The Nineteenth Byte

Mr. Xcoder

2:00 PM

(easy, just learning Osabie)

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder tbh I'm actually surprised Charcoal turned out so well

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only :)

ASCII-only

@wizzwizz4 yeah Google have been using neural networks for translation for a while now

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only If I were to learn Charcoal, should I learn the verbose version or the golfy one?\

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder Both?

Mr. Xcoder

2:04 PM

@ASCII-only Which one should I try first?

wizzwizz4

@ASCII-only It looks like they've stopped training them.

ASCII-only

Verbose is easier to understand and type

Mr. Xcoder

Ok

Jordan

Anyone here use Angular and doesn't mind me asking them a quick question?

ASCII-only

@wizzwizz4 nah they just have so much data the amount of new data they get doesn't improve them by that much

Mr. Xcoder

2:05 PM

Definitely not me

Erik the Outgolfer

@wizzwizz4 they offer a service that lets you suggest a better translation, which is better than microsoft's

also they have a translation game that help them improve

Jordan

I have over 100 points in translations!

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder but you should know at least a bit of goofy mode to recognise when you need to drop a separator in verbose mode, or when it's not being golfed properly

@wizzwizz4 I mean seriously Google is amazing but that doesn't mean they can procure data out of nowhere

Mr. Xcoder

Someone give me a CMC ~~:((((~~

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder range reverse sum

Mr. Xcoder

2:08 PM

@ASCII-only The main challenge?

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder :P

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only Sure, thanks :)

ASCII-only

> goofy mode

Why mobile why

Mr. Xcoder

I solved that in 4 bytes, thanks :)

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder you can solve it in 3

Mr. Xcoder

2:13 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer Really?

Erik the Outgolfer

well, your code rn is L€RO, but you can shorten it

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Does 05Ab1E automatically convert ints to strings and string to int?

most of the time

So €R

what did you have?

2:14 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer L€RO

> í 13 = pop a push [reversed Q for Q in a] (short for €R)

Is this it?

Erik the Outgolfer

yes

Mr. Xcoder

I just searched for €R :3

@EriktheOutgolfer So it's LíO?

Erik the Outgolfer

yep that's the one over main too

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer >_> Lemme guess, Adnan?

Erik the Outgolfer

of course

Mr. Xcoder

2:16 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer DO you know CJam?

Erik the Outgolfer

it's not a matter of "knowing" I just know the stack-based approach used by stack-based languages and then it's easy to search on docs

Business Cat

I know it

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Oh, I didn't know CJam was stack based

@BusinessCat Do you want to test Gaia a bit?

Erik the Outgolfer

it's his language

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I know. I only ask if they want to compare the byte-counts of a CMC to 05AB1E

Business Cat

2:21 PM

I'll probably lose in a lot of cases since 05AB1E has a lot more built-ins as of now, but I have done comparably to it a lot

Which CMC?

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat You might have won, because I was the one that would have written the code in 05Ab1E :D

@BusinessCat None yet

I wished you would have come up with one :P

Business Cat

Hmmmm

I'm no good at coming up with challenges

Mr. Xcoder

Ok then

I see you have no ~~questions~~ challenges on Main either

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder me too :P

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only I have ~30 :D

And > 120 answers

Your answer-question ratio is ∞

ASCII-only

2:29 PM

CMC: Print 8 asterisks in all 8 directions

Erik the Outgolfer

huh?

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only huh?

Like a rectangle?

I got it

@ASCII-only That's made for charcoal!

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only charcoal, 5 bytes: Ｐ*×*⁸

that's what you were waiting for right?

ASCII-only

Yeah :P

Also partly wondering if 05ab1e's canvas can do that well yet

Mr. Xcoder

Program
└Ｐ: Multiprint
 ├Multidirectional
 │└*
 └×: Product
  ├'*': String '*'
  └8: Number 8

Whmmm

ASCII-only

2:32 PM

@Mr.Xcoder yeah what about it

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only Struggling to understand it

ASCII-only

Multiprint means print without moving the cursor

Asterisk means every direction

Mr. Xcoder

Got it

@ASCII-only 5 bytes in canvas mode osabie is just for one line: tio.run/##MzBNTDJM/f/fQl3L@Nzs//8B

ASCII-only

Oh also there's Charcoaltutor for some basics, probably needs way nor explanation though

And I don't think I even cover ASCII art commands lol

Business Cat

See 05AB1E has that silly Λ I don't have anything like that :P

Mr. Xcoder

2:36 PM

@BusinessCat Haha

ASCII-only

After I finish messing with more compression I'll probably work on Charcoaltutor then the wiki I guess?

