The Nineteenth Byte

Bubbler

00:50

I guess it's worth mentioning here because (IMO) the CGCC community has been heavily inspired by APL family languages:

4

in the k tree, 8 hours ago, by ngn

Roger Hui (1953 - 2021)

Also the original article and HN link

caird coinheringaahing

01:16

CMQ (inspired by a couple of recent events for me): A challenge poster accepts your answer. You notice the reputation change. What's your reaction?

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing heck yeah very cool get gamed on nerds

caird coinheringaahing

Wow, why does lyxal's answer not surprise me? :P

@DLosc How goes the blog post write up?

@Bubbler Given the post about Glenn Randers-Pehrson, a Rest In Piece post might very well be on topic for meta

ATaco

03:01

Had a horrifying moment we’re I was writing in my esolang and realised that I had no support for JSON, but needed to parse it anyway

“Do I implement a JSON library in the language itself, and use C#’s built in library, or do I write a JSON library in the language itself…”

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

@ATaco i think it's time to implement a simple recursive descent parser lol, i think there are a lot of implementations on the internet and they are decently simple...

but implementing it in an esolang? difficult, but doable

ATaco

Chose to implement a parser as my solution. Given the language is designed with practicality in mind, it wasn’t too hard

I was impressed with how simply JSON is defined, nothing like parsing XML

Bubbler

JSON is pretty clean grammar-wise

XML has... no grammar at all

ATaco

Trying to parse XML is liable to summon Z̴̠̮̓ą̴̻͈̇l̴̘̑ǧ̷̦͊ö̶̟̣͖́̓͘

lyxal

just run it through an XSLT stylesheet that formats it nicely /s

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

03:50

lol

Redwolf Programs

04:06

So...a church near my house likes to put the topic of the sermon for the next week on a sign outside. I know they have a limited number of those little letter tiles they can fit on the sign, but "eternal peace next sunday" could really use some rewording.

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

lol

lyxal

04:33

Y'all ever just used an autoclicker to be a cookie clicker tryhard?

thejonymyster

dont they come with the game

PyGamer0

@lyxal didnt code bullet do that?

lyxal

@thejonymyster No no I mean an external autoclicker

Like an overlay that taps once every 10ms

thejonymyster

ik im just saying it seems redundant

hyper-neutrino

nah i just typed stuff into the console lol

lyxal

04:34

@PyGamer0 idk

@hyper-neutrino now tell me how tf imma type stuff into a console on the mobile app

hyper-neutrino

skill

i wouldn't be able to tell you how to autoclick on mobile either

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino adb?

Bubbler

How to autoclick on a mobile app: run it on bluestacks and run any autoclicker on your pc

lyxal

There's an app for that

Bubbler

No rooted or anything?

PyGamer0

04:37

why you think people use autoclickers: they want to hack and win
why they actually use autoclickers: they don't want carpel tunneling

lyxal

@Bubbler Unrooted, download from the play store

Redwolf Programs

Wh...what is this ad

Unrelated String

oh no

Redwolf Programs

lyxal

@Bubbler here

Unrelated String

04:38

uh

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms D&D for furries probably

ATaco

You'll find a remarkable overlap between D&D and Furries as it is.

Unrelated String

it took me way too long to figure out that the thing above and to the left of the uwu is an upside down 14 in an ornate font and not a chinese character

Redwolf Programs

Okay I clicked it out of pure curiosity and it's just a site selling ordinary D&D dice

Unrelated String

lmao

lyxal

04:41

The real question is whether caird has it in their dice collection

Unrelated String

imagine owning things

2

PyGamer0

@UnrelatedString imagine imagining owning things

lyxal

@PyGamer0 imagine imagining anything really

Unrelated String

i used to genuinely be proud of not having things but now i've started actually wanting things sometimes and i can't process those feelings

Redwolf Programs

lyxal aphasia confirmed?

lyxal

04:47

@UnrelatedString duh, of course you can't. How tf you gonna juice feelings? /s

Unrelated String

feelings are like avocadoes

lyxal

You try for thirtee minut and no juic?

