The Nineteenth Byte

user41805

18:00

'all answers on this site should make some effort to meet the winning criteria' maybe we should stop enforcing this? as caird said (i think), it's a bit pointless to just golf variable names and remove whitespace, so why not just include such answers? i don't mean just to these hard challenges, but also to smaller ones in general, where you see answerers posting approaches that will never beat the shortest existing one, yet still do post them because these approaches are interesting

rak1507

agreed

a long interesting approach is a good contribution to the site even if doesn't make an attempt to golf it

user41805

(partially influenced by mitch schwartz's points here chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/58195645#58195645) (also my point focusing on allowing vs disallowing such answers altogether from the site, instead of voting policy)

Browncat Programs

We do actually allow answers of different "subcategories" if you read through the rules IIRC, which don't necessarily have to be competitive for the language as a whole

tjjfvi

@cairdcoinheringaahing There's a difference between knowing "code-golf challenges should generally be golfed" (which I obviously knew) and knowing "site policy is that answers that don't attempt to be competitive wrt the scoring criterion are invalid" (which I didn't)

hyper-neutrino

for whatever reason, the part in the help center saying that solutions need to be serious contenders is in the asking section under what's on-topic

user41805

18:16

@BrowncatPrograms thank you for reminding me, i forgot (codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/8750)

New Posts

0

Q: How to use Loop for calculation

$query = "SELECT * FROM payment WHERE application_id='".$sbank_lhistory['application_id']."' AND account='".$accno."' AND status='Verified!' ORDER BY id DESC"; $result = mysqli_query($con,$query); while($row = mysqli_fetch_array($resul)){ $idk = $row['id']; $name = $row['name']; $paymentRequest ...

Wheat Wizard

gist.github.com/chiroptical/41d4ccc4c39cfe1f59bdd37279048510

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts VTC y'all, OP asked the same thing over on MSE about half an hour ago

user41805

i guess it's all just a slippery slope, mitch schwartz still brings up good points, ie. you could just run a code minifier to satisfy the requirements, but is it worth it? idk

caird coinheringaahing

@user41805 No, I didn't say that it's pointless. I said that it takes minimal effort to do

user41805

18:23

but i guess you have to draw the line somewhere, so showing this minimal effort might be good enough, even though i am not entirely satisfied

@cairdcoinheringaahing i guess i now agree with you

Wheat Wizard

@MitchSchwartz I can't speak for @hyper-neutrino but we as moderators enforce the rules of the site as decided by the community. I personally don't like this rule, but as moderator we enforce the rules because the community seems to agree that they want them. I would urge you to bring this up on the meta so a discussion could be had with the community and perhaps change the rules.

caird coinheringaahing

My biggest argument for enforcing it is that all posts here must meet some standard of quality. And the more objective those standards are, the stronger they are. For example, a new user posts an answer to the HW thread showing off a full, idiomatic Java answer, completely ungolfed. They then justify this by pointing to tjjfvi's (original) answer, claiming that if that answer is allowed, why isn't theirs?

Browncat Programs

I think typically the best thing to do is to provide a somewhat golfed version of your answer, but put the "real" one below it

hyper-neutrino

I don't really care all that much about this rule. It gets tiring being treated as the person who wants to delete these answers when I never would've even seen them if they weren't flagged by users who are just pointing out things that break community-established standards or rules, and that I act on based on community-established policies and courses of action.

As I always say, if you disagree with the policies that I had nothing to do with in the first place, feel free to post it to and discuss it with the same place / people that established it in the first place. People rarely actually take me up on that offer.

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing nah I think there's a difference between answering a question that wasn't answered in years and just providing a bad ungolfed mediocre solution

tjjfvi

18:29

No one is debating whether or not there's a difference. The question is where (and, importantly, how) to draw the line

user41805

(my qualm was not with the mods or enforcers, but with the site policy in case it was not clear)

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 There is. But how do you justify that to a new user?

rak1507

by saying 'their answer was particularly impressive, yours isn't'

caird coinheringaahing

"That answer is more interesting than yours"? "It's more impressive"?

