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2:06 PM
@Mego not so bad considering you can steal PoW from bitcoin bitcoin uses double sha256
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

NathanielThis is a somewhat proof-golf-like cops-and-robbers challenge. I haven't thought of a good title yet. Cops Your task is to define an abstract rewriting system in which the reachability of one word from another is difficult to prove. You will prepare the following things: A set of symbols, cal...

 
Anonymous
2:21 PM
@NieDzejkob I'm going to make it be full programs later
 
Does anyone have MinGW + gcc set up and wants to help me test something?
 
also, the fun part is: the larger the codepoints, the harder the programs are to generate
@Dennis I've got it setup
 
Could you clone github.com/DennisMitchell/ffi, switch to the windows branch, and run ./ffi -p10 -e2 examples/primes09.frac 100 | head?
In the unlikely case that is actually works, could you also try without | head and interrupt the program with Ctrl-C?
 
I mean, I've got a cross-compiling setup with linux as the host and windows as the target. Is that what you need?
 
No, I need gcc under MinGW.
The interpreter generates a C file and compiles it.
 
2:34 PM
What's wrong with Windows?
 
I'm trying to fix a bug and I'd like to know if I managed to. Since I don't have Windows, and I can't test it myself right now.
 
I have MinGW-w64 on Windows.
 
Could you try the steps above?
 
2
Q: Counting Sheep to Fall Asleep

AdmBorkBorkMost people are familiar with the trope about counting sheep to fall asleep. There's a herd of sheep, some of them jumping over a fence, and you count the sheep as they jump. Supposedly, this helps quiet your mind and gets you into a sleep-like state so that you'll fall asleep. Here's an ASCII s...

 
But how can ffi run on Windows? It's a Linux executable...
 
2:47 PM
It's a shell script.
 
Even then Windows should not have sh.
 
MinGW does. In any case, python ffi.py instead of ./ffi would also work.
 
@Dennis That broke it
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/users/Pavel/git/ffi/ffi.py", line 74, in <module>
    ffi()
  File "C:/users/Pavel/git/ffi/ffi.py", line 70, in ffi
    print_exp = args.print_exp,
  File "C:\users\Pavel\git\ffi\lib\compiler.py", line 72, in run
    call([bin_file.name])
  File "C:\Program Files\Python36\lib\subprocess.py", line 267, in call
    with Popen(*popenargs, **kwargs) as p:
  File "C:\Program Files\Python36\lib\subprocess.py", line 707, in __init__
    restore_signals, start_new_session)
 
Just run python ffi.py, and no module named lib.
I guess I need some sys.path.append.
 
That shouldn't be needed.
 
2:51 PM
Actually a sys.path.append('.') make it work.
 
Is that not the default?
 
(Python 3.6.3 on Windows)
 
@Pavel I have to run the executable through MinGW, don't I?
Ugh, it would probably be easier to just use tcc.
 
I don't have cc, only gcc. So I can't run it.
 
@Dennis I wouldn't know, but when would calling an application called %1 be valid?
 
2:54 PM
unless I'm mistaken, cc is gcc
 
Yep
In Linux and MinGW, cc is gcc
 
@Pavel %1 is the first positional argument, not the actual name.
 
Use gcc instead of cc works for me (past that point at least)
 
So, you get the same error afterwards?
 
... Running the generated executable directly works for me.
 
2:56 PM
From MinGW?
 
... It's weird, I have no idea where does the %1 come from. bin_file.name is obviously C:\Users\ADmin\AppData\Local\Temp\tmp13sg4fc2 for me.
 
obviously
 
Maybe with an .exe extension?
 
That should help
 
	bin_file = NamedTemporaryFile(mode = 'rb', suffix = '.exe', delete = False)
(edit line 59 of lib\compiler.py)
 
3:00 PM
Yes, I just pushed that.
 
(side note: any idea why sys.path.append('.') is necessary for me when I import from .?)
 
@Dennis It now works the same as at the end of yesterday
Prints 10 values, then hangs
 
@Mr.Xcoder Thanks for the feedback. I created an issue. I don't have access to Safari at the moment, but I'll try to find some way to resolve it.
 
