The Nineteenth Byte

Aiden Chow

00:03

Wordle 253 3/6

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yay

Radvylf Programs

00:27

Whoa...

using a 16:9 laptop is weird now

It feels so...tiny

And everything is so big

How did I live like this

user

I hope you are cured of JS now

6

lyxal

00:58

> You are to write a program for <insert relevant organisation>. Your program will be used to <do stuff>. Unfortunately, this firm, while willing to trust your programming expertise, finds software development very confronting, and so does not trust things like standard libraries for data structures.

Thank you uni, very cool

that's flavour text from an assignment

Sure, I understand that the point of the assignment is to test your knowledge of data structures

but "does not trust things like standard libraries for data structures"?

Really? That's the best they could come up with?

user

02:02

Ahhhh, it's finally happened

I have come upon a piece of code that seemingly does nothing, except everything breaks when it gets removed

@lyxal I think they mean to say "You may have to work for some real idiots in real life and you gotta learn to deal with it"

Also, why are you still on data structures in a college level course? You're at least an intermediate programmer, you've made languages of your own (granted, they're esolangs, but still)

Unrelated String

if the australian system is anything like it is in the us, because they can't be bothered to assess prior experience outside a narrow scope of established testing

alternatively because constructing a degree program is hard enough without personalizing it but it's not like they do a great job with that to begin with

lyxal

02:22

@user because this is the first assignment of the course (the course itself is about programming languages and paradigms), it's building on the data structures course from last semester (which was in C++ - this is in Java), and because it's practicing OOP

also, others in the course may not have the same experiences we are able to have here

@user no, it's flavour text that doesn't have any impact on the assignment - it could be removed of no consequence - the text is purely to give a fictional context for those that might need it

if the assignment were placed in the sandbox, people would comment to remove the extra fluff

@lyxal what I meant is, that of all the ways you could specify that the task is about creating your own data structures and that usage of existing libraries to do it for you, they really chose a ridiculous story rather than just stating that they weren't to be used

DialFrost

hi guys

is this ready? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

emanresu A

02:57

Wordle 254 3/6

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lyxal

03:29

TIL the windows 10 taskbar weather widget has an icon for floods

emanresu A

what

lyxal

yeah

flood icon

it's not flooding where I am though - it's flooding elsewhere in NSW

PyGamer0

03:43

@lyxal what paradgims will you study in that course?

lyxal

03:54

Oop, functional and logic

Bubbler

04:06

Interesting, you study oopsies

11

Q: Functions throwing exceptions: an exception to the rules?

I'm seeking greater clarity around whether we currently allow functions to throw exceptions, and if so, under what circumstances. There seem to be contradictory posts on this topic—several highly upvoted and all with positive scores—scattered across Meta. No exceptions If people answer with func...

Btw, does anyone have a strong opinion on this?

Radvylf Programs

I'm in favor of allowing outputting from functions by exceptions

As long as they can be caught

emanresu A

^

Radvylf Programs

Since that's no different than, e.g., requiring await or .then to get a reasonable output from an async function

emanresu A

Or [*...] to get a reasonable output from a python generator

Ooh, cursed idea: Language where you can have invalid syntax inside try/catch blocks

Bubbler

That sounds like a good argument, also there's f(x)() thingy

Unrelated String

04:16

@emanresuA reminds me of intercal, minus having exception handling

DialFrost

guys

emanresu A

@Bubbler Wait, you can do that? Hmm okay

DialFrost

shld i post the "stack em"

Unrelated String

@lyxal would you happen to also be implementing a lisp in java at the end of the class

Bubbler

@DialFrost Now that you decided to keep the rule for odd numbers, I don't see any reason to not apply the same rule to even numbers

emanresu A

04:21

Feb 11 at 3:19, by Razetime

also when you ask for help on a sandbox question please link it

Also, it's my birthday!

Unrelated String

hbd

DialFrost

@Bubbler wdym

lyxal

@emanresuA enjoy being older gamer

Unrelated String

04:38

actually wait i forgot my programming language concepts class also had this one assignment where like
we horrendously misapplied some machine learning library
which we were never actually taught
good thing i still got over 100% on it without actually training it enough to pass the unit tests (yeah...) because there's just that much extra credit

since most of the assignment was in horrendously misapplying model-view-controller instead

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Laggy text editor interactive Your challenge is to write a program that constantly prompts for input, and when input is given, output that five seconds later. However, your program must continue prompting for input during that time. Since this is a bit confusing, here's a demo. <pre id=x></pre><

Bubbler

@DialFrost Just remove the line "Note that only odd numbered n is allowed"

and make a few examples for even number n

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA Nice!

