@tjjfvi bruh just use the answer to explain itself /s

@Bubbler Wow, that got a lot of upvotes fast!

@DLosc imagine needing a whole month to snake LoTM

Is New Posts down?

Yes

Not anymore

@NewPosts STATUS

Nice

Thanks Obama Redwolf :P

RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[23:30:20] opened: sandbox
[00:10:05] request: chat.stackexchange.com/messages/ack
[00:10:10] status: 240

When I see ack I immediately think of ackermann

What should the infinity-th root of infinity be?

infinity

NaN

@RedwolfPrograms In the same way that inf - inf isn't defined, neither should that

Inf - Inf is 0, duh

Therefore, inf = inf?

For some kind of easter egg, you can give the smallest fp-representable number greater than 1

@cairdcoinheringaahing And so, |N| = |R|?

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's the only possibly useful result

This is for a golfing language

Golfing < mathematical consistency

You don't want NaN in a golfing language

@Bubbler which would be 1 + 2^-52 or something

But I can't imagine any golfing challenge that will require you to do inf^(1/inf) at all

@RedwolfPrograms If anything, it should be lim_{n -> infinity} n^{1/n}

at least literally

I still need it to be something, though

Why do you have infinity in the first place

Because it's useful for lots of stuff

Example?

@cairdcoinheringaahing aka, 1

Trig

What kinda trig are you doing?

And it makes it so that 1 / 0 type stuff has a reasonable value

And floats without Infinity would be cursed

But 1/0 shouldn't have a reasonable value

Man, use atan2 please

@Bubbler That helps so much when using tan

This is totally an XY question :P

No it is not

You need Infinity for non-cursed floats

How do you not realize this

What is 100 ** 100?

Don't ask what the infinity-th root of infinity should be, ask why you need that, and how to fix it :P

@RedwolfPrograms That's well-defined

10 ** 200

@cairdcoinheringaahing Not when you have 64 bits to do it

100**100 = 1 and then 200 zeros

Okay wait, 100 ** 10000000

1 then 20000000 zeros

:P

Like I said, in a 64-bit float

You sussy baka

We mathematicians don't constrain ourselves to such petty mortal issues

Why do you use 64 bit float for integers :P

Nah I'm leaving, lemme know when y'all can be reasonable

Imagine a computer scientist saying that mathematicians aren't reasonable when it comes to numbers :P

And by refusing to use bigint you're basically limiting yourself to the pre-ES6 era of JS :P

Even J fucking S lets you use arbitrarily sized integers

@Bubbler Who said I'm working with integers

If I have floats it's for a reason. I'm not six years old.

Of course I know stuff like Infinity - Infinity or the Infinity-th root of Infinity isn't defined. If there was an obvious answer or I could just return NaN, don't you think I'd just do that instead of asking here?

@RedwolfPrograms Ever since they removed Herobrine in 1.18, I'm not a fan either :(

They stopped removing herobrine a while back though

@RedwolfPrograms Believe it or not, you don't need every single edge case covered

I mean, does it actually help golfing on CGCC, where most (newish) challenges let you handwave precision or number limits?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well then what do I return?

I can't just return nothing, y'know

Summon Cthulhu, like normal languages do

Or Herobrine

I pride myself on having extremely janky but still somewhat systematic edge cases in my floating point math, in true floating point style

Look at Ash's floating point division or pow

Then choose a random integer

That's not systematic or reasonable or useful

@lyxal I did, but it wasn't very informative

if I choose something, it's either because it could be useful at some point, or it makes my chart look nice and symmetrical

Which is often correlated

When will the Infinity-th root of Infinity ever be useful?

Infinity**(1/Infinity)
1

Reference: JS

Well joke's on you, I already decided on 1 :p

isnt there more then 1 type of infinity

I don't like when people say that

@RedwolfPrograms Get used to it, that's how maths works

The wording doesn't seem right though

There's more than one size of infinity?

