The Nineteenth Byte

ASCII-only

00:00

@Pavel well... the brain is a neural network

computers use an artificial neural network

Pavel

yes

that was indeed the point

Veskah

Also, if I vanish mysteriously, it means I was too close to the truth and Dennis dispatched TIObots to silence me.

Downgoat

00:59

for the truth machine catalog do answers need to be full programs or are functions ok

no idea how IO should work in VSL yet...

Pavel

@Downgoat What do you mean?

Downgoat

01:22

@Pavel VSL can't take input from STDIN for the truth machine challenge yet

I suppose it technically could but not really

Pavel

When you're asking how it should work do you mean what the functions for it should look like or what

lirtosiast

@LeakyNun Is this even computable?

Pavel

@Downgoat please make input reading support line editing

BMO

@lirtosiast You could use it to solve the Halting problem, but "in a language of a choice" means you can pick one where the Halting problem can be solved ;P

Downgoat

@Pavel example?

ASCII-only

01:29

@BMO so... one of ais's

Downgoat

@Pavel both as in things like buffering, async behavior, etc

BMO

@ASCII-only Do they only have non-TC langs?

ASCII-only

@BMO no, but they have plenty of uncomputable ones

uncomputable as in too powerful to compute :P

lirtosiast

@BMO can't we just choose the trivial language then?

BMO

@ASCII-only No you'd need easier languages which are not even TC

Pavel

01:33

@Downgoat readline

BMO

@lirtosiast I guess, but they still need to be able to do computations on natural numbers, so it's not soo easy

Pavel

The c library

ASCII-only

@BMO why not more powerful

Pavel

@Downgoat readln with optional filehandle argument

lirtosiast

@BMO Unless I'm missing something it seems like the challenge is ill-defined

BMO

01:33

Because you can't even solve it for TC languages, so you'll want a less powerful model where you can solve the Halting problem

Pavel

Just do it synchronously by default

lirtosiast

what is the class of "computations on natural numbers" defining the minimum power of such a language?

ASCII-only

@BMO no, IIRC ais has languages powerful enough to solve the halting problem. the only problem is that they're too powerful to create an interpreter for

BMO

@ASCII-only Aah, you're thinking of a language to solve the problem in :) I was thinking of what language's code complexity to determine

ASCII-only

hmm. well i'm assuming the language can (theoretically) be both

lirtosiast

01:38

The language you solve it in has to be more powerful than the language you solve it on

BMO

@lirtosiast Yes, unless you define some weird language which cannot exist

Is there a computation model between FSM and push-down automata?

Downgoat

@Pavel I thought about this but linking GNU readline is non-trivial dependency

Pavel

@Downgoat Grab the source and shove it into vsl?

Then you don't need to link

lirtosiast

02:13

Has the idea of duels ever come to anything, and does the community still think it a good idea?

DJMcMayhem

@lirtosiast There have been several duels before. I think most of the community thinks they're a good idea, there's just nothing official about them

lirtosiast

So there's no official list anywhere?

Also, any duels between golfing languages?

ASCII-only

02:37

~~Charcoal and Canvas would be a good one~~

Veskah

A duel between Jelly and a .45

DJMcMayhem

02:58

I've gotten in a lot of unofficial V/osabie duels, but I'm pretty sure osabie has the upper hand %98+ of the time

ASCII-only

yeah. O5AB1E beat Charcoal in ASCII-art once :(

lirtosiast

Charcoal spends a lot of its codepage on non-ASCII art things now, no?

ASCII-only

kinda but not really

there are a lot more operators now, i guess

but you kinda need some processing capabilities in addition to drawing commands anyway

Downgoat

@Pavel readline is pretty huge with history and all

I can probably just enable cook mode

Leaky Nun

03:22

@lirtosiast see, the point of my cmc was to create a discussion, which it succeeded to :p

BMO

@LeakyNun But the real question is, did you have a special model in mind where you would have considered a solution to be interesting?

Also does nobody know of sth. between a FSM and push-down automata?

