The Nineteenth Byte

DLosc

00:02

@Razetime uses BQN a lot, I believe

Welcome to the fourth Learn You A Lang For Great Good event! Today's language is BQN, a recent addition to the APL family. For this event, feel free to ask about BQN, post CMCs to solve in BQN, and anything else related to the language. You can run BQN code online here.

5

Wezl

:O did email notifications actually help for once?

user

00:18

Most important question: Bee Queue En, Bacon, or something else?

Nice, the BQN site actually has tutorials

DLosc

> You can pronounce it "bacon", but are advised to avoid this unless there's puns.

CMC: Implement factorial in BQN.

Wezl

the B, Q, and N are silent

iguestiotation

except it can be pronounced totally differently if you expand the acronym differently

or how about the Q and N are silent and you pronounce the B like BQN

factorial

DLosc

@Wezl Exactly what I came up with (except I hadn't put it in a function)

user

Huh, I expected it to have a factorial builtin

I guess factorial is too specific for a general purpose language

DLosc

Yeah, especially a language that can take product(range(x)) quite easily

Wezl

00:32

the ! character is for assert anyway

lyxal

@DLosc ×´1+↕

Dang got ninja'd

Wezl

didn't realize that would work tacitly

lyxal

Idk if it's valid on its own though

Probably needs to be wrapped in a function

Wezl

It works on its own

DLosc

Yeah, that. (ninja'd)

user

00:37

{𝕩<2?1;𝕩×𝕊𝕩-1} with recursion (probably suboptimal)

Wezl

CMC solve try-it problems 1-4 on pages 130-132

DLosc

As a Greek aficionado, I do have to say I'm a bit disappointed by the choice of 𝕨 and 𝕩 instead of ⍺ and ⍵

user

I understand x, but I would've expected y like in J

@DLosc Those two characters look too much like a and w, and I can't speak for everyone, but x and y feel more intuitive to me than alpha and omega

Wezl

^^+^, plus double-struck w is a pain to squish into a monospace font

user

There's bqncrate to help look up idioms and stuff

DLosc

00:52

CMC: Given a number 𝕩, return the first 𝕩 rows of Pascal's triangle in any reasonable format.

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Write an interpreter for "MathScript", Optimize my Cruise Control

Niko

01:15

bqn just confusing with 2 modifier

Aaroneous Miller

Fanatic gang

lyxal

Bout time.

@AaroneousMiller imagine only visiting 100 days in a row

Aaroneous Miller

I feel like a big shot now

lyxal

Made by visited 789 days in a row gang

Aaroneous Miller

Jul 10 at 9:26, by lyxal

I'm such a fanatic that I've visited 694 days in a row

Imagine being on the site for 789 days

lyxal

01:24

@AaroneousMiller I take it having that badge pulls the strings and makes them ring

Aaroneous Miller

It do

user

We should totally make a cult of CGCC Fanatics

Aaroneous Miller

Wait, isn’t that what I just joined?

user

Anyone who doesn't agree to having their code and belongings golfed will have their life golfed

@AaroneousMiller It's the ticket to join, but I'm afraid we haven't made the actual cult yet. Would you like to be a founding member?

Aaroneous Miller

Sure why not

@user can we golf the beginning? I don’t remember much of it, so I won’t be affected too much

user

01:27

wdym?

DLosc

@DLosc First (successful) attempt, 16 bytes

Aaroneous Miller

@user if you golf the later parts of my life, I might miss out on some stuff

emanresu A

01:39

@AaroneousMiller Three more weeks....

Oh, LYAL

user

01:55

@DLosc Nice, looks like an entirely different approach from the bqncrate one (tho I can’t read bqn

DLosc

@user It's a vague attempt at porting my Pip and Husk solutions. I wish I could get rid of the curly braces and 𝕩, though.

user

Tacit?

DLosc

I want it to be tacit, yeah.

I'm not sure if BQN has an "unfold" operation where you start with a value, iterate a function over it, and collect the intermediate results. That might be helpful.

user

It probably does, and if not, you can modify fold to get similar results

nvm I thought you wanted scan

Repeat might work

DLosc

That's what I'm using, but the "collect intermediate results" part is where I'm stuck.

