near the end of second row

Bubbler

But you have V at the end of both lines, and you don't have light yellow at the end of the image

@AidenChow I don't think that pixel in the image is black, rather it looks like dark blue

Aiden Chow

oh what the, the pic didnt include the last column, my bad

huh

ye the last column shouldve been light yellow both, thats probably the problem

@Bubbler oh rly, lemme check that as well

Bubbler

Hmm, so if you intended to have a terminating program then the black and the 3-cell light yellow region make sense

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler ye it should terminate at light yellow

^ this is the intended program

des54321

01:40

is there any better way to make the pointer make a left turn other than push 3 pointer?

Aiden Chow

should i just post an answer which scores in codels, i dont want to deal with this ascii piet problem anymore :|

Bubbler

Tbf working in ascii-piet in the first place makes life simpler

@des54321 I don't think so

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler i usually make piet programs in masterpiets :\

transcribing to ascii piet is a very annoying issue

Bubbler

and both jo king and wheat wizard have expressed disagreements with codel scoring, so I don't think it's a good idea

des54321

it cant be that hard to write a program to convert .png to ascii-piet, i swear there was already something bouncing around

Aiden Chow

01:51

ye, there should be a tool to do that

i dont want to deal with converting to ascii piet every single time i make a piet program

its soooo annoying and tedious, and prone to errors

@Bubbler maybe the piet tool that u r making can have that functionality

u can have an option to export to image and copy to clipboard as ascii piet

smth like that

that would be cool

uk i wouldve been able to post an answer quite a while back if it werent for the fact that i have to convert to ascii piet -_-

Bubbler

02:10

I guess y'all can use this script locally

Change the image filename and codel size, and it should give you a correct translation to ascii-piet

From there you can delete trailing blanks or apply end-of-line marker

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler :\ dont have PIL installed

Bubbler

pip install pillow

des54321

@Bubbler can also change that to this and pass the filename as an arg

Bubbler

Fixed to incorporate images with alpha channel

Aiden Chow

does PIL take up a lot of space

des54321

02:19

its a python library so nah

maybe a few megabytes

Aiden Chow

wait is it pip install Pillow or pip install pillow

or do both work

Bubbler

I guess both work

Aiden Chow

just confirming its Pillow==9.1.0 right

when i type in pip freeze

Bubbler

Yes

Aiden Chow

thx for the link, idk what went wrong but i transcribed it wrong

allxy

02:27

@RadvylfPrograms What's the current action count for canvas?

Aiden Chow

how to take out ? in the output?

lets go got it to work

allxy

02:45

@Bubbler Stuff is ... happening... to your kirby

des54321

i am sure my fizzbuzz program is horribly messy, but i have (more or less) the fizz part of it done

now to repeat this for buzz, and then make it loop

lyxal

"Help, being eaten." "Bruh moment"

allxy

Hmm

lyxal

mfing teachers really drank invisibility potions

pulled a sneaky on the kids

Can't believe you need to bring spectral arrows to school just to see your teacher in 2022

Aiden Chow

03:01

@des54321 nice!

lyxal

Frickers really wrote covid fanfic

Can't believe we're shipping Delta and Omicron now

Aiden Chow

haha my first top 1000 word in todays semantle is 452

lmaooo

what even are these top 1000's lel: spoiler

AviFS

03:34

@AidenChow I'm a simple man, I see link I click. And now I'm confused.

Woah, Piet is still a thing?

Aiden Chow

@AviFS lolol, that was just a placeholder link for the spoiler, u have to hover over the hyperlink to see the spoiler contents

@AviFS uh yeah, its still the current lyal

AviFS

@AidenChow Ohhh, now I read it. Those words, lmao

@AidenChow What am I? The anti-Rip Van Winkle?

Usually LYAL are a day!

Don't tell me I slept negative a week.

Aiden Chow

@AviFS the learning sessions are a day. a language is changed every two weeks, so piet is still the current lyal language

AviFS

@AidenChow Wowza. Is Piet the most successful LYAL so far?

