The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:19

CMM: Is two days in the Sandbox enough for a simple challenge?

Unrelated String

00:35

if it's especially simple, i almost want to say you should give it longer than normal

user

Huh, why?

Unrelated String

if there's a good chance something will be closed as a dupe of it in the future, and/or you expect a lot of answers to it, you want to make sure it's the best it can be

user

Ah, fair enough

In that case, any feedback? (Warning: Codidact, not CGCC)

Adám

00:51

@user You do realise that this is a built-in in many languages, right?

user

It's a single builtin?

I thought it'd be something like {⍺⍺/⍳⍵} in APL, at least

Adám

@user ~~But you can do sol←/~~ I misread.

user

In any case, Codidact's Code Golf is still starting and can do with some easy challenges

Oh ok

Adám

@user You can do ⎕/⍳⎕ in APL.

user

Ah, fair enough

Still, that's not a single built-in, and I think trivial challenges are alright for now

Adám

00:55

No, you're right.

user

I'll post a harder version of this once I think of a way to make the (n*"super")factorial challenge we got a few days back more interesting

exedraj

01:11

@Adám for some reason, the bookmark link isn't working when I try and use it on other sites

nothing appears

Adám

@exedraj Which sites? Some prohibit XSS, and that'll block the language bar.

exedraj

Code Golf

SE chat

Duckduckgo

Adám

Oh, it is indeed broken :-(

OK, found the bug.

exedraj

is it that vyxal bad? ;P

Adám

No, not at all, just me being sloppy. Should work now, but you need to re-"install" the bookmarklet.

exedraj

01:16

oh there it is

thank you! :)

Redwolf Programs

01:47

I've attempted to make an editor theme. Not sure how it turned out:

It was more an experiment than anything, I restricted myself to only using colors that were # followed by an ordering of 0, 5, and 9

Bubbler

Looks fine except that you're using var and snake_case instead of camelCase

Redwolf Programs

That does not have to do with the editor theme :p

I just took some random code from a project of mine

emanresu A

02:18

Hi

Redwolf Programs

Hi!

emanresu A

I have nothing else to say aside from that, so I'll just leave this tab open and go work on trolling Lyxal / exedraj / whatever.

exedraj

Hi

emanresu A

You will get troller

d

exedraj

@Adám If I wanted to add more mappings to the Vyxal language bar (because I've noticed I missed a few), would I add them to the tcs variable in vyxal.js?

emanresu A

02:30

Wait it works noe?

exedraj

And would I need to insert them in a specific location?

emanresu A

Oh I see col

The only problem is o/

I'm going to end up typing ø accidentally a lot

Adám

@exedraj No, add them to pairs.txt (and update vyxal.dyalog if necessary). The APL code in vyxal.dyalog generates the tcs variable.

@emanresuA Do you usually hit Tab after typing o/?

(I personally use ○/, so it wouldn't affect me.)

exedraj

@Adám you mean that it automatically updates based on the gist?

emanresu A

@Adám Oh

Should be fine then

Adám

02:34

@exedraj No, GitHub repos are static :-) but I (or you) can very easily regenerate the tcs variable which is then inserted into the vyxal.js file.

exedraj

but I mean does it know to scrape the gist if executed?

or do I need to give it the updated gist manually?

Adám

It expects pairs.txt as a list of strings argument.

The full calling syntax to regenerate tcs and lbs is:

(tcs lbs)←1⎕JSON¨'path/to/local/pairs.txt'1Build⍥⊃⍥⎕NGET'path/to/local/elements.txt'1

exedraj

@Adám Build is undefined?

Adám

@exedraj It is defined in vyxal.dyalog

You can import it before the above with 2⎕FIX'file://path/to/local/vyxal.dyalog'

exedraj

oh nice

thank you

Adám

02:49

After defining tcs and lbs as per above, you can do )ed tcs lbs to open editor windows you can copy the JS code from.

So if you make a PR, include your changes to vyxal.dyalog and vyxal.js

exedraj

I didn't change the apl file, so I'll just update the js

Adám

So the URL to pairs.txt didn't change?

exedraj

no

I just manually downloaded it

Adám

But didn't you make changes to it?

exedraj

I changed it

but I edited the gist, not creating a new one

Adám

02:53

Ah, OK, I thought the gist URL would change upon every edit. My bad.

exedraj

github.com/abrudz/lb/pull/10

emanresu A

@exedraj Are you ready for my next Javastack cop?