Instead I make a "repeat x times" function, apply it to ⟨1⟩, and then pass a range as the input x. But that's a bit clunky and I don't know if it's possible to do it tacitly.

Scan is probably my best bet, but setting up the input list is going to be a bit tricky...

Okay, got it working... now to see how many of those parentheses I can get rid of.

Redwolf Programs

02:29

Wow, a rapid cabin depressurization looks nothing like you'd expect

It just gets all foggy

DLosc

Personal experience, or video?

Redwolf Programs

Video

I would say I'd be slightly more panicked if it was personal experience but then again I'd probably just not care

People'd probably ruin it by freaking out and stuff

DLosc

Could you please pin the LYAL announcement?

Redwolf Programs

Done

DLosc

Thanks!

user

02:40

@RedwolfPrograms What’s a rapid cabin?

DLosc

Woo-hoo, 13 bytes! (Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Scan)

Still hope I can golf the (⟨1⟩¨↕) part some more, though

Also 13 bytes

Redwolf Programs

02:58

Tip: If you ever get accused of academic dishonesty, just call it "high efficiency tutoring". You give me $20, I give you the answers, we cut out all that boring fluff in the middle.

DLosc

Nah. It's not tutoring if the student didn't learn the material. High-efficiency test-passing, maybe.

Redwolf Programs

That's the joke :p

You're just paying me $20 to do your homework

DLosc

Poe's law strikes again. It's hard for me to appreciate a joke when I know there are people who would say the same thing in all seriousness.

user

Never assume anything Redwolf says is serious

lyxal

@user hey no fair that's my rule

Bubbler

03:14

@DLosc 7 bytes, not really correct :P

user

@lyxal Well I was joking but sure you can have the title of Least Serious User

lyxal

@user no, you weren't JoKing

you were Original Original Original IV

hyper-neutrino

was it not VI?

Redwolf Programs

For some reason I read VI and IV

I can never read VI as VI, perhaps lyxal does the same thing

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino yeah ojay it was

hyper-neutrino

03:20

you IVgor

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms nah I forgor 💀

user

@hyper-neutrino Yes, thank you for remembering

VI because six is perfect

New Posts

0

Q: Lean golf: List Game Lv2 (is_in_append, is_in_rev)

The title is an homage of the Natural Number Game, which is a nice interactive tutorial into proving certain properties of natural numbers in Lean. The definitions used in Lv1 will be reused here. I've done some improvements: Now it starts with import tactic, which means you can freely use powe...

user

I really like these challenges, the only problem is that once one person does it, it’s hard for beginners

Spoilers like on puzzlingse would be nice

Bubbler

Kinda yeah, it's actually like a programming puzzle

Bubbler

03:53

BQNMC: Given a character matrix with odd width and height, replace the center character with an "X".

Hint: ⌾

Unrelated String

is that under i smell

user

@UnrelatedString Bulls eye!

Unrelated String

ha

Unrelated String

04:07

wow this under actually does work the way i envisioned it for perhaps

this feels good

Razetime

@DLosc Hello, serial BQN user here

Bubbler

@Bubbler Test case

Unrelated String

...maybe without composing as well

thought i had it figured out, can't invert blocks
guess it's train time

Razetime

04:23

i have a 16 char function

which is about as short as i can get it without inversion problems

Unrelated String

that's exactly how long my work in progress is... which gives "no inverse found"

:/

er

"inverse not found"

Razetime

is it a simple train or are there combinators

Unrelated String

i have a ton of combinators

looking up the actual train syntax to see if i need all of them

also all of them are the little composition ring one

Bubbler

It's pretty much impossible without {} I think

Razetime

@Bubbler it is possible! i have 15

Unrelated String

04:28

this is what i had with {}

PyGamer0

my holidays start today

for 7 days

hi

Unrelated String

nice

Jo King

@user six is perfect apart from the crippling septophobia

Razetime

@UnrelatedString the way you circumvent the inverse problem with under is using precomputed constants

Unrelated String

with whats now

Razetime

04:30

and also btw `'X'

Unrelated String

i think i'm going to go back to doing my linguistics homework

Razetime

'X' all by itself is a constant function

Unrelated String

oh nice

Razetime

your solution can be {'X'⌾((⌈÷⟜2≢𝕩)⊑⊢)𝕩}

and you need ⌊ instead of ⌈ for the 0-indexing

Bubbler

Oh, it does work, that's kinda black magic

I got 15 train too

Razetime

04:32

nice

PyGamer0

is there a bqn keyboard?