Business Cat

Took me 28 bytes which is pretty horrible

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat In gaia?

Business Cat

Yes

But I'm planning to add stuff which I know would make it much shorter

Mr. Xcoder

Gettin' closer: tio.run/##MzBNTDJM/f/f0Exdy9D43Oz//wE

ASCII-only

2:38 PM

The design process for Charcoal was basically selecting challenges, writing imaginary competitive solutions and then making them work

Mr. Xcoder

Ouch

~~It's so awesome~~ Freakin' awesome

@ASCII-only Can you solve something in Charcoal?

Print this:

                              *
                             **
                            * *
                           *  *
                          *   *
                         *    *
                        *     *
                       *      *
                      *       *
                     *        *
                    *         *
                   *          *
                  *           *
                 *            *
                *             *
*              *              *

totallyhuman

...interesting

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman Believe it or not, 9 bytes in osabie

totallyhuman

doubt it's really hard though

@Mr.Xcoder nice

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman It's not like I know what I am doing. Just that canvas mode is buggy

wizzwizz4

2:44 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer At one point, people used that to make "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" translate into "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" in about five different languages.

totallyhuman

down by a bunch, pen down, south-east a bunch, north-west a bunch, north a bunch, south-west a bunch

wizzwizz4

I remember that Mandarin was one.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder 16'*1457Λ

totallyhuman

replace a bunch with 16

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Nice, but not identical.

Mine was 16'*3105Λ

Erik the Outgolfer

2:46 PM

that's the reverse

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer ha?

Erik the Outgolfer

like, starting from the other side

mine starts from the center

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Ok, but the output is identical

Erik the Outgolfer

btw that uses base 8 right?

Cows quack

@fergusq When I run bufferedExec (or exec for that matter) in Röda, the program is paused until I enter in a line of text in STDIN. Is that intended?

Mr. Xcoder

2:48 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer I have no idea. It craches if the number ends in 8 or 9, so I guess you're right

@EriktheOutgolfer LOOOL

Erik the Outgolfer

basically there are 8 directions

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer would you mind doing it in Charcoal with PolygonHollow(multidirectional, length, char)? On mobile do not very convenient

Erik the Outgolfer

of course polygonhollow is the solution to that

Mr. Xcoder

Ok, now I think golfing languages have gone way too far.

Erik the Outgolfer

that's called evolution

ASCII-only

2:50 PM

@Mr.Xcoder not yet they haven't :P

Mr. Xcoder

Too much evolution for me :0

Erik the Outgolfer

also there's no such thing as "too far" when golfing

ASCII-only

Charcoal still has no dictionary compression

wizzwizz4

@EriktheOutgolfer Apart from MetaGolfScript.

Erik the Outgolfer

that's a loophole because it's utterly boring

ASCII-only

2:51 PM

@wizzwizz4 that's not too far, that's just moving code to language name lol

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only 9 bytes: ＧＨ↗↓↙↖¹⁶*

Mr. Xcoder

@wizzwizz4 What's that?

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer yay we tie with 05ab1e

wizzwizz4

@Mr.Xcoder Take a GolfScript program.

Base-convert it to Base 10.

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only trying to find a multidirectional

so that it gets to 8 or something

wizzwizz4

2:53 PM

MetaGolfScript-nnnn, 0 bytes.

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder GolfScript encoded as decimal number in language

Erik the Outgolfer

s/CJam/GolfScript

Mr. Xcoder

I am still confused

wizzwizz4

@Mr.Xcoder Hello, World:

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer greater than for the last two maybe?

wizzwizz4

2:54 PM

MetaGolfScript-209180605381204854470575573749277224, 0 bytes.

Mr. Xcoder

@wizzwizz4 Aha, got it.

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only no

oh wait it works

yay charcoal beat 05ab1e

ＧＨ↗↓>¹⁶*

8 bytes

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Or maybe Adnan can do better?

Now do it in Jelly :P

Erik the Outgolfer

oh no

Mr. Xcoder

Hahaha, that would be obfuscated code-trolling

:)))

ASCII-only

2:57 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer Hey look the last four characters make a headless sardine with only a backbone

Or maybe a headless eel

Erik the Outgolfer

that's how it ended up!