Aiden Chow

@AviFS idk, maybe the vyxal one was more successful?

the lyal for piet is certainly a big success tho

piet is just a very interesting lang to learn

AviFS

03:41

Vyxal's not a fair comparison though since all that activity was here, it just moved into this room.

Hmm, should look into it again sometime.

I was under the impression it was just a run of the mill stack-based lang encoded as an image.

Aiden Chow

@AviFS kinda, but it also has that 2d aspect to it as well

AviFS

The image piece, I know, is its claim to fame. I didn't realize the lang behind it was interesting.

@AidenChow I think Hegagony has a stack...

Aiden Chow

the thing that makes piet interesting to code in is the pointer's movement and how the color changes affect what instructions are being ran

des54321

@AidenChow piet is certainly a fun language, i'm pretty sure its actually the first esolang I've seriously tried to learn

also on that subject i think my piet fizzbuzz program works

Aiden Chow

@des54321 yeah, me too!

@des54321 OH nice!!

AviFS

03:47

Which interpreter are you guys using in the end?

des54321

because I wanted to focus on the looping/control flow aspect of the fizzbuzz challenge it only outputs F and B instead of Fizz and Buzz

Aiden Chow

@AviFS npiet mainly, tho i use masterpiets to actually create the code

Bubbler

@AviFS Hexagony doesn't have a stack, it has a weird-shaped grid of memory cells instead

des54321

yeah, i found a decent offline IDE some guy is working on on github and have been using that

okay my FizzBuzz seems to work in my IDE but not at all in masterpiets, debugging time

Aiden Chow

@AviFS for ascii piet, ive been using dlosc's tio link

Mar 30 at 1:22, by DLosc

Here's a cobbled-together TIO that turns ASCII-encoded Piet into a PNG and pipes that into the npiet interpreter:
https://tio.run/##rVltc9u4Ef7OX4HSM2cqlmnJufO0Hisdx1YcTx3bY@eamboeDiRCEmwK5IGgX9q7/vV0FyApgFQkpak@JHzZXTz7vkuPaD77OqaKHB2R7eHVh23yjtB8zPluxpkKs1dv6097RS73RlzsZa9qloq3nsfnWSoVyV/zLuFpl1A5zajMmTeR6Zxcn1@QkuJ8TqfM8z7@Oow@Hd/@jQxIb9Tv9733F8cn5q7X68Hdr8Pypu@d3QyHl@au3/NuhqeGCci@fDz/PKxFeBfnZx8/Xw5vb23RKO70@KaWDbeXVzefji8qifBAM1ZS4R4oouHVhSXGMHoxmxAmxmnMIsGeEy5YHmjjRGiczqFH4Gce6JfAvHgd5lnClWHqaEojKq5p7@7140kqCT4iXNjCjHT88Yl@v3iAvy3yuZCCqBkjKDUh4EO8YSImKcCm41klVaWEq5yAig0J7LeCP9GECeW8S…

AviFS

03:50

@Bubbler Ah yeah, my bad.

Bubbler

@des54321 It might be that different Piet impls handle things slightly differently

des54321

okay the difference between my program's behavior in my IDE and masterpiets has something to do with traversing white codels, I'm gonna try it in npiet and see if it works

Aiden Chow

@des54321 yeah ive noticed that masterpiets does some weird stuff when in white blocks, idk why

des54321

okay yeah it works as expected in npiet

however my program also loops back to 1 after counting to 15 which does NOT make sense

time to figure out what the hell i messed up

ahhhh i see at least partly what went wrong

Aiden Chow

@des54321 well it still prints out the intended output right

des54321

03:56

@AidenChow intended output up to 15 (the first to be a FizzBuzz), but then it loops back to 1,2,....

