@JoschKraus I don't quite understand you? my point is is that the programming language itself is art somewhat

@DestructibleLemon I think he's saying the analogy isn't exactly correct haha

@trichoplax More so in fastest-code than code-golf :P

@JoschKraus Also, not every challenge on this site is about short code ("code-golf"). There are also other types of challenge like fastest-code, code-challenge and king-of-the-hill, which are more likely to use more familiar languages

I consider the output of a programming language the "art", and the language itself the means to create the art. Understand me there, I was just curious about your motivation

@JoschKraus Do you know javascript?

@trichoplax Nice, gonna have a look there

@ASCII-only No I mean even with golfing languages the new paradigms give new ways of thinking about approaches to problems

Yes of course

@ASCII-only Wait nvm

@JoschKraus Opps. Do you know Python?

Don't use it much I do simulations for satellite navigation mostly in matlab and python

@trichoplax Yeah I know, I'm just saying more people would probably benefit from the fastest-code ones because they can be applied in more situations I guess?

@JoschKraus so if you know python :39020645 This is a current King of the Hill challenge every answer is in python (has to be for this challenge) you may want to try your hand

Also if your bot wins then you get 100 rep bounty

That is the only KoTH that is in python right now (afaik)

@JoschKraus well, you know that things don't need to be exactly analogous to the way art is produced to be artlike

@ASCII-only I'd say they're both useful in different ways. Real world programming often doesn't need as much speed optimisation as people want to do anyway...

just out of curiosity how does one type Jelly + 05ab1e? it seems really impractical for typing imo

Jelly can be typed with an international keyboard (but I don't know the details on that) 05AB1E I assume is just copy-paste

Haha you guys are crazy, haven't thought at all that there is a community about these kind of things this afternoon :DDD

ah

ok new question. how do i learn Jelly

@JoschKraus how dare you 😡

We have a chat room dedicated to helping people learn Jelly

oh shit really

thanks

is it the hypertraining room

Yes

or just the one labeled Jelly/

ah ok

But one of the ROs has to give you access

thanks!

And neither are online atm as far as I can tell

@JoschKraus :) Plenty of people here didn't know about golfing or any of these languages before they found the site. But then they got drawn in...

@Dennis What did you golf in before that

python probably

Dennis has a fair few CJam answers under his belt

@trichoplax so how would you people consider me being part of the gang, do I have to be able to write a google replica entirely in Fish or whats a good place to start right here. Fish surely seems to be the most funny while not being flat stupid like whitespace

it is ><>

@JoschKraus I've never seen a community so welcoming of newcomers. You don't need any prior knowledge, just jump in.

@DestructibleLemon what on earth is that

You can go ahead and start using anything you know, more experienced golfers are happy to give tips

Reading @JoschKraus question, I wonder if a related meta question along the lines of "resources for discovering and learning obscure/golfing languages" would be helpful.. There's always the list of user-created languages, but that only scratches the surface...

@JoschKraus I made a typo

For easy esolangs to learn, I think ><> and Befunge are probably good, though I haven't used either much

I guess you made some weird programming language and now you try to suck me into it :D

CJam is probably the easiest golfing language to learn, at least from my experience

Why was I kicked? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/10184/… says that it is OK to promote your posts if it is relevant. I was trying to tell a new user about a challenge they may enjoy.

Easy esolangs? Charcoal :P

@Phoenix Bash, then GolfScript, then CJam.

well idk, but it has a verbose mode which is C-style

oh right

@JoschKraus fish is a shell language like zsh/bash, ><> is the esoteric language you're probably thinking baout

ecks dee

> It's done in moderation.

@trichoplax This is kinda embarrassing but I have to admit I was drawn in via HNQ

@Christopher If it hadn't been linked so many times the past few days, it would have been fine

@trichoplax >, but if you are sharing links to your posts more than 3-4 times a day, or multiple times in under 20 minutes, you're doing it wrong

@Christopher actually found that quite useful I'll see what I can do about this as soon as its not 3 AM in the night any more

@ASCII-only So was I, I think most people were. But I was kind of sucked in as soon as I saw it

@ASCII-only I don't think I've ever used Python before PPCG. After reading enough answers, I was curious enough, so I implemented my own languages in it: first ShapeScript (which is really simple to implement), then Jelly (which actually made me learn Python).

