The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:14

sus

emanresu A

Agreed

@exedraj Let me guess - you're annoyed because I took away stack manipulation, and context, and power, char, charcode, increment, and repeat - your trick of popping undefined from an empty stack was annoying me, so I figured out how to make it useless.

exedraj

maybe length not

emanresu A

facepalms

exedraj

and from there it's trivial

emanresu A

Once you're done

Redwolf Programs

00:28

sus

emanresu A

Starts playing amogus theme

exedraj

@emanresuA alphabet length not not

emanresu A

@exedraj It's the other way round this time - I need to go and think for a while...

length is too OP

user

@emanresuA ejects emanresu A

emanresu A

ejects user

user

00:32

You've already been ejected, silly

Humans can't survive in a vacuum very long, let alone telepathically (kinetically?) cause other humans to be ejected

emanresu A

How do you know that

Impostors aren't humans

exedraj

@exedraj this is extra funny because it also serves as my reaction to the message

emanresu A

Ok, I'm renaming not to logicnot.

You can have a register tho

unget and get because reasons

Oh wait

Oh well

Shaggy

00:49

Guys, it's my birthday and I'm feeling old as f*ck; cheer me up!

emanresu A

Happy birthday to you

Happy birthday to you!

Happy birthday dear Shaggy

Happy birthday to you

Shaggy

@emanresuA ¡Gracias, tío!

emanresu A

@exedraj Actually, I'ma let you keep not for now...

exedraj

emanresu A

Oh lol

exedraj

00:53

question with the bounty just in case you think I'm faking it

Shaggy

@exedraj Ah, danke :)

Newly Featured Posts

17

Q: What is my PIN?

My PIN is 1077, but that's too difficult to remember. I know from muscle memory that it's a digit, followed by a different digit, then followed by two of the same digit, which is different to the other two digits before it. As a pattern, we can say it is ABCC (where each letter represents a digi...

emanresu A

@exedraj I;m not, I saw

@NewlyFeaturedPosts Wow that was fast

exedraj

@NewlyFeaturedPosts thank you NFP

very cool

emanresu A

@exedraj Now what?

exedraj

00:55

@emanresuA alphabet length alphabet length divide

Shaggy

@exedraj (Honestly don't remember answering that challenge! But that's par for the course for me; I've spent far too much time coming up with solutions to old challenges, only to discover that not only had I posted a solution years ago but that it's better than the solution I'd just written, years later!)

exedraj

@emanresuA if I'm reading correctly, these are all I have:

add	(a: number / string, b: number / string)	a + b (addition)
alphabet	(none)	lowercase alphabet
and	(a: any, b: any)	a && b (logical)
append	(a:any, b:non-number)	b.push(a) (string b will produce list of chars and a)
bitand	(a: number, b: number)	a & b (bitwise)
divide	(a: number, b: number)	b/a
equal	(a: any, b: any)	a == b
half	(a:number)	a / 2
index	(a: number, b: any)	b[a] (index a into b)
length	(a: any)	a.length

is that right?

emanresu A

Oh great

I just realised I forgot to document the one thing you need

exedraj

sussy baka

I was going to say - there's no way to get the quote

I can get everything else except the quote

Shaggy

@exedraj, was disappointed earlier on today to discover that Vyxal doesn't have a k built-in for "99 bottles". That disappointment was further compounded when I dug deeper and found there was no built-in to output the lyrics of ... that song.

exedraj

01:06

@Shaggy Vyxal isn't that cheaty ;P

I only optimised for fizzbuzz, not 99bob (that's a joke)

emanresu A

@Shaggy Yes there is - lyxal

exedraj

Oh yeah that's right

I keep forgetting about the things y'all add while I'm asleep

@emanresuA where docs?

Shaggy

@exedraj I'm the Japt guy and even I find Vyxal cheaty at times! :p

exedraj

@Shaggy which is ironic because Japt is where I first saw flags

Shaggy

@exedraj And I agree that some of Japt's flags are, at best, borderline cheaty - there's 2 in particular that I refuse to use - but, as long as consensus says flags are free, I'll keep (ab)using them!

exedraj

01:11

@Shaggy cheers to that!

