The Nineteenth Byte

thejonymyster

00:04

@Mayube wait, one more update cause im stupid: 54 bytes

i was basically doing "if x = true return true"

Mayube

lol nice

thejonymyster

^__^

Sandbox Posts

00:33

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Calculate Smith normal form of an integer matrix Given an \$m \times n\$ matrix of integers A, there exist a \$m \times m\$ matrix P, an \$m \times n\$ matrix D, and an \$n \times n\$ matrix Q such that: P and Q are unimodular matrices (i.e. matrices which are invertible and whose inverses are a...

emanresu A

01:26

Should codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/19355/… be closed as dupe of codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/28672/… or vice versa?

lyxal

I think the pop-con should be closed as dupe of the code-golf

but I can't VTC as dupe yet because it'll hammer it lol

hyper-neutrino

you have a popcon hammer?

lyxal

oh yeah that's right i don't

lol

vtc'd

hyper-neutrino

I feel like the former is a subset of the latter though, and they don't really intersect all that much, do they?

emanresu A

The thing is, any solution to #1 is a solution to #2

lyxal

01:35

also, the pop-con came after the code-golf

if the code-golf came after the pop-con, I'd be saying the code-golf is a dupe

emanresu A

possible duplicate of A program that deletes itself — Peter Taylor May 28 '14 at 7:04

hyper-neutrino

wait hold up I am thinking of it backwards

lyxal

also, the code-golf specifies the objective clearer than the pop-con

hyper-neutrino

yeah I can agree with this VTC

emanresu A

Then again, with operation unzalgo, we decided that the other one was a dupe because even though it was older, it was less well specifed and lower voted.

Oct 24 at 19:07, by emanresu A

Btw, is https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/119298/he-cometh-not-a-zalgo-challenge?rq=1 a dupe of https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/188472/operation-unz%cc%96%cc%ac%cc%9c%cc%ba%cc%aca%cd%87%cd%96%cc%af%cd%94%cd%89l%cc%9f%cc%adg%cd%95%cc%9d%cc%bc%cd%87%cd%93%cc%aa%cd%8do%cc%ac%cc%9d%cd%8d%cc%b9%cc%bb?noredirect=1&lq=1?

Oct 24 at 19:17, by caird coinheringaahing

Granted, totallyhuman's is the older challenge, but operation unzalgo has thhree times the score and is more comprehensive (so totallyhuman's is a subset of it IMO)

lyxal

01:39

actually, maybe the code-golf is dupe

hang on just gotta think this through noe

*now

it's my understanding that, generally speaking, a question X is a dupe of question Y if answers from question Y can be copied over to question X with little modification, with the older question getting priority for remaining open

call the code-golf X and the pop-con Y

most answers from X can be copied over to Y pretty easily

but there are answers from Y that can't be copied over to X easily

like you can't exactly copy:

2

A: Code that will only execute once

Minecraft Command Block setblock ~ ~ ~ air When you run this in a command block, it destroys itself.

over to X

but any valid answer to X can be copied over to Y

1

A: A program that deletes itself

JavaScript (ES6), 13 bytes f=_=>delete f Try It Logs the source of f, calls f (which deletes f), tries to log f again but throws an error because f is now undefined. f=_=>delete f console.log(f) f() console.log(f)

for example seems to solves both

hyper-neutrino

X is older, any valid answer to X can be copied to Y, X has a more objective specification

the argument for Y being left open is that it opens the door to other creative solutions that don't just involve deleting the source

lyxal

yeah, I think Y is the dupe

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm too confused to vote either way.

lyxal

Any answer to X (which is older) can be applied to Y, hence Y is the dupe

at least, that's how I see it

Hello, World!

02:21

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Paradoc, 15 bytes first paradoc solution lol "Hello, World!" Try it online!

Razetime

03:48

@pxeger just an explanation of a simple program like 99 bottle of beer or fizzbuzz and the golfing tricks in it.

that'll be good to get started.

