The Nineteenth Byte

I mean just try to count 2 things. You can say negative one, zero, one, two, but you are just saying things, you already know how much there are since you can see.

hyper-neutrino

8:19 PM

I can't

StackMeter

@cairdcoinheringaahing are you serious

Wheat Wizard

You need at least 3 of it before you can need to count it.

Redwolf Programs

Well now there's 3 stars

hyper-neutrino

i hate that this is slowly making more and more sense. can't believe I am being convinced that 2 is not a number

5

Redwolf Programs

The frick's a 2

You mean a pair?

It goes 1 to 3

StackMeter

8:20 PM

no

hyper-neutrino

no i don't mean a pear, i mean an APL

StackMeter

2 = 1 + 1

hyper-neutrino

I think you mean 1 + 1 = a pair

StackMeter

math is defined on such

Redwolf Programs

2 is just that weird symbol below @

You sometimes use it in numbers like 12

Wheat Wizard

8:22 PM

That's a dozen

StackMeter

below @

you mean below F2

Redwolf Programs

Below the Fpair key, but on the same key it's under @

At least on my keyboard

hyper-neutrino

for me 3# is directly below F2

StackMeter

what's an Fpair

Wheat Wizard

To break from the joke for a second, this is based on the fact that the ancient Greeks didn't consider 1 a prime number because they didn't consider 1 to be a number at all.

StackMeter

8:24 PM

we do F2 here

hyper-neutrino

what's dozen x dozen again, a gross?

Redwolf Programs

Yep

StackMeter

yes

144

hyper-neutrino

new challenge idea from this

Redwolf Programs

I have one too lol

caird coinheringaahing

8:25 PM

CMC: Given an integer input, return True/False if it's a number or not

hyper-neutrino

VTC as unclear, what is a number

user

? Isn't that just _ => true?

Wheat Wizard

haskell 5 bytes: (==3).

caird coinheringaahing

No, as 2 isn't a number

hyper-neutrino

wait

what's 4 then

@cairdcoinheringaahing is 12 a number, and is 144 a number?

Redwolf Programs

8:26 PM

An oumber

Wezl

@hyper-neutrino 3 is a triple, so it's not a number either

hyper-neutrino

and are there any other non-numbers

Redwolf Programs

5 is a pumber, 6 is a qumber

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Only if WW says they are :P

Redwolf Programs

7, 8, and 9 are rumber, sumber, and tumber

caird coinheringaahing

8:27 PM

@hyper-neutrino 4 is a pair of pairs, so that isn't a number

StackMeter

@cairdcoinheringaahing print(type(int(a)) = int)

hyper-neutrino

lambda x:stack_exchange.get_user("Wheat Wizard").ask(f"Is {x} a number?")=="yes"
import stack_exchange

Wezl

does this mean 4 is prime?

StackMeter

no

4 = 2 * 2

Redwolf Programs

2?

Wezl

8:28 PM

@StackMeter but 2 doesn't count

StackMeter

yes it does

Wezl

2 is a letter I guess

hyper-neutrino

hey, just because it's not a number doesn't mean it isn't a factor

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino ^

user

@hyper-neutrino You can golf the question to f"{x}isnum?" :P

hyper-neutrino

8:29 PM

@user I'm not familiar with the Wheat Wizard API

Redwolf Programs

The Redwolf API is just var RedwolfPrograms = (d)=>`${d} is bad, but at least it's better than SQL`

Golfable to RedwolfPrograms=d=>d+" is bad, but at least it's better than SQL"

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino The newest site in the network: WheatWizard.SE, where you can ask anything and get an answer from the one and only WW :P

Wezl

> SQL is bad, but at least it's better than SQL

caird coinheringaahing

And, proof-golf questions are on topic there as well

Wezl

which is true

Wheat Wizard

8:31 PM

I hope someone else asks a proof-golf question sometime.