Finally, someone else who gets it

emanresu A

@exedraj I just realised this is invalid because of a glitch. Give me ~half an hour to fix.

Shaggy

@exedraj Long's we don't venture into Metagolfscript territory, it's all good in my book.

Redwolf Programs

I disagree with that

exedraj

@Shaggy that's pretty much my sentiments too

Redwolf Programs

A small advantage from cheating's the same as a large one in my opinion

tail spark rabbit ear

01:12

How many bits did a byte used to have when Ben Olmstead implemented the Dis (and Malbolge) language in 1998?

Redwolf Programs

Although I don't really want to get into a long argument about it right now :p

exedraj

@tailsparkrabbitear 8?

I wouldn't think the definition of a byte would change over time

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms My opinions on flags are summarized here, just in case anyone's interested :p

Shaggy

But I am starting to get bored of Japt being dead in the water. If I knew anything about language development, I'd come up with my own derivative and there would be absolutely no flags that actually perform tasks.

Redwolf Programs

If you're at all considering trying to write a golfing language, I'd really recommend it!

tail spark rabbit ear

01:15

@exedraj thanks

Redwolf Programs

It's a lot of fun, even if you totally fail at it like I did :p

exedraj

+1 for doing all this on your phone. Let's HighlyRadioactive keeps the challenges coming - this is very entertaining — user Aug 12 '20 at 23:17

@user are you enjoying this years match?

Shaggy

One of the first things I'd implement would be methods with a fixed arity, to get rid of the need for so damned many spaces.

Redwolf Programs

A more modern golfing language that transpiles to JS would be really cool, and if there's anyone on the site with the experience to do so, it's probably you :p

emanresu A

@exedraj Turns out it does work but doesn't work

It' socmplicated

exedraj

01:19

@emanresuA what.

how does something work and workn't at the same time?

emanresu A

It's an unintentional easter egg

Shaggy

@RedwolfPrograms I'mma 'bout to blackout but we'll talk more on this soon ;)

emanresu A

But the current version that works

will be up soon

oen moment

@exedraj Undeleted and fixed

exedraj

ugh

I see how to get the quote now

I've theoretically cracked it

emanresu A

Yeah

exedraj

01:27

because alphabet length alphabet length divide still holds

emanresu A

zpake is slightly questionable name but whatever

exedraj

the hardest part about cracking it is figuring out where in the alphabet each letter is

emanresu A

You might find a a bit tricky to get

It's sorta cheaty

exedraj

can we take a moment to press F for WheatWizard's inbox ;)

emanresu A

?

exedraj

01:34

all our answers

emanresu A

Oh lol

exedraj

because that's 14 new answers in the last day

emanresu A

Oh I see

That's clever

direct-evaling quote

I had 34 char

That's why I added the questtionable zpake

exedraj

lol

emanresu A

You can get 0 by 1 half half half half half half with ~300 halfs

Maybe more

Because gloats

exedraj

01:37

I'll keep that in mind

and never mind the fact that my cracks are probably all in reverse order lol

emanresu A

?

I need some time to think

I have been seriously bamboozled

exedraj

my original 7th accidentally had etouq being eval'd

emanresu A

@exedraj Much good

exedraj

also, good job on timing this so that it's almost exactly a year since my last chain ;)

oh hey aaron

emanresu A

@exedraj That was unintentional

█   █

█   █
 ███

That looks very wrong

emanresu A

02:11

And I guess you can use the time to compose some more rhymes...

exedraj

I'm actually using this time for vyxal dev

emanresu A

That's probably more important

exedraj

eh, it's just context planning

emanresu A

Where is hyper? They've been absent all day...

exedraj

I'm just drafting a rationale for having a context so I can ask in the chatroom whether it should be implicitly passed or explicitly passed

emanresu A

02:15

Is this one object that contains n, variables, global array, etc?