Veskah

The real answer is the friends we made along the way

Pavel

04:06

@Downgoat history is good tho

lirtosiast

@BMO I barely even know what those are, but my intuition for the power of grammars / models of automata is that there are always more in between

BMO

@lirtosiast Maybe there is, I don't know

My intuition tells me the opposite :S

Thinking that you can do pretty weird things (like allowing non-determinism) and ending up with the same model or the Church-Turing thesis

lirtosiast

Hmm

Allowing nondeterminism seems like an obvious thing though

BMO

04:21

If you're familiar with the concepts..

I don't think it was obvious to me that an NFA is equivalent to an DFM before knowing the proof

lirtosiast

Maybe some class B can be generated by saying "C but you can't do x" or "A but you can also do x" where x is some particular operation that isn't C-complete

BMO

I don't think such an x always exists?

lirtosiast

Nested word

In computer science, more specifically in automata and formal language theory, nested words are a concept proposed by Alur and Madhusudan as a joint generalization of words, as traditionally used for modelling linearly ordered structures, and of ordered unranked trees, as traditionally used for modelling hierarchical structures. Finite-state acceptors for nested words, so-called nested word automata, then give a more expressive generalization of finite automata on words. The linear encodings of languages accepted by finite nested word automata gives the class of visibly pushdown languages. The...

I think I found on on Wikipedia?

BMO

@lirtosiast Ah nice, seems like that's the case

BMO

04:40

That's a nice find :)

New Main Posts

05:07

0

Q: Modular distance

Dropping this question here because I've been stuck for hours now. I want to correctly calculate the maximum modular distance between numbers in a list. Modular distance is the smallest distance two numbers would be apart from each other on a clock with x markers. Take a regular clock (twelve mar...

math

wizzwizz4

12:36

Does anyone know if you can change the name / email address associated with a Heroku App account?

primo

16:04

(haskell) for the default guard, is there anthing shorter than f n|0<1=... ?

H.PWiz

Not in general

Sometimes you can skip it with a pattern match below

primo

f n|n<9=0;f n=...
f n|n<9=0|0<1=...

seems shorter just to define the default separately

or wait, no difference :/

H.PWiz

There is also that you can put some computation in the guard: f n|a<-n+2=...

primo

that is interesting

H.PWiz

I'm waiting for your λ answer in Haskell now ;). I've nearly caught up to you in julia

primo

16:14

i'll let you know when i pass you :p

lirtosiast

18:54

Does any kind of spreadsheet of golfing languages exist listing their various advantages and disadvantages?

Adám

@lirtosiast Yes. It was announced here in chat, I think. Let me see if I can find it.

@lirtosiast github.com/ETHproductions/golfing-langs

lirtosiast

ty

I wonder if we could add columns to that like "number of builtins (tens, hundreds, thousands", "syntactical efficiency (low-high)", "variance in code length (low-high)"

oh @Adám I also have a question for you

DJMcMayhem

That page looks absolutely horrific on mobile

lirtosiast

I remember reading something about the original motivation of trains being that they were somehow theoretically most concise? But I can't find it anywhere

do you know if it's true that the problem of compressing the function tree was studied in detail?

primo

19:35

@H.PWiz your move

H.PWiz

19:45

Nice. Let me think of something clever

Turns out I didn't need anything clever :p

Adám

@lirtosiast No, the original motivation for trains (specifically forks) was as a means of expressing what in TMN (Traditional Mathematical Notation) is denoted f+g. Note that + here acts exactly like an APL operator in that it derives a new function from f and g just like . does in f.g and ∘ does in f∘g. So Iverson played with each (scalar) function having a companion operator (its symbol was the scalar function with an overbar, e.g. + had ∓←{⍺←⊢ ⋄ (⍺ ⍺⍺ ⍵)+(⍺ ⍵⍵ ⍵)}).

lirtosiast

Hmm

Adám

Naturally, this lends itself well to an operator that takes three operands, which APL operators cannot. Eventually, it dawned on him that f g h could be introduced as a functional form.

lirtosiast

And this was when, the 70s, before J?