Aiden Chow

doesnt fizzbuzz cycle every 15 numbers, or am i wrong

des54321

i have figured out why though, I stick zeros at the top of the stack when I need to not print the current num, and I dont pop all the zeroes if its a FizzBuzz

@AidenChow no, because if its not divisible by 3 or 5 it outputs the number

Aiden Chow

@des54321 oh yeah oops

des54321

oooOOH facepalm that pixel should be a pointer operation why the hell is it just a pop

Aiden Chow

@des54321 rippp

u gotta recolor everything now right

des54321

03:59

nah, just a few pixels i think

I make good use of the fact that you can travel across white pixels as a noop without worrying about colors

Aiden Chow

@des54321 oh yep, u have a bunch of white blocks

u should actually make this a full fledged fizz buzz program and submit it to codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/58615/1-2-fizz-4-buzz

des54321

fixed with a recolor and an extra black pixel

@AidenChow i could, but I would have to shift things around a LOT to add the extra ascii codes

right now thats too much work

theres an issue on the git repo for this IDE to add selection tools that let you copy/paste/drag around parts of the image if that gets added i might give it a try

Bubbler

Mass movement and recoloring is on my todo list

des54321

fixed version of the fizzbuzz program

@AidenChow I also cant directly submit this program as an entry to that fizzbuzz challenge, as mine prints fizzbuzz forever, not simply up to 100 (Although that would probably not be as hard, I think i see where a conditional could be slipped in)

att

04:26

I solved Semantle #67 in 105 guesses. My first guess had a similarity of -3.21. My first word in the top 1000 was at guess #98. My penultimate guess had a similarity of 10.00. semantle.novalis.org

it really was off of 98

Aiden Chow

05:05

@att nice, i havent solved it yet

im stuck at 990

des54321

I do think at some point I will try to adapt my fizzbuzz program to be a proper fizzbuzz, as neither the piet website nor the cgcc fizzbuzz challenge has a (handmade) piet fizzbuzz

Aiden Chow

i literally guessed all the synonyms i can think of, no luck

des54321

there is a fizzbuzz that was generated using an assembler someone wrote, but I'm sure I can do better than that

att

i only had two in top 1000

Aiden Chow

@att wtf, how

des54321

05:07

all mine really needs is room to print more characters, and an ending condition for the main loop

att

cuz guess 98 taken a certain way leads to it

Aiden Chow

i have 990, 983, 971, 968, 957, 954 all top 100

im running out of synonyms

:|

att

didn't get any of those

how many guesses are you at

Aiden Chow

@att about 200

att

looked at the similar words list

uhh, good luck? lmao

Aiden Chow

05:08

i even have stuff like 452 and 440

Unrelated String

lmao

att

I had 739 and 972

PyGamer0

gosh shit im so close

Aiden Chow

my top 1000 list so far

ophact

Hello... Somehow Doorknob made it into my dream last night, the story of which I can't remember.

But there was something about Doorknob posting something new in 2022

att

05:11

yeah all I really can say is good luck

Aiden Chow

@att uhhhhh thx... ig

@des54321 where ?

PyGamer0

bruh how is the aa similar to ee

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 does this spoil the answer

att

yes

PyGamer0

^

Aiden Chow

05:14

gosh darn it i need hints :|

am i totally being misled here with my words

Unrelated String

probably

att

no I think it's just hard without getting lucky

I got lucky ;)

Aiden Chow

so the words i have are in fact very closely related to the actual word, and im just being blind here?

allxy

I can see why you're finding it annoying

att

no everything is misleading

allxy

05:17

Try thinking similar to what you've got, but more mathematically inclined?

Aiden Chow

@allxy MATH??!?!?

att

literally everything is misleading i swear

Aiden Chow

huh

wtf, its related to math??

ok i have fricking no clue

allxy

It's a word used in mathematical contexts

att

that's not how I got there at all

allxy

05:18

And it's probably similar to what you've got

Aiden Chow

uhhhhhhh ok.....

helpful but not helpful at the same time becuz now im more lost than before

@att :|

-_-

i think i have better chances just guessing random math terms until i get it

att

I can't really see any frame of mind that leads to it except what I took

which is possible but a but of a leap from your words

Aiden Chow

so its smth math related, and is hard to get from my current top 1000 words

hmmmmmm..........

