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4:00 PM
and the others are red, green , blue, yellow and the chosen one 2 i think
 
@PyGamer0 red, green, blue, yellow, The Second Coming
 
@AlanBagel oh
the second coming
the one at the back is harry potter (cause hes the chosen one)
 
@PyGamer0 no he's professer dumbledore
 
@AlanBagel nah hes double-door
 
@PyGamer lolol
@PyGamer0 nah he's voldemort
 
4:18 PM
is smash printing ever used in a jelly answer?
 
a few
 
What’s that? Joining on newlines?
 
joining on nothing
 
Ah
 
4:23 PM
Why call it smashing then lol
 
flattening completely
 
Needlessly violent
 
true
 
compress printing
 
@PyGamer0 interesting, no 1?
@AlanBagel implode
 
4:24 PM
My history teacher: You guys are always on your phones. Be more like Redwolf, he's _always_ paying attention.
Me: Chatting in TNB, haven't even opened my notebook
 
implode compress flatten joining smashing printing
 
@RedwolfPrograms I detect sarcasm
 
No, he just didn't realize I wasn't doing the assignments lol
 
You were literally aleays in tnb last year (and i presume this year too but i can’t get online anymore to disapprove of you while i do the same thing myself)
 
I'm in TNB the whole time I'm in school lol
Right now's calculus
 
4:26 PM
@rues wdym?
 
So was i last year during online school lol
@PyGamer0 the output has no 1
 
@rues yeah the chain starts with a nilad
which gets eaten and stored
 
Oh
 
Is Jelly a ground squirrel?
 
then comes 2 which isnt part of chain and so it is printed and it is replaces the 1
 
4:28 PM
Eating chains and storing them for winter
 
It’s stored for Dennis’s return not winter
 
Okay Ash's logarithms were sooo cursed
 
When Dennis comes back, he will use the chains to punish all bowlers
 
When Dennis comes back, he will use the strings to punish all lists of charectors.
 
4:31 PM
Dennis's language uses lists of characters tho lol
 
^ the superior way
 
Separate strings bsd
 
Separate strings save like two operators, and if you concentrate on thinking of good string operators, closer to a dozen or two
 
the superior way is called stringed charectors
 
4:32 PM
And array operators are the most valuable
 
Nah just have string digraphs
 
Noo
That's baaad
That's more bytes
A string type will only ever save bytes
(If done right)
 
Vyxal has builtins that work for strings but should work for arrays. Converting to and from is annoying
 
Vyxal does it badly then
 
@RedwolfPrograms Nah
@RedwolfPrograms Okay yeah but even a better implementation would require converting to and from
 
4:34 PM
No
A string type should be identical to arrays except for maybe a dozen operators
If you ever have to convert between them, it's because you're turning that string into an array of numbers or booleans, and that cast should be part of whatever operator you're using to do the conversion
 
But what if in the case of those dozen operators you need to apply an array thing to strings?
 
All array things should exist for strings too
 
Like transpose or regex on lists of chars
 
Except ones that don't make sense for strings
Like cumulative sum
@rues Why wouldn't those exist for strings?
 
And what should cumsum do on lists of chars?
 
4:36 PM
Nothing...it's meaningless
So it should be overloaded
 
@RedwolfPrograms No that’s what I mean, if you want to apply transpose on a string you’d have to convert to list
 
@RedwolfPrograms its not tho
prefixes
 
@rues What, why?
I'm saying, you'd have transpose as a string operator too
 
@RedwolfPrograms So why not merge lists of chars and strings and overload for that?
@RedwolfPrograms oh ok
 
Overloading for lists of only chars is just another way to say "string"
 
4:38 PM
But at some point you’d have to sacrifice something for a string specific operator
 
What do you mean
 
@RedwolfPrograms Okay then why not merge the two into a single type?
 
Because you need to have overloads
 
@RedwolfPrograms You said a dozen ops would have string-specific overloads
@RedwolfPrograms You can use digraphs for string specific stuff
 
But that's more bytes
 
4:39 PM
String stuff is a lot less conmon purside of kolmo and ascii art
 
But it's free!
Overloading is free!
Digraphs are not!
 
Ig it depends on which kinds of challenges you’re optimizing for
@RedwolfPrograms but it’s not, you need more conversions the more string-specific overloads you add. And if you have very few stribg overloads, then why have string type separate at all?
 
Because it saves bytes in a few situations for zero cost?
 
Instead of lists and chars and strings and numbers and floats and whatever else, why not just make everything strings?
 