I should stalk your answers to find some explanations

Redwolf Programmed

CMQ: Awful superhero names

Thomas Ward

@RedwolfProgrammed "Code Cruncher" :P

shows himself out

Razetime

@RedwolfProgrammed poo burglar

hyper-neutrino

@Razetime he said awful

Redwolf Programmed

My dad once walked past a movie theater in a foreign country and took a picture of a bunch of poorly translated movie posters. The best was "anus man".

No joke.

hyper-neutrino

03:59

bruh

emanresu A

@RedwolfProgrammed Dataman

Redwolf Programmed

Even worse would be datumman

Razetime

@RedwolfProgrammed man man

PyGamer0

16 hours ago, by PyGamer0

hyper-neutrino

why is that so saturated

PyGamer0

04:09

@hyper-neutrino taken from andriod

hyper-neutrino

ah

PyGamer0

ok time to visit cgcc

New Posts

0

Q: Find the k-th order summary of a number

Background The summary of a non-negative integer \$n\$ is the concatenation of all digits that appear in \$n\$ in increasing order, with each digit being preceded by the number of times it appears in \$n\$. Some Examples: n -> summary(n) 1221 -> 2122 (2 ones, 2 twos) 1212 ...

emanresu A

My solution to ^ starts with SUs

PyGamer0

@emanresuA sus

emanresu A

04:15

Wait no it doesn't anymore :(

PyGamer0

@emanresuA no sus :(

hyper-neutrino

huh

won the ninja by under 5 seconds, but lost by a byte

caird coinheringaahing

was that a one second ninja? :P

PyGamer0

caird and hyper answered at the same time

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing your solutions fails for 888888888888, 2

caird coinheringaahing

04:17

4:16:23 and 4:16:25, wow

PyGamer0

also i got my gold badge yoo

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Fixed

Ṣ auto-casts to digits

Redwolf Programmed

@PyGamer0 Nice!

hyper-neutrino

since when did sort do that???

caird coinheringaahing

Since always :P

hyper-neutrino

04:18

oh well, can't golf my answer so I'll just delete it :P

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino @cairdcoinheringaahing Well ya both lost to Vyxal :p

If it was just summary I'd have 4 bytes with a flag

hyper-neutrino

oh you used strings

i had 9 (although it's 8 if I just don't close the foor loop)

caird coinheringaahing

Why are you summing?

hyper-neutrino

strings

thejonymyster

@Mayube ok i wasnt going to keep bothering you about random golfs me n friends made but someone just found this which blows it out of the water: i={input};o=sort(i[i>total(i)])[1]

hyper-neutrino

04:22

welp i've been beaten by one byte on two languages in a row

thejonymyster

or rlly just the o=sort(i[i>total(i)])[1] part matters

hyper-neutrino

anyone want to make that a third? I'll even give away the language i'm using - python

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing The only difference between our answers is that Jelly has slightly more boilerplate for repetition.

caird coinheringaahing

And that mine doesn't actually work :P

Fixing it now, dw :P

emanresu A

?

hyper-neutrino

04:25

what

oh wait i'm stupid

of course this fails

emanresu A

You edited your python answer into your jelly answer?

hyper-neutrino

yes

caird coinheringaahing

Got to love base 10 conversion :/

hyper-neutrino

also emanresu yours is not quite the same as caird's

because caird's error does not extend to yours :P

emanresu A

It's probably simpler to go with exec(... * k)

caird coinheringaahing

04:27

It's kinda annoying that V doesn't auto-flatten tbh

lyxal

@PyGamer0 well done!

hyper-neutrino

@emanresuA how would you do that

i have tio.run/… but i don't think this is how you're supposed to do it

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ or maybe not

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino 91 bytes in Python 2, as exec is weird with functions

hyper-neutrino

ah

woo, 13 byte save translating into proton

caird coinheringaahing

04:31

Proton, combining the golfiest bits of JS and Python :P

hyper-neutrino

and combining the most cursed parts of both and adding more cursedness

emanresu A

I have this weird idea in JS which might beat it

hyper-neutrino

@emanresuA did this to avoid the clutter of the deleted post

emanresu A

O

I had this nice idea of f.entries().flat().join`` but it doesn't work :(

DLosc

04:54

@RedwolfProgrammed @Mayube Found an example in the wild!

