The Nineteenth Byte

Aaron Miller

00:01

Some more common codes to use (These are the ones that I most often use): Esc: <Ctrl-R>: <Ctrl-V>: <Ctrl-A>: <Ctrl-X>: <Ctrl-O>:
No idea if you'll be able to copy those from here, though.

Try it online!

@cairdcoinheringaahing If you look at any of my Vim answers, you'll see that that is what I do; just copy the byte. I made a list of all of them in Notepad++, since they all render uniquely, and put them next to the corresponding Ctrl code, and just copy and paste them as needed.

caird coinheringaahing

You can also insert the actual characters into code blocks on CGCC

If you use <pre><code> blocks, you can insert e.g. escape with !

@lyxal Have you tested that? It doesn't work: Try it online!

Plus, by the comments, it looks like it never worked

lyxal

00:17

@cairdcoinheringaahing that's great!

Because then the winner is actually codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/230740/78850

Which is Vyxal

Very cool caird

AviFS

@AaronMiller Ooh, you're right, thanks! Good to know, though I like the <esc> in -v verbose mode, I think, for reading clarity

And so there's no doubt that I'm cheating. Though it does affect TIO's byte count

Which brings to other question: For counting vim, does a chord/combo like <C-R> count as one keystroke or 2?

Aaron Miller

@AviFS As far as readability, I typically use in the TIO and <Esc> in the submission.

AviFS

@AaronMiller But on SE it doesn't render... of course it doesn't, haha

ngn

@AviFS 1

AviFS

@AaronMiller Makes sense, thanks!

@ngn Yay!

A username

00:21

@lyxal I'm trying to fix textarea resizing.

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Use <pre><code> tags and !

lyxal

@Ausername I suppose I should stop my own edits to main.html for a bit then

A username

Its fine, were doing different things./

Aaron Miller

14

Q: How should vim answers be scored?

I like vim a lot. I've been golfing with it a lot recently. We already have clearly established that vim is a programming language, but there aren't any clear rules on how to score vim answers. The main things that I want to clarify are: Do modifiers (shift, alt, ctrl, etc.) count as an extra k...

AviFS

And is it odd/okay then to put 'n keystrokes' in header instead of the usual 'n bytes'?

lyxal

00:22

@Ausername fixing #113 won't interfere with what you're doing?

A username

Nope

lyxal

good

AviFS

@AaronMiller Thanks... I did consider looking

Ah, "Internally, every keystroke corresponds to a single ascii byte." Perhaps then putting "bytes" next to the Vim answer is fine

@hyper-neutrino There's already an amazing lang for complex and expressive unit-conversion calculations like this, see Frink

But here's the idea:

A DSL for calculating the ABV of your mixed drink

Actually, in the the units dictionary they have units as obscure (and alcohol-related) as:

// Modern US Beer capacity
beerbarrel := 31 gallons     // A full beer barrel
keg        := 1/2 beerbarrel // The standard "keg" is a half barrel
beerkeg    := keg
ponykeg    := 1/2 keg
case       := 24 12 floz     // Why not?
beercase   := case

// English wine capacity measures (Winchester measures)

winegallon := 231 britishinch^3 // Sometimes called the Winchester Wine Gallon,
                             // it was legalized in 1707 by Queen Anne, and
                             // given the definition of 231 cubic inches.  It
                             // had been in use for a while as 8 pounds of wine
                             // using a merchant's pound of 7200 grains or
                             // 15 troy ounces.  (The old mercantile pound had

That stuff goes on for pages and pages. But they don't have eg. whiskey := 40 ABV. I suppose that's not always true, but anyway, for convenience the DSL/esolang could have all of those built in

caird coinheringaahing

I don't know about the US, but no one uses those UK measurements :P

AviFS

Of course not, hence ~~useless~~ obscure, haha

And then to do mathematical calculutations in the esolang, you'd have to manipulate and mix alcohols to get you the right number

ngn

00:31

@AviFS let me propose a toast for the continued alcoholic theme in tnb tonight

caird coinheringaahing

Personally, I measure everything in amount of liquid I can soak up in a single 50cm x 50cm towel :P

AviFS

Might be pretty cool actually!! Wait! Imagine, you'd have to write a program (recipe) that would mix a drink whose ABV would approximate pi

A username

tonight? It's noon...

ngn

.. tonight (modulo timezone)

AviFS

@ngn A toast to you, fine Sir!