@Christopher That's an extreme example, not a limit. There's no strict boundary, but it's seemed excessive the last few days

hey dennis posted python answers before jelly answers

I was right apparently

@trichoplax You also appear to be on every time I am XD

@Christopher Yeah I haven't been asleep much recently... Notice that I didn't remove the post, so it can still be useful as intended. It wasn't that post in itself that was the problem, just all the ones before

@trichoplax removes all the other posts ok i get it

Oh no SOGL has become so golfy

Oh no I have become so short

@ASCII-only Where do you think I came from...? :)

Okay what:

Don't you love when others teach you about your language

@DestructibleLemon I might have mixed up the timeline a bit. I definitely didn't know enough Python to do anything serious in it before I implemented my languages in it.

@ASCII-only I read that as 4 - s and took a long time to work out what it really meant

@ASCII-only Embarrassing? I joined PPCG because of code trolling. >_>

What??!?

Yep. Kept showing up in HNQ and looked interesting.

You can blame Geobits for my arrival - I came here for Hunger Gaming

I joined because of that string pacman challenge I think

I don't even remember my first post...

I think it might not have been my first post

wait, yeah it was

@BusinessCat My first post was later, but that was what drew me in

You know, dennis has hit the repcap more than I have answered most likely

I don't post much

You know, not everything has to be phrased in terms of comparison with Dennis

This might be true though. I've rep capped 421 times.

Yeah that is true (what I said)

Yeah Martin deserves comparison with too

@Dennis You also have answers that earn more rep then me

@ASCII-only Martin is less active in chat

Well that off-topic question got enough upvotes to get the user into chat :P

@Christopher I can manage that one too...

@trichoplax If he got 5 rep ever time he repcapped he would have more rep then me

@Christopher Sadly, most of my popular answers aren't actually good.

Surprisingly, my highest voted answers aren't super trivial

@Dennis Are they just Jelly answers? :P

@Dennis I can kinda say the same but my most popular answer is +7

Well, the top 2 aren't, then I have some trivial ones just below that...

My highest-voted answer is for the Extreme Fibonacci challenge lol

@Christopher I was referring to having your rep from a single answer...

@ASCII-only Worse. My top answer is just the F00F bug.

@trichoplax I know

Oh OK

My third top answer is the crack to Wheat Wizard's first Make Your Language Mostly Unusable CnR attempt by just setting the recursion limit back xD

My highest-voted is for Regex-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock

6 out of my top 10 answers are on a single closed question

lol

@HyperNeutrino pranked

Which didn't take me long to make but at least it's not completely trivial

you all have so much rep :_(

My secret: less chat, more answers.

I'm still trying to think of good koth ideas

ಠ_ಠ

My secret: Be here for a long time. I get rep eventually :P

(Ignore the fact that my profile says I've been a user for 2 months)

oh. I may have solved one problem with pop cons.

My secret: Charcoal

@HyperNeutrino that is wrong

@Christopher yeah of course I've been here for almost 2 years by now, I think.

@Christopher It's correct, just that user specifically is 2 months old

My secret: graphical-output answers get disproportionately many votes

@trichoplax gug

@ASCII-only Okay true :P

@Christopher What does that stand for?

@trichoplax :| I should really start making a Pixel art Charcoal derivative

@trichoplax huh

typing fast since starting game of Dota

Ah

Annd someone left

My top voted answer is curl ai.

@Christopher Most of my rep is from answers to graphical challenges

ಠ_ಠ voters these days...

hmmm

maybe I should submit my graphical output program I made

lol if you look at my daily rep gain graph it's just a pretty rough "terrain" until the end where it's just a solid chunk of green. No idea what happened these past few days xD

10,10,10, was my highest-voted answer for a while

Also what why do I have two starboard messages

Because you're special

:D :P

Apart from the answers to the closed challenge, my top voted answer is my very first PPCG post, and remains my avatar

Oh that's what your avatar is!

