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12:07 AM
@Zacharý Sounds like a HW assignment to me
 
@mudkip201 At least they know how to make it actually a golf question.
 
12:28 AM
Does TIO not support HTTP reqs? I am trying to do one with wolfram and getting: URLFetch::invhttp: Could not resolve host
 
Could not resolve host doesn't sound like an issue on the server side.
 
@Neil Do you think a 1-byte sign builtin for Charcoal would be useful?
 
I don't remember needing it offhand
 
It might be useful for alphabet cannon and horizontal ASCII snake? Not sure though
 
1:12 AM
I'm working on a language where the only data type is UInt32. I suppose I use UTF-32 for string encoding? Does that do anything particularly weird?
 
It's incredibly inefficient and not supported by anything.
 
Is it just 0-padded UTF-8
 
@Pavel IIRC no
 
Well, the language is about bitwise operations, so the internal representation matters, even if I convert to UTF-8 before printing.
 
Not at all. UTF-32 is simply base 256, padded to 4 digits.
 
Anonymous
1:17 AM
@Pavel UTF-32 is just encoding the Unicode ordinal as a 32-bit integer
 
ngn
@Pavel what are your goals - brevity? performance? compatibility?
 
It's kinda a turing tarpit
Based on XOR
 
you should base it on nand
 
That exists already
Technically it's based on the operations NOT, CNOT and CCNOT.
 
@Pavel What is this, some kind of quantum turing tarpit?
 
ngn
1:28 AM
@Pavel quantum computing stuff? I have a lot to learn before I can catch up...
 
It really isn't. CNOT on regular bits is just XOR.
That said, I'm strongly considering reimplementing my language using Q#
 
ngn
@Pavel Microsoft and quantum computing - sounds like Pigs in Space :)
 
Huh?
 
An unlikely combination
 
Why's it unlikely
Microsoft does lots of things
 
1:38 AM
microsoft = pigs?
 
Nah
 
ngn
@DestructibleLemon "pigs in space" is an old sketch from the muppet show
 
yeah i was talking about why pigs in space is something Microsoft and quantum computing sounds like
 
ngn
@Pavel MS should master classical computing first, like write a decent OS :) I haven't seen anything good from them since NT4 and 2000
 
C#
C# is very good
 
ngn
1:44 AM
@Pavel nah... who needs a slightly better java
 
Or Java.
hides
 
s/slightly/way
C# is awesome
@ngn MS Office is good. Better than LibreOffice, at least.
 
The only thing I can't do reliably with LibreOffice is open those stupid MS Office formats.
 
ngn
@Pavel I agree with that
 
Which isn't surprising, as even different versions of MS Office aren't that compatible.
 
1:47 AM
The file format isn't great, but the software itself looks nice, runs fast, and is easier to use in my opinion
 
I wonder how long it will be before microsoft starts paying people to use MS office
it has to happen eventually
 
MS Flight Simulator is fun. Do we count that?
 
@Pavel true
wait have i even played that
 
Given the choice, I'd use LATEX anyway. WYSIWYG editors give me the heebie jeebies.
 
i remember a flight simulator on school computers
but i think that might have been on google earth or something
 
1:49 AM
Age of Empires is still great
 
@Pavel The only reason is because they created the file formats
 
The Kinect was actually an amazing piece of hardware once you stop trying to apply it to its original intended purpose.
 
Like how Adobe has full PDF support
@Dennis What about WYSIWYG LaTeX :P
 
shudders
 
@ngn Win10 is terrible even though they supposedly rewrote it completely
 
1:51 AM
 
I can honestly say I prefer MS Paint to GIMP. Fuck GIMP.
 
Still true if you replace Vista with 8, and 7 with 10.
 
@Dennis This is like Fuchsia beta
@Dennis *Vista with 8.1
@Pavel well I prefer paint.NET to paint
 
Agreed. I feel like there's no good simple image editing software for Linux
 
I'd say MS Paint is far worse than even GIMP
Like even if you don't count the features, MS Paint controls (?) are still super weird
 
ngn
1:54 AM
anyway... I only meant I don't expect a breakthrough in alternative models of computation to come from MS research
 
GIMP has these really weird layer controls that make it a PITA to operate on an entire image at once
 
was windows 8 really that bad compared to other windows versions anyway?
 
Yes.
 
Yes.
 
also that reminds me of one of my favourite quotes
 
1:55 AM
@Pavel How
 
"Macs are for people who don't know how to use computers" - person that doesn't know how to use computers beyond internet explorer and ms office
 
@ngn Well, they aren't really making any breakthroughs, are they? They're taking tech that other people have done the research for, and making it more easilly accessible to everyday people through Q#.
 