So perhaps the esolang would look a bit like Chef

caird coinheringaahing

00:33

@Ausername Sounds like a good time for a lunch pint :P

AviFS

In that they'd sort of look like recipes for mixing drinks, but the alcohols would all be constants for different ABVs

I suppose it could be used for sequences

A username

Y'all should go to sleep.

caird coinheringaahing

You could make a Chef version but as cocktail recipes

AviFS

I'm not even tired, actually I am. But still, sounds fun

lyxal

@Ausername they say it's always 5pm somewhere :p

A username

00:34

(except Lyxal, and possible Avi)

lyxal

@Ausername 10 in the morning here

AviFS

I go to bed at 5am, not 5pm :p

A username

@lyxal Yeah, and it's always April Fool's somewhere.

caird coinheringaahing

Given that someone made a Hello, World cake recipes in Chef that is edible, I wonder if you could make a similar one is a Chef-but-cocktails language

The name should be Bartender, of course

A username

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait what? Define edible...

AviFS

00:35

@cairdcoinheringaahing I like that! I'm down!

Imperial could be a modifier for alcohols that meant 'double' I suppose

caird coinheringaahing

mike-worth.com/2013/03/31/baking-a-hello-world-cake

AviFS

Inspired by imperial beers that are usually somewhere around double the alcohol

@cairdcoinheringaahing Trust me, I spent much too long playing with that language

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Imperial units are never used in mixology :P

AviFS

The interpreter is painful and in Java...

A username

Vylight's nice, but a plethora of bugs have come with it.

AviFS

00:37

@cairdcoinheringaahing haha true

caird coinheringaahing

Either jiggers or 30ml measurements is standard

AviFS

Alright, I'm starting the chat room for it, we'll see if we actually do it!

@hyper-neutrino Bartender

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal according to the comments, that submission is invalid

A username

Then you need to update it to my (Lyxal's) one

caird coinheringaahing

ninja'd both of you :P

hyper-neutrino

00:42

I only just came back and saw pings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

or I could just unaccept :thinking:

A username

Ping pong.

hyper-neutrino

anyway

this challenge is so old lol

A username

Ik

caird coinheringaahing

Imagine accepting an answer to a vanilla code-golf challenge, cringe

hyper-neutrino

yeah I am considering unaccepting

I probably did it to get my rep to a multiple of 10 but i have since stopped caring

hyper-neutrino

00:59

how the hell do you output the value of an environmental variable in batch

A username

Idk

hyper-neutrino

nvm I figured it out apparently i just don't have JAVA_HOME specified and when it doesn't detect a variable it just pretends it doesn't exist???

god i hate everything about windows

ngn

@hyper-neutrino echo %VARIABLE% ?

hyper-neutrino

yeah I was trying that but it didn't do anything

but the problem was that the variable didn't exist but you know, descriptive output would be too much to ask for

so it just outputs %VARIABLE% directly instead of saying anything

I really wish whoever made furASM bothered to leave any instructions on how to make this thing run

Redwolf Programs

01:51

NP/SP are almost certainly down

Apparently within hours of me leaving town there was a power outage across half the city and my UPS probably didn't last long enough

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms what a gamer of a UPS

Redwolf Programs

I swear I've never experienced a power outage more than 20m until I actually depend on having power

Also I'm an hour off from my normal timezone for the next four days or so, and probably won't be able to talk much.

My cousin is going to feed my cats some time in the next few days, I'll see if I can have them power my server on again

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms still on vacation?

A username

They're back!

What did you do redwolf?

hyper-neutrino

... I have a copy of the bots on my server lol.

A username

02:00

Oh./

Nice hyper

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms let me know if your copy goes back up

Redwolf Programs

@lyxal No, was home for less than a week and now I'm in New Mexico for something else

lyxal

what about Old Mexico?

what's so terrible about Old Mexico that you decided to go to New Mexico?