Unrelated String

no juic :(

PyGamer0

@user that would be very good

lyxal

😭

(me when no juic)

PyGamer0

04:51

my brother got this game called gravity maze

it looks eh decent but it is very costly

(he was asking for it for the past 2 years oof)

CMQ: Have you watched harry potter?

hyper-neutrino

yes though i can't remember if i watched them all or just some of them

ATaco

Yeah

lyxal

2

PyGamer0

it counts if you have watched only 1 second

lyxal

@PyGamer0 yesnt

PyGamer0

04:56

@lyxal O juic??

lyxal

@PyGamer0 0 juic

(image transcription: me when when 0 juic)

emanresu A

Helol

lyxal

7

emanresu A

How long did you take to make that?

Redwolf Programs

:o You can't just doxx me like that

lyxal

05:06

@emanresuA not very long lol

emanresu A

Me when winning skywars 2v2v1 as the 1

That was very flukey

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms get gamed on

emanresu A

^

lyxal

Redwolf got caught in 4k

PyGamer0

@emanresuA bruh i won bedwars 1v4v4v4 when i was the 1

emanresu A

05:17

Impressive

Did you has egg?

and how many kills?

hyper-neutrino

since when did bedwars have eggs, or is this not hypixel

emanresu A

( I mean bed)

(Used to playing eggwars)

PyGamer0

@emanresuA 3 beds

i think

maybe 2

emanresu A

Wdym?

PyGamer0

@emanresuA idk it was like 4 months ago

emanresu A

05:20

Did you have a bed, how many people did yo ukill?

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino no this is nethergames

@emanresuA i lost the bed when 2 teams were remaining

wait i lost that match

oof

i meant a 4v4v1 where i was the 1

Bubbler

06:13

Feedback?

New Posts

0

Q: Pythagorean triples given the hypotenuse

Definition (from Wikipedia) A Pythagorean triple consists of three positive integers a, b, and c, such that a² + b² = c². The typical example of a Pythagorean triple is (3,4,5): 3² + 4² = 9 + 16 = 25 which is 5² Task: Given an integer number c, write a program or function that returns the list of...

code-golf

Unrelated String

06:41

@PyGamer0 i've probably seen like half of one of the movies? did read the books though

lyxal

07:26

:o finally I'm on the frequently in room list for TNB

Very cool

Bubbler

07:44

a jelly-er doing vyxal for the first time

haha all vyxalers get rekt

emanresu A

...

Nice job

lyxal

@Bubbler no u buckaroo

Bubbler

Just saw that, nice golf

lyxal

Luckily order doesn't matter

Otherwise that wouldn't work

emanresu A

08:00

... I wish zip worked, then I'd have a 9-byter

Btw I don't know Jelly enough for this, but could Ƥ (with niladic argument) help with this?\

Bubbler

Jelly and Vyxal nicely tied at 10, beating the common enemy 05AB1E

5

@emanresuA I doubt it would win over ṡJ

Probably it won't work at all

emanresu A

That explains why I was having trouble

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

lol bubbler is clearly a god

bubbler can golf everything!

emanresu A

08:20

-30 user was removed yesterday

Did anyone else get something like that?

emanresu A

08:33

Why, SE. This is one thing we do not need.

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

08:46

@emanresuA lol. i guess people need to put food on the table

we do not need but stack exchange is so desperate

Neil

09:28

@cairdcoinheringaahing I upvote the challenge. (But if the accept is later retracted, I attempt to retract my upvote.)

Anush

hi all

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

09:47

lol

@Anush what's up

what's down what's left what's right

☝️👇👈👉

lyxal

10:03

@emanresuA what's funnier is that it's just an empty page

@Neil attempt? Just edit the challenge and then change your vote ez /s

pxeger

bug plurals

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

10:36

@pxeger hmm i think it's grammatical actually. "collectives" here is a name and a singular verb can follow that name

pxeger

it may technically be, but it looks stupid nonetheless and would make much more sense to be pluralised

"What is Stack Overflow Collectives" might be better but even that sounds wrong to me

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

yeah

oh dear, it seems that stack exchange sometimes blocks vpns... so sometimes I can't send messages with my vpn on

I'm convinced that stack exchange is short on engineering resources now

there's so many bugs

m90

12:50

@emanresuA I had -10.

