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11:01 AM
@Wasif is it really true that all 3 character Jelly scripts are legal?
@pxeger IMO, downvoting is okay, but do consider leaving a reason for the vote if the reason for doing so isn't obvious
@Anush I don't know much on Jelly, though i think it is not so
me too
on both counts
@Adám cool. How about for APL? How many legal programs of length 1,2,3?
11:05 AM
@Anush I'm late to the party, but no
@Anush We need to be huge mathematicians to calculate the number of legal programs
@Lyxal How about length 1 or 2?
Uh, loads. There are over 50 functions and any sequence of those is a legal program. Then there are a dozen or so operators which must have either a function on their left or on both sides (depending on the specific operator)…
it can't be that many can it?
I can confirm that there no legal working (so no 1) 3 bytes program in python
11:06 AM
@Anush length 1 is easy, we need to just get the number of legal characters which can appear in APL program
@okie 2+2?
@Wasif yes.
useful program
@okie 9*7 :)
11:06 AM
I mean 2+2 is useful
and 9*7 to
but a bit more useful
i am defeated
I think the question is interesting for golfing languages
@okie There are lot of functions like chr, map in python
but to get function work () is needed
@Adám so how many of length 1?
@okie Or [1], (1) are valid lists, tuples
And {1} is a valid set
11:10 AM
ya but it's not useful?
@okie You asked for "legal"
Not "useful"
@okie I think useful is an odd criterion here :) But we could talk about programs that give different outputs
@Anush 64.
@Anush no and no
11:11 AM
so 1/1 and 1*1 are the same. But that becomes very hard to count
@Lyxal cool!
@Adám and of length 2?
@Anush 4149
I really want to ask a challenge about this but I am not sure how to write it
anyone able to help?
@Adám that is very interesting! How did you work that out?
@Anush We can use the fact there are 1114112 possible Unicode characters
@Anush I simply tried to define them all, catching those that errored upon definition.
@Adám very nice!
11:13 AM
And write a brute-force program using that, checks each combination of n length, however our task will be easier for 1-byte programs, from 2-byte, we have to calculate all of the 1114112 because each of the character can be prepended with a comment, resulting in legal program
@Adám can you do 3 too?
@Anush well the thing is that it's either a) only available for languages with exec and try/catch or b) for a specific language defined by the question
@Anush Well, I have 551368 candidates, so this may take a while…
@Lyxal right. So it would have to be "count the number of legal programs in your favorite language" or something like that
@Adám but so worthwhile :)
@Adám 82 cubed?
@Anush You always seem to ask challenges, sometimes you can try to answer a few questions too ;-)
11:15 AM
@Wasif everyone has their strengths :)
@Anush are we considering input? And if it isn't a brute force approach, how is one to prove that it actually does calculate the total non-erroring programs?
@Wasif If I were the only one on the site it would be a big problem :)
@Lyxal no input
@Lyxal I guess if there is a formal syntax for a language it might be possible that way?
is it easy for whitespace?
@Anush Yeah. But I now realise that I omitted literals. So there are 1114112 valid APL programs of the form 'A'
@Adám that sounds bad :)
@Adám do they all return or output something?
Yeah, HW in APL is just 'Hello World'
11:18 AM
is Jelly the same?
@Anush no
Which means that for 2-char programs, we have 1. and 11 and .1 etc. too.
@Anush But it uses different quotes
11:20 AM
CMC: How many numbers can be written with exactly two characters in APL?
maybe the game should be to count the number of programs that are legal (no errors) and return/output something longer than their source
@Anush Wait, they have to be able to run too?
@Adám yes!
in python a literal is a valid program that runs
@Anush I interpreted "valid" as "syntactically valid" even if there are no arguments they could successfully run with.
@Adám 99?
11:21 AM
@Adám ah ok. The question is evolving :)
Non-erroring is a better term
@Adám integers or real?
No no 100 including 0-99, 0-9 is like 00,01...
