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12:04 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah, so there is a way of tracking my progress for the badge after Epic without using the badge tracker
I never realised I repcapped on the 24th though
@Neil Kind of
and on the 22nd I guess
I'm not quite sure what metric they use to measure Epic/Legendary, because it definitely isn't the same metric as what's recorded there
(previous to that I last repcapped in October)
I remember that it counted a day when I repcapped, but had set a +500 bounty so had a net -300
@user That hypothetical user might, hypothetically, run out of votes pretty quickly :P
12:11 AM
I've earned 200 rep on 10 days since I earned Epic but it says I only earned 200 rep on 55 different days (52 from upvotes only)
apparently I went over 2 years without earning 200 rep from upvotes between feb 2018 and jan 2020
I did lose rep due to rep cap on 5 separate days since I earned Epic though
maybe I should start tracking another badge
How are you still tracking Epic?
12:31 AM
wait what o.O
12:59 AM
Just found this in SO, the accepted answer is -40 lmao
1:38 AM
Also can someone please continue the rickroll (I can't)
@Ausername unrelated, but has language Splinter any docs for it?
There's a link to the spec in the esolangs page.
@Wasif It's very simple.
And no I have not made a metagolfer - I've handwritten everything so far.
Aha then i will learn it
Here is my prepared answer for today, but I can't post it, so feel free.
@hyper-neutrino In Javascript, NaN is not equal to NaN, and 2 is not equal to NaN, so 2 must equal NaN!
2:21 AM
@Wezl Wasif has asked whether I'm a bot (Apparently my username is a bit sus)
@Ausername NaN != NaN in a lot of languages or maybe even most, IIRC
but yes since NaN is not NaN and 2 is not NaN then 2 must be NaN which also implies 2 is not NaN but if 2 is NaN and NaN is 2 then NaN is NaN which means NaN isn't NaN and-
@hyper-neutrino Exactly.
in other news, 1 != 2 and 2 != 3 so 1 == 3
And 0 == any number
So all codegolf submissions are 0 bytes
Wait no -∞ bytes
I just realized I gave Lyxal a silver badge.
and we have here a proof by contradiction
2:30 AM
New challenge posted go on solve it
Q: Least notes money exchange

WasifSuppose A and B are two good friends. A has borrowed \$n\$ dollar from B. Now B wants the money back from A and A is also ready to give it. But the problem is A has only \$x\$ dollar notes and B has \$y\$ dollar notes. They both want to keep the number of notes in exchange as low as possible. As ...

@Wasif A - was this sandboxed - B - Can we assume it's always solvable (E.G. 1 4 6 will never be inputted)?
@Ausername obviously this was sandboxed for nearly a month
Yes input will be always solvable
2:57 AM
> Javascript beats Python!
@Ausername fixed
I'm golfing some more, be ready...
@hyper-neutrino Fixed, forgot function didn't need to be named.
:c right you don't need to recurse
@hyper-neutrino you can inline the while right
@Razetime what do you mean
something like print(c-n)/y,c/x while(c<n)+(n-c)%y:c+=x
3:01 AM
uh no that isn't a thing in python
lol using a full program is actually shorter
@hyper-neutrino 55 with recursion
Dang, I can actually golf today
Golfed it to 49 using my own approach
i have been ninja'd
@Wasif in the future please ask here for some final feedback before posting. Some/most of us might've missed the Sandbox post because of how many there are (and not actively going through them in our free time) and there have been at least three clarifications required and you have a 66% invalid answer ratio right now.
3:08 AM
That actually saves a byte lmao
@RedwolfPrograms you program needs to be fixed to output 110, 1 for 10, 1, 100 rather than 10, 0 (which is what I was doing before clarification as well).