att

I feel like it's hard to get from most of the top 100 lmao

Aiden Chow

WTFFFF why is 786 even top 1000

this literally makes no sense whatsoever

how are 990, 786, and 891 even remotely related to each other

@att so should i just be ignoring top 100 words

att

05:25

I got it off 972

Aiden Chow

my highest word that isnt top 100 is 891

att

yeah like I said it's hard

Aiden Chow

@att i dont have 972 :(

att

don't know if I can say much more without giving too much away

Aiden Chow

wait maybe u r supposed to see 339 in a mathematical context, instead of its other definition

nah actually i dont think so

allxy

05:29

Hint: It's a word sometimes used before "fuck"

Aiden Chow

what????????

i thought it was a MATH TERM????!!!?!?!

att

literally every word is sometimes used before "fuck"

Aiden Chow

what can be a math term AND be used in conjunction with a curse word

att

"fuck" is universal

Aiden Chow

@att is it commonly used before "fuck", or not really

att

05:33

uh, more so than most words I guess

Aiden Chow

. . .

ok... math term and commonly used before "fuck"

sooo confused rn

huh wtf is 344

what

how is that even related with the other top 1000 words, other than maybe 786

att

yeah good luck

Neil

@DialFrost perhaps you were looking at my network rep, which is almost 200k now

Aiden Chow

this might be the first semantle where im considering to give up

Unrelated String

i'm stuck on 823 now

Aiden Chow

05:38

im approaching 300 guesses

still no luck

Unrelated String

f

Aiden Chow

huh i got 961 by guessing random words

Unrelated String

nice

PyGamer0

yoo i got k running in wsl

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Wordle but Harder If you've been online in the last year, you probably know the rules of Wordle. I was implementing a (very bad) Wordle algorithm, when I thought of another game: Task One 5-letter word from wordle's answer list is randomly selected. Your task is to guess the word. Each failed gue...

Aiden Chow

05:40

getting desperate here, gonna start using the dictionary for synonyms

PyGamer0

Aiden Chow

oooooooh 993

Unrelated String

nice

Aiden Chow

yeah idk where to go from here

Neil

@lyxal *site

Aiden Chow

05:41

especially given that its a math term

Unrelated String

I solved Semantle #67 in 106 guesses. My first guess had a similarity of 9.81. My first word in the top 1000 was at guess #15. My penultimate guess had a similarity of 45.03 (994/1000). semantle.novalis.org

786 :)

Aiden Chow

-_-

nice!

Unrelated String

thanks

Aiden Chow

@UnrelatedString what about 786, i have that too

Unrelated String

:)

Aiden Chow

05:43

:(

PyGamer0

alright i am going to install plugins in neovim; wish me luck

but first i must git it

Aiden Chow

even by guessing synonyms straight off the dictionary, im not getting it

. . .

WHAT

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

I solved Semantle #67 in 331 guesses. My first guess had a similarity of 11.51. My first word in the top 1000 was at guess #43. My penultimate guess had a similarity of 24.22. semantle.novalis.org

uve gotta be shitting me

allxy

Do you see what I meant?

Aiden Chow

@allxy yes, but they were the most unhelpful helpful hints ever

allxy

Sorry

Aiden Chow

05:48

kinda misled me more i think, i started guessing random math terms for a while, which just gave me more random top 1000's that made no sense

still dont get how some of the top 1000's are even top 1000's

even after getting the word

att

xd

gj

allxy

G'joink?

Aiden Chow

lol i didnt even get the word legitimately, i pulled it off a dictionary

@att what was ur path to getting the word

PyGamer0

github.com/PyGamer0/nvim

^ nvim config

att

spoiler

first guess along that line

Unrelated String

05:55

ahah

PyGamer0

@pxeger how do i make git remember my PAT?

uh so much errors

Bubbler

06:29

A math term and often used with "fuck": bool

allxy

06:40

@pxeger Whython's logo should be python's but with drunk snakes

PyGamer0

lol

kirby is still alive

just not rainbow now

allxy

They were trying to add some... anatomy

hyper and I deployed the nukes

PyGamer0

my config sucks, it doesnt even work

allxy

Come place pixels!

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