exedraj

no

you'll see shortly

emanresu A

I wll

hyper-neutrino

02:34

@emanresuA what gave you that idea

emanresu A

You being ocmpletely silent recently

@exedraj You will love this one

hyper-neutrino

i literally answered your question on CR

emanresu A

I forgot about that

hyper-neutrino

and have sent messages here, in JHT, and in Vyxal (including some that were directed at you and that you responded to)

emanresu A

My memory is horrible

Oops

very oop

hyper-neutrino

02:36

granted i haven't been as active as usual but that's cuz i haven't felt a reason to be :p

emanresu A

class java { static main } oops

@hyper-neutrino WW's inbox must be overflowing

hyper-neutrino

there has been one entire flag this whole day that i just handled and it was a community auto flag

emanresu A

Was it to do with Lyxal's and my epic battle?

hyper-neutrino

wait, there's also a pair of spam posts that have gone unnoticed for the past three hours

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino How?

Link?

hyper-neutrino

02:45

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23762/68942 and codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23761/68942

unnoticed cuz they are on meta and not main

i only noticed it because i checked the flag dashboard (the flag's actually been sitting around all day but i just haven't bothered to handle it since it's a excess comment flag and those are annoying and low-priority) and noticed two meta flags, because community gave those low answer scores

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino That might be the longest spam flag in meta's history

3hrs 5min was the previous longest

hyper-neutrino

well, technically the spam flag lasted for 0 units of time

community just gave it automatic VLQ flags

i deleted them using spam flags, which instantly validated :p

emanresu A

That's just rude

spamming meta

hyper-neutrino

in other news, doorknob currently has a very epic amount of reputation

69696 rep

emanresu A

Aaw

Unrelated String

02:51

nice

emanresu A

the thing unrenders

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Aww, he had 69666 for a while recently :P

hyper-neutrino

nice

Unrelated String

Dude coinheringaahing

Also, I can't speak to mod actions, but Doorknob literally hasn't taken an action this year :/

exedraj

02:53

@emanresuA just to be clear: add, append, ceil, equal, eval, half, index, zpake are all I have?

Dude coinheringaahing

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/3808/…

hyper-neutrino

@Dudecoinheringaahing he has taken mod actions more recently than that but I don't think I can (/ should) give exact details

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino He's been going round blasting ~~commies~~ spammers :P

exedraj

@emanresuA done

emanresu A

04:09

@exedraj I thought you'd never get that. Amazing job, and I am out of ideas for now.

PyGamer0

04:57

 kinda looks like @pxeger pfp

oh wait;; thats in the nerd font suite

copy and paste that char here

emanresu A

Final feedback?

PyGamer0

@emanresuA looks good to me

emanresu A

Ok

New Posts

0

Q: Obfuscate my ><>

><>, or Fish, is a two-dimensional esoteric programming language where the instruction pointer (IP) toroidally moves around the codebox, wrapping when it hits an edge. ><> has four basic movement instructions - <, >, ^, and v, which respectively mean to change the IP's direction to left, right, u...

code-golf interpreter

emanresu A

^ Tada!

PyGamer0

05:13

@emanresuA Try it online!

sending it here

as it doesnt fit for the problem

i am bad at solving problems

emanresu A

?

It's ok, it'sone of my harder ones

ngn

05:52

why do my fingers always type "git stash poop" instead of "pop"

emanresu A

06:09

No idea

PyGamer0

@ngn do you jitter click on the o?

PyGamer0

06:38

@ngn or are you actually stashing poop

ngn

@PyGamer0 i'd rather not answer that question :D

exedraj

06:56

@PyGamer0 ngn is secretly kayne west

Poopity Scoop 10 Hours

►

emanresu A

Why

pxeger

should we have something like a pattern-recognition tag?

for some abstract meaning of detecting objects that fit a particular pattern

emanresu A

Idk

ngn

07:28

@exedraj impossible. i'm a much better singer

his lyrics are so wise though

emanresu A

08:56

@exedraj Today's fight is not over

I will be back

exedraj

09:29

When do you think you'll stop?