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Will do. I'm really sorry for having to make you start your copy all the time, hopefully once I get home from this I can do a better job of keeping things running :p

hyper-neutrino

I mean, I could always just run it on my server permanently :P but I don't mind, it takes me very little time to start/stop it.

Redwolf Programs

02:04

Anyway Greg for a while

lyxal

Hi Greg.

I'm lyxal

Redwolf Programs

Uh gtg not Greg lol

What's wrong with my phone

A username

Who's Greg? (Greg mama)

wasif

02:16

Hi everyone

Aaron Miller

02:34

@lyxal What's your PB for RR% Wikipedia speedrunning? It's surprisingly addicting

lyxal

29 seconds

Aaron Miller

Nice, I guess that's my time to beat. I just got 35.

lyxal

@AaronMiller why else do you think that's what I was doing in class with a friend instead of preparing essays for a major examination?

Aaron Miller

@lyxal 'Cause skool is for foolz

A username

RR% Wikipedia speedrunning?

lyxal

02:38

Random page to random page

Fastest time

A username

Oh. I'm terrible at that.

Aaron Miller

How to do a RR% WIkipedia Speedrun

►

wasif

How to calculate the speedrun

A username

@lyxal Can you use Ctrl+F?

lyxal

@Ausername of course

@wasif the video Aaron linked describes it

wasif

02:41

Nice

A username

Ok, from Bing Yeh to Kōhaku Uta Gassen...

lyxal

I'm on mobile currently, so speedrunning isn't exactly optimal for me rn

A username

1:40 with 4 clicks

Wait no 6

lyxal

Oh, there's a discord btw discord.gg/xBVj7jQ

@Ausername clicks don't matter, time does

My best is 29.17 seconds

A username

Ik

Bing Yeh > Taiwan > Japan > Buddhism in Japan > Japanese New Year > Kōhaku Uta Gassen

so 5

rak1507

02:49

how long does it take you to go from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deze to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuts!

wasif

@rak1507 in worst case number of all articles in wikipedia (linear time)

But hope we can reach there before half

rak1507

oh the nuts page is a list of pages, I didn't even check it

shame

A username

3 minutes this time

It took me ages to get from Kansas City Chiefs to 1995 Kansas City Chiefs season.

lyxal

I have to go for a bit

Enjoy speedrunning

wasif

o/

Aaron Miller

03:11

Imma go for the night. o/

hyper-neutrino

03:34

wow i just spent a few hours debugging and turns out the error was a line of code was indented by one place too far to the right :/

Redwolf Programs

Python?

caird coinheringaahing

Jelly, obviously:P

The central feature of a golfing Lang is significant whitespace

Redwolf Programs

JS actually can error depending on whitespace in some rare situations, due to semicolon insertion

hyper-neutrino

see like

i was about to say this one of those instances where i actually prefer JS because python depends on whitespace and copy-pasting sometimes fucks up indenting because text editor things but like

at least python's indents messing up are, fundamentally, still cuz the code i wrote is wrong, but semicolon insertion breaking code arbitrarily and inconsistently is.......

:/

Redwolf Programs

Also intentional whitespace checking using Function.prototype.toString, but anyone who does that is evil

hyper-neutrino

03:40

lol

Redwolf Programs

Frick

I thought that was newline not enter

Can you do multiline messages on mobile?

A username

Caps+enter?

wasif

@RedwolfPrograms i don't think so

A workaround maybe copy a newline from elsewhere

0
Multiline message from mobile

Use Sandbox chat

For testing

New Posts

04:06

0

Q: Is this a complete Boolean function?

A complete Boolean function is a function can be used to express any Boolean function. For example, NAND \$\left[\begin{matrix}\text{input1}&0&0&1&1\\\text{input2}&0&1&0&1\\\text{output}&1&1&1&0\end{matrix}\right]\$ is complete. Given a Boolean Function with input, check whether it's complete, no...

code-golf

A username

05:40

Hi

lyxal

Howdy

pxeger

\o

lyxal

CMC (vyxal only): Create the largest number possible using only the characters in ₇E-N∑Sŀβ›. Each character can only be used once. Not all characters have to be used.