I wonder what the shortest python program is that outputs something longer than the source
@Lyxal reams?
11:22 AM
@Adám I am having a really bad time with autocorrect right now
9**8 clearly does it
but is there something of length 3?
@Adám reals
There's no distinction in APL.
A number is a number.
But is the question asking for 1,2,3.. Or are you considering 0.5 and all fractions between?
Oh, any number.
11:24 AM
Then it's a bit more than 99
Because there's 9 reciprocals added to the list
Probably the circle command can give a few more numbers
Then from .1 to .9 adds 9 more, so we get 109
And there's probably some extra numbers obtainable from monadic calls of functions
Oh, I didn't think of those at all :-)
Monadic * and and all do a lot.
- gives you another 9.
! gives you 5.
But the real deal breaker is ?0 which can (and will eventually) give you all possible floats between 0 and 1
So [0,1] is added to the list, now the possible numbers rise to infinity :-)
So the real answer is ∞. Good to know
@pxeger when you say "any email address followed by pxeger.com", do you really mean any sequence of alphanumeric characters will send an email to you?
11:31 AM
Well, but we could restrict it so the expressions must be deterministic.
I suggest to make a kolmogorov-complexity challenge using this
11:50 AM
@Lyxal I do (as long you include the @ of course). Although if you use some special characters it might be rejected by some server in the chain
12:18 PM
weird fact: consider that there are an infinite number of prime pairs. but, they get less dense as you go up the list of primes. in fact, prime gaps of 6 overtake them. if you go up high enough (10^34) then prime gaps of 30 overtake gaps of 6. then 210, then 2310... yes it's the primorials that set the records for most frequent prime gaps.
12:38 PM
CMC: (inspired by above conversation) Produce output longer than your code
Snippets are fine
@RedwolfPrograms Vyxal,
Also, good morning
@cairdcoinheringaahing Do you mean an additional thing on the same page, or an identical page for codegolf.meta?
@Lyxal Good morning!
@RedwolfPrograms Shell, 3 bytes, yes
@RedwolfPrograms or, shell, 2 bytes, id
@RedwolfPrograms shouldn't you be getting ready for school?
Because it's night for me (10pm), so it's morning for you
@RedwolfPrograms Haskell, ['a'..]
12:41 PM
@Lyxal Yeah, I leave in ten minutes
@RedwolfPrograms what's being learned today?
Well I've got computer science, english, history, and math. In three out of four of those I just work on Ash/userscripts and don't pay attention :p
Towards the end of school, me and a friend ended up wiki racing during English pretty much every session
Mind you this was time in which we could have been preparing for the big exams we all had to do
wiki race is a quality game
And if you dug into my socials, you'd know I'm a Wikipedia speedrunner
Ask razetime for more info
12:46 PM
My cat just left me on read
He walked in, I greeted him, and he walked away
That's harsh.
@RedwolfPrograms I just remembered I also spent study time speedrunning Wikipedia too
I've already seen it :p
Complete with trance music for racing game and live split timer
@RedwolfPrograms some people may not havs
I know, I was just saying I have
Speaking of stupid things I did at school, I found amusement in drawing stick figures dabbing on whiteboards around the campus
Also, in our classroom there was an adjustable desk (like the type you can push a button and it moves up and down). I found it funny to make it go as high as it could before the teacher came in. Eventually, she saw it and said "well I know Lyxal is here today"
12:51 PM
Why did I use typescript for my TIO clone?! It's not helped me whatsoever yet and has only made me spend an hour a day adding : any after every few commits
Really? I found TS helps me avoid issues.
Are you using APIs without declaration files for TS?
I'm so used to JS's janky type system I would never be able to use TS
I'm off to go sleep now.
Well I'm a good enough programmer that static type checking never catches bugs because I've already caught them/s
@RedwolfPrograms I mean, TS is just JS with checks
12:53 PM
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI no, but I can never find the right actual type for a variable so I just put it as any
I mean, what type is X in window.matchMedia(...).addListener(e: X => ...)? How am I supposed to find that out?