Browncat Programs

@rak1507 But there's gray in between, and you then have to either decide on a point to stop at, or keep edging in one direction or the other

caird coinheringaahing

18:29

@rak1507 Good luck with that

rak1507

why not just downvote answers that aren't 'good', whatever that means

rather than relying on rules

caird coinheringaahing

Because when I do that, people think I'm being mean

rak1507

tjjfvi's answer was good though

caird coinheringaahing

By one standard

Browncat Programs

@rak1507 And because it'd just make CGCC into another random forum where you post whatever you want and the only punishment is downvotes

caird coinheringaahing

18:30

By another (golfiness alone), it wasn't

rak1507

I feel like people should take into consideration context rather than just 'not golfed - bad'

Wheat Wizard

Oh I didn't realize that Mitch's message is already months old. I thought it was from Sept. 1st.

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 We do. As I said, I think it's an incredible answer, regardless of golfing or not. If I saw it anywhere else on the internet, I'd upvote/bounty/reward/whatever it. But, what about taking the context of the site and the tag into consideration?

Browncat Programs

@rak1507 Most people do

caird coinheringaahing

I've cast a grand total of 220 downvotes (on non-deleted posts). I don't go around downvoting every answer I see that isn't as golfy as I think it could be. But, I have a personal line between "this could be improved, but is still making an effort to golf" and "this isn't making any effort to golf"

tjjfvi

18:34

Given the site policy, I think caird's action was a reasonable one. It's not necessarily one I would've taken, but I don't think it's productive to argue against their action

Though I do appreciate the support, @rak1507

caird coinheringaahing

It's not like I flagged it, or VTD'd :P

That would be inappropriate

rak1507

To me it's just, what do we want the site to be? Some of the coolest answers I've seen have not necessarily been the most golfed, and I don't want people like that to feel discouraged. I think we just have different views over the 'purpose' of the site really

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Wdym? I've been told by many users on MSO and MSE that all moderators are power hungry users who only find joy in deleting other users' very reasonable requests to have someone do their homework for them! :P

tjjfvi

For future reference: If I had known/thought Gareth would be quick to respond, I probably would've suggested the scoring criterion be changed to something like "lowest average solution move count" (which I personally think would've been much more interesting for this challenge). Given the etiquette and policies of the site, do y'all think that would've been a reasonable suggestion/request, or should I've just sucked it up and posted a golfed answer?

caird coinheringaahing

@tjjfvi It couldn't have hurt to suggest it

There have been quite a lot of challenges that have been improved by a different scoring criteria suggested by comments

tjjfvi

18:40

Good to know, thanks

caird coinheringaahing

> Custodian - 1/1
Reviewer - 12/250
Steward - 435/1000

Well that's fun :P

Wheat Wizard

Noooooo

Browncat Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yay!

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard What's the no for? :P

Wheat Wizard

I liked it the way it was.

Browncat Programs

18:43

Well I sure didn't

Wheat Wizard

I think that getting upset over "lost progress" is silly.

Browncat Programs

I was super close to a badge for FP, why should I lose that progress?

Wheat Wizard

Because you shouldn't be doing reviews to tick up some counter.

Browncat Programs

No, but it's a nice bonus

caird coinheringaahing

It's nice to get a little reward for the work

hyper-neutrino

18:45

one point of consideration is that it's potentially a bad precedent that your progress can just go poof overnight and even if it's not important here it might be elsewhere... (might - i can't think of anything right now)

caird coinheringaahing

Especially on this site, where the queues are much quieter, reaching 250 or 1000 reviews is a pretty good milestone

hyper-neutrino

in any case, i see no harm in changing it to re-award the credit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wheat Wizard

18:56

I just feel like it is encouraging the most pernicious aspects of the site.

@hyper-neutrino I think this is a good precedent.

