The Nineteenth Byte

ophact

16:01

Voting is a little quick today, is it not?

hyper-neutrino

this is a cool challenge but seems a bit easy TBH because the slice location doesn't matter actually

caird coinheringaahing

Isn't the surface area of a 3x2x1 cuboid 24?

Or can I not multiply?

Redwolf Programs

I get 22

caird coinheringaahing

Maybe I can't multiply then :P

hyper-neutrino

3x2=6, 2x1=2, 1x3=3, 6+2+3=11, 11x2=22

rak1507

16:05

      (2+.××/÷⊢) 3 2 1
22

ophact

What language is that?

rak1507

APL

Redwolf Programs

Is there a word for a rectangular prism/cuboid, with any number of dimensions?

Wasif

Hi everyone

Today was a busy day

rak1507

hypercuboid?

@Wasif how come

Wasif

16:08

@ophact why you think so

@rak1507 ??

rak1507

why was it busy

ophact

@Wasif well usually, questions take a little longer to get 4-5 votes.

Normally it's about half an hour

Wasif

@rak1507 a lot of online classes

rak1507

ah

Wasif

@ophact well the TNB removing question got 6-7 upvotes in 2 mins

ᴅᴀɴɪᴇʟッ

16:10

@hyper-neutrino hello i was just lurking around the sites

ophact

@Wasif yes, that one was highly popular

pxeger

FGITW is real... 2 upvotes in 20 minutes on a challenge with really no room to do anything interesting whatsoever with the golf (at least in most C-style languages)

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino My first attempt was 16, then 13, but I golfed during the grace period :P

Razetime

@pxeger ais has an analysis on meta

user

@pxeger 2 upvotes in 20 minutes isn't much. Post an assembly answer and you'll get 10 in as many minutes

ophact

16:21

@pxeger yes. My 55 byte answer to Gabriel has 2 votes while my 91 byte chess answer has 1 vote. Despite the latter obviously requiring more effort.

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Golf for the fun of it, not for the upvotes

The site becomes a much better place if you try to ignore the temptation to "game" it, and instead golf stuff you find interesting

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh lol :P well the dot product trick here is very nice

wouldn't have thought of that

ophact

There are plenty challenges that are quite uninteresting, for instance, most of the trivial OEIS challenges that are just a matter of implementing a complex-looking but pre-programmed formula from the OP. In those cases, even just ctrl-c, ctrl-v-ing the formula with a few changes suffices to garner ten upvotes. These challenges have pages of answers, while the interesting ones, like the Omer challenge, have almost no answers and less views. That's the fundamental problem.

Don't take my message the wrong way, btw, I was NOT asking for upvotes on the Omer challenge.

hyper-neutrino

voting on SE and specifically CGCC has, unfortunately, always had problems like this

caird coinheringaahing

@NewMainPosts CMC: This, but instead of 10, you take a second input n which is the number of "steps" to output

hyper-neutrino

16:33

the FGITW effect, the HNQ effect, and many other factors are issues that we've known about forever and done nothing about because... there isn't really much we can do

we can point it out and suggest better usage of votes but you can only try to convince people to follow that

and that only applies to people who see it, which does nothing about the HNQ effect

@cairdcoinheringaahing ŒcP€Uæ.Ɱ⁵Ḥ but instead of ^5 you have ^4 :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Imagine needing ⁴, when you can instead not use it :P

hyper-neutrino

oh yeah

you're right

damn i keep getting 2,1 mixed up between the two arities

ophact

JavaScript, 56 bytes (x,y,z,n)=>[...Array(n)].map((_,i)=>2*(++i*y*z+x*y+x*z))

user

Hi @Razetime!

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing exactly the same as my existing answer, but replace 10 with $4

Razetime

16:44

hi

imma sleep soon

user

Didn't expect to see you here at this time

Razetime

got an exam tomorrow

bit of late study

user

Good luck then

CMQ: This is slightly off-topic but more on-topic than waffles: What's your favorite conversation/message in TNB?