primo

drat

H.PWiz

19:55

I had a=<<b.c<$> in my program, and golfed it a.b.c=<<

primo

yours is a lot more complex than mine

Adám

@lirtosiast Late '80s, right before "J".

primo

i don't have a single composition >_<

lirtosiast

> Iverson and Whitney have made several earlier suggestions of ways to achieve what the fork form provides: the scalar operators of [Iv78], [Iv79a], [Iv 79b], the til operator of [Iv82], the union and intersection conjunctions of [Iv87], and the yoke adverb of [Iv88]. Benkard [Bk87] has also suggested a way to achieve the meaning of this form, in his proposal for ↑g/(f h)⍺ ⍵ , using the notion of function pair (↑ is APL2’s first function).

H.PWiz

@primo The complex stuff is me trying to compress the polynomial. I only started using things outside ascii this afternoon (GMT)

lirtosiast

19:57

Huh, I assume scalar operators are the overbar ones? What are til, union and intersection conjunctions, and yoke?

H.PWiz

It only saved a dozen or so bytes

primo

same

H.PWiz

Have you seen this? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/48220543#48220543

Adám

@lirtosiast Yes, he was struggling with it for a decade.

primo

@H.PWiz interesting, i just stuck to CJK, because i knew it worked

Adám

20:01

@lirtosiast Yes. Intersection and Union operators are here.

@lirtosiast Til is here. Yoke is here.

primo

@H.PWiz is there a way to avoid needing toInteger?

H.PWiz

Don't think so

Riker

@flawr Olive Garden: Defying the laws of the universe since the Big Bang

lirtosiast

@Adám Seeing the development is fascinating, thank you

flawr

@Riker hehe:)

(had to google what Olive Graden is. First expected it to be a video game.

)

Pavel

20:15

wut

go to olive garden it's delicious

and you get unlimited breadsticks

Dennis

Flying to the US to get some food seems impractical.

6

Pavel

They don't only exist in the US

FrownyFrog

Kuwiat, Peru, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, US, Malaysia, Equador

Erik the Outgolfer

and that's why using "a"/"an" correctly is important...

FrownyFrog

mostly complete list

Pavel

20:18

@FrownyFrog I googled just now and there's definitely olive garden(s?) in switzerland

FrownyFrog

that's a relief

flawr

@FrownyFrog yep, everything is at least about an 8 hour flight away from me

Pavel

Don't you live in switzerland

Or am I thinking of someone else

flawr

@Pavel found it on google maps too, but it seems to have a different logo

Dennis

@Pavel They don't exist here though. I'd definitely have to leave the country. I'd probably have to fly.

flawr

20:22

and it isn't on the map of the us version

so I think it might be independent

Pavel

Mm ⍨

flawr

the one in Kuwait is probably closest

Pavel

lol

flawr

oh, that is only a 968 hour walk according to google maps

AdmBorkBork

Practically next door

flawr

20:29

yeah, maybe in the US:P

AdmBorkBork

Nah ... New York City to San Francisco is 959 hours walking according to Google.

The US is big, but it's not that big.

Pavel

come to think of it, I just realized I have no idea where kuwait is

El'endia Starman

It's over... [searches on Google Maps] there!

Dennis

Too far away for unlimited breadsticks.

AdmBorkBork

You know that big geopolitical quagmire known (in the US) as the Middle East? Yeah, over thataway.

Dennis

20:41

Unless breadsticks are actually unlimited and I never have to buy food again.

DJMcMayhem

Even though Olive garden breadsticks are one of favorite foods ever, I don't think I could handle eating them for the rest of my life

AdmBorkBork

@DJMcMayhem There's a joke in there somewhere ... similar to build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

ngn

20:56

maybe they meant an infinite number of breadsticks whose total size is finite, like 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ...

Dennis

Mmmh, subatomic breadsticks.