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard That might be an argument against the badges existing in the first place, but not really for just getting rid of people's progress

Wheat Wizard

It really isn't erasing any progress.

The progress is just halted.

Browncat Programs

And badges encouraging reviewing isn't a bad thing either

I started reviewing because of the badges

@WheatWizard Nobody's going to go look at your reviewing stats, but they're likely to see a reviewer or steward badge

caird coinheringaahing

I've starting multiple positive actions on the network because of the badges, then continued because the actions themselves are positive, and I no longer care about the badge

Wheat Wizard

@BrowncatPrograms That doesn't change anything though?

caird coinheringaahing

19:00

Steward affects your candidate score in mod elections, which people give a bit too much weight

Browncat Programs

If SE just got rid of my progress toward Reviewer, it'd seriously discourage me from trying to get other badges, and trying to reach those is often what encourages me to continue contributing to this site (in terms of moderation/reviewing type stuff, and overall as well)

Wheat Wizard

I think that anything was "wasted" just because a badge is no longer obtainable is rather revealing as to how broken the incentives here are.

Browncat Programs

There's a difference between an incentive and a reward

And a lot of things are both

By throwing away progress toward a badge, that's not just throwing away an incentive, which for people reviewing because they care about the site isn't a big deal, it's throwing away a reward

Humans like shiny things :p

Wheat Wizard

Nothing is being thrown away.

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard The progress toward a badge is

Wheat Wizard

19:02

Your progress is still there, and can be viewed.

Browncat Programs

But I'm not just reviewing to inflate a number somewhere

I'm doing it mainly to help the site, and the badge is a nice reward

The number itself, at least to me, is just progress toward the badge

It's not much on its own

caird coinheringaahing

If you had 999 FP reviews, you'd feel pretty cheated if the queue was deactivated before you could get the final one

Browncat Programs

It's like how I don't post challenges for the rep, but it's the sort of positive encouragement that makes me want to come back and do it again later

caird coinheringaahing

Even if you aren't reviewing to get the badge, it's still a milestone that has been given some importance by SE. To have that progress reset by deactivating the queue and creating two new blanks ones, it can feel pretty bad

Wheat Wizard

I don't really care about how I would feel. This should be about promoting a healthy reviewing community.

Browncat Programs

19:04

I don't review for the badge, but getting something shiny I can show off as a reward for doing it is a great motivator to work toward reviewing even when I don't really feel like it

Wheat Wizard

@cairdcoinheringaahing No progress is being reset.

caird coinheringaahing

Progress toward a Steward badge is

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard And it is promoting a healthy reviewing community

Wheat Wizard

@cairdcoinheringaahing It is not. I can see my progress towards steward right now.

@BrowncatPrograms It absolutely is not doing that.

Browncat Programs

But the progress means nothing if you can't keep gaining more progress

Wheat Wizard

19:06

Yes. That is what has happened the progress has lost it's value towards a badge.

caird coinheringaahing

That feels like quibbling over semantics, rather than actually discussing the point

Browncat Programs

^

Wheat Wizard

This is a very important distinction.

Browncat Programs

I disagree

Wheat Wizard

You are not entitled to a badge.

Browncat Programs

19:07

The site says I'll get a badge at 1k reviews, so of course I'd feel cheated if I didn't get that badge

Wheat Wizard

This presupposes some entitlement to a badge. That by working you deserve to be able to get the badge.

Browncat Programs

And I think I do deserve a badge if I manage to help 1k new users on this site, right?

Wheat Wizard

Noone desserves a badge.

Browncat Programs

Uh...I disagree?

Wheat Wizard

Just some people have them.

Browncat Programs

19:09

They have a defined condition for getting them

If you do that action, you deserve the badge

By definition

Wheat Wizard

Surely not.