Razetime

yes, abrudz.github.io/lb/bqn

PyGamer0

0‿0

Razetime

○‿○

PyGamer0

does it have more glyphs than apl??

ig it does

Razetime

04:37

i doubt it

Bubbler

It uses a different set of glyphs from APL

I count 78 non-ascii chars on the BQN page (plus a few more chars used to display arrays, maybe)

and 66 on the Dyalog 18.x keyboard

+13 if you count Extended (which gives 79)

Two different 15s

Razetime

Third 15

Bubbler

04:53

Oh right

Razetime

the power of nothing

Bubbler

Yeah, that nothing is a pretty clever invention

BQNMC: Convert a positive integer n to binary (any direction; 4 -> 1 0 0 or 0 0 1)

(Base conversion is not a built-in in BQN, which surprised me the most)

Razetime

05:09

@Bubbler i have 17 bytes so far

Bubbler

I got a 15

Razetime

i have a 16

not sure how the 15 works

i've got a recursive one

Bubbler

Mine is a pure train

Razetime

oh!

Bubbler

05:31

Now I have a 15 that outputs forward (1 0 0) and 15 for reverse (0 0 1)

Niko

05:42

bqn starts to hurt my head on third tutorial

Razetime

@Niko feel free to ask any doubts

@Bubbler no iteration?

Bubbler

Overcalculate and then truncate

ate and then ate

Both 15s

Niko

05:58

evolution of trust thingy should get a Koth

sounds like crb’s return

Razetime

@Bubbler neat

hyper-neutrino

→ 1 message moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

emanresu A

Wow that got nuked quick

33 secs

hyper-neutrino

looks like 29 to me

Jo King

eviscerated

emanresu A

06:09

You're probably right, I reloaded

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Goddamn hyper, that was quick :P

hyper-neutrino

that was not me

emanresu A

That was 6 spam flags, not mod action

hyper-neutrino

you can thank jo king for the nuke :P

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA It definitely wasn't, the post only got to -3

Razetime

06:11

cgcc question nuke% speedrun

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino My bad. Goddamn JoKing, that was quick :P

Bubbler

When SD detects a smoke, gotta put a flag quick

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino Wait, do mods have some sort of super-spam flag?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes

hyper-neutrino

wait did you not know that our red flags are binding lol

caird coinheringaahing

06:12

Like everything else, a mod flag/vote is binding

emanresu A

Oof

hyper-neutrino

also i guess i technically shouldn't disclose that info cuz flag history isn't in the public timeline but i doubt jo king minds the credit for the very fast obliteration of spam :p

Jo King

sometimes i actually do stuff

9

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino Wait... Did my flag even get in?

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Idk, now that I know JoKing flags spam, I'm not sure I can ever see them the same way :P

Bubbler

06:13

@emanresuA You can check it in your flag history

Razetime

@JoKing I'm stuff 🥴

hyper-neutrino

@emanresuA ^^ but yes, it did

Jo King

@Razetime i'm joking

hyper-neutrino

@Razetime ಠ_ಠ

Niko

imagine people trying to speedrun nuke% and posted a spam just for fastest deletion time

Bubbler

06:14

Mine got through too, but it was deleted before I could add an extra downvote to it

Razetime

@Niko would Not encourage that

caird coinheringaahing

@Razetime Omg JoKing, your boyfriend is awesome 😳

God, that's such a dead meme :P

Niko

then don’t let speedrun.com discover this

Razetime

wouldn't get accepted :)

emanresu A

Smokey would win anyway

Niko

06:17

who knows

hyper-neutrino

not necessarily

i've beaten smokey before

emanresu A

How?

hyper-neutrino

NMP is faster because it doesn't do any processing on the post

so i nuked one in 12 seconds once

emanresu A

Oh

Niko

make a nuke (tas) bot

emanresu A

06:20

76 flags???