It prints indefinitely (forever) for me.
 
Nevermind
ABORT
You can't control c it when it's not piped into anything
 
3:03 PM
So it's strictly worse than with the shared object file. Awesome.
 
Yeah you somehow made it require both a broken pipe and SIGINT to quit.
 
That's both hilarious and infuriating.
 
Well, I'm off to school, and my laptop runs a sane operating system, so I can't help out anymore in the near future.
 
@NewMainPosts 0/10 you don't use goats instead :P
 
3:27 PM
I'm going to get Q# setup on my laptop instead
 
@Mr.Xcoder Sheep are goats are not related.
 
@Adám if sheep are goats how are they not related? :P
 
@EriktheOutgolfer ⍨
 
Sheep are evil, as we all know.
 
3:38 PM
@Adám Their ASCII-art representations are, however.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer say what
 
don't blame me
 
3:58 PM
3
Q: ID generator with no matching contiguous pairs

beirtipolGiven 2 inputs (m=minimum starting id, n=number of ids), generate a sequential list of ids, starting at >=m, made up of the digits 0-9 where no 2 contiguous numbers are the same, e.g. 1232 is ok, 1233 is not (contains 2 '3's next to each other). Example for m=985, n=6, below shows what ids woul...

 
4:16 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Magic Octopus UrnSelf-Counting Quine Your task is to create a quine that outputs its own length. The length is based on your programming language's code-page, any character within the code-page counts as 1 byte. Any character outside of the code-page is treated as a literal (E.G. 😁 is 4-bytes). As an additional...

 
@user202729 btw challenge updates don't apply retroactively
As, if the rules are kept they're bad, and if they're changed existing answers are invalidated (suboptimal). — user202729 22 mins ago
 
@EriktheOutgolfer They do.
 
oh huh, where is the consensus?
 
Java EE renamed Jakarta EE just now.
 
28
A: When should rule changes count?

Martin EnderRule changes are allowed They're often a very bad idea, but I don't think we should forbid them, regardless of whether they invalidate answers or not. Most of the time, rule changes are meant to improve the challenge. This can include closing loopholes as isaacg mentioned, but it can also mean ...

 
do comments not render properly for anyone else?
 
They're fine for me
 
... Stack Exchange likes killing old browsers.
 
refresh maybe?
 
4:35 PM
only seems to happen on some of the answers. I'll link to one when I manage to click the 'share' link...
 
@user202729 That.... PPCG, not SO.
 
I'm using Firefox 52.6.0
 
@Mr.Xcoder Better?
@NieDzejkob What's the latest version? (SE only support 2 latest ones)
 
Much better.
 
4:36 PM
@user202729 seems like 58.0.2
 
@NieDzejkob Then you're outdated by 6 versions. Update.
 
woah, why is Debian installing firefox-esr instead of firefox by default?
 
@NieDzejkob Cool, PPCG got its new design.
 
(unrelated note: I'm stlll trying without success to get EsotericIDE to run on Linux)
 
@Adám I disagree that adding more test cases adds anything at this point.
 
4:45 PM
@AdmBorkBork You need a test case that shows that one cannot just use a fixed number of columns on one side.
@AdmBorkBork I'd even say you clearly need, due to the two failing answers.
 
There already are two. n=11, m=6, and n=11, m=1.
 
@AdmBorkBork But they don't have a surplus of sheep.
 
n=11, m=9 doesn't have a surplus of sheep, either. All three test cases have 10 sheep in the top row.
 
@AdmBorkBork I'm not sure how to explain it.
 
Yeah, I feel I'm not understanding you.
 
4:55 PM
Finally!
I got Esoteric IDE (slightly outdated) to run on Linux.
(precisely, this commit)
 
@H.PWiz Done.
 
Nice!
 
@Mr.Xcoder nice!
 
@AdmBorkBork The layout task is so complex that the whole sheep art part is rather irrelevant. ;-)
 
Yeah. Looking at it more, I could've made the sheep even more simplistic. Oh well.
 