Definitely not asking this because I'm bored

Redwolf Programs

The start of the hivemind was pretty good

Wzl

I like what I say :P

user

16:50

@RedwolfPrograms Ah, you mean the Big Bang? :P

Redwolf Programs

Well, the start of y'all knowing about the hivemind

user

@Wzl Well I dislike most of what you say. Take that (/s)

Redwolf Programs

You and Lyxal seem to be quite loyal to the hivemind, as well

You're not like other people, who decide they want to take power and end up exiled

user

lol there's a conversation here involving wolves and hiveminds. Very suspicious

@RedwolfPrograms Oh yes of course

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms where do I fit in this... system then :p

Redwolf Programs

16:53

Well you're a sockpuppet of me

Remember?

caird coinheringaahing

@user Not so much conversations, but I like the occasional random positive personal announcements here :P

hyper-neutrino

wait I thought it was the other way around. you created me?

Redwolf Programs

Might be

I'll consult the chart™

hyper-neutrino

well you did a very bad job if that's so

user

I can't tell if you're insulting Redwolf or yourself

hyper-neutrino

16:55

yes

Redwolf Programs

Okay it seems you're a sockpuppet of your old account, and the hivemind is a dual-sockpuppet of both redwolf10105 (my sockpuppet) and you

caird coinheringaahing

@user Microbits. Dennis got tenure. DJ getting married etc.

rak1507

wholesome TNB moments

user

Makes me almost nostalgic despite not being there myself

hyper-neutrino

how did I miss all three of those?

also now I'm sad again

rak1507

16:57

I think my favourite message is chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/57947233#57947233

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Interestingly, that's the only message I both posted and starred :P

hyper-neutrino

ro abuse !!12@

Wzl

oh, for my most favorite message, definitely chat.stackexchange.com/…

user

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

caird coinheringaahing

May 11 at 1:24, by hyper-neutrino

omg ro abuse !12

Wzl

17:05

pelase help me cause rickrickrolling, pelase don't make it offtopic

^ that's one of my favorite messages

caird coinheringaahing

17:44

LotM posts by View Count

Wzl

nice

Redwolf Programs

18:18

Custom Fonts hit +50 score lol

It's quite close to being my top post network wide

hyper-neutrino

nice :P

a lot of people: ew the new font changes suck
redwolf: it's free real estate

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Scala's at the bottom :(

pxeger

Fun fact: Kolmogorov (known here for his complexity theory) has one of just about any mathematical idea named after him. He has:

>

    Fisher–Kolmogorov equation
    Kolmogorov axioms
    Kolmogorov equations (also known as the Fokker–Planck equations in the context of diffusion and in the forward case)
    Kolmogorov dimension (upper box dimension)
    Kolmogorov–Arnold theorem
    Kolmogorov–Arnold–Moser theorem
    Kolmogorov continuity theorem
    Kolmogorov's criterion
    Kolmogorov extension theorem
    Kolmogorov's three-series theorem
    Convergence of Fourier series
    Quasi-arithmetic mean (it is also called Kolmogorov mean)

user

CMC: Print that list ^ kolmogorov-complexity :P

pxeger

equations, axioms, laws, tests, spaces, integrals, inequalities, complexities, functions, theorems, paradoxes, automorphisms, filters, dimensions

hyper-neutrino

18:34

can we print - instead of em-dashes

also can we ignore diacritics

pxeger

yes

and no

hyper-neutrino

okay

pxeger

~~although I can't see any diacritics~~ ah, "Fréchet"

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Euler: Pathetic

:P

pxeger

lol

hyper-neutrino

18:37

771 in jelly just using basic string compression:

https://tio.run/##HVR/UxNXFP0qKiKipgVLVTqIMKCUKqix/kKxQAWtqGAtCloZEmJCE21LMkOirZpIEqY2YhIbsi8LYebdt2928y1uvog96x@Z7L5997xzzzn33Rq/fXvu06f6wt@qYC3o0C6vfNvKlT90Qq6zUaz5z3vtdZ2ZYPH2Bw9lZYresEjIj2w8deKTTyjPokrVITbeOnEdqvs2uJKiEBk9LPwskiOH7jQdZxFnM72fslxJ4nmUzbAOseGf67Kze7DPTrN4SVUUD6OEQl9Mj1Fw0CkeZREAPBtpuXGRRVBu9Oh0D/0Jelz53YmBiCqwsTgzxZWluj/Xx5Wg/QEwVpTy5@RWG@rlximA22sscvhQS14Gm/ctagUHXUWJ51c2S55vwerMNTJ6QfDSWSo0X6OE/WEHdrazeEoBei0zbD6fVNtsPGcRetxop71Q5zSb/83ILRzQ3XuBxV9WbKC/u@YnY4qN1wf1exQPsVg8X/dVQXigXlg/hV@3CoMoeO8D7X1svHlCCTafcSXUMQo17uuw…