Oh, that should be simple I think
also btw you can't ping more than one person per comment :p
only the first valid ping will take effect
I think
at least, I didn't get an inbox notif for your comment
I know, I just wanted to attribute it to you too :p
ah :p
3:10 AM
That was the easiest fix ever, just changed 0 to 1 :p
i had to spend a whole extra byte
Edited the TIO link to include that test case
unfortunately starting at an appropriate value like yours does takes me +2 bytes
I larned the nested lambda trick a while back, one of the really good JS golfers showed it to me
I suddenly got a much thicker Texas accent
it is unfortunately almost always worse for python because of how stupid the lambda syntax is ಠ_ಠ
3:12 AM
Not even TX actually
@RedwolfPrograms impossible
moving g= into a default argument of the function does not save bytes :c
My accent isn't actually super Texas though, since I'm near a city. More generic American :p
I just saw what I think was a bottle of pee on the road
There are worse places it could be
3:13 AM
Dw I'm back seating
Not driving
My hobby: ducking under the invisible laser at doorways to stores to avoid the sensor making a noise to say I entered
I do it to prevent the alarm going off so I have a head start on security
read: looking sus so they think you're stealing things (yes ik you said entering but still)
Hard to steal stuff from subway
Tell that to my personal train car
Stoopid idiot
I mean the bread subway where they give you subs
3:20 AM
Oh :|
Tell that to my personal...sandwich?
As opposed to the community sandwich
I would appreciate it if you stopped sending messages that make it extremely hard not to laugh in public places
Frick off
I said stop making me laugh and what do you do? The exact opposite
In class is the worst place for it to happen
oh it's friday and i don't have to get up early tomorrow. will i go to sleep at 2 or stay up til 6? who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3:24 AM
There are now 20-30 people who think I find logarithmic functions deeply entertaining
Imagine actually learning
Made by wiki racing with a friend gang
I'm not in class right now obviously (made by CST gang) :p
i learned a lot in my classes
not about the class content itself, but still
Same :p
@RedwolfPrograms for a moment I thought that S was a B
3:29 AM
Central...brain time? bot time? butt time?
closed beta testing
dont look it up
so you were thinking of that one
that's sus
no u
Looks like we've mostly agreed on Monthly Mini Golf, +11/-1 with second place being +7/-1
3:33 AM
how do we work around timezones; 8 hour rotation?
That sounds like the best option
00:00, 08:00, and 16:00 UTC, I guess?
When start?
Is this jeopardy?
cool. do we plan to have a specific challenge (like a CMC but much more structured) created for each one or to dig up an old / unanswered challenge?
@RedwolfPrograms no, this is patrick
I was thinking lots of CMCs
We could do 9 or maybe 18, depending on time
3:35 AM
@RedwolfPrograms What is Jeff?
ah. how long do we plan for the event to be; an hour?
@lyxal JEFF MOMMA!
Err wrong joke
> 9 or maybe 18
interesting range
@hyper-neutrino That's half the number or the typical number of holes, right?
3:37 AM
i'm stupid, i didn't get the reference
An hour to two hours seems good
9 is probably better
9 CMCs, not 9 hours
6m40 for each? hm. that's probably fine; CMCs don't take long to solve usually
i mean we don't need to restrict ourselves to an extremely strict time schedule either
Maybe for a few hours before the event, we could have an unofficial CMC drafting workshop
when do we want to run it then? first of every month is a bit far off from now if ppl are too impatient :p
Seems like people would be more active on weekdays anyway, and the first doesn't guarantee the day of the week, so sticking to a strict schedule isn't really that important imo
Maybe Tuesday of next week?
3:41 AM
oh, maybe we could cycle between weekdays too?
I'd say Tuesdays and Thursdays are best
Mondays and Fridays seem like bad ideas because timezones could result in some people still being during the weekends, and Wednesdays are already going to have blog stuff going on
okay. maybe we could rotate between 0 UTC tues, 8 UTC thurs, 16 UTC tues, 0 UTC thurs, 8 UTC tues, 16 UTC thurs
Sounds good. Should I schedule the event and make a meta post?
That'll be the...11th? Or 12th?
if you would like to, then sure :P i was going to make one finalizing the proposal, but then again, no time will work perfectly for everyone, and i think this will reasonably give everyone a chance to participate in at least a few
tuesday is the 11th, so 00:00 Tuesday May 11 UTC, which is Monday May 10 for you
Should I call this one (First) Monthly Mini Golf?
Sounds good, adding
3:47 AM
Redwolf Programs has added an event to this room's schedule.