0

A: Print X without X (cop's thread)

Javastack, score 11, round 10. dfhklmquvx" Game on... One more time. Up-to-date copy of the interpreter I spent all day working on this, so hopefully it holds up for at least 20 minutes...

@exedraj Here you go!

exedraj

I'll make sure to time myself when I attempt it

Redwolf Programs

I can now edit stuff on meta lol

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms Wait what

as in you couldn't before?

Why?

Redwolf Programs

03:05

MM

emanresu A

O

downvotes

Your answer is much poggerness

Redwolf Programs

@emanresuA I honestly deserve it, most of the rep I've earned on MM is from a few answer pointing out stuff everyone agrees with, before anyone else got there :p

emanresu A

Same here

20

A: Magic wand time - what does your community need? (More questions from the Community VP)

Allow more syntax highlighting HighlightJS ships a lot of useful languages, of which SO & other programming sites only use a small fraction of. Syntax highlighting is very useful for clarity and readability. If someone posts a AppleScript question, the code would be a lot easier to read, and ther...

My one answer

Redwolf Programs

~~Mine're similar but I have three and they have twice as many upvotes~~

emanresu A

I was going to ask to remove 'people reached'

but someone did already

31

A: Some changes to the profile while we make it responsive

feature-request Please drop the "reached" metric. Previously at least it showed the number of people reached. Now it looks like I can reach 3.6 meters with my arms. What? This metric is absolutely useless. It does not convey anything, only being there for vanity.

Has anyone had the idea of 'delete reasons'?

Like when you delete your own answer?

exedraj

03:18

@emanresuA possible with a combination of pop, swap, iterate and ascii

emanresu A

Not quite

exedraj

It is

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Prove NL=coNL Description One of the achievements of complexity theory is showing that NL, the set of problems with solutions that can be verified in logarithmic space, is the same as coNL, the set of problems which can be verified to have no solution in logarithmic space (i.e. the set of problem...

emanresu A

How do you join it all together?

exedraj

Implicit output, no?

And wrap and pair

emanresu A

03:19

It needs to be as one string though...

exedraj

And join

It'll be annoying, but relatively trivial

emanresu A

But there's no way to get an empty string...

I think there isn't at least

exedraj

You don't need an empty string

emanresu A

If you've found one, expect round 11.

@exedraj You're too good at this.

exedraj

Theoretically cracked in roughly under 20 minutes

Get gamed

emanresu A

03:22

I have some more ideas

Go type up your solutoin then.

exedraj

I won't be able to actually do the write up for a bit though

I'm on mobile and I really don't feel like doing tedious stack manipulation on a phond

emanresu A

Oh

So, you figured out my tricks to get arbitrary characters onto the stack and use a series of pair swap join to concatenate it all...

exedraj

Yes

emanresu A

How did you figure it out? Like, what was your thought process?

exedraj

My first thought was "how do I get 1"

And then I go through the elements and remove what's banned

That way I can focus on only relevant elements without being distracted by the banned ones

Next, I saw there was ascii, so I thought "I wonder what happens if I bitnot it"

(it gives -1 btw)

emanresu A

03:27

Oh lol

JS is cursed like that

exedraj

So then I start thinking "negatives? How am I going to combine them?"

And I realise index is also gone

So I abandon that

Bubbler

Bitwise operators in JS are very sane :P

exedraj

I then think "how else can I access stuff from ascii"

And I remember that iterate item splits the tos

user

Bitwise operators are always insane cmv

Also congrats exedraj

exedraj

So then I think "I can pop stuff until I get the relevant letter...but then I have stuff still left over"

emanresu A

03:29

You could actually get 1 with ascii bitnot bitnot not or something, but you can't add numbers.

user

Emanresu, does javastack havr classrs

Or try catch

emanresu A

No

I might add `goto

user

Aww

emanresu A

but that would mean it has to be interpreted

Could be good for C&R tho

Unrelated String

i feel like i'm within like two minutes ofa crack but what the fuck is happening holy shit

i do not understand js

emanresu A

03:33

Cracking my one?