And plus whenever people say that it's 90% of the time in that "I know some vague details about a somewhat surprising fact but I don't actually understand it, yet I'm going to pretend I'm smarter than you anyway" voice

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait, no, it's says it's 1.0: Try it online!

Trying to decide if -1 ** Infinity should be 1 or -1, but I know better than to ask here...

@RedwolfPrograms There is no way to establish a bijection between the natural numbers and the reals, and, as the codomain of any function f : N -> X ⊂ R will be a strict subset of R, we must have that |R| is strictly greater than |N|, which we define as aleph-null

Alternatively, you can't list all the real numbers

Still feels wrong to call those "different infinities" though

@cairdcoinheringaahing don't you just do that thing with the big infinite table where you treat it as a string though

What?

@RedwolfPrograms I suppose "differently sized infinities" is more accurate

Any root of any number, with edge cases included

Made this by flipping around my float power table, which handles a lot of the edge cases neatly

nRn?

Typo

N

@cairdcoinheringaahing if my internet was any good, I'd post a screenshot of what I mean

What's N?

In this case, the normal square root

integer and rational have the same cardinality

nvm I can't fricking read

@RedwolfPrograms As you can see it's very pretty and symmetrical

@lyxal Yeah, rationals

Oops, I made a mistake on my table

|N^2| = |N|, and the rationals are a strict subset of N^2

Should be -1s for the top half, on the two sides

Now all I need to figure out is how to handle no real solution

Considering just pretending the input was positive, and flipping the sign of the output

Because -2 ** -2 is -4, duh :p

Well, if you want float with infinity but not nan, it's what you get

@lyxal As an aside, I hate the application of Cantor's diagonal argument to only the interval (0, 1). It works just as well for all (positive) reals, and it makes a lot more sense how it applies to the reals as a whole, aside from just hand-waving "oh, this applies to (0, 1), so it also applies to R"

If I wasn't the impostor I'd be non-sus and just add gaussian floats to JS, but eh

@cairdcoinheringaahing as I said I can't read sometimes

What if the square root of -4 was -(1 / 2)

Wouldn't that be funny

wtf

Does anyone mind if I quietly murder redwolf?

@cairdcoinheringaahing I like the (0, 1) argument, and I'd just use sigmoid to establish bijection between (0,1) <-> R

I'm kidding, I'd never write something that cursed lol

suuuuuure

hides shovel

@Bubbler I get it, but when introducing the concept of the argument, it's always done on (0, 1), then extended to R with the reasoning "oh, it just works"

Anyway, see y'all later o/

I'll invent more horrible math in the mean time

> How can [one times one] equal one? If one times one equals one that means that two is of no value because one times itself has no effect. One times one equals two because the square root of four is two, so what's the square root of two? Should be one, but we're told its two, and that cannot be.

Can't wait to tell y'all about my idea for 0 / 0

Once you know how the argument works, sure, (0, 1) is fine. But as an introduction to it, it fails to properly convince newbies that |R| > |N|

Here's a question I was discussing with my professor earlier: let $X$ be some countable set, and $C \subset X$, such that both $C$ and $X \setminus C$ are both countably infinite. There exists a set $F$ of all functions that "classify" all elements in $X$ either into $C$ or into $X \setminus C$. For example, let $f \in F$ be a function which sets an element $X_i$ into $C$ if $i$ is even. Obviously, there are an infinite number of sets in $F$. But, is it a countable, or uncountable infinity?

We came to the conclusion that it depends whether the set of all permutations of $N$ is countable, as each function in $F$ is essentially a bijection from the naturals to themselves, but couldn't prove whether the permutations of $N$ is uncountable or not

I don't even understand the classification process

The set of subsets of N in uncountable, and the permutations of N is at least as large as that

The set of subsets of N in uncountable by cantor diagonalization

@Neil Essentially a function that returns 1 or 0 given some input in X. If the output is 1, stick the input in C. Otherwise, it's in X \ C

@tjjfvi each subset maps trivially to a real number between 0 and 1 anyway

Yeah

Permutations of N is at least as large as subsets of N because you can make a permutation of N out of a subset; imagine interleaving elements of X with N - X

Ah, that's clever, I didn't think of that

I'm not sure what $F$ is about, but it seems like it's similar to the set of subsets of N?