Oh, that's not going to be at a convenient time for me lol
Hello again
Maybe I can convince my sister to go to soccer practice so they won't be home until 9 PM
0 and 16 UTC are fine for me
3:48 AM
What is monthly mini golf
wait 8 UTC works for me too
it's 4 AM so I will probably be up
actually on weekdays maybe not
8 UTC won't work for me either, but we should have at least some ROs and other people awake
Actually I can probably afford to wake up at 3 AM every three months :p
I'll start drafting the meta post
caird and adam (i think they live in ~ the same tz??) will likely be up by then (though they might be busy in the mornings); i think bubbler is awake at that time
i can sleep early and wake up at 4
you're a genius
i was thinking i couldn't do it cuz of work cuz i'd have to stay up til 5:30/6 which is probably not too healthy if i'm getting up at 8:30
> Because you are a moderator there, an event that you schedule in this room may be advertised on codegolf.stackexchange.com.
do chat events advertise across the chat network? idk how chat works (assuming it does) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
oh yeah looks like they do. nice
Are there any prizes for winning?
@hyper-neutrino you're not stupid, you're hypernuetrino
@lyxal if you win i won't ban you for unfunny jokes /s
3:58 AM
I'm thinking we could pitch in some bounties as a community, maybe
Not being banned seems a good enough prize
I set this event to 90m, so we can make it shorter or longer if needed
Looks like it's being advertised
How do we determine winner?
It'll probably be kind of unofficial
4:03 AM
Suggestion: 2 categories: practical languages and ffa
i take it while the event is ongoing other conversation is off-topic but things like new users asking what cgcc's about / asking for help is fine?
basically, we don't need a second room, but normal chatter that happens here should stop for the event
A bit of discussion is fine, the whole point is to introduce people to CGCC and TNB after all
alright (also yes +1)
Have a breakout room during the event
i think that would potentially create unnecessary confusion and at best not really be necessary IMO
or do you mean for if people want to continue chatter, they can move it there for the meantime
4:07 AM
@hyper-neutrino yeah that
i mean, if people are having a conversation and want to continue it when the event starts, i guess they can make a room to branch off. as long as they have 100 rep, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
New life goal: win ffa category of mmg
apl will probably ezclap the practical category :P
Prolly will but at least there's a channel not competing with golfing languages
4:14 AM
Q: Introducing Monthly Mini Golf!

Redwolf ProgramsIn order to grow our community and its chat room, The Nineteenth Byte, we decided here to start a new monthly chat event: Monthly Mini Golf! During this event, a number of previously drafted "CMCs" (short for Chat Mini Challenge) will be posted, and anyone can reply with their solutions. It will ...

Feel free to suggest any changes
Or just make them
hm 5:30AM or PM idk
@RedwolfPrograms just make sure there's an option to compete just among practical languages
That's my only feedback
@RedwolfPrograms EST is UTC-4
@hyper-neutrino Stupid google >:|
4:19 AM
@lyxal The bounties will all be mostly unofficial, so people will be free to restrict the criteria however they wish :p
Wait so there'll be no official winner?
should we have people add / offer bounties with criteria in an answer below? I can create a CW and allow people to add a condition for a bounty for the next / any MMG
@hyper-neutrino I am extra ready to fastestgun this :P
@hyper-neutrino It might vary with each event, though.
I think having people post them in chat beforehand should be fine
:o we could have MMG teams
4:21 AM
Plus that encourages bandwagon bounty offering :p
true :p
The "how should we do chat events" post should probably be unfeatured now
Q: Introducing Monthly Mini Golf!

Redwolf ProgramsIn order to grow our community and its chat room, The Nineteenth Byte, we decided here to start a new monthly chat event: Monthly Mini Golf! During this event, a number of previously drafted "CMCs" (short for Chat Mini Challenge) will be posted, and anyone can reply with their solutions. It will ...

@lyxal MMG?