Browncat Programs

Once again this feels like semantics

Wheat Wizard

I don't know how y'all can assert simultaneously that badges are trivial enough that they don't encourage poor behavior but important enough that it is a loss when progress can no longer be increased.

caird coinheringaahing

If the site says "If you do X, you'll get a reward", and you get close to doing X, then they say "Sorry, you can't get any closer to X, but look, another way to do X, starting from scratch", that feels wrong

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard A loss doesn't have to be a big loss

Although it sort of does feel like a big loss

caird coinheringaahing

19:11

Badges are a reward system, that make the crow part of our brain want to do more on the site. Sometimes, they encourages ...less than useful behaviour (Peer Pressure anyone?), sometimes, we do those tasks because we want to, and sometimes, we do them because the crow brain says "Do it, and you'll get closer to the shiny thing"

Wheat Wizard

The collective mini-tantrum of SE over this issue seems to indicate that a lot of users hold this to be very important, and to be fair I suppose that is not y'all specifically.

tjjfvi

@emanresuA In case anyone was wondering how impossible this is: I scanned 300 million random strings, and only 6 of them, when hashed and base36'd, contained neverg

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard It is important to me that the work I did with the expectation of being recognized for it is recognized as I'd been told

As much as I'd love to be able to say I do everything out a 100% pure sense of selflessness and dedication, I don't and nobody on this site does

Wheat Wizard

Why? And why is a badge, such an important way to be recognized.

caird coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms The key bit is "as I'd been told". If there was no reward for reviewing, I'd probably still do it, and be quietly happy at my own milestones. But, because I'd been told I'd get something for doing reviews, I want it when I do those reviews :P

Browncat Programs

19:14

@WheatWizard Because the badge is exclusive. The badge is the reward that we were promised, so it's the one that people care about

Wheat Wizard

I think we should be encouraged to review for quality not quantity. I don't think that achieving 1000 review on its own makes anyone worthy of much.

Browncat Programs

Sure, but that's not an argument for discarding progress, it's an argument for not having the badge in the first place

Wheat Wizard

Again No progress is discarded.

The question is whether certain progress should be exchanged or converted into new progress.

Browncat Programs

We have different definitions of progress then

Wheat Wizard

The progress is still there I don't know how it can be discarded.

Browncat Programs

19:15

My progress toward something becomes worthless if I can no longer do that thing

It's still there, but it has no implicit value

Wheat Wizard

Your progress should have been worthless in the first place.

caird coinheringaahing

But it was given worth by the existence of the badge

hyper-neutrino

well, it wasn't

Wheat Wizard

Yes. and SE briefly rectified the issue before users threw a mini-fit on meta.

Browncat Programs

Most people don't see it like that

They didn't "fix an issue", they broke what was basically a promise of a reward

Wheat Wizard

19:17

Yes clearly they believe that they are entitled to a badge or part of a badge.

Browncat Programs

I wish you'd stop using the word "entitled" for this

caird coinheringaahing

If they put in the work, why aren't they "entitled" to a badge?

Wheat Wizard

And had they not reversed the decision this would be evidence going forward that they would not be entitled to such.

hyper-neutrino

I'd be willing to mow my neighbor's lawn when I do my own for free our of generosity but if they come to me asking if I can do it for some payment, and then don't pay me and say "you would've been willing to do it for free anyway", should I accept that?

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard It would be evidence that, on a whim, they won't honor their promises

Wheat Wizard

19:19

Where did they make a promise? It seems to me that that promise was purely in the minds of the users.

caird coinheringaahing

And the company is definitely trying to move away from any changes that would suggest they don't honor their promises

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard We're "promised" a badge for a certain amount of work.

Wheat Wizard

@BrowncatPrograms And a badge was given to everyone who did that "work".

And I think it would be best if they didn't have that idea that they are promised something for doing reviews.

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard Perhaps. But that's removing the badge, rather than discussing any potential "compensation" or not

hyper-neutrino

that would be an appropriate argument for removing the set of review badges entirely. not what this is

Wheat Wizard

19:21

I am arguing for both, because I think both are good.