Idk, print the object and make an interface for it, maybe
But that takes 10 minutes, and I don't think I will ever have a bug due to e being the wrong type
I wonder what would happen if you made all your expressions never
1:00 PM
And why can't typescript guess that text is supposed to be a string. Like what else is it gonna be dumbass??
Hey, please mind what you say here
It's "TypeScript" and you're supposed to use only one "?"
1:23 PM
I've already got +150 today, looks like I'll be repcapping again :/
sed is fun
until you forget the -E flag, use capturing groups, and squint at your code for an hour
then your program doesn't halt and you lose your progress
and then you choose the wrong cursor character like $ so it works except for not sometimes
but the satisfaction is almost worth it
@Wezl I wish we had more/some command line golf questions. sed and bash rock
1:40 PM
For vectorization, is normal or deep vectorization preferred?
btw I'm bountying sed first answers too non-horrible questions
For example, _ on an array negates every item. Should [2,[1,4]] be [-2,[-1,-4]], or [-2,-5] (5 is the result of to_number([1,4]))
@RedwolfPrograms first one any day
@RedwolfPrograms Husk: N
Deep vectorization is good
is this for simd?
1:55 PM
@RedwolfPrograms surprisingly hard in sed >:|
Ash is going to be a bit of a weird mix of overloading and vectorization. The first argument is almost always used for overloading, but the rest of them typically just vectorize.
2:34 PM
sed explanations also take so long
how does one visit a meta site from the mobile app
i can't find a way to navigate to it other than to find a notification that brings me there
would you like me to paste a link :P
2:49 PM
It's right next to the link for chat when you click in the top left corner (on iOS, at least)
i don't think i have a link to get to chat either xD unless i'm missing something
What happens when you click the top left corner?
There's a burger menu that may be hidden a bit.
it just opens my inbox
wait i can't read
i read you as saying top right
yeah there's a hamburger menu in the top left but it just gives me my profile, my feed, my main sites, About, and Settings
2:54 PM
There isn't a second line saying "Code Golf" on the left and "meta", "chat," and "log out" on the right?
nope, I don't see anything like that
also did they discontinue the app or something? i tried to find it on the play store to update it in case mine was out of date and i can't find it anymore
Welp you can always request Desktop website
wait are you talking about the mobile site
oh. i was talking about the application xD which may or may not exist anymore, apparently
2:56 PM
Oh lol
Apr 2 at 0:34, by Lyxal
Because I downloaded the app while it was still publicly available and transferred the app between phones if I needed to
Ask Lyxal if you need the app ^
@Lyxal do you know of a way to get to meta on your SE app, and if so, can i have a copy of your app :P I have one downloaded but it could be an older version than the last publically available one
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, a separate page for meta
@hyper-neutrino iOS or Android?
@cairdcoinheringaahing android
I'll just make it work with any SE site I guess, including the per-site metas
Yeah, they've fully stopped dev on the apps. Not too familiar with the android app, but on iOS, click the meatball menu "More" at the bottom of the screen when you're on Code Golf's question page, then "Switch to meta site". Hopefully it's similar on Android?
3:10 PM
there doesn't seem to be anything at the bottom of the page for me :c
Is there a list of your sites to the left?
Cause I think you can click "All Sites" if so, and search for Code Golf Meta
oh yeah when i go to all sites i can select between looking through main sites and meta sites, lol
Q: Where are all the meta sites?

CodingIntrigueHow do I get to the meta sites on the Android app? There only appears to be the main Stack Exchange meta in the list of sites...

Just found that :P
oh, lol :P
Which SE sites have their own websites?