@HyperNeutrino Wait what you know Anyfix completely :O

Oh it's the weird spinning turtle thingy

@ASCII-only well there isn't much to know... xD

I'm sure Neil knows Charcoal better than I do now haha

I'm sure some golfing expert would know Anyfix better than I do if it were worth using in the first place xD

Challenge accepted

@HyperNeutrino Just realised someone answered that this year in Excel

lol

@trichoplax uh wat :o xD

It's kind of square but still works

Interesting.

@HyperNeutrino The profile says they prefer to keep an air of mystery about them, so perhaps you should check with them IRL before blowing their cover...

hm

Yeah I'll do that actually. I shouldn't talk about users' non-internet identities over the internet without their given permission :P

I know I'd appreciate that if it were me :)

:)

@HyperNeutrino He posted one answer and it's invalid >_>

rip

Next one is easy but IDK if using charcoal here is a waste EDIT nvm invalidated

I'm trying to use brainf**k

Sorry to the people on the OEIS challenge

so 92 is as well

Guys can we delete 91?

Just give it a downvote and we can start deleting it. I'll flag it as NAA but I'd prefer we delete it before someone chains onto it again

I could try #91 but I have no idea how to do this haha

Or Dennis could just nuke it

Dennis nuked it xD

Now to figure out what a trivalent graph is lol

It looks like the values for 91 are only known up to A(12)

Does that mean those 12 could just be hardcoded?

Actually there's only 10 since it starts at 3...

I'm trying to follow the formula given, and follow it as it keeps going into other sequences

A trivalent graph is a graph for which all vertices have degree three. Makes sense. It has girth n, which means its shortest cycle is of length n. This part is trickier to understand for me, at least in terms of how to program it.

So first, we construct a cycle of length n.

Then figure out how you add more nodes to it without making another cycle longer than n

Err, shorter than n

Yes.

And ensure connected edges never exceed three? (Also continue until all nodes have three connected edges

Would be cool if we could A42 again somehow. How else would Retina get to be used on this challenge

lol

@ASCII-only yeah

@BusinessCat Well Retina can do math

Actually A30 would be just fine as well

Yes it can but it's very awkward

@BusinessCat I'm reading the part at the top, and think I agree with you

Current lower bounds for a(13)..a(32) ....

Current upper bounds for a(13)..a(32) ........

@BusinessCat I was so stoked when I thought I was solving A30

rip it's unsolved

Is there a contingency plan for it? Or is the challenge over now, with the 90 answer the winner?

Unsolved sequences have been done before.

Namely, the one about the number of halting Turing machines :P (which cannot be solved)

hmmm...

@HyperNeutrino isn't that infinite?

Should try to use brainfuck for this one somehow since all the values are <255

@DestructibleLemon no, it's unsolved though

*unsolveable

@HyperNeutrino I mean, there must be infinite halting turing machines

Well for some number N there's some restriction

I think it's "number of unique turing machines that halt in the given number of states"

oh ok

Well I think the intended method is brute-force

I'm still trying to think of a good koth idea

@Downgoat @HyperNeutrino someone cracked it

Ooh.

That was fast.

@StepHen BTW for spoilers just prepend each line with >!

@ASCII-only I did (it's in peer edit) but it's screwy

IIRC multiple consecutive lines results in a block spoiler

Not when I tried it, it resulted in a block with literals !s at the beginning of each line

@StepHen you did have a space after the ! right? (Also two spaces at the end of each line?)

@ASCII-only Also two spaces at the end of each line? not that, thanks

That did it, thanks, dunno why it needs those two spaces

@StepHen Markdown needs two spaces after each line to signify newline, a single space is just a line continuation because Markdown recommends source lines <80 chars long

@ASCII-only Ah OK, very nice to know, thank you

@cairdcoinheringaahing for the next oeis, can we just hardcode the ~10 numbers in, and undefined behavior outside of that range?