4:23 AM
Monthly mini golf
wow teammss
Might be a bit discouraging for new users though
i might add a bounty offer or two for new users, we'll see
I was thinking of something similar
4:28 AM
nice, i am registering for the MMGs
but what time will be 0:00 UTC in GMT +6
06:00 if I'm not mistaken
00:00 UTC in GMT +X will be X o'clock by definition :P
ah just 30 minutes
I will wake up 30 minutes after the contest starts :-(
@lyxal 0/10 cursed. except the JOJO reference
you know when you have a dream and when you wake up you can't clearly recall it and soon forget the details but it made no sense and was totally messed up and weird?
ok this was the most cursed thing i have watched and i am charging you $3 for the 3 years it has taken off of my lifespan
@cairdcoinheringaahing out of curiosity did you by any chance accept this answer to make your reputation a multiple of 10? :P
(just wondering - i've done that too lol)
5:06 AM
> I've edited in your official score and accepted your answer as it appears to be optimal – caird coinheringaahing 5 hours ago
so there's your answer
well i saw that but accepting isn't that common and caird doesn't usually accept either :p though granted, this answer does seem to be optimal in which case there isn't really further participation to be had
i've accepted 4 times, all in 2017, lol
oh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nvm then
I'd have linked more but the message got too long
5:15 AM
oh my goodness finally. y'all remember how I was telling y'all about not being able to use arrays/lists for a pet vet program?
They now will let us
It's a new assignment and everything, it's just modifying the first painful one
imo it makes far more sense to give an assignment that makes sense to do with only what's been learnt and then new topics => new assignments that incorporate those
instead of teaching shitty / inefficient practices first and then saying "sike actually this exists, use it instead"
they also decided to throw file IO into the mix
because why not
are you using try (Reader a = b) {} catch () {}
we totally haven't covered files yet
time to see what I used when I made an app for Android that one time
man frick context. all my homies hate context. Stupid thing needing to be passed around everywhere. smh. \s
        File file = new File(context.getFilesDir(), filename);
        FileReader fileReader = new FileReader(file);
        BufferedReader bufferedReader = new BufferedReader(fileReader);
that's apparently how I did file IO (minus the context.getFilesDir() obv)
5:34 AM
that is much better practice than the BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new FileReader("file.txt")); that i usually do. lol.
oh man there is some questionable stuff in my old stuff
I didn't want to use csv files (prolly because there's no built-in csv lib iirc), so I made my own version
exhibit a:
            ArrayList<String> parts = new ArrayList<>(Arrays
ITEM_SEPARATOR in this context is
oh my goodness
             IS GONE
That was a comment I left in my submission
the teacher saw it
R.I.P. lyxal 2021
this was last year
5:38 AM
oh lol
back in HS, I made an app for my major work for SW
took me 254 commits but I got it working
@lyxal so did you just decide to not handle strings (like quoted sections) lol
or is that why you picked a weird separator
@hyper-neutrino weird separator ftw
.-. lol
usually it'd be a comma, but frick commas amiright?
5:40 AM
it was a kind of goal management thing
unrelated but youtube seems to really like autoplaying bad apple from like half the songs i look up
@lyxal o that looks quite nice
imagine being good at ui design
the pain of constraints are coming back to me now
what are those again
is that the gridbaglayout thingy
they make the things on the screen do the layout correctly regardless of phone size
5:43 AM
html is pog because i can just import materialize.css. ez
btw the screenshots were taken on my old phone
you took this ss one minute too early
this was before all the funny number jokes
the concept of lyxal was only new back then
wait, there was a time before lyxal's funny numbers? :o
A long time ago
We don't talk about that though
6:05 AM
I'm half way to Fanatic!
6:19 AM
@pxeger great, i hope you would be able to visit 50 days continuously
Well, is making stack based the best choice for an esolang
@Wasif there isn't one choice that will be the absolute "best" per se. Jelly seems to be able to beat all stack-based languages (assuming no exact built-ins) in a good amount of medium-length problems due to not having to repeat arguments by tacitly referring to them, but it often struggles at short problems due to requiring extra bytes to manipulate its chaining rules when stack-based languages can just move their items on the stack perfectly fine
as well as longer challenges where you need to work with more than just two values at a time, which Jelly suffers with sometimes
stack-based is both easier to code and easier to understand/learn
it also doesn't really even lose to jelly much
vyxal is pretty competitive against jelly consistently (even when flag abuse isn't involved) even in math challenges (since jelly is usually bad for string challenges)
is there any esolang with both stack and variable concepts?