Redwolf Programs

> Redwolf is bad, but at least it's better than SQL

Wheat Wizard

> SQL is bad, but at least it's better than SQL

Redwolf Programs

VTC as dupe :p

hyper-neutrino

No SQL is SQL, SQL isn't bad

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard It's something I've been looking at doing, but I'm not familiar with axiomatic proofs enough to make one that's actually challenging

StackMeter

8:32 PM

@WheatWizard logical contradiction, VTC, flagged

hyper-neutrino

bad is bad, better than SQL is better than SQL, get it right

caird coinheringaahing

Currently, that area of math/logic is just a general interest of mine, but I hope to expand it more at uni

hyper-neutrino

i'm not familiar with axiom based proofs really, all of the proofs i've done so far have had a lot more theorems involved in the proofs rather than just being based on a few fundamental axioms

Redwolf Programs

> Arbitrarily rating things in comparison to things that aren't at all similar is bad, but at least it's better than SQL

hyper-neutrino

CMQ: do you prefer SQL or PREQL

Wheat Wizard

8:34 PM

The trick is to find a fun little logic system.

hyper-neutrino

wait preql actually exists

not too surprising but bruh

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I prefer OTQL

Redwolf Programs

Disney ruined SQL IMO

caird coinheringaahing

The dialogue in PREQL is so clunky, and the writing in SQL is just awful :P

Redwolf Programs

Even the literal intepretation of that is true

caird coinheringaahing

8:35 PM

"Somehow, INNER JOIN returned" is just bad writing :P

hyper-neutrino

Hm, would a lambda calculus based proof be potentially interesting? like given the two (three?) of application and abstraction (and what else), prove that one expression is equivalent to another

sounds like it has potential but i suck at lambda calculus despite having to use it in a uni course

Wheat Wizard

I'm not sure.

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino What was that challenge idea you had? I got one too from that conversation and I don't want to post a dupe

hyper-neutrino

in any case, proof-golf looks cool, but i'd leave that to someone who actually knows what they're doing, lol

Wheat Wizard

The thing about LC is that there are only two rules so the best path is usually pretty straight forward.

hyper-neutrino

8:37 PM

@RedwolfPrograms given two symbols representing conventional "numbers" and an operator, write the expression out but fix any bad references to numbers

2 * 6 => a pair of 6s = a dozen

3 + 12 => 3 and a dozen = 15

Redwolf Programs

Okay good, mine's mostly unrelated

rak1507

prove the collatz conjecture (+100 rep for doing it)

Wheat Wizard

This one was SKI combinator calculus in disguise:

38

Q: (A → B) → (¬B → ¬A)

Well I think it is about time we have another proof-golf question. This time we are going to prove the well known logical truth \$(A \rightarrow B) \rightarrow (\neg B \rightarrow \neg A)\$ To do this we will use Łukasiewicz's third Axiom Schema, an incredibly elegant set of three axioms that ...

hyper-neutrino

oh I remember reading something about SKI being isomorphic to some logic system on the wiki page

when i was trying to learn how to use flurry so i could answer hello world since bubbler mentioned a lack of a flurry answer :P

Wheat Wizard

Yeah SKI can be thought of as an intuitionistic logic.

hyper-neutrino

8:40 PM

though i suppose (~a => ~b) => (b => a) isn't exactly I

is it?

Redwolf Programs

Part of my laptop charger looks like a crewmate and now I've caught amogus.