Or something els

Unrelated String

yeah

wait no i see what i did wrong

and now comes the hard part

Bubbler

6

emanresu A

Just test it locally!

Bubbler

Every change is only relevant to the deployment service, so I can't test anything locally

emanresu A

Oh

That is pain

exedraj

03:44

0

A: Print X without X (robber's thread)

Javastack, cracks AUsername's tenth answer ascii iterate (pop until tos is ") (swap pop until " is the only item) ascii iterate (pop until tos is v) (swap pop until stack is "v) pair ascii iterate (pop until tos is x) (swap pop until stack is ["v] x) join ascii iterate (pop until tos is q) (swap ...

emanresu A

Much niceness

Unrelated String

you should probably also post the actual code

exedraj

No that is the actual code

Unrelated String

but yeah that's pretty much what i was about to do

exedraj

@UnrelatedString it'd be way too long

Unrelated String

03:46

i'm generating it right now

emanresu A

That's what I was going to suggest

exedraj

I'm still on mobile, so it'd be a pain to fully write out

Unrelated String

ah

emanresu A

See my comment

Unrelated String

i'll generate it for you lol

Bubbler

03:47

Any feedback on this? Would it be better if I disclose which algorithms are available?

exedraj

@UnrelatedString thank you

emanresu A

@exedraj Generator, input the string to generate

Unrelated String

oh nice you definitely wrote that a lot faster than i did considering i'd already started

although part of the slowdown was that my crack was going to build from m outwards lol

emanresu A

I know the language well

The 2ẇR∑ at the start swaps all pairs of letters.

Adám

@exedraj The language bar seems to work well with the online interpreter.

exedraj

04:01

that's always good to hear ;)

oh heck me when I'm learning css at uni today

Redwolf Programs

It sounds like you're not really getting your money's worth

exedraj

it's a long term game redwolf

a little bit of student debt now for a degree later

emanresu A

@exedraj I'm learning CSS at school

AKA making Pong

Because I'm bored

exedraj

oof and there's an assignment where we have to make/style a site from scratch

and you can't use things like dreamweaver

Redwolf Programs

@exedraj I can give you one of those for free

exedraj

04:07

it's too late for that now redwolf

emanresu A

Add some HTML generation stuff to Vyxal

I guess this shows candidate score isn't everything...

exedraj

I'm already a few thousand in debt and that's from even before I started my first semster

@RedwolfPrograms ^

in student debt that is

all to be payed starting in ~5 years time

what fun. /s

@RedwolfPrograms it's 2021 you sussy baka

Redwolf Programs

What do you mean, I don't remember there being any years after 2019

exedraj

I live in the future remember

Redwolf Programs

Just take your Diplorma, I paid good money to print that

PyGamer0

04:12

@RedwolfPrograms uuh that looks like you just screenshotted that

Redwolf Programs

No, I printed it and mailed it to the TNB headquaters in switzerland

PyGamer0

@RedwolfPrograms *Official Nintendo Seal

exedraj

Apparently this is a valid HTML renderer in Vyxal

emanresu A

PyGamer0

@RedwolfPrograms tnb has headquarters?

emanresu A

04:12

@exedraj ?

exedraj

@exedraj admittedly it doesn't account for CSS, but that's okay

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 Where do you think we keep all the stars?

exedraj

@emanresuA apparently, styling tags are just suggestions. Browsers can ignore certain stuff

so my HTML renderer ignores all tags and displays the HTML as is

5

emanresu A

I somehow don't think that counts as HTML...

PyGamer0

@emanresuA in your house?

emanresu A

04:14

My house isn't that big...

exedraj

@emanresuA I suppose I need to trim the tags from the input

but other than that, yes it is HTML

PyGamer0

@emanresuA no whoever stars the message first; its in their house

Redwolf Programs

tfw you forget stderr exists

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 I'm glad that isn't true, It'd be filled to the brim otherwise...