I know SO does
3:18 PM
There's also this which makes no sense
@RedwolfPrograms SO, SF, SA, AU, MO IIRC
@cairdcoinheringaahing What are those? The only ones I recognize are SO and SF
Sys Admin, Ask Ubuntu, Math Overflow
Not sure what System Admin is, there's Super User
3:21 PM
Sorry, that's what I meant
There's also stackapps and Seasoned Advice (that's what SA was, my bad)
Also looks like Stack Apps and Seasoned Advice have their own too, so plenty of SA ones
Apparently Seasoned Advice doesn't, it's just cooking.stackexchange
No, there's two different ones I think
Cooking and seasoned advice
Not according to this
Oh, huh
3:24 PM
seasonedadvice.com and arqade.com redirect to Cooking.SE and Arqade/Gaming.SE
NMP is going to post that off topic, almost closed Haskell question, just before it gets closed, I know it :/
It's closed now
@cairdcoinheringaahing Ha, I cast the final close vote on that question just to spite you. Pay up now!
(Just kidding, of course, it was a close-worthy question)
Good, it's also been deleted.
ah, I wasn't paying attention for a couple minutes :/
You should have made it about butter :(
3:30 PM
Kinda annoyed that I'm on mobile, without my quick comments script, and links in comments on mobile is just bleh
Why is Jeff Atwood described as the "former co-founder" of SE?
Because he no longer works at SE
But it's weird wording
But it's still true that he co-founded it
Not in this timeline :P
Why on earth are regex groups capturing by default...
3:32 PM
Because Perl, probably
I've just received my VtC privilege today and I already cast 2 votes, I feel kinda bad right now :/
Embrace it, revel in your power
It's just a taste of what is to come
Hmm, found a problem. I don't know the site IDs for per-site metas.
And they aren't listed anywhere.
@Delfad0r Well, both those questions were off-topic, those are the easy VTCs :)
3:49 PM
Actually I'll just hard code CGCC and its meta, I'm not bothering with making it work with all of them
@pxeger You mean like this one? :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing that was my subtle hint to Wasif lol
Theoretically my copy should work on CGCC meta now
Now I'll need to wait for something to get answered on meta, though
someone could always nominate for TNB RO :P (though probably most/all people who want to already have)
can you nominate someone who's already nominated?
4:00 PM
I'll just sandbox an idea I had
That was immediate
This userscript is insane
@Anush I've gone with "syntaxically valid" meaning "this only breaks on some/empty input", rather than "it errors". Jelly has 156 1 byte atoms. The only way a 1 byte program can contain a quick is if the quick is an "actor", of which there are 9 (these technically recurse forever, but there are syntaxically valid). There's then the various syntax characters, adding 23 more programs. Finally, any unimplemented symbol is a valid 1 byte program (due to parsing weirdness), so that's 23.
That produces a total of 211 out of a possible 256 1 byte programs
Wait, no, sorry, there are only 6 actors that are syntaxically valid 1 byte programs, so 208 / 256
Hang on again, Jelly's quicks can exist in 1 byte programs, but only a few of them. I'll get back to you with a correct answer in a second :/
Hi all, still discussion on the possible valid programs going on :P
4:16 PM
So: 156 1 byte atoms, all syntaxically valid. 14 quicks; 6 are "syntaxically valid", 8 just don't throw an error in a 1 byte program but don't really match up with their proper syntax. 26 syntax characters. 23 unimplemented characters. Total: 219 / 256
Im going to go work on the answer for \$n = 2\$ :P
4:28 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Redwolf ProgramsKotH: Assembly Anarchy Draft. Just posting this so I don't forget I had this idea. Feel free to suggest improvements to the general idea here. Basically, there would be a computer with memory and a processor. Programs would be submitted in a custom assembly language, and they would try to run a f...

^ reminds me of corewar
Q: Getting OUTPUT LIMIT EXCEED in C++ Program

Shoaib KhalidI'm solving Weird Algorithm problem. The problem has been solved but facing an OUTPUT LIMIT EXCEED issue. Searched a lot but could not find any way to get rid of this issue. #include<iostream> using namespace std; void fun(int n) { if(n!=1){ if(n%2==0) { n=n/2; ...