AdmBorkBork

At some point you transition to "crumbs" instead of "breadsticks," though.

ngn

planck length crumbs

Riker

@flawr is this a swiss snake

@Dennis unless it's in-n-out, then it's 100% worth it

flawr

hehe:D

Riker

21:03

related to that one linguistics post i guess

flawr

yep

no snake makes ßßßßßßßßß

nope rope

Riker

@flawr around here our snakes sometimes make ʙ though

though it's not quite what they sound like

flawr

actually I only ever saw a wild snake maybe 2 or 3 times

and they never made any noise

Riker

move to california, we have ~~hotels~~ snakes galore

flawr

except the telepathic omf lets gtfo here

Riker

21:08

lol

Dennis

@Riker Did expect pickup method, not fast food chain.

Riker

has great food

one downside is no avocados or bacon but the grilled onions are dope

Dennis

Avocado on hamburgers?

Riker

yeah it tastes pretty good, google it.

AdmBorkBork

Avocado on hamburgers is delicious, but I'm allergic so /sadface

Riker

21:14

i've had this exact kind of burger at this chain before

Dennis

I think I had a burger with fake guacamole before.

Riker

to be fair my city is fully hipsterified so it may just be a local thing

@AdmBorkBork you live in minnesota right? so it's not a local thing

AdmBorkBork

How do you make fake guacamole? That's like eating a fake apple.

@Riker It's definitely uncommon here in Minnesota, but not unheard of.

Riker

@AdmBorkBork I mean I'm remembering that minnesota doesn't get above like 85 F° / 30 C° so y'all don't really even possess avocados

AdmBorkBork

Like peanut butter on a muenster or Swiss cheeseburger. Nom nom nom.

Dennis

21:16

@AdmBorkBork They just mashed some avocados.

flawr

@Riker hipsterified or hipsterrified?

Riker

@Dennis what else do you normally put in your guacamole? (here's it's just salsa stuff)

AdmBorkBork

Nah, it's not the heat that's a problem. We'll hit 100F in summer. It's the cold, as even really hardy plants will succumb to a Minnesota winter, where we'll regularly get to -20F (-30C)

Riker

@flawr i see what you did there, +1

flawr

:)

Riker

21:18

@AdmBorkBork avocado trees will get frostburn at basically just under 40, so that's gonna be a no from me captain

(my family used to wrap our avocado trees up with grey landscaping paper to prevent that)

Dennis

@Riker Salt, cilantro, jalapeño, lemon juice, tomato, and green onion.

Riker

@Dennis hm, I've never had guacamole like that on burgers, only just plain avocado

mınxomaτ

Terra's metaprogramming looks like a neat environment to implement an esolang compiler: terralang.org/#compiling-a-language

Dennis

@Riker Well, I also had plain avocado on my burger. They just called it guacamole.

AdmBorkBork

@Riker Even trees that are cold-hardy can literally burst from really cold temperatures.

Dennis

21:24

I didn't care for it.

Riker

@AdmBorkBork well 40° isn't generally considered too cold last I checked

Dennis

Both the taste and the deception.

AdmBorkBork

Nah, that's light jacket weather around these parts, if that.

DJMcMayhem

Avocado is disgusting.

Blech

@AdmBorkBork PB on burgers is delicious.

Veskah

Avocado is exceedingly okay sometimes

Riker

21:26

@DJMcMayhem 2 heresies in a row wow that's almost a record

DJMcMayhem

I could go for three

Riker

shoot

Veskah

Someone's cruisin' for a purgin'

Riker

he's a mod I wish

AdmBorkBork

@NMP ... FORTRAN?

flawr

21:28

@Veskah that feels like size XXM t-shirts

Veskah

@flawr How did you know what size I wear?

AdmBorkBork

I'm not familiar with FORTRAN, but "enddo" is a pretty rare keyword.

Riker

@FrownyFrog how'd you find that name so quick? have you used the textbook?