A username

Hmm...

pxeger

340282366920938463463374607431768211456. ₇E-N

lyxal

05:52

my best is 680564733841876926926749214863536422912

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger the -N there is a no-op lol

pxeger

huh I could swear it wasn't a second ago lol

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal does the code need to push a number to the stack or just output a digit string

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino just output a number/string of digits

A username

₇E› then gives 3402823669209384634633746074317682114561

hyper-neutrino

05:56

well then ₇ES› gives me pxeger's number but with a 1 appended to the end, so I beat both of you by one order of magnitude :p

A username

ninjad

hyper-neutrino

@Ausername no it doesn't

incrementing a number does not append 1 to it

you have to be correct if you want to ninja me :p

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino what a gamer

A username

Sorry

That's what I meant but I forgot the S

CMC: What is the biggest number you can create with one more character of your choice?

hyper-neutrino

can we take one of the current characters and use it again, or do we have to pick a different character

A username

05:58

Reusing is allowed

No crashing the iterpreter tho

pxeger

factorial, probably

hyper-neutrino

yeah just put a factorial after that giant number and ez. won't terminate though

my idea was 10 ** (2 ** 128) but that doesn't terminate either

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino yes it will, with probability 1 in fact

hyper-neutrino

ok like i meant it'll take unreasonably long

but i don't think it crashes the interpreter tho

pxeger

it will only require on the order of 3e41 bytes of memory

hyper-neutrino

06:08

nice

Anush

My new favourite bash one liner

grep -Em1 "^.{$(wc -L <file.txt)}\$" file.txt

Can anyone work it out?

pxeger

get the longest line (tiebreaker: first) in the file

Anush

Very nice!

hyper-neutrino

that would've been my guess but I looked up wc to confirm that's what -L did and got ninja'd :(

Anush

I am impressed

pxeger

06:15

grep -xEm1 ".{`wc -L<file.txt`}" file.txt

that's shorter

Anush

Nice use of x

How about if your file has three columns and you want the line with the longest first column?

pxeger

what's the column separator? tab?

Anush

space

One space

pxeger

something like grep -Em1 "^.{`cut -d\\ -f1<file.txt|wc -L`}( |$)" file.txt?

Anush

Can you explain the ( |$) part?

pxeger

06:22

either followed by a space, or the end of the line, because the file might have only 1 column

Anush

I love it

pxeger

it should probably be [^ ] not .

Anush

I wonder if there is shorter Perl one liner

Or even python?

pxeger

max(map(lambda s:s.split(" ")[0],open("file.txt")),key=len)

hyper-neutrino

how cursed is this python code:

return attrdict(arity = 2, call = (lambda f: f(f))(lambda f: lambda x, y: map(lambda a: f(f)(a, y), x) if isinstance(x, (list, sequence)) else ut(link.call)(x, y)))

pxeger

06:30

somewhat

A username

very

pxeger

I like combinators, so I don't think I can say it's too cursed

EliteDaMyth

cant read

Anush

@hyper-neutrino you are doomed

No one does Perl one-liners any more :(

hyper-neutrino

@EliteDaMyth lambda f: f(f) is a pretty standard combination (Y, I think?) that calls f on itself

useful in combination with the latter part, lambda f: lambda x: ...

basically, it lets you do in-line recursion without needing to name a variable for a reference

f = lambda x: ... f(x) ... is equivalent to (lambda f: f(f))(lambda f: lambda x: ... f(f)(x) ...)

EliteDaMyth

06:34

@hyper-neutrino i get that part, following through after the x, y: gets messy

hyper-neutrino

ah

well if x is a list or sequence, then it maps lambda a: f(f)(a, y) (recursively call f with a, y) on x (basically, map over left argument)

and otherwise just calls the link (function parameter) on the arguments (ut is short for untrampoline which just means that this function cannot tail-call-optimize so it discards the trampoline state and just directly evaluates it)

see the thing is this code is objectively abhorrent and unreadable to a sane human but a) making it look "nicer" would actually involve more code and b) i can read it fine because the (lambda f: f(f))(lambda f: lambda x: ...) / (lambda f: lambda x: f(f, x))(lambda f, x: ...) combination is familiar and also mapping over weird lambdas made to act as partial functions is also familiar

tl;dr coding style sucks but it's still readable because my coding style is consistently bad :)

pxeger

why not at least name the combinators

Y = lambda f: f(f)

hyper-neutrino

eh good point. i don't really use it much atm but i probably will end up using it more eventually