5:04 PM
@AdmBorkBork I'm modelling using just one character per type.
 
.oO ( Why does set.union fail for an empty collection? )
 
Yes.
 
and by "empty collection" you mean set() right? {} is empty dict instead ;)
 
It's a vararg function, so it's more like 0 arguments.
 
5:12 PM
and there's your issue, the arguments are in a tuple, not in a set
 
That has nothing to do with tuples and sets.
 
what is your error exactly?
oh you mean set.union?
 
0
Q: writing a menu in C++

Donald Waddell• getVideoGameInfo This function will prompt the user to enter all 5 data members of the class and store them in a VideoGame object that will be returned to main • menu This function will display the following menu to the screen Update Game Information A – Add to stock R – Remove from ...

 
It's just that set.union isn't implemented for zero sets, which is an unfortunate and avoidable edge case.
 
Can someone visit 216.58.126.4:5000 and see if it's still up
 
5:15 PM
Not up.
 
you can use isup.me instead :P
 
doesn't work with raw IPs
 
but yeah, not up at all
 
that's weird, why did it randomly just crash ಠ_ಠ
 
also looks like it does work with IPs
although it may nobt work with the :5000 part
 
5:16 PM
no but that reported "Not Up" even when it was up
 
@Dennis set.union({1,2,3},set()) normally returns set([1, 2, 3]), the issue is that set.union needs at least one argument, which may or may not make sense depending on your POV
 
@EriktheOutgolfer well {} == dict(), not set()
 
fixed, in the interpreter I wrote it correctly
 
@AdmBorkBork Phew. I think it works well now.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Mathematically, that makes as much sense as sum([]) erroring instead of returning 0. The union of an empty collections of sets is the empty set.
 
5:25 PM
@Adám Looks good to me.
 
@Dennis yeah, since the empty set is the identity element for set union
however, for set intersection, there is no one identity element apart from the universe, but one may narrow it down to the domain of the other set
I like how they put stuff like the @ operator and @= augmented assignment in Python 3 while they have more serious stuff to fix
 
CodeNote question again: How should I name the constructor method? _construct, _main, _new, _ready or what?
what would be the best by readability and shortness?
 
@EriktheOutgolfer In my experience, if you go the more serious issues road, you wind up classifying your issues by severity instead of working on them.
 
well, maybe then queue the issues, then start working on the first issue immediately after the first ticket is received, and then, for subsequent issues, examine if any of them has any severity than the issue currently being worked on, and if it does, then switch your focus to the more severe issue, while keeping drafts of your changes for the issues you've been previously working on, and, when you finish fixing an issue, release an update (note: that may lead to the need of a.b.c.d versioning)
then, switch your focus to the most severe issue and start working again
 
5:42 PM
And what would to have them fix right now?
 
In your opinion, what is the most urgent Python issue right now?
 
don't know if it's the most urgent, but how you can't use sum without a base case is infuriating
you can functools.reduce without a base case, why can't you also sum without a base case?
oh, and your base case can't be a str, it tells you to use str.join instead
 
That's by design, so I doubt they'd "fix" it.
 
another "issue" could be how you can't and=, or=, in=, not in=, etc.
or even stuff like
x = 1
x ~=
 
5:52 PM
Sorry, but those are all horrible. Python isn't a golfing language.
7
 
but that could be a bit stretchy
well, the main issue is that I might not want to have to reference a variable before assigning to it
something like that may be the reason I wouldn't want to reference the variable
but I don't think augmented assignment is always the solution to that problem
 
6:08 PM
> CodeNote question again: How should I name the constructor method? _construct, _main, _new, _ready or what?
> what would be the best by readability and shortness?
 
6:19 PM
I would like to ask a simpler version of this question, where you take A and B and decide if A can give to B. Would that be a dupe?
 
[what](question)?
 
Don't know how I managed to do that :)
 
@Dennis Also, &= and |= exit and works on booleans.
 
totally not the same though
 
is multiplying numbers in beatnik possible?
 