DJMcMayhem

@Riker In&out is overrated :P

Riker

@flawr to quote an old xkcdsucks, "aggressively mediocre"

@DJMcMayhem yeah ok banned

Veskah

21:30

In&Out's fries are a bit shite if we're being honest. Rest of the food is dang good

DJMcMayhem

I'm just messing with you, in&out is pretty great

I also quite like Five Guys

Riker

@Veskah yeah plain but animal fries are great

@DJMcMayhem a bit too greasy for me but the cajun is great

do you have in-n-out/five guys in CO?

flawr

wait in-&-out is a restaurant chain too?

DJMcMayhem

I think technically yes, but like 8 hours from where I live iirc

Riker

@flawr yes

DJMcMayhem

21:31

@flawr yeah (burgers)

Erik the Outgolfer

@flawr um... definitely

FrownyFrog

ctrl-F fortran

Riker

it's in-N-out though, it's not a full and/ampersand

@FrownyFrog ah nice

@flawr in-n-out.com

Veskah

@Riker Didn't try that when I had the chance, nearest one is like 4 hours away

Pavel

Honestly my favorite kind of burger is the mcdonalds 99 cent cheeseburger for it's speed, simplicity, and cost while not compromising on deliciousness

Riker

21:32

road trip!

@Pavel haven't been to mcdonalds in a solid 3 years, in-n-out is just as cheap but better food

Veskah

Yeah, but it's in Chicago and driving in Illinois is about as fun as a root canal done with acid

Pavel

Admitedly the build quality is rather sloppy

Riker

what did they forget to compile with -Wextra

DJMcMayhem

@Riker Just looked it up, I thought there was one in like Colorado springs or something, but it turns out no

There are plenty of five guys though

Riker

there was definitely one in CO springs previously, I've been there

(to CO springs and had in-n-out somewhere nearby)

DJMcMayhem

21:33

Maybe it closed? Idk

New Main Posts

-1

Q: What programming language is this?

Taken from page 34 of this textbook. I want to do the exercise and am not sure what programming language the authors are using. double precision :: x, delta_x, sum integer, parameter :: SLICES=100000000 sum = 0.d0 ; delta_x = 1.d0/SLICES do i=0,SLICES-1 x = (i+0.5)*delta_x sum = sum + 4....

c c++

Riker

that was easily 8+ years ago though

Dennis

The plain cheeseburger is definitely the best thing at McDonald's, unless you're lucky enough to be in one that serves the McRib.

Veskah

Whattaburger is also pretty fire as an aside

Riker

nearest one to me is in pasadena I think, traffic is a slog to get there

Dennis

21:35

The best thing at McDonald's isn't a very high bar though.

12

DJMcMayhem

@Riker So it looks like they're on the way but not their yet: theknow.denverpost.com/2017/11/30/…

Veskah

Best thing at McD's is confetti pies and the McGangBang

Riker

huh I could've sworn that I'd had one

I was really young thouhg, so it must have been somehwere on the ride to/from CA to CO

DJMcMayhem

I'd much rather go to Good Times. It's like McD but way better

Dennis

@Veskah The McWhatNow?

Veskah

21:37

McChicken inside of a McDouble, I didn't name it

flawr

I've never liked MD so I only ever went there in emergencies. I might reconsider when they serve McMayhems

9

DJMcMayhem

:D

Veskah

Me and my friends took the McGB up to its logical conclusion, the McSin. Big Mac inside a Double Quarterpounder inside a double quarterpounder

AdmBorkBork

Okay but why though

Veskah

It sounded like a bad idea at the time

Pavel

21:41

@Dennis I have a theory that food deliciousness is inversely proportional to its cost. There are some exceptions, like steak, but in general I find junk food is preferable to fancy stuff in high-end restaraunts

Riker

you've been going to the wrong restaurants then

also there's a line between gourmet and overpriced

Downgoat

@Pavel this is the most America thing to say though as a goat I agree

Veskah

$8-15 plates is the sweet spot.

For the taste/price ratio

Pavel

@Riker As an example, Red Robin supposedly has "gourmet" burgers which have a bunch of extra crap thrown in that doesn't actually make an improvement over the McD's 99 cent cheeseburger

Riker

yeah I meant literal gourmet things not overpriced things labeled gourmet

Pavel

21:44

Where am I supposed to be eating, by your standards?