4:44 PM
I am trying to find a site where, instead of codegolfing, one can post (or see) good snippets to do a common task. Ie, not an obscure, codegolfed, one, but a clear, concise, elegant one, in several langages.
@OlivierDulac Comparative programming, you mean?
maybe... I am not familiar with this name, I'll have a look
thanks, I'll get a look
it's quite a good start, thank you @Adám. (I initially was looking at : codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/44680/… but lamenting that the answers are often too short to be meaningful, and so do not exactly showcase a langage feature, just it's codegolfing possibilities)
@cairdcoinheringaahing what does quick mean?
@Anush A "quick" is a term in Jelly for a special token: github.com/DennisMitchell/jellylanguage/wiki/Quicks
ah ok thanks
They're Jelly's functions that manipulate atoms (e.g. while, for, reduce etc.)
APL operators :-)
I thought that was the APL name, but I didn't want to get it wrong :)
5:02 PM
They are called "adverbs" and "conjunctions" in J and "modifiers" in BQN.
In mathematics and computer science, a higher-order function is a function that does at least one of the following: takes one or more functions as arguments (i.e. procedural parameters), returns a function as its result.All other functions are first-order functions. In mathematics higher-order functions are also termed operators or functionals. The differential operator in calculus is a common example, since it maps a function to its derivative, also a function. Higher-order functions should not be confused with other uses of the word "functor" throughout mathematics, see Functor (disambiguation...
5:16 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

bigyihsuanTags: code-golfunicodestringconversion Interpret a Cangjie Input Method String The Cangjie input method is a method for inputting Chinese characters using a standard QWERTY-like keyboard. Each Chinese character is encoded as a sequence of Latin letters, each letter representing a radical, or part...

@OlivierDulac On Code Review, you can get help making your code more clear and elegant, but that's not quite the same, I guess.
CMP: Should be a synonym of , or the the other way around?
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI : no, not really what I'm looking for (good exemples in a given (yet unknown or not fully groked) langage. RosettaCode may be good (but some exemples are not great...)
@RedwolfPrograms the main one should definitely be
5:18 PM
There's also , should that one be kept or also made a synonym of it?
@OlivierDulac Are you interested in videos too?
I suggested the synonym. If anyone here has 5 score in , you should be able to vote on it. If you don't, if you post some answers on you should definitely get a few upvotes and be able to vote
@Adám : if you know good ones, yes. I found a few good videos on Derek Banas youtube (good because: short enough for an experienced programmer/scripter to see the main features and syntax of a new langage in a few minutes instead of hours, and covering enough material in 1h or less to be usefull)
Also I just hit 100 bronze badges!
@RedwolfPrograms Also made a synonym
5:21 PM
I'll go suggest that one too
@RedwolfPrograms Not so sure about this one
@OlivierDulac Do you have a specific language/set of languages in mind?
I'll wait and let someone else suggest it if they think it's a good idea.
That way someone else can get synonymizer too ;|
That winking face looks like it is in severe pain
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Well definitely shouldn't be a synonym of , but is more broadly about methods of encoding/decoding, in the same way that encryption can also refer to decryption in a vaguer sense, so I think it should be.
I want to grok at least : lisp (common lisp, scheme, or maybe new variants), python, perl, Golang, prolog, smalltalk. Bonus point (for an unrelated/tangent request) if you know GOOD videos about functionnal programming (difficult to find good ones.. Just found 2 recently, by the same guy : Scott Wlaschin)
How about making encoding-decoding or something like that?
5:24 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Can we get some stars on this? It needs 4 votes to be approved and I don't think people get notified
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI I don't know, that seems like a bit of an awkward name
Hmm, maybe warn about it in the tag wiki then
@OlivierDulac For Smalltalk, here's a small article that I found useful. As for Prolog, here is a chat room where you may find more help.