Wheat Wizard

No it's not representable as a normal combinator.

hyper-neutrino

i can see how S is definitely a=>(b=>c) => (a=>b)=>(a=>c) and K is definitely a=>(b=>a)

ah okay

Wheat Wizard

SK is intuitionistic meaning that it can't prove ~~b => b, which is what our third law allows.

hyper-neutrino

Ah. alright, I see (i'll probably need to go read some more about intuitionistic logic sometime)

StackMeter

8:43 PM

@rak1507 make it 10000

rak1507

nah

StackMeter

the person who does deserves it

caird coinheringaahing

They also deserve (and get) $1m :P

rak1507

100 rep > $1m

Wezl

@rak1507 wanna trade?

rak1507

8:50 PM

what, I give you 100 rep and you give me $1m? sure :P

Wezl

no I don't want to disadvantage you

hyper-neutrino

the problem with being faster than light is that you live in darkness; that is to say, with New Posts and being able to see and delete posts so fast, they don't get sent to the review queue so I don't get the task completion

StackMeter

I could bribe people to give me 1k rep with like, a tenth of the money

caird coinheringaahing

I think I know what answer you mean :P

StackMeter

just promise them it back in upvotes

caird coinheringaahing

8:52 PM

It means I got another helpful flag tho, so that's fun :D

hyper-neutrino

:D

StackMeter

@rak1507 I want 20k rep for £1M

hyper-neutrino

i still only have 46 helpful flags total even with my auto-validating flags, lol.

ngn

it's rumoured that SE rep is produced out of thin air, not backed by anything, and is controlled by a cabal of websites

rak1507

what if we used SE rep as a new cryptocurrency

hyper-neutrino

8:54 PM

SE rep is actually the newest cryptocurrency; asking and answering questions is just a form of mining crypto

._.

rak1507

hah

Redwolf Programs

Did...did I just...outgolf like 20 people in JS with recursion?

StackMeter

*i n J S *

Redwolf Programs

Can't even post it rn because school ends in 3 minutes :|

hyper-neutrino

wait why can't you post it then lol

Redwolf Programs

8:56 PM

Have to change the output format first but I need to go to the bus

hyper-neutrino

ah. F

in the meantime i will ninja you. even though i don't know what challenge you're referring to. also i don't know js.

Redwolf Programs

I'm winning by 7 bytes rn, but the new format will probably add 3 or 4

hyper-neutrino

F

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino why tho

caird coinheringaahing

Input and output formats ruin good answers so often :(

I had to add 4 bytes, and ruin a nice dyadic chaining answer here, because the programs had to handle both uppercase and lowercase :/

hyper-neutrino

9:01 PM

@StackMeter funny

user

@hyper-neutrino That'd actually be pretty nice

I could maybe buy myself some chocolate

New Meta Posts

1

Q: Tag Proposal: [asymmetric]

I've cooked up a few king-of-the-hill challenges, mostly in the sandbox, and a few of them are asymmetric in nature. They're not really cops-and-robbers because it's not really about cracking a code, nor is it a meta-challenge that you might expect from the more common idea of Cops and Robbers (n...

discussion tags cops-and-robbers king-of-the-hill

hyper-neutrino

if rep on SE became worth any material value i suspect voting irregularities would become a much larger problem and sites like SO would get like double the mod work

just got caird's 30m old answer in the new posts. lmao

it frequently does some interesting things. overall really nice tho so still +1

caird coinheringaahing

Which is why every question on MM saying "Can we allow people to buy reputation?" or "Can we spend reputation to buy things at the SE store?" are heavily downvoted

hyper-neutrino

wait there are actual questions for that? lol.

caird coinheringaahing

9:14 PM

-87

Q: Is there a way to buy SO reputation?

Is there a feature by which we can buy reputation on SO (e.g 100 rep for $1)?, or a bot by which we can hack and increase our reputation?

support stack-overflow reputation gaming-the-system

hyper-neutrino

buying rep is a totally nonsense idea. spending rep for IRL things would probably not totally break all of SE but if you could buy rep for money then uh

caird coinheringaahing

It's tagged with gaming-the-system lol :P

user

I believe there was one where someone suggested offering people money for answering questions

@cairdcoinheringaahing Why is that even a tag?