PyGamer0

pirates be like: std errrrrrrr

Is the people who talk on discord cgcc tnb different from the people who talk here?

exedraj

04:24

it's mostly site veterans on the discord

PyGamer0

i left almost all of the servers on discord

Bubbler

Some who are active on discord aren't active on the site anymore

exedraj

@emanresuA turns out it's also valid for CSS

CSS is also just a suggestion for the browser

ngn

@dzaima @Adám now that dyalog have understood the importance of total order, someone should teach them about total truth value

@Bubbler there's git push -f :)

Adám

@ngn What is that?

ngn

04:29

@Adám every object being either truthy or falsey in a boolean context (not erroring)

Bubbler

Everything be assigned one of truthy or falsy, I guess

ninja'd

ngn

just like every pair of objects is now comparable by grade

Adám

Is that really a useful thing? It would seem easy to end up with JS's mess.

@ngn Maybe something like 0⌈¯1+0 1⍸⊂ ?

That would make any number below 1 false, and any number above 1 true. All empty arrays would be false, and all other character arrays would be true.

And the truth of all non-empty arrays would be determined by the first atomic element.

Oh, and ⎕NULL would be false.

For complex numbers, the imaginary part would be ignored.

ngn

@Adám "below 1 false [..] above 1 true" - that would be very strange. usually 0 is the only falsey numeric scalar.

Adám

Shouldn't 0.75 be true ¾ of the time, randomly?

ngn

04:39

@Adám hm, "first" doesn't sound like a good idea. i think the falsey ones should be either empties or singletons of something falsey or both.

@Adám no

but anyway, my point was that there's value in being able to use any object in a boolean context, however you define it

Adám

I don't really see the value, but I'd be happy if you'd explain.

I personally find it very confusing when JS code says things like if(e.innerText){…

What you really mean is if(0<e.innerText.length){

And things start to break down quickly, because if(a) is if(0<a.length) for a string, but not for an array.

ngn

@Adám take your favourite explanation for total order and replace "compare any pair" with "get the truth value of any"

Adám

@ngn But my favourite explanation doesn't include that phrase.

ngn

@Adám this reads very much like natural language: "if there's inner text"

Adám

@ngn So why not read read if(myarray) as if there is content in myarray?

ngn

04:47

@Adám yeah, why not

Adám

Well, JS doesn't. []?true:false gives true.

ngn

@Adám python does

Adám

I'd rather avoid it then. Everyone (except some BASICs, I think) agrees that 1 is true and 0 is false.

ngn

@Adám i never suggested it should be otherwise

Adám

Right, but languages disagree on other values.

ngn

04:50

(shells swap them but they have good reasons)

Adám

Right, well, do they really?

Isn't it that they have 0 mean OK and 1 mean problem?

Doesn't if 1 still run the block in bash?

ngn

the thing is that if there's an error, the user probably wants to know more about it, so it's better to use non-0 for error, as it can encode ~~more~~ information

1 could mean a certain kind of error, 2 another kind, and so on, while there's only one way things can be okay: 0

PyGamer0

ok my history teaccher is taking us on a virtual tour of a famous muesum

ngn

@Adám you mean if true, bash uses the exit code of the condition

exedraj

@PyGamer0 muesum:visited { /* insert css joke here idk */}

Adám

04:56

@ngn OK, really, one should use test or […], which does in fact give true (0) on 1.

But this is irrelevant. We can all agree that 1 is truthy and 0 is falsy.

ngn

@Adám yes

Adám

All other values might be problematic.

ngn

the question is what to do with non-scalars

Adám

Right.

exedraj

Always consider them truthy and make programmers check for specific conditions?

Adám

04:58

But in APL, [0] and [[0]] are falsy.

emanresu A

@exedraj codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/233258/100664

ngn

@exedraj that's one option. another is to consider singletons the same as their only element and raise an error for non-singletons. another is to consider empties falsy and everything else truthy.

emanresu A

One more, for all the marbles...

Adám

@ngn Nobody actually takes the last route, right?

ngn

@Adám i think it's the best option of these three

Adám

05:00

@ngn Another approach is to consider some empties truthy, and others falsy. Like how in JS, {} and [] are true but "" is false.