click see full text if the link doesn't work

very boring solution :p

Wzl

being able to look up numbers i wikipedia might be my favorite thing about it

hyper-neutrino

didn't even bother replacing Kolmogorov with something to use a translate operation with

pxeger

@Wzl you mean like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/445?

hyper-neutrino

just replaced the accented e with 0 so it could be compressed

Wzl

@pxeger yes

ngn

18:39

@pxeger also: the kolmogorov option

rak1507

also the kolmogorov roll

user

Not clicking on that

rak1507

shh

user

At least use a different link

caird coinheringaahing

It's some dude calculating the minimum amount of code it takes to output the lyrics to the rickroll :P

rak1507

18:44

lol

Redwolf Programs

My favorite musician, Kolmogorov Astley

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing exactly :P

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Wouldn't it be Rick Kolmogorov?

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing you should get them to post an answer here

pxeger

@RedwolfPrograms Andrey Astley

caird coinheringaahing

18:45

Kolmogorov Rick. Turned himself into a computer scientist, funniest shit I ever saw

user

CMC: Trivia question: Why is the rickroll named so?

hyper-neutrino

rickolmogorov

rak1507

kolmogorick

pxeger

@user ooh! I know this one! There was some similar 4chan prank involving a something-roll, which was mutated into various pranks until a Rick Astley-based one which happened to stick

user

A duckroll, I think, which originally came from an eggroll

caird coinheringaahing

18:48

Duckroll

Redwolf Programs

Whoever Richard Roll is, I really hope they go by Rick

pxeger

Dick roll doesn't sound too good eh

6

user

Why is that even a nickname for "Richard"? Never understood that

Redwolf Programs

There's a link to the wikipedia page on rickrolling in the wikipedia page on rickrolling (which is linked to in the wikipedia page on rickrolling)

user

Yeah, "duckrolling" just goes back to that page. That annoys me so much

ngn

18:51

@user it's a tricktroll with a silent t

caird coinheringaahing

> The image was a photo of the young pop star riding around on a bicycle backstage in Las Vegas on his very first tour.

> > undefined

What a touching photo

A username

20:12

Hello

Bye

caird coinheringaahing

20:46

@hyper-neutrino You ninja'd me with cracking Makonede's cop by about 20 seconds due to my crappy wifi :/

hyper-neutrino

oof :/

i got distracted by the edit and also tried rationalizing whether that would be a valid solution for like 2 minutes :P

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, I had to read the cops/robbers rules like 5 times to know if just quitting was allowed

rak1507

htwins.net/prisoners-dilemma hey cool it's like a KOTH but there's real money in it

hyper-neutrino

I spent a while trying to figure out a custom object that would return another custom object with x == x which would be falsey when to_be or not to_be was evaluated

but unfortunately, logical OR and NOT cannot be overwritten

and a or not a will always be truthy

never mind i have been disproven

kinda hacky with stateful functions though. but i think it's the only way to work

caird coinheringaahing

Oh, so not x must be sugar for not bool(x). Interesting

hyper-neutrino

20:59

yeah I believe so

ngn

@rak1507 flood it with sumbissions that cooperate among themselves and screw the outsiders => profit

rak1507

yeah, not optimistic about how legit the process will be

so I'm probably not going to bother

but it could be interesting to do it

hyper-neutrino

how does one manage to mess up markdown this badly

also do people not like look at the preview and realize something's wrong or smth, lol

hyper-neutrino

21:31

i hate how last week it was cold enough to wear a jacket/coat and today it's 30 degrees in my room right now

spring doesn't exist in canada

Adám

I miss Canada.

hyper-neutrino

i wonder how redwolf survives with texas weather :p

@Adám it's a nice place overall. what part did you like here in particular, if there was anything specific?

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Well, I only ever experienced Montréal and the Laurentians.