And with the type conversion, if your strings have everything you'd need for arrays too, you don't need many casts at all, and you just build those into other operators
 
4:41 PM
@RedwolfPrograms very few situations and not zero cost
 
The cost is zero for any well designed system
I'm not arguing for bad overloading, I'm arguing for overloading
 
@AaroneousMiller the real smart way here
 
if you have a box, composed of many smaller boxes where you know the dimensions of the smaller boxes and you know the overall width of the parent container, Is there a way to determine the length of the parent rectangle, for any arrangement of the inner containers?
 
@AaroneousMiller the zsh approach
 
@pxeger The Vim approach
 
4:42 PM
@RedwolfPrograms do you have any examples of ops that would have different overloads for strings and charlists?
 
?
What do you mean
 
@Rick I'm not sure I understand the problem
 
If you have overloads for charlists, that's the same as a string
 
Like i want to get an idea of which operators would do something different for strings
 
I'm fine with those
It's unoverloaded charlists I dislike
 
4:43 PM
No i mean would + for example add strings but add codepoints for chararrs or sth
 
@rues Lowercasing [0 1 2] is meaningless. Converting [10 11 12] to title case is meaningless. Taking the cumsum of "Hi dad!" is stupid. Finding the average of "This is a string." is pointless.
@rues BTW in a golfing language, I support + casting to numbers for addition, and a separate concat op
 
Right, but you would have differebt overloads for charlists and numlists anyway, I don’t see how strings solve that
 
Separately overloaded numlists and charlists are exactly what I'm arguing for!
We're agreeing lol
A charlist with overloads is a string
Just different names for the same thing
 
I don’t understand
 
+ is addition for integers, + is string and list concanentation, etc
 
4:46 PM
Imma accept your way for now bc i need to leave lol
 
those are my views
 
@pxeger I have a box that contains many smaller elements, the dimensions of these elements can be changed by the user. When they change the dimensions of these containing elements the overall dimensions of the parent container adjust length wise. However some of the adjustments run parallel to the width, and so there is no way to determine the overall length of the container.
 
0/
 
What I'm arguing against is treating numlists and charlists the same, and having a lower case operator, for example, that also "works" on numlists and does nothing
If you have charlists with overloads where needed, that's a string. That's fine.
 
@pxeger I was hoping there might be a way to determine the length of the overall container but using a ratio
 
4:47 PM
@Rick I think I understand; and I think you're right: you can't determine the overall length in the general case
 
Should logarithms round up or down for ints?
E.g. is log2(6) 2 or 3
 
@RedwolfPrograms down
 
you could find upper and lower bounds but I think there would typically be many different possible arrangements
@RedwolfPrograms up, so that it basically gives the number of digits
 
@RedwolfPrograms Or maybe putting ^ at the end means round up and $ and the end means round down
 
@AlanBagel This is for a golfing language, logarithms are a single byte :p
 
4:49 PM
@RedwolfPrograms And maybe there is a default
 
That's actually what I'm going to do, yeah
bigint_log and round_down_bigint_log
RDBL will probably be a two byte operator
 
@RedwolfPrograms what does rdbl mean
 
Just an initialism for round_down_bigint_log
 
@RedwolfPrograms Just curious, what will the name be?
 
The operator or the language?
Not sure on either yet :p
 
4:52 PM
For the language name, how about Expanding
 
I'm probably going to make up a random string of letters and numbers for the name
I like how easy it is to google for information about 05AB1E or Vyxal
 
how about Y4E7NM0
 
Yuck no
Get that E outta here
 
Y4RT09G
 
Nope, don't like the look of that 9
 
4:55 PM
JRD8BC3
 
Are you reading license plates or something lol
 
AAAAAA
alanANDredwolf
LO84GX1
LOGUD
which one?
 
5:10 PM
@tjjfvi It's a cat
 
@DLosc Yeah, it is.
 
@DLosc (That was my guess without looking at the answer, although I wasn't 100% sure. I thought it might be a big cat of some kind.)
 
@RedwolfPrograms what was that
 
Idek, it's not spam since there's no links
Seems to just be pointless nonsense for no real reason
 
5:14 PM
Seems like a short manifesto, behind the spelling and grammar problems. I flagged as Not An Answer.
 
Ah, I went with VLQ. They both go to the same place anyway I guess.
 
I went with NAA too.
 