IMO Windows 8 was perfectly fine with Classic Shell
 
ngn
@Pavel the major problem with quantum computing is: we need the hardware...
 
May 1 '17 at 3:05, by Dennis
GNOME 3 is awful. Sure, you can install a gazillion extensions to make it less awful, but installing a sane DE is much easier.
s/GNOME 3/Windows 8
 
1:56 AM
@Pavel The thing is, Windows 8 only needs one...
 
@ngn Well Q# isn't bringing the hardware. It works with an emulator.
 
@ngn Of course. But you don't not write something just because the hardware isn't out yet, right?
What kind of studio waits for e.g. the Switch, Daydream, Oculus or PS4 to be released before they start developing
 
ngn
yeah, ok, I'm not trying to stop anyone
I'm interested in alternative models of computation too
but not quantum (at least I haven't studied it enough yet)
 
The Quantum Dev Kit is actually super easy to install if you want to check it out
 
I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact that Microsoft finally started to go open source.
 
2:02 AM
I want to say that they've been supporting Linux a lot more lately but everything that comes to mind is .NET and VS Code
 
ngn
@Pavel I heard news a year or two ago that they would be supporting ELF (linux exes)
 
Oh, yeah, that happened.
 
.NET means C#, F#, VB, and PowerShell though.
 
Windows Subsystem on Linux is basically reverse Wine
Also TS
(Not .NET but the compiler supports Linux)
 
TS?
 
2:04 AM
TypeScript
 
Right. It's even on TIO.
 
ngn
static typing is overrated... just my personal opinion
 
Heh, apparantly Microsoft powers Onedrive with Linux servers
@ngn It's signficantly faster performance-wise, and IMO leads to fewer errors.
 
@ngn Like ZISC? :P
 
ngn
@ASCII-only what does the Z stand for?
 
2:07 AM
@Pavel LLILC will eventually be completed too
@ngn zero
@Pavel except it works better because Linux is open source
 
Yep
 
TIO needs more OISCs.
 
ngn
@ASCII-only not that one :) I was referring to multiparty computation
 
@Pavel Yeah (e.g. PyPy is statically typed right?)
 
Do you mean MyPy?
Heh, apparantly Microsoft powers OneDrive with Linux servers.
 
2:09 AM
4 mins ago, by Pavel
Heh, apparantly Microsoft powers Onedrive with Linux servers
 
@ngn Would Ethereum count?
@Pavel no, I mean the RPython PyPy uses - it has no type declarations but is still statically typed and can compile to native IIRC
 
@Dennis I edited the message to add a period ;-;
Damn mobile chat
 
@Pavel You should submit an issue to mother meta
That's been a problem for way too long
 
I'm pretty sure SE is aware
They have to be
 
ngn
@ASCII-only I would count it as an alternative model of computation, yes. I don't know much about it other than the general idea. It's not MPC though, is it?
 
2:12 AM
@ngn It's a cryptocurrency that acts as a VM, i.e. everyone running it is essentially verifying the computations or something like that
 
@Dennis Would that help with running any particular language?
 
So IDK, probably not
@Pavel wait wat
 
ngn
@ASCII-only but do they see the actual data they are computing on?
 
@Pavel How would Turing tarpits manage to do that?
 
Oh also, would BOINC count
 
2:13 AM
I was wondering what the potential advantage of a OISC on TIO would be.
 
@Pavel It would be added as a language
 
They're additional langauges?
 
I thought you meant as in a computer with a one-instruction processor architecture
And was rather confused
 
@ngn idk, their website is here
@Pavel Yes, a virtual computer
I don't think an actual OISC computer exists, partly because it's so inefficient
 
why is wikimedia making me wait in line
 
2:16 AM
Someone should make a processor that natively runs BitBitJump
 
@Pavel More useful would be a processor that runs GoL :P
@DestructibleLemon wait wat
 
i don't know
I just wanted to look at public domain grasslands images
 
ngn
@ASCII-only maybe our universe is one of those :D
@Pavel what's BitBitJump?
 