Anush

Can this be shortened with the right flags?

perl -e 'while(<>){
$l=length;
$l>$m && do {$c=$_; $m=$l}
} print $c' file.txt

pxeger

-n to replace while(<>){}

put the print $c in a END{} block

Anush

06:51

cool

@pxeger can you show how to do that?

pxeger

perl -ne '$l=length;
$l>$m && do {$c=$_; $m=$l}
END{print $c}' file.txt

Anush

nice

I wonder if it is shorter in any other language

pxeger

CMCnR: shorten this Python code to produce an equivalent iterable in g given c:

def f(c):
 while 1:yield c()
g=f(c)

A username

Hi

:}

pxeger

\o

A username

07:02

Bye

How does Area 51 rep work?

PyGamer0

07:16

what is area 51

hyper-neutrino

area 51 is SE's site staging place where you can propose and launch new stack exchange sites

i think association is 150 there but i have no idea really

there's yet another cryptocurrency proposal? sigh

PyGamer0

hmm what about the one which other people talk about

they say its somewhere in us

hyper-neutrino

oh the military testing zone?

yeah it's government property somewhere in the us that they do stuff with. idk exactly what

lyxal

07:43

CMC (vyxal only, again): Create the longest output possible using only the characters in 447u∇ṡ∴nq. Each character can only be used once. Not all characters have to be used.

pxeger

07:57

@pxeger CMSafe: g=iter(c,object())

A username

09:07

lyxal

Ha

Gotem

hyper-neutrino

09:29

oh nice the sun is coming up very soon. i should probably go to sleep then

pxeger

My reputation is 1 less on main than it is on meta

obligatory shouldiblamecaching.com

but why

A username

Flag?

I got 1 rep for my first flag

At least I think that's what it was...

hyper-neutrino

that's not a thing

A username

hm

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger does codegolf.stackexchange.com/reputation offer any insight?

pxeger

09:40

well I already know why my reputation went down to 6999: because I downvoted an answer

Anush

do you think Christian Sievers has left ccgc too?

he is a genius

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger oh, I guess we don't get to see those in your reputation record

pxeger

but why is it still 7000 on meta? caching? But it's been several hours

Anush

this is the last thing he did codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/205914/98590

A username

@pxeger @pxeger I'll upvote you twice, and you give me a 50 rep bounty.

hyper-neutrino

09:41

well given that he was last seen like a year ago I'd say he's inactive

@Ausername christian sievers already beat you to the funny number

pxeger

@Anush maybe they left because their reputation is really nice and they didn't want to ruin it

Anush

@pxeger maybe.. but I doubt it :)

we should have a running total of the average IQ of recent CCGC users

pxeger

ah yes, IQ, the famously entirely unbiased way of measuring people's intelligence

Anyone here played Baba Is You?

ngn

IQ is the perfect metric of how good you are at solving IQ tests :)

10

pxeger

and very little else

N3buchadnezzar

10:55

@pxeger I am attempting it, but it is so difficult. I think I got to level 6 or 7

Just started over again to see if it goes better this time around

pxeger

Currently on 4-1

N3buchadnezzar

It just becomes so gosh darn difficult

A username

Link?

pxeger

hah yes

store.steampowered.com/app/736260/Baba_Is_You

N3buchadnezzar

I think my favorite one is the second or third level in the entire game

Where I solved it by turning into the wall

pxeger

10:57

that's the whole shtick of the game

N3buchadnezzar

@Ausername Here is a video of someone playing through the first few levels youtube.com/watch?v=QUOJrZpz07A Be warned spoilers ahead

pxeger

a fellow CarlSagan42 viewer?