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only It looks like a sad jelly program to me

@EriktheOutgolfer Lol, ascii-art code that solves an ascii-art challenge

Erik the Outgolfer

code deserves to be artistic too!

totallyhuman

32

Q: Tips for golfing in The Shakespeare Programming Language

What general tips do you have for golfing in The Shakespeare Programming Language? I'm looking for ideas which can be applied to code-golf problems and which are also at least somewhat specific to SPL (e.g. "remove comments" is not an answer). Please post one tip per answer.

lol

Mr. Xcoder

Too sad Charcoal's code page does not use ASCII-only characters

Business Cat

3:00 PM

Got mine down to 22 bytes which still isn't great

ASCII-only

oh no poor eel

@BusinessCat Hey look Charcoal jelly

Erik the Outgolfer

same

@ASCII-only hey look

neither charcoal nor jelly has that many

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat Lol, look what your code produces in Charcoal :p

Business Cat

@EriktheOutgolfer And I plan to add more

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder umm, wrong reply or something?

Mr. Xcoder

3:03 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer Yep, sorry

Erik the Outgolfer

@BusinessCat ok so the language to use for dates is ~~pyke~~ gaia

Business Cat

I haven't even used the whole alphabet worth of date/time yet

Yes, I'm going to have a lot of random date/time stuff

Like this one "Given year, return list of days of the week for the 1st of each month"

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat time-manipulation?

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer holy

wizzwizz4

I've worked out what was taking up all that space.

Business Cat

3:05 PM

Not going overboard, there's no date type

wizzwizz4

The Debian install ISOs I downloaded when I had high hopes for my laptop.

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder looks like the rest of it parse errors

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat Does gaia get input from CLA or STDIN?

Erik the Outgolfer

@BusinessCat nothing's overboard

Business Cat

@Mr.Xcoder STDIN

I don't even have a way to get arguments yet

ASCII-only

3:08 PM

I have decided to add a date specific golflang as a string alphabet/compression method

Eventually

I should probably finish the rest of Charcoal first

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat 1 1+ for addition?

Business Cat

Yep

The input works much like 05AB1E

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat How can I non-integer divide two numbers?

Business Cat

÷

Mr. Xcoder

9 4÷?

like^

Business Cat

3:10 PM

Yes.

ASCII-only

What about integer divide

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only That's /

fergusq

@Cowsquack Yes, it is intended (or at least I don't know how to avoid it). You should prepend every call to exec commands with {}| unless you want them to read input.

Mr. Xcoder

Gaia seems cool, maybe (?) I'll learn it

Business Cat

Word of warning. I'm an evil person. - is for negative numbers and ⁻ is subtraction

Mr. Xcoder

3:12 PM

@BusinessCat Why couldn't you use ⁻ for negatives and the obvious sign for...

Business Cat

It should be the other way around ala APL but not changing it now

Erik the Outgolfer

@BusinessCat that's what jelly, brachylog, apl and j do too

Dennis

Not quite. APL and J use - for subtraction.

Mr. Xcoder

Jelly uses _ for subtraction and - for negatives?

Dennis

Yes.

ASCII-only

3:14 PM

@BusinessCat aww inspired by SOGL not Charcoal :P

What does SOGL specialize in/how does it work?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis I mean, different negative literal minus from subtraction

Mr. Xcoder

I am (slowly) learning Jelly and I realised it's too great :)

@ASCII-only Ascii-art

and string-manipulation

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only competitor of charcoal

Business Cat

It's... very vaguely inspired by SOGL

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer yeah I know that :P

Business Cat

3:15 PM

Mostly just CJam and Jelly

totallyhuman

@EriktheOutgolfer "you must eliminate it"

ASCII-only

Seems very compression based

Erik the Outgolfer

yeah sogl is very compression-based

Business Cat

I don't know much about SOGL but iirc you can define custom compressions and whatnot

ASCII-only

Woah what

Mr. Xcoder

3:16 PM

Does anyone except for dzaima know sogl?

ASCII-only

Link to relevant docs?