Browncat Programs

@WheatWizard That'd be like HN's metaphorical neighbor waiting until he was halfway done mowing his lawn for pay, then saying "never mind, I don't want my yard mowed"

Wheat Wizard

I think that by ending the queue without refunds it sets a good precedent that you are not entitled to any reward for doing reviews.

Browncat Programs

That's a bad precedent

It's a precedent that SE doesn't care about us

Or the work we put in

Or the promises they make

Wheat Wizard

@BrowncatPrograms No, in the metaphor here now they have a shared covenant, which is broken.

SE never promised the queues would be around forever.

caird coinheringaahing

What do you think of the old Reviewer badge, out of interest?

> 1000 reviews, over 200 actioned, predicated on first earning Strunk & White

Exact criteria here

Wheat Wizard

19:23

I don't think that you can make a metric that cannot be gamed, either intentionally or unintentionally.

I think that a humble counter would be fine enough.

caird coinheringaahing

Tbh, I do pay more attention to the counter, rather than the badge progress bar

Wheat Wizard

Although I do prefer that you have to have taken action on a certain percentage.

@BrowncatPrograms In this case that is what I am discussing?

Browncat Programs

But you can't use not liking the badges in the first place as an argument for getting rid of people's progress

Wheat Wizard

I am giving my opinion on the old reviewer badge.

@BrowncatPrograms I am arguing that the both are good for the same reason.

caird coinheringaahing

Gaaah, and I was just closing in on 900 reviews after a year and a half, and those were for combined reviews of all types. Jebus knows how long it'll take to hit 1000 on each criteria now. Not that it's all about the badges of course. (Who am i kidding). — JonW Sep 21 '12 at 23:17

Looks like outrage on changing the queues is at least 9 years old :P

Wheat Wizard

19:29

Older than our site.

caird coinheringaahing

Ooh, nice, looks like Community will be getting a personalised [Bot] label soon: meta.stackexchange.com/a/369844/355458

Only live on MSE for the moment

Browncat Programs

Hopefully they get rid of canned comments along with that :p

Wheat Wizard

I read "community" and "personalised" and got really excited for a second.

caird coinheringaahing

Sorry :/

@BrowncatPrograms They aren't, they've said that

Browncat Programs

Ever?

caird coinheringaahing

19:32

Kind of. They're keeping the idea of canned comments, but site specific ones are status-deferred

Wheat Wizard

Community is the most prolific flagger on this site, however it almost certainly has the worst track record.

caird coinheringaahing

And they're working on fixing the current ones

@WheatWizard How many flags (total) has it raised?

Browncat Programs

Canned comments from community overall are a horrible idea

Wheat Wizard

I'd have to check.

hyper-neutrino

hard to tell because it owns flags from deleted users too I think

Browncat Programs

19:33

The anonymity is something that is bad in every way

caird coinheringaahing

We can see the number of helpful flags, but not the total number :P

@BrowncatPrograms Anonymity is going to be optional

hyper-neutrino

according to the user info, it has 5324 helpful and 178 other. which is absolutely wrong

Browncat Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing It shouldn't be an option at all

If you're scared of how your feedback on a new user's post will be received, your feedback is bad

emanresu A

@BrowncatPrograms Agreed

caird coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Agreed

Wheat Wizard

19:34

@cairdcoinheringaahing On meta and main combined around 5,500.

I will say though that frequently community flags are marked "helpful" because that is the quickest way to dismiss them.

hyper-neutrino

looking through the flag history itself tho, a lot of them seem like they were written by a human

and i don't think community raises red flags

Wheat Wizard

Oh does that number only count reds?