Round 69?

emanresu A

When I run out of ideas

I feel like I should add eval-as-js but I also feel like I'll regret it.

Js can be very cursed, and I want this battle to be mostly fought in Javastack.

Give me a couple of hours

This answer

Unrelated String

adding eval as js would definitely turn a lot of things in general from writing deliberately verbose code to writing golfed js so you don't have to write deliberately verbose code

emanresu A

@UnrelatedString True

For the C&R battle it could work, but...

Unrelated String

yeah

emanresu A

it breaks the language

pxeger

09:45

CMC: Make the Python expression ----....____ return 4

emanresu A

?

How

flags?

"----....____"&&4?

pxeger

nope, the sole expression ----....____

emanresu A

Let me guess - something to do with overloading the variable ____s basic negation or something?

Unrelated String

or uh

setting the ____ field of the ellipsis object

since that's kind of what you're accessing

emanresu A

Is that a thing?

Unrelated String

09:50

although i'm not too sure that

pxeger

clue 1

Unrelated String

's actually possible you can also fuck with attribute access or something

emanresu A

ato.pxeger.com/… doesn;t error...

Unrelated String

i clicked the execute button and it did error

emanresu A

Oh wait no it does

pxeger

09:53

@emanresuA yeah that's a mysterious ATO bug sorry lol

emanresu A

pxeger why did you make it scroll so much

The screen is too big

pxeger

can you show me a screenshot?

emanresu A

It's more that you can't see stderr scrolled all the way up

pxeger

staging.ato.pxeger.com has a different layout (but it's buggy, that's why it's only on staging)

emanresu A

Nope...

pxeger

09:57

that's just defining a completely different class

emanresu A

Dammit

<ight helps omeone

Unrelated String

closest thing I have to a lead is ....__new__(type(...)) is ..., but I suspect that's because it's literally just returning the same object instead of actually creating a new Ellipsis that is considered to be the first one, and there's probably no way to intercept any part of that anyways

emanresu A

This is very curse

d

pxeger

clue 2

Unrelated String

did make me think there could be some kind of pickle hack somehow

oh

emanresu A

10:04

@pxeger That is a red herring

pxeger

it's not supposed to be a red herring

emanresu A

Oh

pxeger

I actually didn't know the same thing applies to user classes

emanresu A

I thought you were trying to show that mappingproxy was special

pxeger

but user classes can still be modified using __setattr__

emanresu A

10:05

somehow

but oh well

Unrelated String

lol

pxeger

I was trying to show that the reason you can't modify it directly is because it has a mappingproxy

emanresu A

Oh

I don't know that much python

I'ma wait for clue 3

Or 4

Unrelated String

i'm doing a bit of cheating like last time i saw an interesting python puzzle lmao

emanresu A

Asking SO?

Unrelated String

10:10

yep

found a library with some very complicated code that i might try to rip off

pxeger

my solution is 4 lines

Unrelated String

oh

pxeger

clue 3a

emanresu A

Is the clue that comment, or the code after that?

pxeger

mainly the comment; you can read the code around it if you want but it's confusing if you don't know the internals of CPython already

Unrelated String

10:15

i would assume the clue is that there is an underlying mapping to be accessed

hence the name mappingproxy come to think of it

emanresu A

@pxeger Could your code be compressed into one line with ; and stuff, or does it have to stay at four?

pxeger

without changing approach it could be 3

emanresu A

Ok

pxeger

it is obviously possible to get it on 1 line with exec("...\n...") though

emanresu A

That's actually quite useful information...