@ngn OISC esolang
(TIO when)
 
ngn
2:27 AM
if/when FPGAs become popular, inexpensive, and open, we would be able to do things like that
 
So many acronyms in TNB rn
 
OISC, TIO, FPGA, TNB, RN, You're right ,,, there are a LOT of acronyms and/or abbreviations
 
You mised GoL, ZISC, VM, MPC
 
Apparently en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_All_the_Way_Down are different webpages despite the only difference being capitalization. First page is for the phrase, the second page is actually a disambiguation page.
 
ngn
@Zacharý what do you expect from golfers :)
 
2:31 AM
Was only writing what I saw, and if you put GoL, QFT MUST be there
 
@ngn *wdyexpect
 
@Pavel (TIO now) tio.run/#bitbitjump
 
oh cool
 
3:05 AM
The website of the company I work at was loading really slowly for everyone and no one could figure out why for months. Today it was discovered we were using an extremely high resolution version of our logo that was 80 megabytes.
14
 
Anonymous
@Pavel Seems like a good use of bandwidth
 
Wat...
 
Yeah we fixed that real quick
 
o_O
 
@Pavel 10/10
 
3:15 AM
80/80
 
On the bright side, it got our front-end dev to drop some entirely unneeded JS libraries in the hopes of boosting speed. I think the entire site has less than 200 lines of javascript for the entire thing and we were loading JQuery for it.
 
@Pavel 83886080/83886080
 
@Pavel Everyone loves JQuery though.
 
@Pavel who even uses JQuery now? everyone should just use zQuery
 
does anyone have any suggestions for a good LaTeX editor for fedora?
I tried texmaker but every time I try saving it just stalls for 10 seconds and then says that the process for the file protocol died
 
3:23 AM
clearly TexStudio :P
@Pavel also it's jQuery
 
(lol why the ":P")
 
@HyperNeutrino KDE Kile?
 
NVM not texmaker's fault, my computer just really hates me
I can't load files off of my USB either with the same error
lol I can't open /
 
@HyperNeutrino Are you using Dolphin?
 
3:27 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

HyperNeutrinoAre there mountain rings? code-golf matrix Challenge Given a matrix of positive integers, determine if there are any "rings" of mountains. The formal definition for this challenge is: given a 2D list of positive integers, is there any non-negative integer n for which there is a closed ring of c...

 
Try installing Nautilus. I had a weird bug the other day where Dolphin just refused to work.
It didn't go away for quite a while
 
hm ok
yay nautilus works, ty :D
 
@Pavel Do I hear someone using GNOME
 
No you don't
 
although saving files still doesn't work because it's trying to open the save dialog which is also ded
anyway brb o/
 
3:33 AM
@HyperNeutrino I had this issue twice, both times for around a week after installing Fedora. The file manager thing just didn't work.
I blame gremlins and/or Package-kit
 
I don't have Package Kit anymore :/
idk what it is then
 
It went away by itself for me
I guess just dnf update and restart occasionally
 
4:04 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

JungHwan MinIs this a truncated triangular number? Related OEIS sequence: A008867 Truncated triangle number A common property of triangular numbers is that they can be arranged in a triangle. For instance, take 15: o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o Let's define a "truncation:" chopping off tria...

 
4:40 AM
0
Q: The cell at the end of the rainbow

Jo KingWe all know of, or at least have heard of, brainfuck, one of the most famous and influential esotoric languages. While these days most implementations use an infinite tape, the original compiler by Urban Müller had a tape of 30000 cells. A little known fact* is that there is actually a special va...

 
@JoKing It's "esoteric" HTH
 
5:03 AM
Thanks
 
@ØrjanJohansen Klein can be esotoroidal :P
 
I'm sure there's an esotorrent of possible puns.
 
5:26 AM
There was some technology that allowed for the creation of "perfectly looping" GIFs, but I can't remember the name of it.
Like it segmented each frame of video into independent parts, finding the best places to cut and make a gif, allowing different parts of the gif to loop at different rates.
Hmm.. there might be a few projects that attempt to make perfectly looping gifs.
The project I'm thinking of definitely involved something more complex than just finding optimal start/ending frames though.
found it
Thanks guys, I know I can always count on TNB.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

JungHwan MinCrazy Bases base-conversion number-theory Related We have many challenges based on base 10, base 2, base 36, or even base -10, but what about all the other rational bases? Task Given an integer in base 10 and a rational base, return the integer in that base (as an array, string, etc.) Proces...

 
5:44 AM
@PhiNotPi Rubber duck web searching?
 
6:04 AM
> TFW your internet dies seconds before handing in an assignment
2
 
6:35 AM
hey everyone
May not be a TNB question, but you guys talk about everything and know about lots of stuff.
I have the GraphPad software and I want to make a Prism script to import 100 CSV files each into a data table. Has anyone done this before?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:48 AM
0
Q: How to print the below format in the fewest bytes?

