The Nineteenth Byte

HyperNeutrino

02:00

Oh I thought f was asymptotic at the top and bottom to a horizontal lol

Destructible Lemon

@Pavel like the futurama character?

Pavel

Not at all like the futurma character.

feersum

@WheatWizard's starred post has an amazing amount of syntactic ambiguity.

Does the glove or the hand have a face?

Destructible Lemon

@feersum this is why we need lojban

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino If you want, you can try to find an f(x) for that graph, which actually sounds intresting.

feersum

02:02

Is the glove or the face looking at the monitors?

Destructible Lemon

@feersum actually can you tell from the image?

HyperNeutrino

neither, and both

@Pavel huh I'll try

feersum

Is it the hand, the glove, the face, or the monitors saying something, and how much is it saying?

ATaco

This horrifying module is what I'm using to handle STDIN.

HyperNeutrino

CMC: Make a function that's vertically asymptotic at x=0 and horizontally asymptotic at y=1 and y=-1, and not asymptotic anywhere else (if that's even possible)

Destructible Lemon

02:04

tbh i'm a little bit skeptical of the lojban definition poster but i like this one

> besto - to put on metaphorical asbestos suit to protect oneself against complaints about Lojban language [from #Lojban dictionary]

feersum

A suit made of asbestos?

Destructible Lemon

you can use asbestos like lead and stuff right?

Pavel

@ATaco You could also use not js

ATaco

Lojban is definitely a golf language, it even has useless builtins.

feersum

Yes if you mean you can easily poison yourself with either of them.

Pavel

02:05

That might have been smart.

ATaco

Eh, what's done is done.

HyperNeutrino

asbestos is carcinogenic, no?

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco not really, it has a bunch of root words you can use to make new words as you need

in a way, it's like lisp

@HyperNeutrino yeah actually i can't find records of any asbestos suits being used at all literally

HyperNeutrino

good

Destructible Lemon

but at the same time it makes it easier to recognise it as a metaphor, doesn't it?

HyperNeutrino

02:08

sure

Destructible Lemon

> lulrima - verbal clothes [from #Lojban dictionary]

HyperNeutrino

lol

Destructible Lemon

not really sure what that one is supposed to mean

> mofmeizi - a game of tungsten [from #Lojban dictionary]

I think we need a better translator :P

HyperNeutrino

yeah lol

Destructible Lemon

then again it might take a while to explain some of the words

ASCII-only

02:11

@HyperNeutrino desmos.com/calculator/ml6hheq2rw

HyperNeutrino

nice 10/10

not what I had in mind but works nonetheless

new CMC

actually what I had in mind doesn't even fit my own description lol

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino :|

HyperNeutrino

CMC: Make a function that is vertical at x=0 and horizontally asymptotic at y=1 as x approaches inf and at y=-1 as x approaches -inf

Pavel

@Adám C#: n=>System.Runtime.InteropServices.Marshal.SizeOf(n)

HyperNeutrino

whoa that is verbose

Pavel

02:14

(Fails horribly on many types, but fortunatly works on numbers)

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino as in either nothing on other side or both sides tend to inf?

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino The builtin sizeof operator expects a type, not an object reference/value

e.g. sizeof(int)

HyperNeutrino

@ASCII-only like it's fully continuous

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino ???

oh

HyperNeutrino

@Pavel that's strange; I'd expect typeof to give the type of an object lol

Pavel

02:15

I meant sizeof

HyperNeutrino

oh

lol

Pavel

Unfortunatly sizeof(typeof(4)) doesn't work.

HyperNeutrino

huh odd

Pavel

I think sizeof is resolved at compile-time

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino fixed, idk if you can see update, try refresh if not

HyperNeutrino

02:17

no you have to reshare desmos

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino desmos.com/calculator/zosknwchbs

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino Anyway, see the InteropServices bit? That's actually the .NET numeric type being marshalled to a C++ type, and then calling the C++ sizeof.