Erik the Outgolfer

sogl is compression on compression and compression over another compression etc

@ASCII-only if you call it docs

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder idk, I should learn but too busy

@EriktheOutgolfer :O how does it do logic then

Mr. Xcoder

@ASCII-only You shouldn't, if you have Charcoal :0

Erik the Outgolfer

charcoal sometimes gets beaten by sogl

New Meta Posts

3:17 PM

1

Q: Are modifications to existing languages allowed as submissions?

Say I have a language I'd love to use (like JavaScript for example), but there are tons of little pieces of functionality I'd love to modify built-ins with, like .peek() on arrays, or .isPrime() on numbers, etc. Assuming I kept a collection of utilities like this published on Github, would it be ...

discussion policy code-golf answers

Mr. Xcoder

That kind of challenge that stays in the unanswered list

ASCII-only

@Mr.Xcoder what Erik said, I need to ~~steal~~ learn its secrets

Erik the Outgolfer

oh I don't think you can

sogl has very insufficient documentation...I don't understand a word

ASCII-only

Also it's not canvas based right?

@EriktheOutgolfer lol Charcoal too

Erik the Outgolfer

at least I've managed to learn charcoal...and the fact that the undocumented ⸿ means "empty string"

ASCII-only

3:19 PM

Just look at docs for rotate and reflect overloads

Erik the Outgolfer

or is ⸿ a variable?

ASCII-only

Oh also most of the new stuff isn't documented yet but thanks to Neil is slowly getting done

@EriktheOutgolfer it means go to X=0, it's a character like newline is

Erik the Outgolfer

and what is y=0 then?

if there is one of course

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer empty string is lowercase omega (probably w)

@EriktheOutgolfer none

Don't think that would be as useful

Erik the Outgolfer

oh so I just rotate the canvas and go to x=0 and then rotate back or something?

ASCII-only

3:22 PM

But you can always use jump

Poke

@Mr.Xcoder why do you say that

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only and how do I get what x am I? I need to count in a variable right?

Mr. Xcoder

@Poke Because I don't think it will ever be answered :D

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer you can do that too yeah but it's slower than a jump not that performance matters

Erik the Outgolfer

actually I think that's only 3 bytes whereas a jump might be more because trailing ⁰

totallyhuman

3:24 PM

it might not be that hard

ascii art languages might do well on that i think

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer two new nilary operators, math i returns X co-ordinate

You can guess what you is

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman Hmm... I don't know. This one is very tough.

Erik the Outgolfer

oh so that's what the new chars in the codepage are about

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only how'd you think charcoal could do on that challenge

Erik the Outgolfer

charcoal doesn't do much logic

totallyhuman

3:27 PM

is there a way to check what the character under the cursor is

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer okay I guess?

Erik the Outgolfer

actually no

ASCII-only

But yeah logic on Charcoal is super long

totallyhuman

long but possible right?

Erik the Outgolfer

3:29 PM

because if there's a literal afterwards you'd still need a ¦

New Main Posts

0

Q: Approximate the Dottie number

The Dottie number is the fixed point of the cosine function, or the solution to the equation cos(x)=x.1 Your task will be to make code that approximates this constant. Your code should represent a function that takes an integer as input and outputs a real number. The limit of your function as ...

code-golf math kolmogorov-complexity

Erik the Outgolfer

@totallyhuman if it's turing complete, that is, then we're completely sure

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman I'd guess 50-100 bytes :(

But because Charcoal has peek it shouldn't be too hard

@totallyhuman yes, peek

It also has a bunch of other peek methods that have never been used before

Erik the Outgolfer

@totallyhuman ＫＫ

it literally means "the character under the cursor"

@ASCII-only feature request: add a "go back" command

Mr. Xcoder

Who was removed? I have -25 on my profile

Business Cat

3:42 PM

No way to know

Erik the Outgolfer

I have -0 on my profile

wizzwizz4

@Mr.Xcoder It's not the sort of thing that mods are supposed to share.

Mr. Xcoder

Ok

Why me?!

wizzwizz4

@EriktheOutgolfer You probably got something like 1 answer upvote and 5 downvotes from them.

Erik the Outgolfer

@wizzwizz4 I meant that it doesn't show up at all

Mr. Xcoder

3:43 PM

I mean, I was on the wave and suddenly

Man, that's frustrating

wizzwizz4

@EriktheOutgolfer They probably didn't vote you.