emanresu A

06:04

To whoever VTC'd codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/236912/…, I've cleaned up the question and made it make more sense.

emanresu A

06:56

Free review

Oh wait nvm

pxeger

07:39

> Using the \ prefix, it's possible to create variables that do not have a sigil

I dunno Raku, that sounds like a sigil to me

docs.raku.org/language/variables#Sigilless_variables

emanresu A

08:01

ಠ_ಠ

lyxal

08:20

@emanresuA nerd

emanresu A

why

lyxal

Notice the comment I left to prove a point

You're just bad if you can't comment :p

emanresu A

I think it happened because delete+edit+undelete+edit

Might also have something to do with hyper == mod

lyxal

Does it still happen?

emanresu A

no

lyxal

08:22

Aw dang

emanresu A

shouldiblamecaching.com

when I reloaded, it was fine

lyxal

Dang it

emanresu A

Also you might want to delete the comment

lyxal

Tempted not to

But I've

emanresu A

Wait hyper can see deleeted comments

emanresu A

08:47

It'd be nice if copilot could actually look at modules you're importing as well as the script you're working on

Anush

CMQ how can I find the answer with the highest votes that contains the word Knuth?

Razetime

SEDE query, likely.

emanresu A

09:02

@Anush By asking me. codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/18028/…

(codegolf.stackexchange.com/…)

Anush

09:12

Cool! Can you do the same thing for stackoverflow please

emanresu A

stackoverflow.com/questions/2450954/… in a link, stackoverflow.com/questions/1711/… mentioning the person.

Anush

Thank you!

How did you search in answers only?

Razetime

is:answer tag

just put is:answer Don Knuth

then sort by votes

pxeger

or just is:a

Razetime

dammit, outgolfed on a stack exchange search

4

pxeger

09:21

@Razetime here is an answer that I think showcases a good variety of golfing techniques, and has a pretty detailed explanation

Razetime

thank you

oh neat, zsh has an eval command

emanresu A

@pxeger Which reminds me, I need to golf my Vyxal on that

Anush

@Razetime thanks!

@Razetime :)

@emanresuA where is your vyxal answer to my challenge?

emanresu A

Which one?

Anush

The currently bountied one

emanresu A

09:36

Haven't done one and not planning to - Too complex and I'm lazy :P

Anush

:(

lyxal

09:52

@emanresuA one day

Some day it'll take other open files into consideration

PyGamer0

and then it will read the one file which holds all of your passwords and .....

pxeger

why would you have a file containing all your passwords unencrypted

that is a horrible idea

lyxal

10:12

Use bitwarden like hyper and I

emanresu A

When november 6 fireworks

pxeger

@lyxal keepassxc is the best

Bubbler

Be real pro and use 3 different variations of one password all over the place and forget which one was which and do password recovery all the time :P

pxeger

that's terrible lol

Manny Queen

11:15

@Bubbler why are you calling me out like this

caird coinheringaahing

12:12

@Bubbler Real security experts use 5 different variations :P

PyGamer0

12:24

@cairdcoinheringaahing real gamers use hashes of their names + website name :P

caird coinheringaahing

Real gamers exclusively use websites that store their one password in plaintext :P

PyGamer0

no, real gamers dont have passwords :P

they use throwaway accounts

user

12:40

@pxeger My Parents do exactly thos lol

lyxal

12:55

@pxeger don't have a digital file, just write them on paper like I used to do way back when

pxeger

writing your passwords on paper is actually not a terrible idea tbh, as long as you keep the piece of paper somewhere slightly private

like not on a sticky note on the side of your monitor in a shared office, but in your wallet or something

lyxal

My password book was kept hidden away in a draw.