Oh yeah I can see community has flagged the sandbox more times than its flag raise count on meta.

caird coinheringaahing

What Community auto-flags

hyper-neutrino

@WheatWizard no i think that number only counts flags that are owned by community but actually raised by real users

Wheat Wizard

@cairdcoinheringaahing This is something community kindly reminds us nearly constantly.

hyper-neutrino

19:39

for a site called "code golf", it's ironic that community almost never raises a single helpful "excessively long" flag

6

Aaron Miller

20:19

It's probably a good thing that we rewrote the Vyxal parser. The old one had... issues:

caird coinheringaahing

Was it deleted? :P

Aaron Miller

i thought it would shorten the link but it didn't. just a sec

bit.ly/3C6LBZa

emanresu A

Cursed.

Aaron Miller

actually i guess that's technically a lexer issue, but still

emanresu A

bit.ly/3hvLb6S

More cursed.

Where is the 0 coming from?

Aaron Miller

20:25

The entire program is actually a comment

emanresu A

Oh, I see.

Because the ` sets to stringmode even inside a comment

Aaron Miller

the backticks still start/end strings even though they're in a comment, so all of the newlines are part of the strings and don't end the comment

emanresu A

that is cursed

Aaron Miller

yep :)

hyper-neutrino

CGCC Mod Office

Informal chat room with CGCC's moderators regarding moderation...

2

room is now set up with smoke detector posting reports from this site into it. feel free to also talk about moderation stuff / to mods in general

caird coinheringaahing

20:29

Now, we spend 2 weeks without any spam being posted here :P

hyper-neutrino

honestly, with how much spam we get, we probably need to constantly antifreeze the room. unlike math.SE we don't get that many mod inquiries/requests either :P

Aaron Miller

@AaronMiller It works because the lexer groups all strings together before any tokenising is done, so it gets tokenised as <Start Comment> <String> <String> <End Comment> which is why it doesn't work with other structures, like lambdas or diagraphs

emanresu A

Is it configured to spot spam on meta?

They've done that before

hyper-neutrino

yes

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino Ignore the flag that just got raised because I was cleaning up my posted sandbox challenges.

At least I think deleting five posts raises a flag

hyper-neutrino

20:35

lol, you don't need to tell me to ignore it, vandalism flags containing a bunch of sandbox posts are not something i haven't seen before :p

(also by ignore, i assume you mean decline, cuz i'm not just gonna let it sit there forever)

emanresu A

Oh ok

Speaking of the sandbox, Any feedback?

Browncat Programs

@hyper-neutrino Idk, deleting a bunch of sandbox drafts sounds suspicious. I say you ban emanresu A just to be safe :p

3

Aaron Miller

One thing I love about the broken parser in the current version of Vyxal is that the syntax highlighting has no idea what's going on: Try it Online!

emanresu A

Vylight's a little buggy, which I'll get around to fixing at some point. I have 3 bugs to squash, one of which I forgot to put on Github and forgot what it was.

Aaron Miller

Well, a lot of the Vylight bugs I've noticed are just because it's doing the sensible thing, but Vyxal isn't :P

emanresu A

20:47

In one case, it's doing the same (wrong) thing as Vyxal.

Aaron Miller

in Vyxal, Jul 28 at 14:45, by Aaron Miller

Fun fact: VyLight gives up after exactly 10001 characters. The 10002nd character and beyond has no syntax highlighting.

in Vyxal, Jul 28 at 14:45, by user

...Why do you know this?

emanresu A

That's CM's fault - I can change the limit if you want, but it'll slow down the page, and what's even the point of highlighting a 10000-char program? How do you even get a 10000-char program?

Aaron Miller

There isn't a point. That's why it's a fun fact instead of a bug report :P

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA That's just a normal Vyxal answer by lyxal to unlolify :P

Aaron Miller

LMAO GET REKT

emanresu A

20:50

@cairdcoinheringaahing Don't tease them, they tried.

Aaron Miller

@emanresuA I discovered it when I was hardcoding an answer to "Scream Very Loudly"

6

emanresu A

That actually made me laugh out loud.