Business Cat

Only -10 here

Erik the Outgolfer

the last incident I had was -10 on jul 27

HyperNeutrino

-15 for me

Mr. Xcoder

That moment when you have +x when User was removed

Lembik

3:44 PM

@ASCII-only you mean it gives the wrong answer?

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer ???

Lembik

@ASCII-only what is your approach to the problem?

wizzwizz4

@Mr.Xcoder It's a mean, mean user.

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino @BusinessCat Maybe it's because of caird?

Lembik

@ASCII-only I can give you simple python code that gives the right answer

HyperNeutrino

3:44 PM

um

Lembik

but it's slow

Mr. Xcoder

@wizzwizz4 It hasn't happened to me

ASCII-only

@Lembik nah I just haven't finished yet

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only like, a command that lets you go back without remembering the direction yourself

HyperNeutrino

@Mr.Xcoder caird still exists

wizzwizz4

3:45 PM

@Mr.Xcoder I know.

Lembik

@ASCII-only ok.. how are you attacking the problem?

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino I know...

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer So just previous position?

Mr. Xcoder

He got -5 too today

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only more like "go back x distance"

Mr. Xcoder

3:46 PM

Dennis has -32

ASCII-only

@Lembik set + range from 1 to 1<<n

Wheat Wizard

Oh did another user get deleted. I lost 30 myself.

Lembik

@ASCII-only cool

Erik the Outgolfer

martin has -30

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer oh so just opposite of latest movement direction? When would that be useful

Lembik

3:46 PM

@ASCII-only you don't need to worry about half of the strings of course as it's symmetric

Mr. Xcoder

@WheatWizard You have -30, martin -30, dennis -32, I have -25...

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only opposite of current pointer's direction

Mr. Xcoder

That user seemed to have a bit of rep, since they voted for so many people

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer isn't this what pivot is for :P but ok will add tomorrow

Mr. Xcoder

Dang... And I thought I'd hit 6.5 k today

Erik the Outgolfer

3:48 PM

@ASCII-only pivot? that's a point on the canvas not the pointer :p

Mr. Xcoder

Loool, LuisMendo has -55... Poor luis

ASCII-only

@EriktheOutgolfer ? I mean pivot command

Erik the Outgolfer

oh

Wheat Wizard

@Mr.Xcoder xnor lost 70

Mr. Xcoder

@WheatWizard Ouch.

ASCII-only

3:49 PM

@Lembik :| idk how to enumerate over only half

Erik the Outgolfer

peter taylor lost 20

Mr. Xcoder

I am searching

jallan -40

ARNAULD -80!

Might have been a JS user

Erik the Outgolfer

leaky -15

Mr. Xcoder

okx -0 :)

Erik the Outgolfer

stewie griffin -25

eth -10

Mr. Xcoder

3:51 PM

emigna -10

Erik the Outgolfer

feersum -20

downgoat -25

Mr. Xcoder

We should search on who that user was

jimmy -0

Wait, I have a clue.

I only lost 10

3:52 PM

fatalize -0

Mr. Xcoder

I am nearly convinced they had more rep than I did.

Wheat Wizard

Ok I don't think listing every users rep loss is very productive

Erik the Outgolfer

wheat wizard -30

Mr. Xcoder

No, they didn't

Step Hen

@WheatWizard if we list every user's rep loss, we'll (eventually) find a user who doesn't exist anymore

Erik the Outgolfer

3:53 PM

@Mr.Xcoder who was it?

Wheat Wizard

I don't think we need to figure out who it was anyway. Just let it be.

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I don't know, but they had certainly less rep than I did

Erik the Outgolfer

conor -10

Mr. Xcoder

@WheatWizard We can't just let that be

Erik the Outgolfer

ok moving to second page

Mr. Xcoder

3:55 PM

Poor Jenny

Erik the Outgolfer

arnauld lost more

Mr. Xcoder

We know

6 mins ago, by Mr. Xcoder

ARNAULD -80!

Two users were removed ^

Erik the Outgolfer

oh wait that's -40

Mr. Xcoder

Not my rep graph

Primo lost a bit too

Step Hen

Unrelated, but gnat passed Conor in all time votes

Mr. Xcoder

3:58 PM

Kritixi / Cows didn't loose any either

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder isn't primo inactive?

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer They are. But they have lost 10.

Erik the Outgolfer

ilmari -10

beta decay -5

Mr. Xcoder

He/She seems to have been around for a while.

Erik the Outgolfer

rod -50

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