Aaroneous Miller

^ same

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal UwU I do not

Not being a furry and all :P

Redwolf Programs

13:44

Lol we have a big test in World History on a monday morning and my whole class is freaking out

But gtg o/

thejonymyster

gl

hope you r'member the things :)

Redwolf Programs

14:19

Done

It was a somewhat difficult test, my guess is I'll get a 90

Luckily there's a thing you can do for 10 points extra credit on it

thejonymyster

>:) love that

whats the thing

in case i have to take the test

Redwolf Programs

Not sure, I haven't checked yet

But I know it exists. Once I open the box I can find out if it's alive or dead but it's both at once until then.

2

thejonymyster

incroyabl'

i was never good at history. correct me if im wrong, but you really just have to memorize everything for tests, right?

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster yes

thejonymyster

with math you learn a skill / system, but history is just a sequence of events

math just being a rando example

PyGamer0

14:29

@thejonymyster i just try to memorize everything

thejonymyster

in math or history?

PyGamer0

in history

caird coinheringaahing

The problem with history is that you know the outcome before you even learn it: everyone dies at the end

thejonymyster

yea, which sucks if you (general) dont have a good memory

PyGamer0

how would i memorize in math lol

thejonymyster

14:30

lol

lol to the both of you

lol to every last one of yas

trying not to rant abt education system now that i reminded myself of the topic

PyGamer0

althought you have to memorise some basic equations

thejonymyster

i rerationalize them from scratch every time

Redwolf Programs

Yes very unsketch please sign me up

One of the many legitimate businesses who use all caps and can only be contacted via WhatsApp and Skype

thejonymyster

all caps when you spell the brand name

is it bad etiquette to share major sandbox edits here as soon as theyre made? i love being annoying but i dont want to bother anyone :)

Redwolf Programs

Do you mean asking for feedback on them?

caird coinheringaahing

14:37

If you want to get feedback on a Sandbox challenge, feel free to ask in here

Redwolf Programs

^

caird coinheringaahing

So long as it isn't done excessively, it's perfectly on topic here

thejonymyster

yea exactly lol

oh ok ^_^

Here is the link :) Any feedback?

originally it was a dupe by accident, so i flipped the challenge backways

Redwolf Programs

That looks like a cool challenge!

caird coinheringaahing

Although it's recommended to use something like [Any feedback?](link) rather than just the raw link, to avoid large one-boxing (like ^^) :P

Redwolf Programs

14:39

I usually do Any feedback on [challenge name](link)?, which has the advantages of both

thejonymyster

fixed, still had edit time

oh oops

well, next time

Redwolf Programs

It doesn't really matter what format you use, no worries :p

caird coinheringaahing

@thejonymyster I'd suggest using something other than FALSE in the test cases, as I thought that was the actual output, rather than indicating a falsey value

Maybe 0?

Redwolf Programs

Or [falsy]

thejonymyster

ah, good idea

PyGamer0

14:41

CMQ: What should the function composition of a unary function and 2 binary functions be?

thejonymyster

hang on, gotta google "function composition"

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 Why are you composing those functions?

cause the answer is basically "whatever makes sense for your usage"

PyGamer0

@cairdcoinheringaahing which is most useful in a general case

Redwolf Programs

I don't see any ways of doing it that immediately jump out as the best, though. Probably just figure out a consistent rule for ones with higher arities/numbers of functions and use that

Sort of like chaining rules

caird coinheringaahing

f(h(g(x, y)), h(g(x, y))) :P

The problem tbh is the second binary function

thejonymyster

14:44

agree, if it was just one, both orderings would make plenty of sense

Redwolf Programs

If it was one binary and two unary there'd be an obvious way to do it, but with two binary it's just kinda weird

caird coinheringaahing

1 unary and 1 binary have a couple of obvious approaches, but 1 unary, 2 binary is just weird

thejonymyster

seems we all agree

Redwolf Programs

Maybe f(g(x, y), h(x)) or something?

thejonymyster

i guess thats why the question is the way it is, or thered be no question

Redwolf Programs

14:44

Or f(g(x, y), h(g(x, y)))

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 Have the second binary function distribute over the first, then apply the unary function

PyGamer0

@cairdcoinheringaahing ?????????

caird coinheringaahing

h(f(x, g(y, z)) = h(f(g(x, y), g(x, z)))

@emanresuA [status-planned] to be removed

Wezl

15:06

@lyxal looks like pinocchio

Aaroneous Miller

@RedwolfPrograms Do codegolf with Vyxal. The Hivemind decrees it.

user

I confirm this

Redwolf Programs

15:23

CMC: Make a somewhat golf-oriented language with a two bit code page.