Aaron Miller

:)

caird coinheringaahing

Did it make you scream out loud? :P

emanresu A

Bye

Aaron Miller

20:56

/o

New Posts

21:22

0

Q: Convert to a non-adjacent form

Consider a form of binary where digits can be any of \$1\$, \$0\$ and \$-1\$. We'll still call this "binary" because we convert the digits from base two. For example, $$\begin{align} [1, 0, -1, 1]_2 & = 1 \times 2^3 + 0 \times 2^2 + -1 \times 2^1 + 1 \times 2^0 \\ & = 8 - 2 + 1 \\ & = 7 \end{alig...

code-golf binary base-conversion

AviFS

21:51

Looks like we're doing ><> today for LYLGG!

Wheat Wizard

Today only lasts for 5 more minutes. Do you mean tomorrow?

user

In UTC 0?

DLosc

Oh no, not this again X^D

AviFS

@WheatWizard I'm not expecting the 2am'ers to be the ones coming :p

user

@DLosc Oh no, did someone break your nose?!

DLosc

22:02

@user Nah. It sticks out from my face, that's all.

user

Have you considered getting surgery to correct it? :P

DLosc

Not even once. :^P

If I did, then my glasses wouldn't fit

and I'd look like Voldemort

(with hair)

user

22:22

sus

I vote to eject DLosc on account of being a possible Death Eater

lyxal

23:03

@AaronMiller except for the fact that it isn't cursed

if you see the compiled code using the c flag, you'll see nothing actually transpiles

hence why it outputs 0

because it thinks it's an empty program

@emanresuA the 0 is coming from implicit cat

It probably is erroring interally

but because the online site wraps everything in a try/except, some errors get lost along the way

meaning it doesn't report 100% of errors like the offline version does

anyhow it's wednesday morning zoomies time, so let the tnb sh*tposting commence ;p

lyxal

23:34

CMQ: Who remembers this music?

user

I thought Club Penguin was dead?

lyxal

It kind of is

There's club penguin clones

but those are prone to being pwned

Jo King

so, we're doing ><> for LYAL?

user

I guess so

Any ><> users here?

tjjfvi

👋

And @JoKing, right?

Jo King

23:40

l do a decent amount of it

lyxal

@user Not regularly, but I know a bit of ><> because it was the first esolang I learned

user

Great!

Jo King

>MC: Output the first N Fibonacci numbers (you can take n via the -v argument)

user

Oh no, let's please not call them >MC's

Why not ><> CMC?

Jo King

Sure

You can find a neat (if a little buggy) visualiser at suppen.no/fishlanguage

4

user

23:44

Ooh

tjjfvi

There are a few differences from the official interpreter, but it's a lot nicer to work with

user

Can it take input?

rak1507

@JoKing oh amazing

didn't know that existed since fishlanguage went down

user

nvm, I see it now

lyxal

@JoKing N > 1?

Jo King

23:47

you can do zero indexed or one indexed as you wish

tjjfvi

@tjjfvi The only one I know of right now is wrapping; the official interpreter wraps at the end of each line, whereas fishlanguage wraps at the end of the block, which is the maximum width of all lines

Jo King

@lyxal let's go with N>=1

@tjjfvi I believe there's also some issue with . as well? Not sure

Oh, i thought the event already started an hour ago, my bad

tjjfvi

Hmm, I'm not familiar with that one. Recently g was completely broken, maybe that's what you're thinking of? I submitted a PR for that one that has been merged

Jo King

@tjjfvi ah, that was it. neat, thanks for fixing that

rak1507

@JoKing tio.run/##S8sszvj/38DQKs/KQbvIUNfKXtG6yNBA7////7pl/00B 18 bytes

do you need spaces/newlines?

20 if so, add in ao

not written any ><> in ages

Wezl

23:58

what are the advantages of fish over befunge?

user

Isn't ><> a fungeoid?

Some people like vanilla ice cream, others chocolate

Jo King

It's a lot cleaner overall. The conditional's are symmetrical rather than in fixed directions, the stack operations don't limit you as much, and the jump operator is neat

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