Stewie GriffinThis challenge is inspired by this, now deleted question. Take a positive integer N as input, and output a matrix with the numbers 1 - N^2 that follows the pattern below: Fill in the first row with 1-N then fill the last row (row number N) with (N+1)-2N, then fill the second row with (2N+1)-3...

 
8:47 AM
0
Q: Visit and exit an array

Kevin CruijssenChallenge: Input: An integer n (> 0) An integer-array a of size > 0 (which contains positive and negative values, but no zeroes) Output: First output the first n items Then take the last item you've outputted (let's call it e), and go e steps forward if e is positive, or abs(e) steps backw...

 
9:04 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

SanchisesThis challenge is about recursion cops-and-robbers In many languages, recursive functions can significantly simplify a programming task. However, the syntax overhead for a proper recursion may limits its usability in code-golf. The cops will create a program or function taking a single intege...

 
 
1 hour later…
10:05 AM
@ØrjanJohansen *Rubberducking
 
10:52 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Kevin CruijssenWe ended up where we started!.. code-golfstringmatrix Sandbox questions: Any other relevant tags? I have yet to figure out if every configuration ends up at the initial positions. If anyone knows a test cases where this is not the case let me know, then I'll try to define something dif...

 
 
2 hours later…
12:33 PM
@ASCII-only change the what? for example a = 3; a += 4.5 changes a's type from int to float, I'm not sure what you mean
 
1
Q: Given a string, find out if its characters can be rearranged to form a palindrome

Jakub WróbelCould anyone give a hint what is wrong with my code? def palindromeRearranging(inputString): m=[] if len(inputString) ==1: return True for i in inputString: if i in inputString: m.append(i) if m.count(i)%2==0: m = True else: m = Fa...

 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

akavelShortest safe one-liner to check a password against HIBP v2 range API code-golf Per https://www.troyhunt.com/ive-just-launched-pwned-passwords-version-2/, what would be the shortest one-liner to check a password against the Have I Been Pwned? k-anonymity (range) API, as mentioned in the articl...

 
12:48 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer yeah? but the operators you mentioned change every type to bool? which is not even closely related?
 
actually, I don't think augmented assignment is the way to go
however, something that lets you do something while only referring each variable used once would be useful
for example, some kind of eval that replaces occurrences of each variable by its value when referenced, and then get the variables as separate arguments
 
1:21 PM
@NewMainPosts ??!??! Why +1? Blame NMP.
 
CMC: Palindrome Anagram Checker
 
(Given a string of lowercase ASCII alphabet, check if there is a permutation of it that is a palindrome) Correct?
 
well, I guess lowercase is fine, I was thinking printable ASCII
but I have an idea which would prefer lowercase, so I'll go with that
 
Jelly, 7 bytes: ċЀQḂSỊ
 
05AB1E, 6 bytes: œεÂQ}Z
 
1:28 PM
gives 0
 
Jelly, 6 bytes: <all permutations><is palindrome><each><any>
 
Jelly, 6 bytes: Œ!ŒḂ€Ẹ
lol ninja'd
Jelly should add an "any by atom" quick or something like that
(probably going to add that to Neutrino)
 
@HyperNeutrino Feature suggestion: Last 3 as a something.
 
hm so $ but with more links
BTW I'm remaking Neutrino because the old implementation (which was just copy-pasted from Enlist) doesn't allow for things like "last link as n-adic link" to be (properly) implemented (I could do it but it would be really hacky and dumb and inconvenient and probably would end up breaking anyway)
 
noooo, I've got a proper Heisenbug... when I run the code in a debugger, the bug vanishes and when I attach a memory error detection tool, the bug changes -_-
 
1:33 PM
Try turning on compiler warnings?
 
but he said bug, not error
 
sounds like an uninitialised variable
 
I know, but most undefined behaviors can be caught by turning on compiler warnings.
 
@user202729 -Wall doesn't give any (well it gives an unused-variable warning, but that's it)
 
1:36 PM
@Neil Brachylog, 3 bytes (if I understood it correctly): p.↔
 
... Both all-permutations and is-palindrome are 2-byte for Jelly.
 
@user202729 Your comments on the latest NMP are, in my opinion, hovering at the edge of what would still be considered Be Nice. You don't need to sound so condescending to a new user to the site.
8
 
... Fine, thanks for reminding.
 
NMP?
 
New Main Posts.
 