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI thanks
I think should definitely be a synonym of ; should I wait on it to let more people get the badge (assuming my vote is binding) :P
Oh, I suggested it the other way around.
or is it only the suggester who gets it
and not voters
5:34 PM
Only the suggester
also i meant [encode] as a synonym of [encoding]
Oh ok
I was just saying I'd let someone else suggest decode if that's what we decide on, so they can get the badge too :p
well, my vote doesn't seem to be binding :P although, I can vote, even though I've never answered an encoding question
If anyone answers questions, let me know and I'll upvote them
Not that I won't already know from the userscript ;|
Um, that doesn't sound ethical
5:37 PM
wdym? Obviously I won't upvote bad answers
Right, but if you wouldn't have upvoted them normally, it doesn't seem right to upvote for the encoding tag
I see your point, but the main reason I usually don't upvote every new answer is that I try to prioritize ones on my questions since there's a max of 40/day
Otherwise I totally would upvote them normally
It'd be unethical for sure if it was because of who was posting it, but IMO upvoting an already good answer when it also helps with site cleanup is fine
CMT (chat mini tip): you can middle-click on browser tabs to close them
More general CMT: middle-clicking on things is often a useful shortcut for something, so try it out now and again
3 finger clicking on my laptop
also, middle clicking links opens them in a new tab without switching
5:41 PM
Additional CMT: On Firefox, you can middle-click the blank space after existing tabs to open a new one
@RedwolfPrograms That makes sense
(I don't think it works in Chrome though)
@pxeger 3 finger tapping? It does the same thing as hitting the Windows key on my laptop :(
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI You may be able to change that in your touchpad's driver's settings
Or maybe even in the normal Windows settings app
Thanks, let me try that
5:49 PM
Hi, I have a question: Does somebody know if I can use the html layout of isaacg's language pyth publicly? Non commercially, of course.
Like the online interpreter?
I will mention the source if I have to...
@RedwolfPrograms Yes
The one at herokuapp
Not sure about the UI, but the repo for the language itself is MIT licensed
Looks like you should be able to use it, yeah
Ok, thanks.
Irritatingly, I have a score of 15 in , but that doesn't mean I can suggest it as a synonym of , as I need a score of 5 in to suggest tags as synonyms of it ಠ_ಠ
5:59 PM
Seeing as there's so few encoding questions, could we just retag all of them encode?
I thought we were doing it the other way around
Currently, is the tag that will stay and will go
But there's no point in editing, that's what tag synonyms are for
Plus it's good to have it as a synonym
ninja'd again
Oh, I got confused
6:00 PM
We need some samurai
To fight the ninjas
@RedwolfPrograms with New Posts: if the post expires without you clicking on the tab, it still shows (1) in the tab, but visiting the page shows no posts
Oh, didn't think of that. I'll go add that to my latest version
I'm very slightly starting to regret my bounties
6:16 PM
Q: Fastest draw in the west!

tuskiomiWe're going rootin' tootin' cow-poke shootin! This is a simple contest, first program to draw their pistol wins. How it works: I require 2 things from you, an executable, and a command to be run from a bash terminal. The executable needs to do one thing: wait until it receives 'draw!' from STDIN...

@Wezl Write up a good Scala answer and I'll give you 100+ rep :)
no I mean I regret them because now I can't start any more bounties :)
rats, vote limiting ::(
@Wezl Yeah, the 3 bounty limit is annoying :\
now I can't vote either way
and I can't just accept answers on questions that aren't mine
6:31 PM
@OlivierDulac youtube.com/codereport has many videos where he compares solutions in multiple languages.
@OlivierDulac ^ also makes videos about category theory and previously SICP
Oh nice!!! I was gonna bring it up on MM again in a week or so if they still didn't address it, but I'm glad they got around to it.
Hey, they did it in less than 6-8 months (though it was a close call!)
Finally! Hooray!
My opinion of SE has gone up from somewhere far in the negatives to slightly closer to neutral.
Looks like SE just went through a bug crunch, judging from the number of and posts on MM Recently Active :D
7:38 PM
This looks interesting, they've just tagged it with (and see Anita's answer)

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