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel that's totally fair, but if you're actually getting good expensive food that doesn't apply

Dennis

@Pavel I do enjoy fast food, but McDonald's isn't really that high on my list anyone.

For starters, most of their stuff tastes too sweet.

Veskah

McD's non-value menu stuff has gotten expensive which is weird considering they're peddling grey meat and salt

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, I'd say it's actually largely unrelated. There's some cheap food that's nasty like most super cheap fast food places, and there's some cheap food that's incredible like good burger places. At the same time, a lot of stuff is overpriced, but some nice restaurants have incredible food.

Pavel

I don't think I've ever had something that tasted good at an expensive restaraunt that wasn't an overpriced version of something I could get for 5x less somewhere else. Except, as I mentioned, steak, which really does get better as it gets more expensive.

Maybe I'm just doing it wrong though

DJMcMayhem

21:48

Like, there's a jazz bar I've been to a couple times, and everything there is crazy pricy (like 10 dollars for cocktails) and 5 dollars for a small plate of fries... But at the same time those are the best fries I have ever had in my life. Basically gourmet poutine

New Main Posts

0

Q: Better than nothing

Have you ever used the 05AB1E(legacy) language on TIO ? Because if you do so, and you give no code, just input to the interpreter. it will output the following: Input: test Output: Not sure what to do now with the input, so I'll just make a snake: testt e s t ttset e s t ...

code-golf string ascii-art

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel Vegetables

Well cooked vegetables are amazing

Pavel

You know that phase small children go through where they don't eat vegetables
I kinda never grew out of that

I'm not saying you're wrong I guess I just have bad taste

Dennis

Expensive restaurants usually have pretentious versions of stuff I usually like. Like semi-raw meat.

Mr. Xcoder

First time I've read the TNB transcript thoroughly in over 2 weeks and see discussions about fast food at the end. Not being active here in a while reveals how diverse the topics of TNB are, cause when I last joined a talk here it was about languages and grammar :P

Veskah

21:51

@Pavel I broke that phase with stir-fry

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel same. Brussel sprouts, broccoli, asparagus mhmmm

Pavel

I eat onions and garlic and tomatoes basically

mostly on pizza and in ramen

DJMcMayhem

Tomatoes are one of the few foods I've never liked. They can be ok in some contexts, but I don't really like them overall

Veskah

@Mr.Xcoder Next, we're going to golf a delivery order

Riker

i've never had tomatoes in ramen

is that a thing

Pavel

21:53

it's not

I mostly shove whatever I have near me into ramen to add variety

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem Broccoli and asparagus are delicious, but I wouldn't eat brussel sprouts if you paid me.

Pavel

pro tip don't put ketchup in ramen it doesn't work

Veskah

We call that Struggle Ramen

DJMcMayhem

Egg-drop ramen with chicken and broccoli. 😋

Riker

@DJMcMayhem haven't had broccoli but that sounds great, beef is better though imio

Mr. Xcoder

21:55

I can't even stand seeing Brussel sprouts

DJMcMayhem

@Dennis Growing up, my dad would make them super awesome. I'm sure they'd be nasty raw, but fried in Olive oil so that the bottom is nice and crispy, and then with some garlic and salt and some other seasonings (I don't remember all of them) it's amazing

I think a little bit of Tabasco too?

Pavel

@DJMcMayhem So basically, drown out the crappy brussel sprout flavor with seasonings

DJMcMayhem

@Riker I don't cook bed very often

Wow, thanks autocorrect. *Beef

Pavel

I mostly buy beef that's been cooked

Veskah

@DJMcMayhem How do you season the pillows?