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Also, if you browse /active, you can see new posts more or less as they come in

@emanresuA On whatever site that is

emanresu A

It's been running for, what, a couple of weeks?

caird coinheringaahing

Smokey?

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's here

Doesn't it give notifications in the chatroom?

There are a lot less than 76 messages there :p

hyper-neutrino

uh

caird coinheringaahing

06:22

Smokey's been active here for years

hyper-neutrino

what makes you think this bot instance was started when we added it to our room?

emanresu A

Oh...

That makes a lot of sense

More things I don't know

In that case, 76 seems rather low if it's been here for years...

pxeger

The Programming Checklist

is quite amusing

Adám

@pxeger No [ ] array

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Smokey only auto-flags if it reaches a certain threshold, or if it gets feedback telling it to flag

hyper-neutrino

06:25

@emanresuA smokey has a really high standard for autoflagging

Bubbler

> [ ] You have reinvented Brainfuck but non-ironically

caird coinheringaahing

Otherwise, it just lets people know that "maybe this point should be flagged"

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino That also makes sense - limited flags per day

hyper-neutrino

smokey reports aim for minimal false negatives, autoflagging aims for minimal false positives

@emanresuA that's not really the reason

emanresu A

Not wasting moderator time?

hyper-neutrino

06:26

it's more so that if the bot is flagging a lot of stuff incorrectly its reputation gets tarnished and it might be shut down or at least restricted

well autoflags aren't just cast through the bot

caird coinheringaahing

Plus, Smokey casts 4 auto flags at once

hyper-neutrino

i think it's only 4 during emergency situations

usually it's 3 i thought

caird coinheringaahing

Oh right, yeah, it's up to 4

Either way, if Smokey auto flags, a post is at least half way nuked, so you can't have that running lightly

hyper-neutrino

if its accuracy is too low it'll face backlash from the network, moderation / staff, and its own users (because it'll affect their flag stats and accuracy) which is straight up everyone so that wouldn't be good :P

Niko

"The implementation is the spec"
[ ] The implementation is closed-source [ ] covered by patents [ ] not owned by you

sounds very sad

Bubbler

06:33

sounds very K

emanresu A

> [ ] Programmers love writing lots of boilerplate

Bubbler

Never true on this site at least

lyxal

> [ ] Programmers should not develop RSI from writing "Hello, World!"

Laughs in golfing language

emanresu A

[ ] You have reinvented PHP but worse
[ ] You have reinvented PHP better, but that's still no justification

> [ ] Programming in this language is an adequate punishment for inventing it.

Bubbler

BQNMC: Swap case of an ascii-only text (any char between charcode 32 and 126 may appear; map a-z to A-Z and vice versa, and keep any other chars intact)

You can assume the text is a vector of characters

Niko

06:48

if someone invents a language to fit that checklist as much as possible

emanresu A

> [ ] Programmers should not need to understand category theory to write "Hello, World!"

Bubbler

@Bubbler I have 19

Adám

@Bubbler Me too.

@Bubbler 18.

@Bubbler Try it!

Bubbler

@Adám Fails with "Some!ascii[]TEXT~"

Adám

07:07

Oh, of course.

So how did you do it in 19?

Bubbler

19

Adám

OK, same idea. Nice.

Bubbler

You can't really escape from bins I guess

Razetime

07:30

@pxeger Ministry of Vector Processing

lyxal

07:44

> ⊃ and ↑ should: (X) rickroll the user

Thank you ngn very cool

emanresu A

> Target platform: Blackberry

> [ ] I affirm that I am not a carpenter

Unrelated String

[ ] Compiled languages will never be "extensible"

emanresu A

Is this some bizarre gender-neutral title, an extremely obscure assembly language, or the Ministry of Xylophone Cannons Shooting Rocks?