HyperNeutrino

:| that doesn't quite work because I said it should approach y=-1 as x->-inf but this does ->y=-1|x->+inf

Pavel

@ASCII-only No no, it goes left at the bottom. See this graph: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/…

ASCII-only

:| oops

feersum

02:18

You don't "call" sizeof.

Pavel

@feersum It's complicated ok

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino desmos.com/calculator/jzew4km6oz

Pavel

@ASCII-only not vertical at 0

HyperNeutrino

that's not vertical at 0

(ninja'd)

ASCII-only

:| oh yeah

HyperNeutrino

02:19

lol this isn't that easy I can't think of how to start with this lol

Conor O'Brien

@feersum it's not that bad :/

Pavel

I'm trying to think of it too.

Ey, Wheat Wizard is here. I think he's good at math.

Wheat Wizard

Have I been summoned?

Pavel

@WheatWizard chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/40703063#40703063 and also see upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/…

Wheat Wizard

@Pavel Inverse tangent?

ATaco

02:21

Oh, the next OEIS only has n(1) througn n(12) solved so far... Hardcoding time..?

ASCII-only

@WheatWizard Not vertical at x=0

user202729

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(abs(y)%2F(abs(y)%2B1))*y%2Fabs(y)

HyperNeutrino

no you need first 1000 terms or finite

ASCII-only

@ATaco How if you only have 12...

@user202729 abs is cheating

Destructible Lemon

@user202729 pointy

ATaco

02:22

oeis.org/A000512

Correction, we have up to n=14.

Wheat Wizard

@ASCII-only $\frac{2}{\pi}\arctan(x)+\frac{1}{x}$

Pavel

@WheatWizard Do you have a W|A link for that? My mathjax is off rn

Conor O'Brien

arctau*arctan(x)+1/x

ATaco

ASCII-only

I guess that works

Wheat Wizard

02:24

ok have to go

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien :| that's 4 * arctau

Conor O'Brien

see edit :P

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino see above

HyperNeutrino

huh cool lemme inspect that

ATaco

Also, wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(sqrt(y%5E2)%2F(sqrt(y%5E2)%2B1))

ASCII-only

02:24

@ConorO'Brien but isn't it 4(1/2 pi)

ATaco

If abs is cheating, define abs :P

Downgoat

Speaking of math @ASCII-only do we want to do like 4.atan and avoid math namespace?

HyperNeutrino

no that's not continuous

ASCII-only

@Downgoat hmm

maybe

Pavel

@WheatWizard @ATaco Please see reference image: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/…

Conor O'Brien

02:25

@Downgoat no, that wouldn't work nicely for functions like "hypot" and would pollute global scope with math variables like E and PI

ATaco

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not a math person.

Conor O'Brien

methods should be for functions where it makes sense to have a primary argument, otherwise its weird, unintuitive, and arbitrary. IMO.

ATaco

But that looks a lot like x=y^3 desmos.com/calculator/qtkzxawab2

Downgoat

@ASCII-only because definetly not global because global is evil but then Math namespace is yucky and verbose and is adds a lot of extra code making it harder to scan expressions

Pavel

@ATaco That doesn't have horizontal tangent lines

Downgoat

02:26

But then if we do on properties then idk how we will do constants

Pavel

The bottom and top of the graph are horizontal tangents

ATaco

I'm just saying what it looks like.

Downgoat

:O idea: .pi * 2

Destructible Lemon

math.stackexchange will like this?

@Downgoat ?

Pavel

@DestructibleLemon Ehh, it's more of a puzzle than a valid question.

Downgoat

02:27

For VSL

Destructible Lemon

oh ok

ATaco

In other news, I finally got my first green tick!

ASCII-only

@Downgoat :| wat.

HyperNeutrino

nice

ATaco

It only took 5k rep.

HyperNeutrino

02:29

lol

Destructible Lemon

did i ever get one?

how do i check?

Riker

user:me is:a isaccepted:yes

fixed :p

Downgoat

@ASCII-only ok what parse cause confusion. is multiplication

ASCII-only

@Downgoat .pi

why.

also how.