Aiden Chow

04:55

any thoughts on this: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

lyxal

I have obtained smart

Aiden Chow

^ also i need some suggested test cases from anyone who can solve it before i post it on main thanks

lyxal

it returns void and Node<T>

hyper-neutrino

Wordle 254 2/6

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Bubbler

Actually a version of Wordle played with digits is called Number Baseball in Korea, and it has been on our elementary math textbook at least since 20 years ago

emanresu A

05:09

@hyper-neutrino what how nice

What was the first?

@Bubbler I've had that in maths class too. The difference is that wordle requires valid words as guesses

Radvylf Programs

Jeez one guy puts the world's largest nuclear arsenal on high alert and eeveryone makes a big fuss about it

lyxal

@emanresuA how many olds are you? As much as caird, hyper and I, or as much as radvylf and pygamer?

hyper-neutrino

@emanresuA i always start with TRACE

second 2-guess in a row lol, insane luck recently

Unrelated String

lol nice

i've spammed radvylf's random clone some but never bothered trying actual wordle

emanresu A

@lyxal A bit younger than pygamer afaict

Unrelated String

05:16

if your ol' reliable starting word doesn't end in s i assume wordle's dictionary does not have plurals of four letter nouns

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA oh wow...I'm 16, are you younger than me?

emanresu A

TIL knive is a word

@RadvylfPrograms Yes

Unrelated String

this is like the fifth time i've found out you're 16 and it still surprised me for a second lmao

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA Huh, I'd assumed you were roughly lyxal-age

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString it does

Unrelated String

05:18

interesting

hyper-neutrino

TRACE is the mathematically optimal choice according to 3b1b's information theory video

but that's if you play perfectly

since humans do not play mathematically optimally it really isn't a big deal what you start with

i just use it cuz i can't think of smth else i'd really like better

Radvylf Programs

@hyper-neutrino And if the wordle words aren't chosen intentionally to mess with people who use words like CRANE :p

Unrelated String

i guess if the puzzle runners actually consciously choose each day's word the plurals aren't that important to actually account for but they are still valid guesses anyways

Radvylf Programs

I usually vary up my start word kinda randomly instead of sticking with a close to optimal one

hyper-neutrino

pro strat use the last day's answer as the start

Radvylf Programs

05:20

It's higher risk, since I could get a situation like today where I get two fully gray words in a row, but I've also occasionally done really well because of it

hyper-neutrino

i think my brother's doing that

spoiler tbh i don't really understand my friend's strat; it's probably to get more info on the letters and guarantee a guess but the way i do it lets me yolo like 2 or 3 guesses more often but sometimes i end up going to 5

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino you have siblings? Huh, TIL

Unrelated String

i can see why that strat would be better for making sure to get it but it would just feel wrong to not yolo that shit

Radvylf Programs

I really need to learn to not watch videos relating to food at 11 PM

emanresu A

I use SONIC and LATER

(From a puzzling.SE comment somewhere)

Radvylf Programs

05:26

Oh forgot I was working on a new prototype golfing language

I have so many projects and unfinished school assignments and random taks to do that I have no idea anymore lol

Unrelated String

lol

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal he's been in this chat before lol

Bubbler

05:48

So weird to see something gets popular just by putting the "word game" theme on top of it

Unrelated String

06:30

this so hnq could have the makings of a challenge stackoverflow.com/q/71287550

PyGamer0

08:08

@emanresuA happy birthday!

emanresu A

Thanks :)

PyGamer0

@emanresuA what?!

whats your age? 15 i presume

emanresu A

14

pxeger

huh

you're by far the least annoying teenager on this site

PyGamer0

you turned 14 today .......

emanresu A

08:10

@pxeger Lol

PyGamer0

im about to be 15 in a couple of months

@emanresuA and you have >20k ~~reputation~~ internet points ......

emanresu A

I've been tryharding this site :P

Unrelated String

@pxeger i will be grievously offended for the next month or so :P

pxeger

how old are you?

PyGamer0

19

Unrelated String

08:13

19

hence the joke

early april birthday

pxeger

oh right lol

nah I wasn't really thinking of 19 as teenage

PyGamer0

@UnrelatedString wait how the hell did i get it right

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 :O pygamer can predict the future

Unrelated String

yeah it doesn't really fall into the teenage bin

Aiden Chow

what how tf yall 14

PyGamer0

08:15

because we were born 14 years ago...