@cairdcoinheringaahing hmm, so without the restriction that C and X \ C are infinite, then that's just a boolean function on the naturals, i.e. a subset, i.e. uncountable

and if one of the sets is finite, then you get terminating binary fractions, which are obviously countable

so the remaining functions are still uncountable

well, that's to my satisfaction at least, since I should be asleep

I get that not everyone may agree with me on this, so I thought I'd make it clear in chat that I believe this is a dupe of the two linked challenges. Feel free to vote otherwise if you disagree

i think the evenly chance of every char make the question unique to those you mentioned

but it should be specified in the question or else there would be loopholes

yeah i'd lean against it being a dupe but it's still woefully underspecified

i forget what our randomness defaults are but when that's 90% of the challenge there's a certain level of obligation to spell those things out

I'm really surprised that it got a lot of comments in the sandbox but no one mentioned the randomness thing

There's no default for randomness, you need to fully specify it in any case

I don't believe that it's an exact dupe of either of the two I linked, but, to me, it's a trivial combination of the two, which counts as a dupe IMO. If someone posted "take 3 numbers in as input, multiply two and add the third to the product", I'd hammer that as a dupe of the "multiply two numbers " and "add two numbers" challenges

Also, literally the most recent feedback they got in the Sandbox was "I will close this as a dupe if you post this as it is", and then they posted it as it is :/

the classic

i'd argue it's not a trivial combination of produce nondeterministic output and produce infinite output because many of the methods used for the former don't generalize to multiple random values

but it is pretty damn tclose to this

Ooh, I just realized something. The table I made for the edge cases for root are the same ones as for pow but if you took 1 / n for the top na...ohhh wait I'm dumb

In other news, if you multiply n by 1 / n, you get 1

Shocking, I know :P

Well you try doing simple math after arguing with your family for an hour straight about phone cases

God no, simple math is the worst math

As soon as you introduce numbers, everything becomes awful

Oh no, abstraction has gotten to you too. Quick, we need to quarantine caird!

Lol wat

mmmm

Looks so reputable

@RedwolfPrograms Abstraction got to me long ago :P

Hopefully it works 'cos Vyxal's using it

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ironically, I really like number theory :P

Numbers are interesting by themselves. Combine them with other bits of math, and they become the worst things you can imagine

I do all my math by rearranging a bunch of cookies like I did in Kindergarten

As we all know, the derivate of double chocolate is chocolate chip, but if you stack a sugar cookie on top, the derivative is a sugar cookie stacked on a chocolate chip cookie, adjacent to a bagel

"If C is for 'cookie', how many perfect numbers exist with exactly C prime factors?"

Things got really complicated when we started having to bring right triangular cookies for precal

> Jimmy eats six cookies an hour. He can eat fifteen cookies before getting sick. After he is sick, his medical bill is $60 per cookie, plus $200 per day spent in the hospital. The first hour of cookie eating requires one day in the hospital to fix, but due to economies of scale, every time he doubles his cookie consumption, the time he must stay in the hospital only increases by 50%. If Jimmy eats cookies for 24 hours straight after his girlfriend leaves him, how much will he owe the hospital?

@RedwolfPrograms also fwiw the links to about us and FAQ don't load

But it works and it's free

@RedwolfPrograms Sorry, could you clarify what you mean by "medical bill"?

^

Jimmy is an american, of course

Is that something we're too good healthcare to understand?

Where we have the freedom to own our own crippling medical debt

Want to go to the hospital in an ambulance? That'll be $600. (Literally. I am not joking. That is after insurance.)

Yeah I know y'ain't JoKing

What's $60 per cookie in freedoms per football fields per eagles squared?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Three bushels of gunpowder, of course.