Riker

@ASCII-only did you just seriously question the goat and his ability to break tech?

Downgoat

02:34

@ASCII-only yeah like Color.red is can be replace with .red so Double.pi can become .pi

Riker

be wary, many men have lost their sanity from that

see: quartata /s

Pavel

@Downgoat Wat. But what if two things define red.

Then what does .red evaluate too.

Downgoat

@Pavel VSL is statically typed

so you cant have variable be multiple type

ATaco

My accepted answer is nearly a year old

Conor O'Brien

does it have unions?

Pavel

02:36

oic how it works

ASCII-only

@Downgoat yes. but how to do var foo = .pi * 2

@HyperNeutrino $x=y^2\tan\frac{\pi}{2}y$ kinda works :P

user202729

@HyperNeutrino this = what?

Downgoat

@ASCII-only it work with type deduct because 2 can be double and if .pi is on double it’ll assume double

we use global constraint resolution so works across whole program

Pavel

@ASCII-only W|A or Desmos links are preferable to mathjax, by which I mean I don't have mathjax.

Downgoat

@ConorO'Brien II and CI probably

Pavel

02:38

eh?

Downgoat

those would probably be excluded from deduction though due to exponential complexity increase

@Pavel Interface/Interface Class/Interface

Conor O'Brien

CMC: implement xxd like this

ATaco

ono funky still doesn't have number to hexidecimal

ASCII-only

:|

too bad charcoal doesn't have custom xxd output :P

Pavel

@ASCII-only You could take regular xxd and format it maybe

Conor O'Brien

02:44

no use of actual xxd

ASCII-only

:O can bash use charcoal xxd then

user202729

Can anyone shorten this? tio.run/##y0rNyan8///kAv@kR41bHjXMeLi7@/AMD@///w2NjB2dnAE

Conor O'Brien

"charcoal xxd"?

user202729

ṃ doesn't work.

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien this also nvm i need to make it not print other things first

Conor O'Brien

02:49

revised: "implement xxd"

ASCII-only

CMP: Unicode character for base conversion?

also base to string conversion

Conor O'Brien

b

and s

ASCII-only

*non-ASCII Unicode

also >_> do you really expect plain letters to still be available

Conor O'Brien

yes

ATaco

ß and §

Conor O'Brien

02:52

how about ↜ and ↝

Eric Tressler

-

ASCII-only

@ATaco latter is taken

@ConorO'Brien :| not very mnemonic-y

ATaco

ṣ

ASCII-only

accented letters are ok i guess but still not very easy to remember

Destructible Lemon

03:14

@ASCII-only how about one of those half block ones that looks like a base

ASCII-only

@DestructibleLemon :| what

Destructible Lemon

like how there is a unicode full block, you have quarter blocks and such

▂

it looks like a base

which is a pun

ASCII-only

:|

then what about the string version...

Eric Tressler

what about a bass clef

Destructible Lemon

that might be better actually

ASCII-only

03:20

@EricTressler Not in the Unicode BMP :/

Destructible Lemon

@ASCII-only wtf

Eric Tressler

my browser can't render that character, though

I don't really know which unicode codepages are supported where

🐟

that might be a bass; you never know

ASCII-only

@EricTressler well characters outside BMP break IDLE

Eric Tressler

-

@ASCII-only I don't know what either of those acronyms mean

Destructible Lemon

@ASCII-only have you used the electric arrow yet? I don't think it would be good for base conversion but you should probably use it for something

ASCII-only

03:25

@EricTressler basic multilingual plane (\u10000 and up, IDLE is Python IDE)

@DestructibleLemon ... I don't have an infinite codepage

Destructible Lemon

? what do you mean?

i just think it's a good character

here it is: ⌁

it's a bit small in this font though

ASCII-only

@DestructibleLemon i mean i'm running out of codepage space... I can't just add a character just because you say so

Destructible Lemon

I was just providing an example of a good character though

Eric Tressler

基 (Unicode Han Character 'foundation, base' (U+57FA)), 串 (Unicode Han Character 'string; relatives; conspire' (U+4E32))

they are also not in BMP

I like the glyph for string, though

ASCII-only

@EricTressler :|

@EricTressler :/ i meant number -> string base conversion

Eric Tressler

03:37

㎱

ASCII-only

O_o

Destructible Lemon

03:51

do double glyphs make you say "ﬀs"?