6:50 PM
Is there a language development room?
I thought there was one, but I can't find it
 
@DJMcMayhem It doesn't seem like it
 
I thought there was too
but can't find one
 
I could have sworn there was one
 
same! :P
 
For some reason, the room search feature stopped working for me
 
flamethrows the room
 
well, I don't seem to find one too
 
@DJMcMayhem btw your search isn't broken, you just didn't click "show frozen/deleted rooms" :P
 
How do you know?
 
6:53 PM
I clicked that, and when I searched absolutely nothing was filtered
Not that there were no results
 
what browser are you using?
 
weird, I had "development" in the search box and it didn't found the room, while it has "development" in name....
 
@EriktheOutgolfer inb4 cringe...
Opera
 
I used to use opera... in the old times
 
Opera, huh? there is the explanation
 
6:55 PM
@NieDzejkob it seems like it should be
 
I tried writing such a program, but even adding two numbers together while preserving the summands is hard
 
yeah I guess the hardest part is that you don't have arbitrary access to the stack
 
7:21 PM
Python CMP: exit() or sys.exit()?
 
Is there actually any difference?
 
sys.exit
 
@DJMcMayhem I honestly don't know
 
because it can be handled with try/except
 
361
A: Difference between exit() and sys.exit() in Python

mikuexit is a helper for the interactive shell - sys.exit is intended for use in programs. The site module (which is imported automatically during startup, except if the -S command-line option is given) adds several constants to the built-in namespace (e.g. exit). They are useful for the interact...

 
tl;dr exit() is for REPLs
 
8:01 PM
@Fatalize I suppose waiting a bit would be good, yes. You could post in the chat room, "Hey, I kinda want to solve this one, but I'll hold off if someone else wants to try it...?" And then if there's no takers in 24 hours, go ahead yourself. Another thing that might be neat is giving a play-by-play of your answer-writing process in the chat room (if you want to).
 
8:17 PM
now im browsing some my old markdown documents...

why did I golf tables...
oh wait, that's not golfing... that are tabs... .-. put into HTML...
 
8:32 PM
2
Q: Build a half cardinal cyclic quine

Dom HastingsA half cardinal cyclic quine is a cyclic quine with two states, one perpendicular to the other. Rules You can decide which rotation you want to implement, clockwise or counter-clockwise. Once rotated, any gaps in your code should be replaced with spaces to preserve the positioning. Your progr...

 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin EnderCompute the Kolakoski sequence code-golfnumbersequence This is a repost of an old challenge, in order to adjust the I/O requirements to our usual standards. This is done in an effort to allow more languages to participate in a challenge about this popular sequence. See this meta post for a d...

 
A random message just appeared in my terminal for seemingly no reason?
Message from syslogd@localhost at Feb 28 13:30:18 ...
 kernel:do_IRQ: 3.44 No irq handler for vector
 
some kernel error?
(not expert in linux)
nvwm
 
9:01 PM
@Pavel My mind immediately jumps to: is it similar to an IRQL driver issue?
 
@DestructibleLemon Would you mind if I edited your post nominating Brain-Flak for language of the month? I want to make it a little more detailed.
 
Ooh, I second that idea. Especially since it looks likely to win rn
 
@DJMcMayhem I'm really excited too because April is Brain-flaks birth month too, so it would be really cool if it were LOTM then.
 
2
Q: RGB to Xterm Color Converter

Beefster256-color Xterm-compatible terminals add 240 colors on top of the usual 16 system colors. Colors 16-231 use 6 levels (0, 95, 135, 175, 215, 255) of red, green, and blue, ordered lexicographically. Colors 232-255 are simply 24 levels of gray (8...238 by 10s). To get a better idea of what I'm talki...

 
@WheatWizard :O
I hadn't thought of that
 
9:19 PM
CMC: write a REPL for your language in that language.
 
0
Q: Tips for launching a language

jrtapsellHaving started writing my own golfing language, I noticed there is no tips page for launching a new language. Having seen how many languages have been made by this community, I wondered what advice the community has for launching a new golfing languages, and what pitfalls to avoid while doing so.

 
Anyone know how to make startup programs run earlier (Win10)?
 