how cultured

I'm watching his VOD of Baba right now

N3buchadnezzar

I've yet to watch it =) But yeah, usually his streams is a feelgood place to be

EliteDaMyth

11:41

i've spent way too much money on games

steamcommunity.com/id/EliteDaMyth

pxeger

jfc

caird coinheringaahing

12:02

@NewPosts OP really needs to start using the Sandbox again

Every single one of their most recent challenges have been posted, been closed, then maybe edited and reopened

pxeger

git rebase is op

I only wish it could leave the commit dates untouched so it's less obvious I went back and fixed all my fuckups

ngn

12:28

@pxeger see git-shift

caird coinheringaahing

13:05

@hyper-neutrino Does this link take you to a specific nomination , or does it just show the election page?

Also, any non-mod is welcome to answer ^ as well :P

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing just the election page

lyxal

^

caird coinheringaahing

Same for me

I suspect that for a mod, it shows the actual nomination that it links to

Graph: shows the number of "posts" on the site, for the 8 different types of posts according to SE, switchable on an input field

hyper-neutrino

13:41

@cairdcoinheringaahing just the election page

are you sure 75943 is even the right number

this link takes me to Dennis's nomination even when logged out

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino that works for me too

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Yes, take a look at this SEDE query

6 is the PostTypeId for mod nominations. That query says the CJY nominated himself (or, posted a nomination) in the 2016 election, but the link (above) doesn't go anywhere

pxeger

14:01

@cairdcoinheringaahing codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/75945 is, um, interesting

hyper-neutrino

that's weird

i don't think riker has run for mod either?

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, there are multiple such links for the first 2 elections. They aren't comments, as cat posted a comment but isn't in the query, and they aren't all nominations, as CJY, Blue, Neil, Oliver Ni, Addison Crump etc. never nominated themselves

pxeger

maybe they started writing one, or something, but it wasn't published?

hyper-neutrino

but that shouldn't be in the database

pxeger

Is that the same Neil as the current active Neil? If so, we can ask them what they think might have happened

caird coinheringaahing

14:04

No, different Neil

pxeger

oh

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger No, or else I'd be in there fore the 2018 one

I considered nominating myself, then realised that I had like 5k and had been around for about a year and thought better of it :P

Also @hyper-neutrino are you able to see the history of the tour page? For example, can you see when the example question was changed and what it was before?

hyper-neutrino

14:27

@cairdcoinheringaahing I can see the history of the top excerpt and the "ask about" and "don't ask about" boxes in the "get answers to practical, detailed questions" section

caird coinheringaahing

14:42

Should this be red-flagged?

user

I don't think so

hyper-neutrino

I don't think it matters much because it's not technically particularly R/A and also doesn't really advertise something / promote anything, but it's also not like I care about protecting this user's non-existent rep or account.

looks like failed / incorrectly executed spam TBH

caird coinheringaahing

I'd consider it as rude and/or abusive under this definition - "everything that would be out of place in polite discourse is rude or abusive"

In any case, it should be deleted

hyper-neutrino

okay I've gone ahead and red flagged it more or less for the explicit purpose of feeding the IP to spamram

i should've done that through review

caird coinheringaahing

Spamram?

hyper-neutrino

14:47

SE's internal spam crunching system. I don't know too much about it and probably couldn't say that much even if I did, but basically if IPs generate spam SE will throttle / block them.

Was Downgoat ever a mod here?

caird coinheringaahing

No

N3buchadnezzar

scratches head

How would I test if something is done in sublinear time? My thought was I could time my function for different outputs and somehow compare em. My thought was somewhat
time f(x) and f(y) and then do log(f(y))/log(f(x)) given y > x, would that work?

hyper-neutrino

time complexity is usually done with analysis, not testing timing

N3buchadnezzar

Oh I know, the algorithm is supposed to be sublinear, I just want to see if I can verify it

pxeger

@N3buchadnezzar not easily

@hyper-neutrino laughs in extreme laziness

user

14:56

@hyper-neutrino What if the IP belongs to a public computer?

hyper-neutrino

@user then rip that public computer

user

:(

N3buchadnezzar

@pxeger Cant I just time X and 2X and check if the new time is less than double of the old time?

Transcript for