Riker

21:59

@Veskah smoked paprika

on-topic discussion for a moment: can a challenge refuse to explain the way the problem is supposed to be solved and only refer to an external test harness?

there's not much danger of the test thing going down but I'm not sure if you can rely oni it per our rules

we have 3 ppcg mods reasonably active right now so I'm certain one of them can give an authoritative answer

Doorknob

definitely not authoritative, but IMO how likely a link is to die shouldn't be considered when judging whether a challenge is self-contained

Riker

@Doorknob I meant it staying stable not really kicking the bucket all together but I just wanted an a more in-depth answer

Doorknob

I can't find an official source but I was under the impression that challenges that wouldn't be fully specified without external dependencies were at least discouraged

Riker

22:15

yeah that's what I thought, also regardless of external dependencies I believe we had a rule that challenges must explain how to solve the output, not just provide some test cases

(I vaguely remember a sequence one that didn't provide documentation for the sequence, just saying "figure it out")

Doorknob

I mean, as long as that's explicitly designated as the intent, I don't see why that shouldn't be allowed ("write any program that gives these outputs for these inputs")

dzaima

@Riker one of my questions was like that (there have been others IIRC), but it specifies the challenge 100% as the one test-case is the only test-case

Doorknob

yeah

and if the test case is a program, then that should be fine too (if the program is contained within the challenge)

of course if it asks you to extrapolate to unspecified cases then that's different

Riker

22:40

@dzaima yeah that's fine for KG

@Doorknob yeah that's what I meant, that one was a ,continue this sequence' challenge and there wasn't really any good way to standardize it without just saying the equation

lirtosiast

Why don't we just put the 05a1be legacy source on the challenge?

Riker

I mean yeah that's the desired result (preferably in english though, not python(?))

lirtosiast

osabie's source is now in Elixir, idk if it always was

Riker

ah yeah that sounds right

dzaima

it started out as python, though the snake code seems to be written in 05ab1e

Luis Mendo

22:58

The key to getting in shape faster is joining a gym you can't exit

8

(source)

ASCII-only

@LuisMendo twitter links onebox btw

Luis Mendo

Hm. I'm never sure. Thanks! (I'm assuming links is a name and onebox is a verb here)

Doorknob

@LuisMendo but if you go to emacs fitness you get a better finger workout

Luis Mendo

:-D

Veskah

I don't think I've ever properly quit a linux util on the first try

Conor O'Brien

23:03

@krinistof All posts on the Stack Exchange network have to be self-contained, so you need to describe the output exactly, one shouldn't need to analyze the pattern to figure it out. — Erik the Outgolfer 1 hour ago

> one shouldn't need to analyze the pattern to figure it out.

Veskah

One shouldn't need to analyze the pattern to figure it out?

Conor O'Brien

do we really discourage pattern analysis in challenges?

dzaima

@ConorO'Brien I had a comment there before that said that, without looking at the source code, I couldn't tell if there's a specific 100-char input that makes the interpreter output Hello, World!, which I'd be forced to know & implement to implement what 05AB1E does exactly. Pattern analysis, unless it gives 100% of the patterns, doesn't really make sense

Conor O'Brien

I see your point. But Erik's comment still stands as an absolute rejection of pattern analysis, which I see as misrepresenting the values of this site. I haven't been very active recently, so I'm wondering, am I mistaken in what I think the site values?

dzaima

@ConorO'Brien what in your mind would be a good pattern analysis question?

Conor O'Brien

23:12

well, for starters, most Kolmogorov complexity challenges are pattern analysis

dzaima

@ConorO'Brien those are fine (again, self-advertising my non-closed question) AFAICT

it's when there's information you need that you can't gather from the challenge when problems arise

Conor O'Brien

yeah

I'm trying to think of a good input-based, pattern analysis question but am currently falling short

Bubbler

Easy way: Give just a small set of input -> output pairs

But then someone comes up with division chain and everyone is porting it around

ASCII-only

23:31

~~anyone here know Groovy?~~ nvm

Neil

the only burger I can eat is the McD ¼lber with cheese

Veskah

23:41

You know they don't have that in France?

ASCII-only

help what am i doing wrong? working, not working

wait wat

it's fine now. huh

quartata

@ConorO'Brien i would reply to your tweet but im at exactly 299 tweets

thank u for ur understanding

ASCII-only

23:58

@ConorO'Brien ~~prime spiral~~

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