It tells me that you're probably implementing a class

(class ... : \n def ... : \n <code>)

Question 2: Does your approach work without the ----?

pxeger

10:20

yes, the ---- was just a bit of a red herring

emanresu A

You should add a ++++ on the start

then it's four groups of four

pxeger

I don't think it was that important in the puzzle lol

emanresu A

Finally, does it have to be 4, or could it be anything?

pxeger

no it could be anything

that was also just a bit of a red herring

well not anything exactly, but pretty much

emanresu A

Can I have total memory access?

pxeger

10:24

you don't need that

emanresu A

I know - with your challenges you never need that...

emanresu A

11:06

@exedraj My last one for today is a bit crazy, but whatever.

exedraj

@emanresuA so then where is it?

emanresu A

Coming up soon

Give me a few minutes

0

A: Print X without X (cop's thread)

Javastack, score 1 a So simply complex... Up-to-date copy of the interpreter

Teehee

@exedraj ^

exedraj

11:28

w..

what?

that's it?

emanresu A

Yes

exedraj

0 0 divide "" prepend 2 index

ez

emanresu A

facepalfs

Go type up an answer and I'll think of something cleverer tomorrow.

My intended solution was incrementing undefined, but I forgot JS has many ways to get NaN

exedraj

lol

I thought of NaN straight away because I remember seeing it in the earlier rounds when I was first experimenting with Javastack

emanresu A

I'll think about it while I sleep.

exedraj

11:32

Just a heads up: you might want to version your modifications

because what was valid for the first few rounds isn't actually valid anymore

e.g. my third crack uses not instead of logicalnot, because that's what it was called at the time

Anush

12:26

@user hi. are you about?

user

13:14

@Anush 👋

Anush

@user back to my possible challenge... :)

user

Ah, that’s why you asked if I was herw?

Anush

Yes :)

It's all work work work

It might make a CMC if I can find a succinct way of expressing it

user

@pxeger … . ____ = 4?

PyGamer0

14:06

I created a working C++ std::vector<int> in C

so I know C now :P

Anush

:)

@user I have found quite a succinct way of doing it now myself

user

14:32

Nice, what is it?

@exedraj lol yeah

user

15:11

What in the world happened here? (10k+, sorry)

Interesting read: kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/…

pxeger

@user yes, essentially

user

Tried on ATO and timed out because of something lol

user

15:38

CMC: Most cursed way to return multiple values

pxeger

@user import fuckery

ngn

@user assign them to local variables in your caller's environment (for languages that support dynamic scoping)

user

Very ~~disgusting~~ good ideas :)

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger lmao wtf

John Dvorak

@user global out params

pxeger

15:46

@hyper-neutrino Python's import system is best avoided

John Dvorak

think errno

pxeger

that is also quite a bad idea

make them not thread-local for extra accursedness

John Dvorak

to be fair though, Ruby does that with $1 .. $9

(it also provides an argument object with the same data, but let's ignore that for a sec)

pxeger

that one makes some sense

it's a perlism

and on that note, perl's $_

Razetime

@pxeger i remember we talked about weird perlisms in ruby earlier

Adám

15:51

@user That's very good. And true.

pxeger

> People’s names fit within a certain defined amount of space

this is supposed to mean that people's names are sometimes longer than at other times, not that there are people with infinitely long names, right?

user

As I was going through them, I initially thought, "Eh, this is all common sense," but by the end, I was like "wtf"

@pxeger I think it's supposed to mean that no matter what limit you put (20, 50, 100), you should prepare to find someone with a longer name

pxeger

oh

user

'Course, it's unlikely someone with 10k letters in their name will come up :P

> People have names.

How often does this happen?

ngn

@user abandoned children?

user

15:56

Ah, that makes sense

Also people who've forgotten their names, I guess

pxeger

@user we can't tell, because their stories were never written down

user

lol

(wait, that was a joke, right?)

Adám

@user One of my rabbis had a grand child with no name. At least when I last heard of him.

pxeger

@user not even really

user

But was the grand child a small child who simply hadn't been named yet, or were they never going to name him?

@pxeger Oh

Adám

15:59

Still no name when he was many months old…

(I can explain why, if anyone is interested.)

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