What os?
 
@ConorO'Brien :/ Charcoal doesn't have async yet rip
@ConorO'Brien wait >_> how is this even possible for most golflangs
 
9:34 PM
@ASCII-only It's also not trivial in most non-golflangs
 
@ASCII-only any language with eval can do it handily :P
 
@ConorO'Brien 3 bytes, -r flag :P
 
@ASCII-only I suppose it requires a very simple language, or an "eval"
 
@ConorO'Brien oh yes
 
@ASCII-only write
 
9:34 PM
Forgot I had input prompts
 
@ASCII-only I guess you could register them as services, so they start before login.
 
@ConorO'Brien ?
@ConorO'Brien Hmm hang on, would Charcoal need to clear the canvas every time?
 
@ConorO'Brien ruby -pe 'eval$_'
 
@ASCII-only you tell me :P
 
@recursive Another thing I noticed is that it now works in Safari mobile. Can’t test on a Desktop, though
 
9:37 PM
ruby -e '`irb`'
 
<tens of thousands of lines of Clean that compiles into a REPL>
 
<flags because it is too long> :P
 
@Mr.Xcoder Thanks. I did release a new version 1.0.4 yesterday, but I don't know any reason why it would affect Safari support. Let me know if you happen to get a chance. Also, if it's still not working, could you check the js console for any errors? Thanks again.
 
@ConorO'Brien What exactly are the requirements here, though? Can there be (e.g.) one or two variable names that you can't use in the code you type at the repl, or it breaks the repl?
 
@recursive I will definitely let you know (maybe I’ll comment on the issue) tomorrow morning, when I have access to a computer.
 
9:44 PM
@ConorO'Brien >_> turns out Charcoal can't make a REPL even though it should be able to, more things to fix rip
 
@DLosc Read input, evaluate it, and print it. And do that until otherwise stopped, by error or by a command inputted, but never on account of the program.
 
@ConorO'Brien That excludes eval, then, unless there's a way to "eval in a separate execution context."
 
@ConorO'Brien So we can require that input be a complete valid proram in our language.
 
@DLosc I'm not sure what the problem is, nor your suggestion's basis
 
How about computing the Hafnian of a matrix as challenge?
 
9:47 PM
@Pavel it's a cmc so I left it intentionally vague :P do whatever that functions like a repl how about
 
@ASCII-only Who on earth would try that?
 
My plan was to read of an entire C# program (Class declaration and all) from input, save it in a file, compile and run it, print result, repeat.
 
Could be code golf or fastest code
Or both :)
 
@ConorO'Brien Say I use a variable x in my repl implementation. What happens if the repl user tries to set x? Typing in x=42 at the repl could crash the repl if (e.g.) x in the implementation is supposed to be a string.
 
@Zacharý Try what
 
9:49 PM
REPL in Charcoal.
 
It's bascially literally while (read) {eval; print; clear;}
 
TIL about C# script. Mono comes with a program called csharp that evalueates C# as if it was a scripting language. Try it online!
 
@DLosc ah, I see. by my last statement I meant that it should be theoretically infinite, e.g., not only running for 15 generations or something like that. that should be fine
unless if x is the only variable or something like that :P
 
Oh, okay.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Because that would change the type which is usually not intended behavior?
@Pavel O_o that's really nice
 
9:52 PM
@ASCII-only It's actually a wrapper for the REPL--even has implicit printing.
 
@ConorO'Brien In that case, Pip, 8 bytes: W#YqP Vy. Reads from stdin; quits on EOF or a blank line. Statements/expressions, including block statements such as loops, cannot be broken over multiple lines. Setting the y variable in user code actually doesn't break the repl, it just gets overwritten immediately.
 
@ASCII-only ... and fix all the other surplus separator bugs too :-P
 
@WheatWizard yes you can modify the brain-flak nomination and i made the answer community wiki because i didn't see why not
@WheatWizard wow very quick
 
Had it queued. :)
 
10:07 PM
oh
that's how that works
haha
 
@Neil They're not exactly bugs, it's just the deverbosifier doesn't know if it can remove them yet
 
there's a puzzle on puzzling.stackexchange i was gonna solve but then i kind of just didn't solve it...
 