@cairdcoinheringaahing I thought hamburgers per diabetes was a better measure

@RedwolfPrograms Oh right, one unit of "destroy the Houses of Commons"

Unfortunately, our yearly opportunity to blow up our elected officials happened a few weeks ok, so we've got to week another year to do it :/

> we've got to week another year

@Bubbler Do we? We could call it off for december ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's some weird af time manipulation you're talking about

@cairdcoinheringaahing ^

Yeah yeah, wait, not week

@emanresuA use BQN for the AoCG ez

Don't forget about the lesser known units we use, like stars per stripe and tea-crates-per-boston-harbor

It's 3am, forgive my spelling errors

The more I listen to this the better it is

That better not screw up my highly fine tuned meme recommendations

Because that video criticising SO did

Open unknown YT links in incognito like I do

But if it does impact your recommendations it's for the better :p

Maybe it'll recommend Every Snowflake is Different, which is also a total bop

@RedwolfPrograms now tell me where tf I open an incognito tab on a mobile browser that doesn't have incognito

what kinda mobile browser doesn't have incognito

Duckduckgo

if you don't have an incognito mode, how do you browse Code Review Stack Exchnage?

On my main

Besides I have stakes there

YT hasn't been showing me the red lines under video recommendations if they've been watched

It's quite annoying

But it doesn't do it on the homepage, only beside videos

lets play a round of what's in my recommendations today

any guesses?

rick astley?

Daffy Duck singing something about a car door

both wrong

any other guesses?

a video of sans singing meglovania with a kazoo?

also no

> sadly no

Fixed that for you

@lyxal Disappointed there's no "My Whole Family Thinks I'm Gay" in those Bo Burnham suggestions

@RedwolfPrograms I've found that the trick to those situations is to be gay :P

Really makes things a lot easier if they think you are, and you are :P

Did they think you were before you told them?

I never asked to be honest

I wonder if anyone actually uses 192 bit AES

(I know this has like zero relevance to the conversation lol)

To be completely honest, I'm not sure what each member of my family knows about how far away I am from cishet. I reckon there must be a couple who still think Imm 100% cishet, others who just think Imm cis and gay, and others who know Imm genderqueer

@RedwolfPrograms 192 bit AES is the most queer AES

Also, what is 192 bit AES?

AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) is an encryption algorithm. It has three variants: 128, 192, and 256 bit. Those refer to the size of the key.

So 128 bit AES is the least secure, with "just" 2^128 possible keys, 256 is more secure (useful against quantum computers), and 192 is the weird middle child

Ngl, I thought 192 wasn't divisible by 8 until I put it into a calculator :P

@RedwolfPrograms My parents weren't surprised when I came out, but they didn't say anything like "yeah, we figured"

192 is 64*3

and I somehow memorized small powers of 2 as well as those multiplied by 3

@cairdcoinheringaahing homosexuality kinda based ngl

Homosexuality is very based

Going to sleep early in preparation for AoC o/

Oh no I though today was the 28th ohshoot ohshoot ohfrick

are you okay

I need to speedrun finishing my AoC library tomorrow I guess

@hyper-neutrino This is TNB, whatcha think?

@RedwolfPrograms Imagine preparing.

(I use Vyxal's library)

Oh wait there's 30 days in november

Crisis averted

I'm so used to 0 indexing lol

I thought tomorrow was december first fricking kill me lol

(Don't actually, plz)

Anyway, ._o/

*facepalm*

@RedwolfPrograms I have news for you

^ today

timezones are fun

It starts in a day and half an hour (I think)

yes

It's at the perfect time for me

what time

i don't remember like anyone's timezone lol

6pm (anytime from 4pm to 10pm would be good but this is perfect)

ah

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/52706/…, codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/11877/…, and codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/183592/… are all duplicates of each other

well 2 of those are the same question

Oops, fixed

i'd probably consider 1 & 2 dupes but not 3

mainly since the pronounceable word one has morphemes longer than 1 char, which seems to adjust how answers approach it somewhat (not a lot but enough imo)

thanks to anime.SE i managed to run into chinese erotica and some history of the japanese porn industry from a pretty innocent-looking question. i love the internet so much

imagine watching anime

or even worse, playing an anime game like genshin impact

i would never

of course. you're a responsible person with good tastes i know

do you play any game other than minecraft

> no

> also I play roblox

@hyper-neutrino out of curiosity, are you a native japanese speaker?