Brownie points if it's TC

hyper-neutrino

jelly but each command is four characters

Redwolf Programs

lol

thejonymyster

code page? im noob

Redwolf Programs

Basically you have four commands and they're two bits each

thejonymyster

ah

Aaroneous Miller

15:35

Why not just keep the normal 256 command codepage, but have each command be 2 bits instead of an entire byte? That seems much more efficient. /s

thejonymyster

something something hq9+

caird coinheringaahing

15:51

@RedwolfPrograms given the existence of OISCs, that should be fairly alright

user

@RedwolfPrograms JSFuck

Redwolf Programs

I'd question "somewhat golf oriented" given that even getting something to run at all is a few hundred bytes, and all constants are multiple bytes each :p

Wezl

hyper-neutrino's language is the best solution

Redwolf Programs

I think I have a good one

pxeger

I've got one (and I'm implementing it atm)

Redwolf Programs

16:00

It'll be similar to Risky, but I'm thinking about changing up the way the adicities are determined

Instead of dividing in half, I'll do thirds

pxeger

I've got 3 commands: push literal integer, repeat + eval, subtract, and I need one more

I've already got implicit input and output

Redwolf Programs

Interesting

Mine's just Risky but Riskier :p

And with better built-in choices

Not that I have many to work with :p

thejonymyster

@RedwolfPrograms well theres your name

pxeger

I know, I'll add a second stack

no, that's boring

Redwolf Programs

26 unique operators in two bits seems pretty good

thejonymyster

16:03

@pxeger comment

pxeger

maybe reverse the stack?

thejonymyster

maybe try doing something with the three you have

and then see what you wish you also had the most

pxeger

@thejonymyster it's not gonna be golf oriented if that many of its programs are redundant

(I can't do maths today)

thejonymyster

aw the math was the best part

pxeger

it was wrong though

thejonymyster

16:06

rats

pxeger

lol

DLosc

16:32

@RedwolfPrograms I definitely read that as "acidities"

thejonymyster

make sure the pH of your program is balanced

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms I wonder if this paradigm could work.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Haven't worked on it yet--I've been up to my eyeballs in implementing a new language recently.

pxeger

16:54

@DLosc ooh shiny, what new language?

DLosc

@pxeger A golfing Lisp with a Risky-inspired half-byte codepage

(Which will probably, like Risky, be somewhat golfy for some challenges but ultimately not be able to compete with Jelly et al)

pxeger

given that Risky (4-bit codepage) can't really compete with Jelly (8-bit codepage), I propose:

Redwolf Programs

Finished implementing my idea

pxeger

CMconjecture: golfing languages with codepages of more than 8 bits might be good

Redwolf Programs

Yes

That's guaranteed to be true

You can make more common operations use fewer bits than doing them by hand

E.g., with Risky, taking the cumulativ sum of an array takes quite a few operations. But in an 8-bit code page, you can afford to make that shorter.

At the cost of things like "factors of the sum of two numbers" which are built from a few simpler operations costing more

pxeger

17:02

but clearly, this wouldn't hold for a 100-bit code page

so there must be some optimum

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger That's just because it's impractically large though

hyper-neutrino

well it's a balance of making longer programs shorter and making short programs too long

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms For most of our challenges

pxeger

@RedwolfPrograms well, and because all programs must now be at least 13 bytes

Redwolf Programs

For a really really complicated program it'd be much more optimal than 8-bit

pxeger

17:03

which means it loses to jelly by default 90% of the time

Redwolf Programs

But for anything usually lower than 100 bits it's a waste

hyper-neutrino

i feel like somewhere around 9 to 10 might be optimal - a lot of languages have digraphs but don't end up using the full digraph space

so you could probably pack all of those commands into 9-10 bits

Redwolf Programs

10 bit it probably close to optimal, although if you're using weird operator sizes you might as well use huffman coding

Introducing Ultrarisky, a language with a 2-bit code page

It fits 26 overloads into that, so not bad

It uses a slightly different set of parsing rules from normal Risky

Anything with 3x+1 bytes it parsed into thirds, with the left third and the two right thirds being the arguments to a dyad in the center of those

Anything else has one to two monads before it

And a single operator is of course a nilad

pxeger

with 4 digraph introducers, you have room for 1276 commands

Redwolf Programs

That's not how Riskylike parsing works

You get so many overloads because of the weird parsing rules, which you'd have to get rid of (or modify heavily) to add digraphs

pxeger

17:11

@pxeger @RedwolfPrograms this was for a "standard" 8-bit language (Jelly, Vyxal, etc.)