Aiden Chow

im like 13 and not even half as smart as any of u

PyGamer0

how else would we be 14

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 ok ya but like... you know what i mean right

PyGamer0

@lyxal your birthday is on 27/6?

im not doxxing myself

i shall not tell my birthday hmmmm

@AidenChow then read and read and read and read and read and read and read and read

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 read what???

PyGamer0

08:18

books

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 textbooks??

lyxal

@PyGamer0 wrong

PyGamer0

@AidenChow any books

ophact

@AidenChow Perhaps

PyGamer0

i have pre university level physics book

i dont really understand calculus though lol

Feb 11 at 5:48, by PyGamer0

does anyone know why i have to take out and put back the vga cable atleast twice every time i turn on my computer so that the monitor turns on?

emanresu A

08:27

Calculus is okay until you get to integrals?

@PyGamer0 Old cable, probably

ophact

Oh no not integrals

They're basically a more annoying version of derivatives

emanresu A

Or you're putting it in upside down? (can you do that with vga cables?)

PyGamer0

@PyGamer0 i got a new hdmi to vga connector

today

and its now fixed

emanresu A

Hmm okay

PyGamer0

this means the old hdmi to vga was broken from the start oof

@emanresuA no you cant

one side is wider than the other

\----/

@lyxal near that?

@emanresuA i dont have calculus books

but i do have What If and How To :P

emanresu A

08:31

Those are great.

ophact

Those should teach you at least a bit of math

I love "What If" in particular

PyGamer0

i already know a it of math :P

in flax, 5 hours ago, by PyGamer0

:( and :) will be diagraphs lmao

fun fact: since _:, are diagraph starters, :( :) :D :_ :! :X :O ;( ;) ;_ are valid atoms (if i add them) lmao

emanresu A

And :D, :P, :p, :|, :c, :¬ lol

ninja'd

PyGamer0

yeah lol

this is the best thing about flax :P

emanresu A

It's hard making a golflang by yourself

PyGamer0

08:34

i am not making it on my own ...

(well currently yes but overall no)

lyxal made the parser, proven by:

Dec 30, 2021 at 5:17, by lyxal

I just spent the last half-hour trying to understand how tf Jelly parsing works to write a parser for flax and now I lowkey have a headache

emanresu A

Oh okay, didn't realise :P

PyGamer0

speaking of flax, i started it in December and now I got a couple of answers in it

well that was kinda faster than I expected

i should also stop answering in flax since i might change things here and there

@PyGamer0 actually i do take feedback from lyxal from time to time

emanresu A

How do you internally represent strings in flax?

Int arrays, or something else?

PyGamer0

      'joe mama'
>
>
[106 111 101 32 109 97 109 97]

@emanresuA ^

emanresu A

So, python integer arrays?

PyGamer0

08:49

yes

emanresu A

Kay

PyGamer0

how the hell would i have javascript int arrays in python

lol

in flax, Jan 2 at 4:29, by PyGamer0

ok i got ideas:

@UnrelatedString ^

CMC: Replace all occurences of 3 with 6 given a list of ints.

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 Check the flax repo :)

PyGamer0

09:04

looking at all activity looks like you forked it

emanresu A

github.com/PyGamer0/flax/pull/37

PyGamer0

noice

thanks for making more nilads

especially _S

emanresu A

Most of them were copied from Vyxal.

PyGamer0

merged it

Unrelated String

@PyGamer0 no particular thoughts, but interesting

@PyGamer0 Jelly, 5 bytes

PyGamer0

09:18

@UnrelatedString if i add that then ill make a flax standard library :P

emanresu A

Vyxal, 4 bytes

Unrelated String

it's sort of hard to think of how to populate a stdlib for a golflang of things that are worth putting in a stdlib but don't make the cut as builtins but you could just go mathematica mode lmao

emanresu A

For a golflang, why bother with a stdlib instead of including it in the code?

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 Desmos: ¶f(l)=\{l=3:6,l\}

¶ is newline

17 bytes

emanresu A

@AidenChow Hm, desmos vectorisation is more powerful than I thought

ø⁄

Unrelated String

09:26

maybe one idea could be to have parallel verbose and golfy modes where the verbose mode has a limited set of builtins and requires imports for stuff that's available by default in golf mode

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aiden Chow

@emanresuA yeah, i like working with desmos cuz u can do quite a lot with lists

lyxal

10:28

@emanresuA because some things like a grid object that handles grid manipulation or a canvas object that's good for ascii art may not make sense as built-ins or may confuse the built in list

A golflang stdlib would be for useful golfing stuff that is a bit too practical for a golfing language

Like you could have JSON parsing stuff in the stdlib, but you probably wouldn't put it as a standard built in

PyGamer0

^

Hello, World!