ASCII-only

not really

oh btw forgot to say but i'd need na or nl or nb ligature/double glyph @EricTressler

feersum

Are you trying to make it deliberately annoying?

ASCII-only

Not really

But I'm out of ideas

feersum

What could be more annoying than a character that looks like 2 ascii chars?

ATaco

04:10

œ

(I am of the personal believe the the Interrobang is objectively the worst Unicode character)

feersum

04:22

Well those two also look like two ascii chars, albeit overlapping ones.

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco uh no

@ASCII-only btw I'm not sure if you realised that the ff there is actually a single character for some reason again

HyperNeutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing Congrats on 4k rep!

@DestructibleLemon yo sneaky +1 :P

ATaco

‼ is a nice two-in-one character.

Destructible Lemon

04:39

it's a chess character

ASCII-only

@DestructibleLemon do triple glyphs make you say "*ﬃ[redacted]"

Destructible Lemon

no

HyperNeutrino

why

Destructible Lemon

because how do you say ﬃ

or what does it mean

ASCII-only

@DestructibleLemon this

HyperNeutrino

04:44

I don't have much of an aﬃnity for multi glyphs (idk if context works there)

ATaco

I horrifyingly implemented ARBLE style equations in Funky.

ASCII-only

:\

@ATaco doesn't work for longer variable names :| you need a way to catch nonexistent variables instead

ATaco

A method exists, but it's, uh, unrelyable.

ATaco

05:15

@ASCII-only There a version which uses any length variable names.

And for some ungodly reasons it errors essentially whever a constant is passed to it.

ASCII-only

05:41

:| still need number->base and number->base string conversion symbols

Adám

@ASCII-only APL uses ⊥ which looks like a base. Related symbols are ⊤⍎⍕

ASCII-only

not that obvious, but i guess i don't really have a choice

ATaco

Alternatively you could use the flat symbol.

♭

ASCII-only

:O good(ish) idea

Adám

@ASCII-only ⚾ (BASEball)

Pavel

05:51

i r8 8/8

ASCII-only

@Adám :|

Adám

@ASCII-only ↨ To/From Base

ASCII-only

:| I'd still need one for base-string

Adám

@ASCII-only 🏀

@ASCII-only Don't you need four? Base-to-Number, Number-to-Base, Base-to-String, String-to-Base?

ASCII-only

nah

overload selected based on whether left is array or number

if right is array then arguments are switched around

Adám

05:57

Maybe ⍛ base, ⍘ base-to-string.

@ASCII-only If you go with ⊥ for base, you can also use ⍊ for base-to-string.

@ASCII-only Gotta go, but I think ↨ To/From Base and ⍘ Base-String are pretty good.

Adám

06:24

Unicode ROFL: 🤣

user202729

06:44

@HyperNeutrino So what happened? (you can explain tomorrow if you want)

HyperNeutrino

well pretty much I was studying for a test and doing my history assignment and then somehow I completely forgot about my other history assignment...

so I realized at like 12 I was like "oh crap I forgot to finish that" so I got my chromebook and finished it

and then I was like "ooh challenge" so I spent like 5-10 minutes to do that challenge

and now I intend to sleep because I will be very much so dead tomorrow morning :P

(oh well, not the first time running on <6h sleep, but I try to avoid it)

anyway I'm going to go sleep now lol it's almost 3 and I have to get up at 7 o/

ASCII-only

07:03

@HyperNeutrino :|

New Main Posts

08:17

0

Q: Optimizing `yes` command in JAVA

One of Unix core commands is yes which simply prints infinity number of letters y. I read a blog post (https://matthias-endler.de/2017/yes/) how people optimize it to output y with speed of 10G/s. I tried to achieve similar speed with Java but I stopped at 70M/s. My code is: public class yes ...