@HyperNeutrino I got more rep on PPCG from NaN != NaN than you did on SO, so ha

I've been having a bit too much fun with my Lua Protoexpressions.

escape = gsub(text, "%W", "%%%0")
palindrome = gsub(text,".*",#gsub(reverse(text),"("..escape(sub(text, -1, -1)).."*)(.*)",#(reverse(b)..a..b)))

A function which palidromises the input, sensitive to repeated characters.

@StepHen >.< evile xD :P

If you don't care about being sensitive to multiples, eg. abcc becoming abccba and instead accept abcccba you can use palindrome=gsub(text,"(.*)(.)",#(a..b..reverse(a)))

@Mr.Xcoder do you happen to be proficient in core-graphics? I was wondering if you could help me with this problem >_<

CMP: what was the first post you upvoted on PPCG

@StepHen wuh... O_o how did he...

@Downgoat I dunno, I really don't

huh, also their very first post as a new SE user

@StepHen It's on your profile if you want to find out

You can check on your profile.

Go to activity, votes, upvotes, go to the very end.

@trichoplax @ATaco Not about the votes, about my cipher that someone cracked

@StepHen Sorry I misread the link to the previous message

It's true

:O really

:O screenshot for proof?

This is sad ;_; I can't solve a Jelly Hypertraining challenge that I'm fairly confident I didn't struggle so much with when I first did it ;_; probably means I need to train/practice more ofter :P

hm I'm not sure I am able to make the TIO for a challenge I want to answer

What's the problem?

I'm not sure how to ask this without making it obvious what I'm trying to do, lol

@ArnoldPalmer I've written somewhat of a tutorial now.

I would like to participate in the formic functions koth but js is evil

also for this, it seems trivial to crack most of these by calling them with incorrect args? codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/135363/7924

That's the challenge for the cops to try to resolve.

RIP python? lol

Only those that eval the input.

Without any sanity checks, that is.

Eval isn't the only way to parse numbers, but it is the shortest. Shame this isn't a golf challenge first :P

Good news - in a couple hours, ppcg.ga and tnb-chat.ga will be a thing

Was tnb.ga taken?

Also, why .ga?

Global Access. and it was the only domain available for ppcg, so I decided to be consistent

tnb.<everything> was taken :/

And here I was thinking of the Gabonese Republic.

That might be what it stands for, but hey, .tv stands for Tuvalu and everyone calls it Television

@MDXF That already existed, no? Did it disappear?

yes

Did what disappear?

ppcg.ga

codegolf.stackexchange.com/search?q=ppcg.ga

what are all the other ppcgs

Oh yeah it disappeared after a year 'cause whoever registered it was cheap

(cough me too, it'll disappear after a year)

Oh or 3 months if they were incredibly lazy

Famously used as (eww"ppcg.ga").

eww emacs

curl ppcg.ga already shows a PPCG frame and some scary JavaScript.

Yep

DNS is registering

javascript is bad and I hate it

tnb-chat.ga is being slower because I registered eight at once

uh oh?

Refused to display 'https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/' in a frame because it set 'X-Frame-Options' to 'SAMEORIGIN'.

<html>
  <head>
    <title>ppcg.ga</title>
    <meta name="description" content="ppcg.ga">
    <meta name="keywords" content="ppcg.ga">
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    <script type="text/javascript">
        var _gaq = _gaq || [];
        _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-23441223-3']);
        _gaq.push(['_setDomainName', 'none']);
        _gaq.push(['_setAllowLinker', true]);
        _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']);
        (function() { var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true;

curl ppcg.ga ^

@Dennis Oh crap, I'll change it to 301 redirect instead of frame cloaking

I just get a blank page when I visit it.

All right, modified to HTTP 301 forwarding

should register in a few

It's up

@ATaco Is it better now?

Or would you allow for random strings to be returned?

Personally, I suggest any behavior to be allowed, or more accurately, allow the writer to assume such an input would never be provided.