nope

I am a native mandarin speaker (cannot read or write, sadly enough)

its math class now (sin,cos,tan stuff)

@hyper-neutrino ah, so just an ascended weeb. i see

ಠ_ಠ

to be fair it is pretty weeb-y to be taking a japanese course as an elective in uni

ironically i haven't even watched that much anime and the last time i watched anime was several months ago

no absolutely im gonna absolutely call you a weeb for that one homie

At what point do you go back to the weeb profile picture?

not gonna be the first, not gonna be the last

@cairdcoinheringaahing if there is popular demand, I will pick a new weeb pfp

i thought about taking one and then i realized 'aha. class costs money. duolingo free.' and also i'm never gonna use it

@emanresuA First 2 agreed, closed the first as a dupe of the second

but like, aren't there complaints about mods changing their appearance too much lmfao

@hyper-neutrino jojo pfp or bust

@Rɪᴋᴇʀ lol, fair enough

duolingo sucks tho

go all in for degenerate pfp

@hyper-neutrino I hereby demand weeb profile picture

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ok, master of the hammers

@Rɪᴋᴇʀ ok i don't want to get banned

well yeah but i mean the general concept of a free language site overall

true

@cairdcoinheringaahing If you agree (or not lol idk), star

@hyper-neutrino thus i suggest jojo for 'degen but sfw'

how is jojo degen tho

@emanresuA consider them mjolnired

i read it and i lost like. at least 10 iq points

you were simply not ready for enlightenment

Close...

ratio

Only 9 upvotes til mjolnir

isn't score like

votes, not rep

@hyper-neutrino i was too ready and i'm worried i'm becoming too close to araki. my mortal shell cannot handle his power. i am not ready for his eccentricities

@cairdcoinheringaahing ಠ_ಠ

yes votes

@hyper-neutrino I answer old questions a lot

I must say PredatorxGaming_197 is a great handle

@hyper-neutrino aka 9 code-golf upvotes

...

1000 - 901 = 9?

Yes

maths

@cairdcoinheringaahing Caird, goto sleep

i am going to get a stroke from this chatroom

i'm not sure what you're doing to average 1.6 rep per answer in [code-golf] but please do not continue if tha'ts the case!

SEE!

Fuck numbers

averaging 1.6 rep???

1.6 upvotes

that's the joke, 1.6 rep is just ridiculous. 1.6 upvotes is fine

@hyper-neutrino 1695 score, 727 answers for code-golf here

1427 / 690 for me. i've been ratio'd

> 690

nice0

> 727

insert overused osu! meme

Someone needs to make a userscript that just blanket replaces "69" with "nice" on every page :P

oh god he's truly an ascended weeb

I summon Redowlf to do so

redwolf is busy figuring out what day it is

/summon redwolf

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fun fact, I almost never get Redwolf's name correct when I type it, I always have to go back and correct it

@hyper-neutrino best of luck to them. i tried judging by the stars but apparently elon keeps adding new shiny things in the sky so i gave up on that

elon's end game is to create the "Musk" starsign. Your horoscope is always "You will tweet cringe and have a bunch of redditors worship you while you do evil shit"

out of curiosity (purely hypothetical) how many spotlights pointed at the sky would i need to completely drown out the sight of the stars at night to prevent that

assume standard avg of around ~160 lumens per light

at least 3

thank you!

no problem, happy to help :P

One, that surrounds the earth

@emanresuA /summon ~ ~ ~ irl:redwolf

(Aka reverse dyson sphere)