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, that happens from time to time

hyper-neutrino

imagine if bots could spend a small amount of money to buy, say, 14 reputation, to get to 15 reputation, which is the reputation requirement for flagging posts

you know how spammers can post spam and that's about all they do?

imagine spammers but with the ability to redflag posts

user

9:15 PM

Spammers with access to site analytics (with enough money)

caird coinheringaahing

Time to create a spambot which just flags its own posts :P

@user Or VTDs

hyper-neutrino

no but like buying 10k rep for VTDing would probably be quite expensive but just imagine

with 6 spam accounts and a bit of money to buy 84 reputation across them

user

@hyper-neutrino You just need to buy it once, then sell the information to other people

hyper-neutrino

you can now instantly nuke any post you want

@user ?

oh

caird coinheringaahing

If it was 1rep = $1, then you could spend $60k and run the site

hyper-neutrino

9:16 PM

you mean view deleted posts not voting

but the thing is now these 6 accounts can go around and instantly delete 10 posts per day

user

lol I spent an hour figuring out why my logs weren't showing up, then realized I never actually called the method to log them

caird coinheringaahing

3 20k+ users with aligned intensions are basically only stoppable by mods

hyper-neutrino

or if you buy enough rep to get assoc, 10 per site per day (i think that's how it works?)

sure, mods can undo all of this

caird coinheringaahing

Nah, make it so you can buy a mod diamond :P

hyper-neutrino

but it would be a massive hassle and a lot of users would lose reputation or get autoblocked which would be a total pain for mods

@cairdcoinheringaahing so if you have enough money you can just do whatever you want and abuse power? what is this, real-life politics?

caird coinheringaahing

9:19 PM

Or, have each mod election have a "raffle" diamond up for grabs. 1 ticket = $1 :P

user

Time to make a reality show about this /s

caird coinheringaahing

If sandbox.stackexchange.com was a site, I'd support this happening there :P

hyper-neutrino

i'm going to have nightmares about this tonight

user

~~Let's turn Codidact Meta into such a site!~~

I'm sure they'd be very pleased if we replaced rep with money there

caird coinheringaahing

Speaking of Codidact, new(ish) challenge of mine :P

rak1507

9:26 PM

is there a %2 builtin in jelly?

yes, there is Ḃ

user

So, suppose I have a friend with a hypothetical finger with which I could press a hypothetical mouse with which I could click a hypothetical upvote button and make a hypothetical person happy, would you be willing to utilize my friend's hypothetical finger in exchange for some hypothetical green sheets of cotton?

caird coinheringaahing

Personally, I prefer orange and purple sheets of plastic, but yes :P

user

(these hypothetical green sheets should have a hypothetical picture of a hypothetical person hypothetically named Ben Franklin)

Along with a number that is a power of 10

hyper-neutrino

hypothetically, I suppose?

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Great! If you hypothetically send me the money, I'll hypothetically tell my friend to do the thing

@hyper-neutrino Of course, of course (psst! You want in on this?)

hyper-neutrino

9:30 PM

now, hypothetically, for the sake of argument, if you hypothetically traded these hypothetical upvotes for hypothetical sheets of cotton, suppose I hypothetically had a button that hypothetically disables a hypothetical user account for a year, hypothetically (/s)

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing did I have the same sol as you?

user

@hyper-neutrino Ah, but this hypothetical stuff would hypothetically be on another site, hypothetically

@cairdcoinheringaahing Is this a reference I should get?

caird coinheringaahing

@user Maybe, if you've ever been to the UK :P

hyper-neutrino

plastic money is cool

rak1507

I have been to the UK and I don't get it

caird coinheringaahing

9:33 PM

Our money is plastic and green, orange and purple (depending on the denomination)

rak1507

oh

hyper-neutrino

thing that's annoying is when people fold it

because it's hard to fold but if someone really tries now you can't unfold it that well

also if you drop it it goes flying like 100 miles away magically

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh

caird coinheringaahing

But you can leave it in your pockets when you wash your trousers and then still have money afterwards :P

user

You can do that here too, as long as you insure your money :P

Wezl

9:36 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing wash your trousers with money -> problem solved

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Are You My Mother? (very WIP) king-of-the-hill (coincidentally, thought up around mother's day) Oh no! All the newly-hatched ducklings have been mixed together, and they all look the same! The ducklings want to reunite with their own mother. But the mothers are also selfish and want as many duck...