@WheatWizard It might also be useful to include a list of the people to ping for help. (Obviously me and you, not sure who else)
 
Oh yeah. I should include the chat room too
 
Already did ;)
 
10:12 PM
You can probably ping 0' for help but they haven't been in the chat room in so long that they wont receive a nitification if they are pinged
 
Well, it's not that they won't be notified, it's that they actually will not be pinged
 
DJ does have the power to super ping though
 
I don't think that helps
 
Of course it does.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing True, but if you want brain-flak help, it's probably easier to ping me and ask a question than it is to ping me and ask me to ping 0" to ask them a question :P
 
10:16 PM
WW, can you ping DJ to tell him I agree? :P
 
Alternatively you could ping me and I could go walk over to 0' and ask them.
 
@WheatWizard I guess that means we both have a super ping in some way lol
 
170
Q: Increase reputation awarded for questions

Alex A.It has come to my attention that the amount of reputation awarded for questions can be adjusted on a per-site basis. For example, Stack Apps awards +10 reputation for question upvotes. As you probably already know, we currently award +5 reputation, as do most Stack Exchange sites, including Stack...

with our new mods, could this be something to consider again?
 
The ultimate eleven: knowing people irl.
@Riker This isn't up to the mods.
 
hm, was it already brought to the CMs attention?
(by the mods or not by the mods)
 
10:19 PM
Yes, it was.
 
Grace Note said outright that it wasn't going to happen
 
@tuskiomi According to Grace Note, our Stack Exchange community manager, this is unlikely to happen without a network-wide change, which seems similarly unlikely. — Alex A. Nov 10 '16 at 21:43
ah, missed that
 
@Mr.Xcoder Why is Indie there twice
 
Oops IDK, my bad
 
10:33 PM
@Mr.Xcoder Also no electro
 
Yeah I forgot electro
... Which I happen to like
 
lol
just go through wikipedia's list of genres
it most definitely exists
 
This is a list of music styles. Music can be described in terms of many genres and styles. Classifications are often arbitrary, and closely related forms often overlap. Larger genres and styles comprise more specific sub-categories. This list is split into four separate pages: List of styles of music: A–F List of styles of music: G–M List of styles of music: N–R List of styles of music: S–Z == See also == Genealogy of musical genres...
 
@Mr.Xcoder Classical not allowed?
 
@Adám What kind ol old geezer listens to classical :P
 
10:40 PM
I’ll have to re-make that poll at some point
 
@Pavel My rule of thumb is that the composer had to be dead by 1850 for me to enjoy it.
 
hehe
 
10:51 PM
when I make Integer + int return None >_>
 
cause not implemented yet
 
Why are those even different types
This isn't Java
 
@Pavel Because Integer is a custom arbitrary-precision type? (okay >_> it's basically just an int wrapper)
with some properties that have useful info, and in number-thing exponent form
 
Doesn't python already have arbitrary-precision integers
 
10:58 PM
Yes. But I need them to work nicely with arbitrary precision reals and rationals
and an easy way to restrict it to a certain precision
also make operations fast when precision is restricted
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

OCDkirbyLetter Grade Challenge (Java) Create a program that allows the user to input a number between 1 and 100, then grades that number based on standard US letter grades, printing the grade character as a result. Please use Java for this challenge, and like usual code golf challenges, the smallest ans...

 
@Pavel Hang on, never mind >_> it's because I convert all int to Integer anyway
 
@NewSandboxedPosts ._. why Java though?
 
11:13 PM
Good on him for using the sandbox though.
 
ngn
@Pavel in April I'll be able to finally see Boris Godunov performed live and I'm very excited :)
 
@Adám I first read that as 18:50 ^^
 
11:33 PM
@ngn The only Boris Godunov I know of was the Tsar of Russia during the 16th century.
 
Oh, I read "performed" as "perform" and thought there was a musician with that name that you were talking about out.
Yeah I know that opera
Never seen it though
 
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