6:35 AM
Some stack-based golflangs support one or a couple of registers
Factor (stack-based practical language, not an esolang) supports local variables
I see
If you can define an (almost) arbitrary-named variable, it's 99% no longer an esolang
just found that vyxal allows variables
so it is no longer an esolang
Nah, Vyxal belongs to the 1% :P
@Wasif Also note that Pyth (prefix notation) was pretty strong through the middle age of PPCG. IMO it faded away only because it was ascii only
@Bubbler was pyth variable based?
6:44 AM
weren't most of the early golf langs ascii-only?
if then I want to fork it
actually i guess cjam and gs can't be considered strong during the middle age of PPCG
pyth was definitely up there but its small codepage definitely worked against it when languages like 05ab1e and jelly started appearing
@Wasif Idk exactly, but I don't think it had variables
looks like mathematica doesnt work on tio anymore
"Wolfram Language 12.0.1 Engine license you are using has expired. Please contact Wolfram Research or an authorized Wolfram product distributor to extend your license and obtain a new password."
@ManishKundu bruh momento
@Bubbler packed pyth exists but people aren't fans of packing so it kinda fell off
@Wasif golfscript
golfscript allows you to make anything a variable
numeric literals can be variables
7:07 AM
Ah, that's unfortunate. Seems someone's noted it in the TIO room already. I've pinged caird to add it to the update list.
I don't think my server could handle the load + I can't guarantee the lifespan of my domain (also it has my name in it) but I've been considering taking over TIO and bringing up a completely new instance of it. I'd need to guarantee I can keep it running and keep the domain for more or less the rest of eternity, but if I do get the capability to in the future, I want to take the burden entirely off of Dennis for his sake and so TIO can return to being up-to-date like it was before.
Maybe just a pipe dream; I hardly understand how it even works and I've never run anything at a non-negligible scale but I don't think the constantly growing backlog of new language and update requests among other issues is helping, and even if I can so much as clear that so it'll be easier for Dennis to pull it onto the main branch that might work. idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think the current TIO runs on AWS? Putting an updated fork on AWS should work in theory, if someone can afford the costs (and also somehow get the Wolfram license)
Ah. Maybe I'll dig around to see if I can find some specs; idk how much the server would have to cost to be able to handle TIO since I don't know how large the server for it actually is
according to the front page TIO is powered by DigitalOcean; they offer VPSs so maybe it's hosted on that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
7:22 AM
TIO and its arenas are run on three separate servers
though it's probably gotten less traffic with CGCC's reduced activity (at least I think? can't verify empirically) and with more languages resulting in more separate interpreters
7:42 AM
how to express infix (G*H)<1 in Pyth prefix? *GH<1 dosen't work, full code: M*GH<1
try <*GH1
oh thx you both
@lyxal get it right, "ninjad" should be "got ninjad"
@pxeger laughs in 631% of the way to fanatic
8:44 AM
@hyper-neutrino If you can do all the heavy lifting on the client side (Javascript, or Python interpreter), you can just use any static site thing, like surge
9:12 AM
Could someone PLEASE continue the rickroll?
9:42 AM
@hyper-neutrino my clone of TIO, Attempt This Online, is mostly feature-complete
It's only lacking the ability to create saved links, and only has 1 language at the moment
@pxeger You can copy what I did for my deadfish~ interpreter - compress everything into one object, turn to JSON, use js-string-compression's hauffman encoding, base64 the lot and append it too your url.
I know how to do it, I just have to implement it
9:59 AM
I figured out a compiler bomb in Functional Deadfish~: Don't Try it online!
10:37 AM
I'd love to talk to some jellyfish programmers if they exist in this chatroom
I feel like my answers are way too long from my trial and error approach to jellyfish
109 bytes
I am terrible at this
wow nice
you used the most standard programming features of vyxal
not very golfy, but in the spirit of what vyxal was made for
@Razetime Thanks!
ona side note, you can probably do a direct port of ovs's 05AB1e answer
Honestly no idea how to do that.
11:12 AM
yeah the explanation isn't too easy to understand
they're taking 10
which 05ab1e also treats as a string, taking cartesian power n of that
and then they split in half and check for validity
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