In a way, it almost fits the question: it is unusable as a programming language. /s
 
@DLosc oh yeah
@DLosc but can we close answers
 
@hyper-neutrino Would you mind nuking this?
@DLosc Looks more AI generated then written by a human
> then why is there other hats then white
I can't imagine a human writing something this non-sequitur-y
 
5:24 PM
@RedwolfPrograms me too
 
I tried reading this to determine if it needs a red flag and honestly I don't have a clue what it's saying so I'll just delete it normally lol.
 
@RedwolfPrograms Oh wait, they might be referring to the black-hat white-hat metaphor
So maybe written by a human, idk
 
@RedwolfPrograms I'm not an expert on AI-generated texts these days, but would an AI make a typo like "The world has com so far"? It's such a standard phrase that I would expect any AI trained on actual text to use the correct spelling.
 
@DLosc This is getting spooky
 
It might've been given text with lots of spelling mistakes as a prompt, if you look at stuff like GPT-3 the quality of the grammar depends on the prompt quite often
 
5:26 PM
Ah, okay
 
But yeah, most likely a very lost human
 
> i know that ur probly thinking this is stupid and not rite, well ur rite it is stupid.
Once you introduce spelling errors and such into the prompt, the AI will not only use the spelling errors in the prompt, but also create its own spelling errors, so I could definitely see that text being AI-generated.
 
I'm sure it's trained on lots of drunk twitter posts, so it can probably figure out a lot of spelling mistakes
 
that seems pretty likely
 
@AaroneousMiller ur mom is stupid and not rite :p
 
5:44 PM
@DLosc i haven't mom i am plat
 
@RedwolfPrograms correction: it has length-1 python strings that aren't affected at all by or error on most math builtins but can be doubled to length-2 python strings by Ḥ and cease to play nice from there
 
@Unrelated what's your new pfp
 
Well, I've finished implementating all of the number operators for my AoC library
Hmm, should ["a", "b", "c"] concat "dfg" be ["a", "b", "c", "d", "f", "g"] or "abcdfg"
 
how do you do str-to-list, can you just do [..."abcdef"]?
 
[..."abcdfg"] is what my str-to-array does yeah
What I'm mainly trying to decide is, with a string and an array, which should take precedence as the type for the output
I think I'm going to go with string, so it'd be "abcdfg"
 
6:01 PM
@RedwolfPrograms ["a", "b", "c", "dfg"]
 
Huh. So what about "abc" concat ["d", "f", "g"]?
 
@hyper-neutrino her voice actress is excellent
 
@RedwolfPrograms "abcdfg"
 
Yuck, it's not associative D:
 
Non-associative operators are the best
 
6:04 PM
Okay wait it is, it's not commutative (from a typing-only perspective) is what I mean
@cairdcoinheringaahing Well then I refuse to associate with you (ba-dum-tsh)
 
Are we operators?
 
I take code as input and ruin it
 
what is this, r6
 
6:17 PM
@RedwolfPrograms got a good language name yet?
 
No, and I don't plan to name it for a month or two :p
 
@RedwolfPrograms ["adfg", "bdfg", "cdfg"]
 
@RedwolfPrograms Let's just refer to as the LanguageOfRedWolf
 
@pxeger I'm now legally allowed to kick-mute you for that :p
 
that's actually a sensible option
 
6:28 PM
Vectorizing concat does not seem sensible under any context lol
 
@RedwolfPrograms the exact string ["a", "b", "c"] concat "dfg"
 
if it's a dedicated string concat it makes sense
 
@UnrelatedString do you have any idea how little that narrows it down :P
 
so "[\"a\", \"b\", \"c\"] concat \"dfg\"" as a string literal :P
 
@UnrelatedString Hmm, maybe. I'd still think casting to string would be a better option in that case
 
6:29 PM
if this isn't a pure golf language it probably makes more sense to just explicitly implode a list you want to string concatenate
 
It's a golfing language
Well, sort of
It's a weird mix of Ash, my AoC library, and an upcoming golfing language
 
@RedwolfPrograms whats the upcoming golfing language?
 
No details until I fully commit to it
 
16 mins ago, by Redwolf Programs
No, and I don't plan to name it for a month or two :p
@RedwolfPrograms Guess you won't be using github then for the initial dev
 
I will reveal that it will have at least one number type, a code page which is smaller than 64 bits, and a parser
 
6:35 PM
@RedwolfPrograms ...and it has a name
 
@RedwolfPrograms does it also have at least one command that takes some number of inputs, and produces an output?
 
oh
💀
 
wut
@RedwolfPrograms does it store strings as strings or a list of charectors?
 