New Sandboxed Posts

11:14

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Output all permutations of a vector The challenge is simple: Output all unique permutations of a list. You may assume you can run the program indefinitely, but you may not assume that you have a larger memory than you have. That means, if you run your program long enough, then all permutations ...

caird coinheringaahing

12:22

@HyperNeutrino Thanks!

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yup congrats caird! \o/

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Thanks

> share edit delete flag

New shiny button to play with :P

Anonymous

Oh, you just unlocked delete privs?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mego Yeah

Anonymous

Enjoy seeing thousands of deleted Sandbox posts

caird coinheringaahing

12:32

@Mego Already got that privilege. That's 2K IIRC

Anonymous

Oh

Anonymous

I don't remember the order of the privs anymore :P

caird coinheringaahing

#highrepproblems :P

Erik the Outgolfer

12:47

@Mego yes 2k is see deleted posts and delete closed for more than 48h questions

also

you can bookmark this if you want to remember the order ;p

Anonymous

13:02

I need to know the order and reqs for privs maybe once every few months - not worth bookmarking :P

Erik the Outgolfer

who said you have to use the bookmark

put it somewhere where it's not usually a nuisance

caird coinheringaahing

ಠ_ಠ 4k doesn't change anything when we get our design

dzaima

@EriktheOutgolfer It's accessible from achievements -> privileges though :p

Erik the Outgolfer

that's hidden :p

user202729

CMM: Does an answer to a code-golf challenge for which the writing of the solution itself is already challenging, but is not very well-golfed (e.g., leave extraneous whitespace) be considered serious contender?

Erik the Outgolfer

13:05

no

Fatalize

Yes and no

user202729

Even when there is no other answers (so it is the shortest)?

Fatalize

If it's not well-golfed because it's hard to golf it's fine

Erik the Outgolfer

if the objective is to golf the code then there should have been at least some attempt to golf the code

Fatalize

If it's not well golfed because you're lazy it's not

user202729

13:06

Well, you are certainly not lazy, it takes a lot of effort to even write the code.

Fatalize

(imo a code golf challenge where writing a solution with no golfing is already too difficult is not a good challenge)

user202729

codegolf.stackexchange.com/unanswered

Erik the Outgolfer

for example obvious whitespaces and other trivial golfs should be done anyways

@user202729 which one?

user202729

All of those which is tagged [code-golf].

Erik the Outgolfer

are you referring to a posted answer?

Anonymous

13:10

12

A: Clarifying "serious contender" in the help center

A serious contender is a submission which makes a serious effort towards optimizing the submission's score within the chosen language(s) and other choices (such as algorithm choice or optional restrictions/bonuses taken). This is somewhat subjective, in that the best answer in my opinion is "you...

user202729

No, I am referring to the questions (reply to :40710712 )

Anonymous

Even if it takes a lot of effort to write the code, only the effort taken to optimize the code for the winning criteria matters when considering whether or not it is a serious contender.

caird coinheringaahing

I read through this, and felt sorry for anyone who tries it :P

Anonymous

Consider this: would a complex, enterprise-designed piece of software with meaningful variable names, plenty of useful comments, and a full suite unit tests be a serious contender for code golf?

J. Salle

This one looks easy enough to implement in a non-golf lang, but it's really oversimplified. MtG combat is extremely complex.

caird coinheringaahing

13:19

Anyone (currently) here know MATL?

dzaima

I really want to make a 2D pattern compressor for SOGL but I don't even know where to start.. making it would be pretty much making a miniature language by itself

New Main Posts

13:39

0

Q: Visualize Inclusion-Exclusion

Inclusion-Exclusion lets you calculate the sizes of some unions and intersections between sets knowing some of the other values. I won't explain it exactly, but your challenge is to visualize inclusion-exclusion on a Venn Diagram. Because I'm nice, you'll be using rectangles, not circles. You w...

code-golf ascii-art

HyperNeutrino

@NewMainPosts That was fast, thanks!

lol chromebooks and gmail are so slow it took me 2 minutes to load my inbox

J. Salle

Gmail's optimization is a joke

And a bad one at that, too.