1:41 PM
Consider that most people don't read the help center. Sure, that's their problem, but expecting people to have read it is usually not a good idea because that's usually not the case (and if they did, they probably would know not to post help questions to our site)
 
Still, I was very surprised that someone with upvote privileges would upvote that.
 
I would also think that in that case, since they're supposed to write a palindrome program, their confusion about which site to use is easier to understand
 
I mean, it's fixed now, but still.
 
"Do you understand what this site is for?" is like the least helpful comment you can give to someone who obviously does not know what PPCG is for
9
 
@AdmBorkBork ... Star? I don't think anyone would make the same (mistake), but still...
 
1:48 PM
@MagicOctopusUrn I don't understand your comment.
 
(maybe should refer to which comment)
 
@AdmBorkBork ... wait a minute, which comment(s) are you referring to?
@AdmBorkBork (as I left 3 comments on the post itself and 1 in TNB)
 
2:07 PM
@user202729 Two things in particular in the comments on this post. The first, "Do you understand what this site is for?" and the second your quote about SO not being a place to ask for help. Both sound, in my opinion, very condescending.
 
The quote is just a quote. If the original comment is not problematic this one isn't either.
(wait a minute looking up dictionary "condescending") (yes, my English is really bad)
 
It's the context that it's given in.
 
2
Q: Non-discriminating Programming

LaikoniWe say a string is non-discriminating iff each of the string's characters appears the same number of times and at least twice. Examples "aa!1 1 !a !1" is non-discriminating because each of the characters , !, a and 1 appear three times. "abbaabb" is not non-discriminating because b appears mo...

 
@user202729 condescending kind of means you're talking to people as inferiors
or at least your tone makes it sound as such
I personally find "Do you understand what this site is for?" to be just a question of "Do you understand or do you need some help with that?", and I don't find the tone to have any problems with it, but it could just have to do with different interpretations.
don't know how I missed the part about the program itself needing to be non-discriminating ._.
 
that style of asking is often used for disciplinary reasons, even irl
 
2:15 PM
[Jelly] Why can a link created by ƙ be dyadic?
Regarding API explanation, I put one already just below the URL; should I expand on it? — akavel 7 mins ago
 
@MartinEnder Comment O_o?
 
@MagicOctopusUrn the one you just left on my Glypho answer
well by now "just" was 36 minutes ago
 
@Pavel i actually ran into a similar issue a year or so ago
i guess the pngs we were using had a crapton of extra metadata in them
i opened them in mspaint and resaved them which reduced the filesize to a few kb
 
Can anyone explain this? Is that intended behavior? (and yes, the link is dyadic)
@NewMainPosts Very non-intuitive to golf in.
 
@HyperNeutrino Then? How does it help here?
 
Basically it groups them by equal elements and then maps the monad over those groups
 
I understand, but why over the right argument?
 
...because that's how it works?
 
it isn't over the right argument
it maps over the left argument and the that becomes the left value and then [5, 6, 7] becomes the top value and then the top value is printed
 
2:38 PM
@HyperNeutrino It is dyadic.
(what is "top value" and "left value"?)
 
like basically as you run through the program the left and right argument values change, the most recent value is printed
if you have a nilad and then another nilad, the first nilad is printed because the second nilad won't be able to fit with the first nilad in terms of argument values (assuming there is no dyad-nilad or nilad-dyad chain)
 
2:51 PM
my friend's response: the military and software world are closer than we think
 
Let H be the Walsh-Hadamard transform, and H' be its inverse.
So, if c = H'(H(a) * H(b)) where * denotes element-wise multiplication and the vectors are 0-indexing,
what would c[i] be in terms of elements of a and b? Sum(a[j]*b[k] where j xor k == i)?
 
codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/156849/… This got me thinking, is it possible to design a Turing Complete language that can be decidably said to halt or not? (No, you cannot do an evil bit)
 
@moonheart08 Of course no.
 
Yea, that's what i was thinking. Just a thought
 
(I have not proven whether the halting problem in that language is decidable)
 
2:56 PM
Well, if a proof is possible, i might try and do the challange. Issue is, of course, i have no idea if it's decidable
 
What...? The version with both ( and ) and infinite width is undecidable. If you don't believe that I will implement a TC language there. (of course I can't)
 
Oh, i must've overlooked a proof from you? :P
 
@Nitrodon (^^)
Let ( be BF -, ) be BF +. BF check for zero can be (x <= 0) and (x >= 0) (requires some effort)
That way you can convert any inputless BF program to SimplifiedHexagony with both ( and ).
 

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