10:44

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Binary Lambda Calculus, 0 bytes (30 chars) 0:2a48656c6c6f2c20576f726c6421 Technically ties with the answer in stuck! Try it online!

mathcat

stdlib?

like with imports?

in a golfing lang?

PyGamer0

yeah

mathcat

but it'll be longer that just digraphs, right?

PyGamer0

yes

pxeger

you could have, e.g. wxyz as 4 builtins whose meanings change depending on what's imported

so then if you're using several related functions from the same imported library it could be shorter

mathcat

10:50

hmm yeah

unless you import many libs

Sandbox Posts

11:12

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Implement a complex search engine code-golf Your job is to implement a search engine. The search engine should come with a few extra features to ensure that users can obtain the most relevant results. Input, part 1 Your program will take a string as input. The string is composed of a bunch of wo...

PyGamer0

11:30

i believe i made a better version of jelly's ¦

Dec 23, 2021 at 10:11, by hyper-neutrino

yeah... like wtf is this lol

      [[1 2][3 4][5 6]]L[0 2]°
>
>
[2 [3 4] 2]

ha it works

user

@pxeger whoa there

@UnrelatedString yoo can we have a story about that? I would really love to know how to misapply machine learning

lyxal

12:41

thank you user very cool

mathcat

@pxeger cough don't let radvylf see that

@emanresuA happy birthday too

Ginger Industries

13:10

٩( ᐛ )و

@emanresuA happy sunrotationday!

I've come up with a name for my ~~esolang~~ normal programming language

since @emanresuA pointed out it was basically scratch, I am calling it Etch

PyGamer0

I learn that I am an idiot.

1 hour ago, 26 minutes total – 38 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 14 secs ago by PyGamer0

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 hah, I've known I was stupid for years

PyGamer0

in flax, 1 hour ago, by lyxal

it turns out that the issue is that you're an idiot.

^ out of context quote of the day :P

Fmbalbuena

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Wordle

mathcat

@GingerIndustries eyy me too

coincidence?

Ginger Industries

13:22

@RadvylfPrograms import syntax for Etch: using [modulename]/using [thing], [thing], [etc] from [modulename]/using all from [modulename]

Adám

@GingerIndustries What if you want to import all from somewhere?

Ginger Industries

@Adám all is also a keyword (that works like in Python)

Adám

Ah, so a module can't have a thing called all?

Ginger Industries

no

mathcat

@GingerIndustries it's called Etch?

Ginger Industries

13:25

i mean it could but you would have to call it all_ or smth

@mathcat yes

Adám

I'll stick with APL; no reserved words whatsoever. Phew.

Ginger Industries

eventually the site will be at etchlang.dev

@Adám I think you're biased towards APL (which is probably because you work there)

Adám

No, I work with APL because I'm biased towards APL.

Ginger Industries

hmm

which came first, the Adám or the APL?

Adám

APL. Definitely.

Ginger Industries

13:28

huh

mathcat

Adam because it rhymes with egg and the egg came first.

EGG TEAM

Adám

I believe the chicken came first, even though scientists claim the egg came first, but that is pretty irrelevant for this question.

Ginger Industries

@mathcat Ꙫ_Ꙫ

PyGamer0

@Adám i believe that the universe formed first

Adám

I agree on that, but then what, chicken or egg?

mathcat

13:30

@PyGamer0 I think Jon Skeet was there before the universe

And Dennis was next

Adám

@GingerIndustries I was exposed to APL before I was born.

5

Ginger Industries

In the beginning, there was darkness, chaos, and the great god Jon Skeet.

mathcat

And then ... came Dennis.

Ginger Industries

hmm

mathcat

For years, they fought who'd sit on the throne.

Until ... CGCC

Ginger Industries

13:31

dennis vs jon skeet who would win

PyGamer0

@Adám simple elements

then stars

mathcat

no

Adám

@mathcat So they decided to make peace, by splitting PPCG off from SO; Dennis taking the PPCG throne and Jon taking the SO throne?

mathcat

exactly!

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries Dennis is 4D, obviously he wins

Adám

13:33

Jon Skeets dimensionality isn't a finite number!

Ginger Industries

creation myths as told by TNB

PyGamer0

@Adám oh its a complex number :p

Adám

Complex numbers are (mostly) finite (except a+∞i etc.)