@ngn So 0 would be true‽

ngn

@Adám right, i prefer the python way

@Adám no, we're talking about what to do with non-scalars

Adám

Oh, so to be false, scalars have to be some sort of zero, like 0 0.0 false 0j0, and non-scalars have to be empty. So [0] would be true?

ngn

anyway, i gotta go. keep thinking :)

Adám

Why? It hurts!

emanresu A

@exedraj One more challenge

ngn

05:03

it's the best cure for religiosity :)

exedraj

@emanresuA ur code is broken

alphabet "a" "" replace

no works

errors

sussy baka

emanresu A

Oh, TIO

It uses the ES2020 replace all

Adám

Ugh, In JavaScript "" is falsy, but the empty regex is truthy :(

emanresu A

Oh I see

that's very clever

Next round I'm putting them out of alphabetical order

exedraj

doesn't work locally either

emanresu A

05:08

Hm

Adám

Erm, Ruby considers 0 as true.

emanresu A

Check te post again correct link has been added

exedraj

very good

Bubbler

@Adám If you cast "" to String, it suddenly becomes truthy :P

emanresu A

Round 12 since you've kinda got it

Adám

05:13

@Bubbler "".toString()?1:0? Seems to give 0.

emanresu A

@exedraj Have a crack at round 12 now...

exedraj

ez

emanresu A

Oh great

exedraj

you'll probably post round 13 next

here's what I have so far:

"abcegiln" "a" alphabet "a" "" replace "b" "" replace "c" "" replace "e" "" replace "g" "" replace "i" "" replace "l" "" replace "n" "" replace "o" "" replace "p" "" replace "q" "" replace "r" "" replace "s" "" replace "t" "" replace "w" "" replace "x" "" replace "y" "" replace "z" "" replace
iterate pop pop pop swap pop swap pop swap pop swap pop replace

rinse and repeat for each letter

get gamed

emanresu A

I just realised, h is banned, so both your solutions are invalid

All you need to do is replace it with ascii and do some more replacements so that's ez tho

exedraj

05:19

yeah

emanresu A

What was the hardest one so far for you? (I'm guessing the one where you had to coerce true to a string to get the r for char)

exedraj

no

the earlier ones were

emanresu A

Oh because you were still figuring out the language

Bubbler

It's somewhat going towards JSFuck

emanresu A

Really, you think so?

Razetime...

Unrelated String

05:31

it's the stax interpreter's post formatter

emanresu A

Still

exedraj

05:42

@emanresuA round 11 is now valid and horribly cursed

frick you and your trash programming

smh

emanresu A

Why the octuple iterate?

exedraj

not escaping regexes properly

@emanresuA because it undoes the pair pair pair pair pair pair pair

emanresu A

Oops ;)

It is a mediocre polyfill..

exedraj

06:00

@emanresuA posting the crack link here because it was pain

emanresu A

I saw

Very good job

Razetime

@emanresuA meh

spelling mistakes are everywhere

emanresu A

@exedraj Can you walk me through how it works?

exedraj

heck no

because that would assume I still remember how it works

emanresu A

Who is this A username

Prepare to get edit-spammed

PyGamer0

06:07

@emanresuA agreed

Razetime

@exedraj forgetting an answer you posted 8 mins ago.. brilliant.

exedraj

every link from our match

emanresu A

Keep that gist open - it's not over yet...

@exedraj Can I see your inbox?

@exedraj I have one more idea - no more ascii for you!

Adám

Any languages or values I should add here?

emanresu A

06:22

Why is Ruby on rails separate from ruby?

Adám

Because "on Rails" allows more values to be considered Boolean.

PyGamer0

@emanresuA ruby on rails becomes portable

and it is a train

emanresu A

Oh

pxeger

@Adám Python has NaN: bool(float("nan")) = True, as does Ruby±{on Rails}: !!Float::NAN = true

Adám

@pxeger Added.

pxeger

06:28

@Adám in the Unix shell, 0 is true and >=1 is false

(sometimes)

and "" is false in Python

Adám

@pxeger That's there, but added that " " is true.

pxeger

oh my eyes combined those columns into one lol

Adám

I've since aligned them better.

pxeger

and really, space is false in RoR but empty string is true!??!

Adám

I saw that in a presentation, but it is probably a mistake.

PyGamer0

06:40

True and False

2 hours ago, 2 hours 3 minutes total – 143 messages, 9 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 8 secs ago by PyGamer0

emanresu A

@exedraj Round 13 is on.

True and False

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