> A with the capitalization of B
@AaroneousMiller really?
 
6:38 PM
Oh good my idiot school district has managed to block the whole internet
 
Every site is blocked
 
@RedwolfPrograms how
 
@RedwolfPrograms I take it you're here now by sending packages from your brain?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing lol
 
6:39 PM
No, my phone :p
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Vyxal builtins ftw \o/
 
At first I thought they'd finally hit chat, but luckily not
 
@RedwolfPrograms whew
 
Wow it's doing all sorts of weird stuff now
 
@RedwolfPrograms what is doing weird what
 
6:43 PM
I hope they didn't detect chat as a VPN with their new VPN blocker thing
It's supposed to shut off your internet for five minutes any time it detects one
 
@RedwolfPrograms uhhhhhhhh
@RedwolfPrograms what if it detects two at the same time
 
They dispatch an armed drone to your location at once
 
three
 
Is your school run by the CCP by any chance?
 
@AlanBagel Machine guns and poison gas
 
6:48 PM
four
 
We don't talk about four
 
They nuke you from orbit. Same applies for five or more
 
But with n additional nukes
 
@RedwolfPrograms no, it's with hyperfactorial(tree(n)) extra nukes.
 
7:01 PM
@RedwolfPrograms is this real
 
@rues Prefixes
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing That builtin has actually been around since last January, I've just never found a challenge where it applies
3 hours ago, by Aaroneous Miller
prefixes
 
7:23 PM
Hey. This is Redwolf. Can y'all hear me?
 
No, Redwolf, I can't, sorry.
4
 
Yes, it worked!
 
@RedwolfPrograms what worked
 
They've soft-blocked chat it seems
I'm sending messages by writing out the raw POST requests and sending them with the console
3
I can't watch the messages come in, I'm fairly sure it's the websocket that's causing issues
I'm going to try using tnb-track to connect to the socket, if I lose wifi for 5m that'll confirm it's the socket causing issues
 
@hyper-neutrino lol
 
7:26 PM
Ooh, it's working!
 
@RedwolfPrograms what working
 
Opening the socket in the console
So I can now sort of chat :p
 
Wait, I'm in chat normally and things seem to be fine now
 
uh-huh
 
7:30 PM
Hmm
 
@emanresuA to who? (or should it be whos there?)
 
wdym "whos"
it should be whom technically but the who/whom isn't really important (IMO) :P
 
@RedwolfPrograms does the language represent string as strings or a list of charectors
 
What's the difference?
 
@RedwolfPrograms of what and what
 
7:39 PM
Strings and lists of characters
 
idk
i mean string and char array
 
I didn't even have to send this email for them to fix chat lol
 
@RedwolfPrograms wut
 
omg now I know your real name
 
@hyper-neutrino omg
 
7:44 PM
I love the fact that the pixelation tool I used did such a bad job you can still quite clearly tell what that says
 
@RedwolfPrograms nah i cant tell
 
@RedwolfPrograms "[\"a\",\"b\",\"c\"]dfg"
Or even better, a,b,cdfg
 
My laptop's about to die D:
o/
 
@RedwolfPrograms Fool, I now know you go to [REDACTED] school, consider yourself doxxed
 
That moment when your golfing code and you realize you have 1% battery
@cairdcoinheringaahing I still have no idea what the pixilated text is.
 
7:54 PM
It says [REDACTED]
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Literally or not?
 
@RedwolfPrograms I use string-concat-to-each-list-item in Pip pretty often when golfing ASCII-art challenges. For example
 
8:21 PM
> you desalinated salmon
Imma have to steal that one
 
@AaroneousMiller lol
 
8:36 PM
is there a name for when a language instruction depends on what comes before / after
like 0 in js
 
like as a syntax thing
 
but it after 50 and it becomes 500, but it before and it becomes 40
yes kinda
 
Maybe "context-sensitive"?
But in the JavaScript example, I'd say 0 is not a separate instruction.
 
@hyper-neutrino hitagi from bakemonogatari, if you never got an answer :)
 
ah, thanks. didn't bother to look it up but yeah unrelatedstring never actually told me :P
 
8:42 PM
good show. fun fact, its where renai circulation comes from
 
@DLosc A better example would probably be Vyxal's x. Inside of a function, it calls the current function, for recursion and stuff, but outside of a function, it prints the entire stack.
 
that is indeed a better example,
thx
 

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