2

emanresu A

08:10

So three downvotes for a newcomer because he should have read some meta post before answering that he couldn't possibly have known about and somebody makes fun of his name? Welcome to Code Golf... — Dennis Sep 1 '14 at 21:39

Have we changed since then? I hope so...

Jo King

hey, we don't make fun of people's names anymore, right??

emanresu A

True. The rest, though...

Bubbler

I can't speak for newbies but I did read some dozens of meta posts before writing my first code golf answer

At least we don't make fun of newbies' names I guess

(insert yet another joking joke here)

emanresu A

My first answer was in PHP ;<(

And although I looked around the site before posting, I didn't even know meta existed

And it took me two months to discover TNB

Bubbler

Actually I think CGCC is by far the most meta-heavy site on SE (policies, common contest rules, culture changes, etc, etc)

emanresu A

08:16

True :p;.

CMC: What's the site most similar to CGCC?

Bubbler

on SE or including outside SE?

emanresu A

on SE

Wow, Codidact's been dead for almost a week.

caird coinheringaahing

Has it? It's had like 3 new posts this week I believe

emanresu A

Oh, I just checked challenges, not Q&A/sandbox

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Probably Puzzling

emanresu A

08:29

True :p

emanresu A

09:05

@JoKing What's a simple way to distinguish Befunge-93, 96, and 98?

Jo King

hmm, i think [] has different behaviour?

96 is a rare variant

emanresu A

I don't mind too much about 96, but 93 & 98 would be nice

Jo King

if you're using a 93 interpreter that ignores invalid instructions, then pretty much any new one from 98 will work

emanresu A

Oh ok, thanks

Jo King

aha, i was correct, [] exists in 98 but not in 93 or 96

caird coinheringaahing

09:10

CMP: How is "tuple" pronounced?

emanresu A

Tyoupill

caird coinheringaahing

My lecturer keeps saying "tuh-pull" :/

Adám

I think both are correct.

Jo King

still not as confusing as my lecturer pronouncing "determine" as "datamine"

7

PyGamer0

09:42

@cairdcoinheringaahing ta-pal

emanresu A

@JoKing Also, is there a way to polyglot *><> with regular ><>?

I'm guessing no, but...

Jo King

09:58

probably not. maybe if you looked into the interpreters?

might be some point where *><>'s go interpreter gives up on integer precision compared to ><>'s python one

Neil

@cairdcoinheringaahing two-pull

based on octuple, ɒkˈtu.pəl, its IPA would be something like tuˈpəl

emanresu A

Hm, they finally got round to it

I can't find a meta post for this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - there's probably one somewhere...

Adám

10:29

@cairdcoinheringaahing [ˈvɛktə]

user

11:38

@cairdcoinheringaahing Some weird combo of toopuhl and tuhpuhl?

caird coinheringaahing

No, basically tuhpuhl

user

11:55

Oh okay

I pronounce it like that, thought it was normal lol

thejonymyster

12:19

as a relatively new member,
1. We must not forget the principle of "Lurk more"
2. on a similar note, if you join some site that seems to follow some format / ruleset, and you don't go looking around for the rules, it's kind of on you
3. people have been generally nice from what i've seen, linking the sandbox and not being that harsh to ppl posting duplicates / "off topic" challenges etc

and by relatively, i mean, uh

on an unrelated note, what does the number under my and others' names mean

when i hover over it, all it gives me is the full number, not any sort of unit of measurement

is it accumulated rep from all of stack exchange?

pxeger

@thejonymyster yes, total reputation across all sites on the SE network

thejonymyster

ty :-)

Sandbox Posts

13:25

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Pythagorean triples given the hypotenuse. Definition from Wikipedia: A Pythagorean triple consists of three positive integers a, b, and c, such that a² + b² = c². The typical example of a Pythagorean triple is (3,4,5): 3² + 4² = 9 + 16 = 25 which is 5² Given an integer number c, return the list o...