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Not Adám, but whenever I go I really like the vibe. Don't know how to explain it past that tho tbh

hyper-neutrino

user has some differing opinions about canada :P

user

21:41

I didn't have great experiences there

Our French class took a trip to Quebec once, and it wasn't fun at all. I went to a Subway once and ended upp with a 10 dollar sub and some weird orange tea instead of a Three Cheese sandwich and black tea

ngn

i have an aircon :P

rak1507

Do you even need one? From what I remember you live in an eastern european country, aren't they generally quite cold?

hyper-neutrino

we will probably need to turn ours on soon :p

in the meantime i might get a fan

ngn

@rak1507 where i live now it gets really hot in summer and (less often) could get really cold in winter

user

@hyper-neutrino Don't forget these two too

ngn

21:47

@rak1507 i'm more afraid of the summer heat

rak1507

yeah, heat is harder to deal with than cold in general, luckily we don't get much of that in scotland :P more rain

Adám

Agreed. When it is cold, I can always put on more clothing, but when it is too hot, what exactly do you want me to take off…?

hyper-neutrino

cold is easier to handle because i can wear more but i can't wear less than my skin

rak1507

@hyper-neutrino not with that attitude

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Ninja'd!

user

21:48

Well, you can turn on the A/C, but that's expensive, and it isn't available outside :(

Adám

@user It is, but then it is even more expensive.

user

There are portable air conditioners?

hyper-neutrino

in grade 5/6 my school didn't have A/C and we were on the top floor, with windows facing the sun in the afternoon, with old windows that didn't really insulate against heat or whatever

user

I guess one could move to Mars and wear a spacesuit all the time, but that's probably expensive too

hyper-neutrino

on my last day there they finally decided to put a portable A/C unit and it used so much power that it overloaded a power bar / power source or something and took down 5 computers with it

user

21:52

@hyper-neutrino Reason 5 to avoid Canada: Lack of A/C's

Adám

@user Space suits are basically that.

hyper-neutrino

it didn't have an A/C due to like "historical significance" or smth but they should just turn it into a museum if it's that important and not put kids in it

ngn

@rak1507 the british isles are really lucky in terms of weather

hyper-neutrino

mentioned this before but at my high school i remember at least 3 people fainting due to heat since it only had A/C in a few rooms

rak1507

Not convinced... I guess the grass is always greener

user

21:53

You can't leave us hanging like that. Where is it greener? I need to know so I can go there!

Adám

@user I've had A/C everywhere I lived in Canada.

ngn

@user it's greener where you don't live right now :)

user

@Adám I guess you were just lucky, then. I'm not taking any chances :P

@ngn Huh, so I can make the rest of the world greener just by not living there? That sounds pretty cool :P

hyper-neutrino

if I die will the entire world become slightly greener?

user

Quito sounds like a nice place to live, but I might have to learn a new language

rak1507

21:58

@Adám I think it's also how bad it is at either extreme, I loved being in a warm country on holiday when there was AC, and I hated being in a cold country with bad insulation, but it doesn't mean I like heat and dislike cold

user

@hyper-neutrino Are you feeling all right or just joking?

hyper-neutrino

@user I'm entirely just joking, dw :P thanks for asking though

rak1507

@hyper-neutrino depends if the rest of your life will use more CO2 than your cremation/burial, which considering you are relatively young is probably, yes!

ngn

@rak1507 it could also vary within a country

rak1507

@ngn yep

user

21:59

@hyper-neutrino No you're not, you're hyper neutrino

hyper-neutrino

ಠ_ಠ

user

(but seriously, it's good you're joking)

hyper-neutrino

I tone down jokes about death a lot here, probably should just avoid it entirely lol

user

Probably all right as long as no one objects

hyper-neutrino

@user no I'm hy-

user

22:01

You mods and ROs probably need to set a better example, although we normal users can be as silly as we want :)

hyper-neutrino

@user Well if anyone objects I will definitely stop, of course. I just meant to avoid people worrying about it when there's nothing to worry about. Also ^

user

@hyper-neutrino Are you now?

caird coinheringaahing

> When __bool__() is not defined, __len__() is called, if it is defined, and the object is considered true if its result is nonzero. If a class defines neither __len__() nor __bool__(), all its instances are considered true.

Wut

user

Truthiness in Python?