Ok, I'll update it again.

Cheers for the feedback!

I am afraid I cannot really help you @Downgoat. If I have any ideas, I'll share them with you

hmmm I have an idea for a game maybe

your bot has two parts: a simple automaton controlling the walker

and a watcher part that manipulates the grid

you get to move walls around while the walker moves around. you have to try and collect coins or something

how about a "build the wall" two sided koth? yeah I'm still trying to think things up

or maybe just team based with two walls

I also think it would be useful to have supplies in the base, so a team gets an advantage by allowing there to be a way back into the base, but only being available to their own team somehow

:| I am trying to buy a notebook and only computers are showing pu

:| still can't get a good koth idea together

@DestructibleLemon idea: they are sheep which are trying to take over world and you program goats to defeat them

You can add thing like climbing vertical cliffs which sheep can't do

kinda vague

goal is to 'destroy' sheep by navigating to all of them

I was also thinking of something simplistic like, called "graph wars"

Destroy the sheep

also that would be a code challenge

local r = io.read
io.read = function(s)
	local s = r(s)
	if(s:find("sheep"))then
		return error("Invalid STDIN provided")
	end
	return s
end

@ASCII-only Are you asking for an opinion or asking me to edit them in? Because if it's the former, I think any improvement to OEIS prompted by PPCG qualifies, and if it's the latter the answer is a community wiki so you can do it yourself without treading on anyone's toes.

def gets
    unless $LINES
        $LINES = $<.readlines
    end
    out = $LINES[0]
    $LINES.shift
    abort 'Invalid STDIN provided' if out.contains('sheep')
    return out
end

has anyone here used a smartpen before?

CMC: Replace your language's input method with one that rejects 'sheep'

@Phoenix Can we throw a fatal error if the input is sheep?

Yes

@Phoenix JS: a=prompt,prompt=c=>~(b=a()).search`sheep`||b

@Phoenix would çsheep/ZQ count? (Quit if input contains sheep)

def readInput():
    i = input()
    if i == 'sheep':
        raise ValueError('Sheeps are evil ceatures that destroy our beautiful planet. Therefore, we cannot allow sheep to enter our field.\nAccess: Denied.')
    return i

print(readInput())

@Mr.Xcoder The idea is you redifine your normal input function.

@Phoenix Ahh

:| so apparently the notebook is supposed to be microwavable but apparently it's actually just the pen so you buy $30 notebook but actually useless because you need to buy their pen

Did you microwave your notebook

@Phoenix don't worry you're supposed to

it's a smart notebook

I just downloaded a .zip.tar.bz2

I should stop what I'm doing before my computer dies again.

@Phoenix It would work if I called it def input().

NVM ^

Lua, 83 bytes. r=io.read io.read=function(...)s=r(...)if s:find"sheep"then error()end return s end

@Downgoat You received a comment on SO. Did it solve your problem?

unfortunately not because apparently .mask shows only upon the text rather hiding only the text if that makes sense

like in here:

I think CoreGraphics is the only way to go

really surprised there is not better way given this effect is seen all over iOS

@Downgoat Swift development has lots of strange stuff

Gtg! See ya

@Mr.Xcoder cya .o/

A CSS clause walks into a bar. A barstool in a different bar across town falls over

Which reason is used to reject an edit on other's answer in code-golf? The edit uses a different method to solve the problem in same language. Should it be 'Clearly object to author's intent' or 'This edit was intended to address the author of the post and makes no sense as an edit. It should have been written as a comment or an answer'?

I chose the latter

@BruceForte Maybe I read it too fast, but I don't see how my answer is a reference for this :-)

@KeyuGan the former imo

@Phoenix well at least it's not a zip that contains itself, which actually breaks some antiviruses

phew just survived giant internet disconnect

I'm still half a sleep and read that as "giant insect dissection"

Windows file copy is a game now. Apparently

windows everything is a game now

windows is a meme*

@Mr.Xcoder @Mayube thanks

I am so excited >_<, but I dunno why