Ginger Industries

@Adám pathetic. I have existed for an indefinite amount of time and still suck at code golf

mathcat

SEE

see

PROOF

Ginger can time travel

And ginger took 1980 html classes

PyGamer0

13:39

i can air travel

and i took a lot of classes in school

Ginger Industries

@mathcat proof?

PyGamer0

>2000

mathcat

2 mins ago, by Ginger Industries

@Adám pathetic. I have existed for an indefinite amount of time and still suck at code golf

Ginger Industries

@mathcat how does that prove I took 1980 html classes

@NewPosts bakery please

mathcat

one sec

Adám

13:40

→ 1 non-fungible yeast moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Ginger Industries

what is going on with all this spam

PyGamer0

@Adám i hate the metaverse

and nfts

Adám

The combination is…

well, negative with negative?

PyGamer0

more negative

¯1+¯1

Ginger Industries

well once the metaverse shows up we might finally get meta-meta-meta stack exchange

Adám

13:42

Wouldn't it just be Meta Meta?

Ginger Industries

Meta [metaverse] Meta [discussion about metaverse] Meta [SE meta site]

Adám

I know someone whose mother's name is Meta. How cool is that‽

Ginger Industries

aaaaaa interrobang

New Posts

0

Q: Which Western Zodiac sign is today?

Task: With the minimum amount of bytes, determine today's Zodiac sign using the programming language of your choice. Rules: This is code golf, the answer with the fewest characters wins. The initialization of getting the current date into a variable (e.g. var now = new Date();) does not add to t...

code-golf date

Ginger Industries

@NewPosts hmmmm

was this in the sandbox at any point?

PyGamer0

13:45

i dont think sooo

mathcat

in The TomaRTO Garden, Feb 8 at 19:57, by ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Imagine if you went to a website and it had that color of red at the top. It might just be my screen, but that's violently, eye-searingly bright.

in The TomaRTO Garden, Feb 8 at 20:06, by mathcat

in The TomaRTO Garden, Feb 8 at 20:01, by ta Radvylf srik su shilani

What's your obsession with very bright saturated colors lol

I'd count that as proof

Ginger Industries

hm

mathcat

14:04

Let's make a poll

Who thinks Ginger is a time traveler?

wait I'll design a poll

Important Poll

vote results for nerds

Ginger Industries

CMQ: What would you call expressions like addition, subtraction, comparison, etc? (i.e. 1+1, 2>1)

mathcat

14:20

basic maths

well I think they're just called expressions

Newly Featured Posts

38

Q: Concatenated halting problem: no + no + ... = yes

Challenge Write \$2 \le n \le 10\$ distinct, valid non-halting full programs in your language of choice. If all of them are concatenated in order, the resulting full program should be a valid halting program, but if any of them are left out, the result should still be a valid non-halting program....

code-challenge source-layout halting-problem

Bgil Midol

simple arithmetic

Radvylf Programs

@GingerIndustries Not much of a fan of the from syntax

Ginger Industries

@RadvylfPrograms what's your suggested alternative?

Radvylf Programs

import module.thing, import module, import module.*, import module.{x, y}

Youn can using using too ofc

And {} syntax is just for convenience

mathcat

14:29

or get

Radvylf Programs

Very much glad the tamrto garden has frozen

Which genius came up with a name that implies RTO is a worse version of ATO

TomATO garden obv. makes way more sense than TomRTO garden

Oh wait it was pxeger

Hmmmmm

I alao love the fact that it's called the "official" chatroom of RTO when I've never even entered it

Wish I hadn't removed myself from the RO list, otherwise I'd rename it

Something like "Trash Can 2"

Ginger Industries

14:44

i'll rename it for ya

@RadvylfPrograms speaking of RTO, how has it been going

Radvylf Programs

It hasn't

Ginger Industries

@RadvylfPrograms I've finally managed to get OLIMAR to work consistently

mathcat

CMC: Interleave without built-in

Radvylf Programs

Maybe in a few months I'll try to get RTO's sandboxing working again

@mathcat Zip, squish

mathcat

nice

PyGamer0

14:55

uh thats what is said lmao

in the noxan room

zip then flatten

Ginger Industries

15:09

problem: etch parser has decided that everything is a variable

including keywords

:|

Radvylf Programs

Sounds like a job for if/else :p

Or switch if you have it

Ginger Industries

15:54

fixed it!

Radvylf Programs

Pogchamp

mathcat

Firepigeon

I learn that I am an idiot.

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