Bubbler

13:22

@pxeger I literally have the former, but using Sticky Notes (the Windows app) instead :P

pxeger

that's worse, because it doesn't require physical access

that's the same as having a plain text file

Why is TNB so empty? Only 9 users

user

14:33

@pxeger only 1

It’s a Saturday

@pxeger But what if it falls out pr a pickpocket takes it?

pxeger

that's why you have backups

user

No I mean someone else could get important passwsds rheb

pxeger

you're probably not being targeted specifically, so it probably won't be a problem

you can just change them all

unless you have particular reason to fear the government and/or the mafia, you won't be targeted specifically, which is the only way a pickpocket would do anything

hacking is in most cases an opportunistic crime

@pxeger (or, if you're the CEO of Sony Pictures, for example; then you might also be targeted more specifically)

user

@pxeger petty acquaintances might target you :p

@pxeger Indeed I am, how did you know?!

2

PyGamer0

15:17

@user ofc jokes 101?

Fmbalbuena

17:03

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hey i found a bug in my program

Try it online!

Redwolf Programmed

My cat really likes to sleep on my backpack lol

2

caird coinheringaahing

17:56

@Fmbalbuena If you want to iterate over the elements of a list, you need to use E (each) instead of F (for): Try it online!

Fmbalbuena

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh sorry

emanresu A

@RedwolfProgrammed TNB out of context be like

Is a "Will 1-cell brainfuck halt" question answerable?

Redwolf Programmed

I think so

Pretty sure it's 2 cells for turing completeness

pxeger

18:13

Pretty sure any finite number of cells can be halting-problem-ed

emanresu A

3-cell with unbounded integers is TC, I know.

Redwolf Programmed

@pxeger Only if they hold finite sized integers

pxeger

oh

I forgot about that, I was thinking 8-bit-per-cell

Fmbalbuena

@cairdcoinheringaahing hey i found a soluiton to prevent this

emanresu A

@pxeger That means you can determine whether any program will halt, in any language, because it has finite memory.

user

18:44

@RedwolfProgrammed Wait, isn't bf always 8-bit wrapping integers?

Redwolf Programmed

No

user

Oh

Redwolf Programmed

It's totally undefined, 8-bit is just one of the most common

It's pretty rare to see other finite sizes, but I'll see bigints pretty often too

user

Interesting, does the original language also not define the tape size and stuff?

Redwolf Programmed

It's also undefined IIRC, along with EOF

30k is what a lot of implementations use, but there's also wrapping vs. erroring, and infinite tapes

I think the first implementation was 30k 8-bit cells, but since BF is generally considered TC, that's obviously just an implementation requirement for whatever it was written on

Fmbalbuena

18:48

@RedwolfProgrammed Yes you're right

user

Odd, I would've expected it to be (lazily) infinite by default

No need to restrict yourself to 30k if the user wants more cells and has the resources for it

Redwolf Programmed

I hate when people just post a "brainfuck interpreter" without clarifying things like cell size, tape size, or EOF behavior

user

That said, bf is bf, not a practical language :P

Redwolf Programmed

@RedwolfProgrammed Especially on online interpreters

Where it should definitely be in some sort of options menu

user

@RedwolfProgrammed Is that always needed? (I can see cell size mattering, but tape size and EOF shouldn't matter to most non-abusive programs, right?)

pxeger

18:49

@emanresuA yeah, just basically interpret it and detect if the interpreter ever gets in the same state twice, which indicates an infinite loop

Redwolf Programmed

@user EOF is pretty important. Knowing if you'll need to handle 0 or -1 or no change makes a lot of things different

user

Oh, for input?

Redwolf Programmed

E.g. trying to handle -1 the way you would for 0 would cause an infinite look

@user Yeah

Fmbalbuena

@RedwolfProgrammed while loops is for 0 but rarely less or equal to 0

Redwolf Programmed

Ooh, that's a variation I haven't heard of before.

user

18:57

I applied to a college, never got any spam from them before, got accepted, and now they send me an email every single day ಠ_ಠ

I've literally already applied, why do you keep giving me the link to your application?