HyperNeutrino

I don't even know why they gave us a Chromebook... it's just preventing my parents from letting me bring my real computer to school (real as in something that actually works)

user202729

Chromebook is Turing-complete, so it is certainly a computer. (at least that's true in PPCG)

"they" here means your school?

J. Salle

Never used a Chromebook, is it that bad?

HyperNeutrino

13:43

yes

Dennis

They're great once you install Linux on them.

3

J. Salle

Or are there many hardware configurations and you got a bad one?

HyperNeutrino

@J.Salle chromebooks are not too bad for internet access but chrome OS is trash

one of the few major operating systems I know that doesn't support JVM

J. Salle

Is format + Ubuntu 16.04 an option?

HyperNeutrino

yes, certainly a good option.

J. Salle

13:45

Or the latest debian distro, whatever floats your boat

HyperNeutrino

I can't do that though lol because it's not technically 100% my property

J. Salle

You could ask for permission, I guess? How tech-savvy is your school?

user202729

You can reinstall Chrome OS when you return the computer, I think.

J. Salle

@user202729 that's also a good point.

HyperNeutrino

I mean the main problem with installing Linux is then they don't have control over the computer anymore.

My version of Chrome OS is restricted, monitored, and probably remotely accessible, though they probably don't monitor it because that's a privacy infringement and that's a big thing here :P

user202729

13:47

So you have to ask for permission.

HyperNeutrino

yeah

and 101% sure they'd say no lol

I mean it's fairly convenient because it weighs like 40% my laptop

but that's the only thing good about it lol

user202729

They have monitor program on the computer?

HyperNeutrino

not exactly

but everything I do is probably logged somewhere

I mean there's a hardware switch that prevents me from booting into developer mode and resetting the computer or formatting, which I'd have to remove physically to do anything

not worth the trouble lol

J. Salle

Dual-boot a Kali distro, and you can brick/uninstall it whenevr you feel like

HyperNeutrino

not sure that's possible

though I could try to boot linux out of a USB, actually

you know I might try that sometime lol

J. Salle

13:49

Indeed

Then you can use gparted to make a big swap partition of the HD

HyperNeutrino

cool

lol I just realized that the PPCG prime challenge has effectively been hammered back and forth this entire time

although jenny's vote would've reopened with or without the hammer it was still a hammer technically :P

(I wonder; who is the highest rep user without a code-golf hammer?)

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Howard?

HyperNeutrino

hm cool

user202729

codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/badges/89/code-golf?userid=1490

caird coinheringaahing

Nope, Howard has it :(

ninja'd

Ok, found it. Stewie has the most rep, but doesn't have a gold code-golf badge

HyperNeutrino

13:56

cool

user202729

How can I delete the box anyway?

caird coinheringaahing

@user202729 Edit it

HyperNeutrino

@user202729 well I have more rep than that and I don't have gold code-golf so no that's incorrect :P

J. Salle

That dude had 3 Great Answer badges

Holy cow that's a lot

caird coinheringaahing

@J.Salle Joe Z. has 3 Stellar Questions, 5 Famous Questions and 4 Great Questions :P

user202729

13:57

@HyperNeutrino Can you change this to code-challenge? I think it is already too challenging to just write a code, but if it is code-golf then the answerers must golf it and thus they lose the motivation to answer. I'm going to answer some unanswered challenges, anyway.

HyperNeutrino

What do you suggest I make the winning criterion then?

J. Salle

@cairdcoinheringaahing that is also insane hahahahah

user202729

I forgot about that issue, unfortunately.

Anonymous

@J.Salle Probably not. Most school-issued laptops have the BIOS locked down, so you'd need to short the CMOS battery in order to even boot from anything other than the hard drive.

Adám

CMC kolmogorov-complexity: ["┌┐","└┘"]

HyperNeutrino

13:59

oh yeah I recall reading that somewhere

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