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing what was your jelly solution

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 For what?

rak1507

your codidact challenge

caird coinheringaahing

Exactly the same as your posted one

rak1507

9:46 PM

:D

I wish Ƭ was µƬ, it seems like that would be a much more common use

Redwolf Programs

Cotton money is water resistant too

I've washed dollar bills several times

Wheat Wizard

I just thought of a half decent idea for a code-trolling question.

rak1507

only several years too late

@user103648 do you not have a hobby or something?

user

lol

Don't respond to them, though, it'll probably just encourage them

Redwolf Programs

Act really grateful and appreciative :p

@user103648 Thanks, I'm testing the sockets and needed some help!

Well, I've tried all the options I have access to. Looks like my last resort is, checks menu, "add as room owner"

Wezl

9:53 PM

volunteers

user

@RedwolfPrograms And say what? "@user103648, love that profile picture! Rocking that haircut!"

@Wezl Get in line, buddy

Can you ROs make me a room owner if I get my account suspended?

Wezl

any reason you're asking that now?

"can you put this on my grave"

Redwolf Programs

10:06 PM

Just wrote two prime related answers, one of which is sexy

That is a sentence that you will only see on code golf

user

Not necessarily. You can write it on a poster and stand outside telling everyone about it :P

hyper-neutrino

@user I can, but I don't know about ROs.

just tested in the Sandbox

ngn

10:31 PM

is the field GF(p)[i] algebraically closed?

i.e. complex ints mod p (like gaussian integers but using modular arithmetic)

"algebraically closed" means every polynomial with coefficients from that field has roots in that field

Wheat Wizard

I'm going to have to doubt that one.

It's too late for me to think. I'll want to think about this in the morning though.

ngn

there's no rush

it's just a cunning idea for solving some PE problems more efficiently. who knows if it will work..

caird coinheringaahing

@user Hypothetically, if I clicked an upvote button on a hypothetical user's answer, what are the hypothetical odds that that user would hypothetically do the same on one of my answers? :P

Just hypothetical of course :P

rak1507

10:57 PM

@ngn a smart person says 'No. For example, you don't have n-th root of unity for big n.'

ngn

that's a pity

Delfad0r

@ngn Definitely not. The algebraic closure of GF(p) is infinite, for instance, while GF(p)[i] is finite. For some primes (p=5, for example), GF(p)[i]=GF(p), since there already is a square root of -1 mod p.

ngn

and here it says that the algebraic closure of GF(p) is the infinite union of all GF(p^n)

Wezl

SE is asking whether I'm a bot. Google has been too...

hyper-neutrino

maybe you've been infected by the hivemind

have you been pasting answers from TIO/your editor and submitting them too fast? or is this something else

Wezl

11:06 PM

um, I did reload and repaste into the editor because preview wasn't working

lyxal

hi

caird coinheringaahing

hello there

Wezl

@lyxal you took less than two seconds to type that message, you must be a bot

rak1507

general kenobi

lyxal

ninjad

caird coinheringaahing

11:12 PM

According to my reputation page, I have "earned at least 200 reputation on 39 days". However, my progress tracker for Epic (earn 200 reputation on 50 days) is at 48/50 :P

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Reveal by Quarters (in need of a better name) array-manipulation code-golf Inspired by this: http://nolandc.com/smalljs/mouse_reveal/ (source). A valid answer: Takes a number \$w\$ and a coordinate pair \$(x, y)\$. Outputs a two-dimensional integer array with a width and height of \$2^w\$. This ...

user

11:52 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hypothetically, that hypothetical user would hypothetically go and upvote all of your posts

This is a limited time offer, hypothetically

:P

lyxal

okay ben shapiro

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