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Consider all arrays of \$\ell\$ non-negative integers in the range \$0,\dots,m\$. The challenge is to work out how many sum to exactly \$s\$. For \$m=7, \ell = 8\$ the answers for \$s=1 \dots 25\$ the answers are \$1, 8, 36, 120, 330, 792, 1716, 3424, 6371, 11152, 18488, 29184, 44052, 63792, 888...

Anush

what's the right way to discourage brute force answers?

user

restricted-complexity is one way to do it (I think)

Anush

@user sometimes I notice codegolf questions just say that all answers have to finish in a reasonable amount of time

or 1 minute on TIO?

user

TIO's not exactly the gold standard for timing

Anush

19:06

right

@pxeger hi

pxeger

@user maybe I should make more reliable timing a feature of ATO

I don't know how feasible that will be though

Anush

normally people say that the timing of TIO is ok to just say the code should be reasonably fast

but not good enough for timing for fastest-code

I could go restricted-complexity

what do you think @pxeger ?

user

@pxeger Best not make a kitchen sink of ATO

Besides, that would depend on the specific machine your server uses, which is still not great if you have code that runs better on a specific architecture

Anush

what is ATO?

pxeger

@Anush I worry calculating it directly will involve a lot of factorials and therefore not be very easy to get a reliable bound on the complexity

@Anush ato.pxeger.com

Anush

19:15

@pxeger maybe just a restriction that is polynomial in the three variables?

pxeger

@user yeah on second thoughts I don't think it's possible

Anush

so not a precise restriction

pxeger

mm ok

Anush

cool. I think I will go for that

user

Odd, I had cookies set to be instantly deleted on ATO and it didn't let me execute my code until I set them to be deleted after leaving ATO

Anush

19:16

@user that's ok isn't it? I mean normally in my fastest-codes the code is run on my home PC.

user

@Anush I meant that it means ATO doesn't have to have that feature

pxeger

@user weird; I'm pretty sure ATO should work fine without cookies

emanresu A

Maybe there are some in the server request

user

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Crazy things have been happening to me since yesterday

Anush

@user but it would be so great if fastest-code could be timed on a publicly accesible server

Sandbox Posts

19:18

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Will one-cell brainfuck halt? Brainfuck is an esoteric programming language that is Turing Complete, meaning you can't tell whether a given program will halt without running it. It's cell-based and has an infinite tape of cells, values containing an unsigned integer from 0 to 255, but if you give...

user

@pxeger nvm, it's working now 😕

pxeger

huh lol

were you using a work or school proxy? maybe that could have interfered with it?

user

Nope, I'm on my home computer

pxeger

no idea then

Anush

ok I think my draft is reviewable now

user

19:19

Maybe it somehow thought I'd already clicked Execute because my laptop's been acting up

Or maybe I'm going insane again

Anush

I won't post it until tomorrow so I will only get slightly told off :)

user

You just put it in the Sandbox today, didn't you?

Calling people buckaroo feels weird

Anush

@user yes

pxeger

does "polynomial time in the three variables" mean it's of the form x*M^a*L^b*S*^c + y*M^d*L^e*S^c + ...?

Anush

m^a*l^b*s^c for any three numbers a, b, c

pxeger

19:24

oh ok

Anush

I will clarify...

done

@pxeger anything else unclear?

pxeger

wouldn't hurt to give an explantion for one of them, e.g. why there are 36 lists that sum to 3 for m=6,l=8

or just list those 36 lists

(or maybe for a smaller case to make it more digestable)

Anush

I am on it

@pxeger done

pxeger

19:42

looks ok then

Anush

cool. And thanks for the edit and the advice

pxeger

@Anush please keep it in for several days, just to get a good number of sets of eyes on it

Anush

I will try :)

emanresu A

Do or do not, there is no try

Anush

19:59

@emanresuA :) I fear I may be in do not

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