Redwolf Programs

Oh lol

pxeger

I was gonna say "...but you definitely don't need that many" which would make my message make more sense but I got distracted lol

Redwolf Programs

Added comments under the gist for ultrarisky with documentation

pxeger

so I reckon 9 bits is sufficient

Redwolf Programs

Sample program: I02I (subtraction)

DLosc

17:13

@RedwolfPrograms Meaning abcdefg would be ab c defg?

thejonymyster

is there any way to concretely state the problem or is "golfiness" not quantifiable

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Yes

 I  Input
  0 Add
 2  Negate
I   Input

DLosc

Okay. I would phrase that as "with the left third and the right two-thirds being the arguments"

Redwolf Programs

Probably a better way to phrase it yeah

DLosc

I was confused at first as to how one dyad could be in the center of three different sections

thejonymyster

17:15

triangular arrangement

Redwolf Programs

One issue with ultrarisky is that I had to drop the identity operators for golfiness, which might actually make some stuff basically impossible

And padding it to a whole number of bytes will change the meaning of the program

pxeger

just typo'd git innnit and I have to say git is not very down with the kids

Redwolf Programs

E.g. a multiplication program would have to be 2II2I, which overflows into a second byte despite multiplication being just two bits

DLosc

@pxeger Well, it's git, innit?

Redwolf Programs

I know Ultrarisky isn't turing complete, unfortunately, because it has no looping other than for and reduce over finite lists

If anyone can write a nontrivial and interesting program in ultrarisky I'll probably give them a bounty :p

DLosc

17:24

I feel like you could maybe replace negate with something more useful if you replaced add with subtract. Also not sure how useful square and abs are, since I think you could implement them using multiply and compare. But I haven't tried the language to see how the parsing affects things yet.

Redwolf Programs

Since golfiness was intended to be a concern, I wanted to avoid the mistake I'd made with Risky (having too many pretty specific operations, while generally useful stuff required reimplementing)

DLosc

Fair

I was about to mention the lack of division and modulo operators, but then I realized you can use base conversion for those, right?

Redwolf Programs

Hopefully

I figured multiplication was more useful than division, and didn't have room for both

Redwolf Programs

17:57

I just thought of a concept for a really awful esolang

1-bit codepage, lots of data types. 0 shifts the datatype by 1, 1 is an operation that depends on the data type

thejonymyster

make sure to include a lot of novelty datatypes

i rlly like that idea btw :)

New Posts

18:39

0

Q: Is This Scrabble Board Valid?

Background Scrabble is a word game in which players collaboratively build a board consisting of letter tiles that spell words. Each word must be connected to another word, and players gain points based on the letters they use and where they are placed. Words can be spelled either from left-to-rig...

code-golf decision-problem game

Unrelated String

you just have like five different list types that you cycle through

and 20 integers

thejonymyster

are trees covered in those five

Bubbler

Haskell has something close. Sum is number but with monoid operation being +, and Product is the same with *

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms Whirl

Redwolf Programs

19:15

Oh neat

pxeger

20:04

@RedwolfPrograms github.com/pxeger/2bcmc

Redwolf Programs

Latin class today has been interesting so far

The whole class is now on the same page about the impossibility of doing any of our work, and we've scheduled a meeting with a bunch of people

Unrelated String

nice

thejonymyster

that kind of rules

@pxeger which commands represent which digit in the base-3 number?

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger Looks cool!

thejonymyster

(imo you should include that info in the docu because its nice not to have to guess/backread for it)

also nice, bijective base 4

Redwolf Programs

20:51

Aaroneous Miller

What if I don't want to know why?

thejonymyster

21:15

that is a poorly formatted flowchart :rage: :rage: :rage:

Redwolf Programs

21:46

it is a poorly formatted class

3

user

21:58

@pxeger I think variable length encodings could be really great, but when you go that much into it, golfing kinda loses its fun

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