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Imagine if mod votes were binding. Not close/reopen votes, just votes. If a mod upvotes something it gets upvoted as if every person on the site upvotes it :p

@JoKing Yeah, unless we're just JoKing about it

@thejonymyster It's SE's estimate of how many days we all have left to live

thejonymyster

13:44

ohhh ok

my number makes a lot more sense now

Redwolf Programs

> Snakes only strike when they feel threatened, if a snake is getting snuggly with you, then it obviously doesn't feel threatened.

I don't wanna get snuggly with a snake though

thejonymyster

:(

:(<

thats supposed to be like a snake face emote but i think i messed it up

Redwolf Programs

:< looks slightly more accurate but still weird

Ooh, after a week or so of idly trying to figure it out, I've finally found the inverse of f(x) = x ^ 3 + x

It's this mess: y=\sqrt[3]{\frac{x}{2}+\sqrt{\frac{x^{2}}{4}+\frac{1}{27}}}+\sqrt[3]{\frac{x}{2}-\sqrt{\frac{x^{2}}{4}+\frac{1}{27}}}

Uses the cubic formula

Adám

14:02

@RedwolfPrograms Any reason you didn't ask W⍺?

(2/3)^(1/3)/(sqrt(3) sqrt(27 x^2 + 4) - 9 x)^(1/3) - (sqrt(3) sqrt(27 x^2 + 4) - 9 x)^(1/3)/(2^(1/3) 3^(2/3))

Redwolf Programs

Because that would be no fun :p

PyGamer0

i am a vegetarian so i dont eat BQN :P

now that i look at :P, it looks like caird invented it :P

Adám

@PyGamer0 Yeah, I prefer APLs.

3

PyGamer0

yes APLs are better the BQN lol

user

@thejonymyster CGCC is pretty chill, but other sites may seem more hostile (mainly because they get lots of posts, so they get more posts from new users who don't do any research before posting)

@pxeger [ ] "Spooky action at a distance" makes programming more fun

What, you mean people don't enjoy it when printing to stdout changes the locale to Canada?

thejonymyster

14:20

oh, i figured the "we" was specifically about cgcc

oh completely unrelated to anything but has anyone made a "golfing lang" yet, where the joke is that its golf themed

just struck me out of the blue and i just happen to be in probably the exact place to ask

well, except maybe tarpit but yknow

user

14:48

@hyper-neutrino Could you unfreeze the Tarpit?

@thejonymyster Oh it probably is

hyper-neutrino

@user 👍

user

Thx!

CMQ: My school's blocked every site with games that I know of. The latest casualty was Cool Math, and now I don't have anything to play with (in my spare time, I definitely don't play games during class). Any suggestions?

Redwolf Programs

redwolfprograms.com has some (admittedly bad) games :p

thejonymyster

program rng text games in replit

Redwolf Programs

I made them all in like 7th grade so send any complaints into my time machine

user

14:52

I'll take anything at this point

@thejonymyster See now I don't actually like making games, I just enjoy enjoying the fruits of others' labor

thejonymyster

pretend its part of the game? :p idk lol my school was chill about most sites i went on

Redwolf Programs

I'm working on a multiplayer text based RPG, in theory

Haven't actually done anything on it in like a year

user

Oh god that zombie game will forever traumatize me

Aaroneous Miller

@user I made minesweeper in Vim if u wanna play that, but it hits a recursion error if the board is too big (don't ask).

user

Ooh, nice

Redwolf Programs

14:55

@user The graphics are truly awful but it's sort of fun

If you ignore the issues it has

And the fact that I stopped halfway through making it

user

Yeah it's not a bad game for a seventh grader at all, it was just...odd

It feels helpless to not be able to aim with any level of precision at all, and the blood is kinda disconcerting

Aaroneous Miller

Sep 15 at 20:52, by Aaron Miller

Turns out X homoglyphs actually render in my terminal, so I'm using that now: Try it online!

user

Is it randomly generated?

Redwolf Programs

Yeah (if you're taking about the zombie game)

Aaroneous Miller

no, i was lazy (if you're taking about the minesweeper game)

Redwolf Programs

14:58

I was planning on adding actual graphics and making the procedurally generated buildings contain weapons and ammo

user

Nice

Redwolf Programs

The sticky traps, grenades, and landmines were just test items from the final days of the game's development

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