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah

hyper-neutrino

22:03

@user yes, I am a cuttlefish

user

This is why you use a strongly, statically typed language such as Scala * ducks *

caird coinheringaahing

So if you implement your own class that has a __len__ attribute, but you forget/don't know about __bool__, you're going to be very surprised. Even worse if you don't have a __len__ attr

user

@user Although Scala is actually kinda weakly typed. Kotlin's a lot nicer when it comes to that

caird coinheringaahing

@user I feel like the entire language name was chosen just so that the example grettings program can make that joke :P

hyper-neutrino

that's why I don't call logical boolean operators on things that aren't lists, numbers, or booleans, usually :p

rak1507

22:05

@user or like haskell

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing empty collections are falsy. what's surprising about that?

user

@rak1507 Yeah, Haskell is nice and strongly typed, and the type system's pretty good, even if it seems to be a bit less powerful than Scala's

rak1507

Haskell's type system is less powerful than Scala's?!?!?!?!

caird coinheringaahing

@ngn Its more the fact that the fallback is len. If Jelly integers (for example) used their own type instead of int, they'd always be true unless they had a specifically defined bool attr, as they all have a length of 1

user

@rak1507 No subtyping, for one. That means type inference is ridiculously good, but it's an obstacle

rak1507

22:08

Ehh fair enough

user

idk the more advanced features of Haskell, so I'm probably missing a lot, but Scala has match types, type members, type lambdas, and an AnyKind type to abstract over kinds, which is pretty nice

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing i guess python assumes that if you have __len__(), it must be a collection

user

I guess that's not unreasonable

ngn

it's not unreasonable to treat len() of an int as 1 either..

caird coinheringaahing

No, but it does mean that len based truthiness fails for 0

rak1507

22:12

@ngn array languages have rotted your mind :P

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing only if you forget __bool__()

caird coinheringaahing

@ngn Ngl, I don't think I've ever defined a __bool__ method :P

rak1507

I barely mess with dunder methods, apart from when I define __irshift__ to be able to make my python look like haskell with >>=

user

lol

caird coinheringaahing

23:04

29 bytes in Jelly, for a primes based challenge ಠ_ಠ

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing is jelly good at such challenges?

caird coinheringaahing

@ngn Yeah, Jelly's typically best at math, primes and array-manipulation challenges

Interestingly, there are no code golf challenges with all three of those tags

ngn

"primes" sort of implies "math"

caird coinheringaahing

There are 3 without math

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing does jelly have something like "interval index"? i.e. for each element of a given list, find where it would land in another, sorted list

caird coinheringaahing

23:17

@ngn I think Jelly's regular i index-of function should work? Try it online!

The Ɱ is simply because Jelly doesn't understand that a list cannot be "in" another flat list

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing that searches for exact matches. i was thinking of something that would find an index i such that a[i]<=x<a[i+1] (where "a" is the sorted list)

btw, ÆR makes it impossible for me to beat it with any of the languages i know

caird coinheringaahing

@ngn As in, given x and a (sorted), find i such that a[i] <= x < a[i+1]?

No, I don't think Jelly has that

Bubbler

23:37

@user Does that mean I can prove things in Scala...?

Newly Featured Questions

29

Q: Parenthifiable Binary Numbers

If you express some positive integer in binary with no leading zeros and replace every 1 with a ( and every 0 with a ), then will all the parentheses match? In most cases they won't. For example, 9 is 1001 in binary, which becomes ())(, where only the first two parentheses match. But sometimes ...

Unrelated String

that bounty message

lyxal

> Unrelated string wrote a vyxal program somewhat related to strings. That's gotta be ironic somehow.
Bounty because lotm reasons

user

23:54

@Bubbler You can kinda use implicits as proof of stuff, but only to an extent

Unfortunately, you can't return implicit erased values. Kotlin's contracts can kinda help with that, but it doesn't have implicit parameters :(

lyxal

Aight bets for whether or not VS Code will be helpful today are once again open.

user

$50 on it being helpful

lyxal

ighto we'll see how it goes

user

(plan B in case it's not helpful: $50 = -50) :P

lyxal

So far so good. Why couldn't you have bet $50 on helpfulness earlier when I actually wanted it to be helpful?? ;p

user

23:58

Give me your time machine and I'll do it :P

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