The Nineteenth Byte

Hey, at least it's not Perl operators.

@BusinessCat Yes, but how many do?

@BusinessCat assuming they have good codepage

e.g. 05AB1E uses * for multiplication, × for string repetition and .× for array repetition

@BusinessCat But then we have the problem of confusing it with x and/or X. And there's also the cross product, which should always use ×.

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Jelly uses × for multiplication and ẋ for array repetition

Business Cat

3:02 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer Wat. I would at least expect it to be the other way around.

New Sandboxed Posts

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Every Nth Line in Source Outputs N code-challenge source-layout Heavily inspired by Hello, World! (Every other character) Related to my other Sandbox post Every Nth Char in Source Outputs N; is it a dupe? Write a program that outputs 1. When the first, third, fifth, etc. lines are removed, it...

@EriktheOutgolfer Ninja'd.

@Adám (ninja...?)

How about Cartesian product?

is there a language with a built in for tetration?

3:03 PM

that's p in Jelly

@Uriel I don't think so D:

@Adám in the beginning I though APL's ↑ was for it, but then I realized knuth was just born when it was created

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@Uriel We may get that as "a three-glyph" soon.

What is a "three glyph"?

3-char glyph?

@ZacharyT glyph that takes 3 bytes

3:05 PM

that's never done in history afaict

Oh, 3 bytes of UTF-8?

@ZacharyT APL doesn't really use multi-glyph built-ins, but some combinations of glyphs act like single units. E.g. +.× is cross product, which is really made of three built-ins, but you can look at it as a three-glyph. Likewise with summation, +/

@ZacharyT yes, because they are not on the classic set, like the key operator

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Posting this some time today, any input on it?

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Remove Spaces, Maintaining Capitalization //Better title would be appreciated code-golf string Your input will be an English sentence, phrase, or word. It will only contain a-zA-Z' -,.!?. Your task is to take the input, remove spaces, and then redistribute capitalization such that letters at i...

Tetration would be *⍢⍟ if we get ⍢.

3:07 PM

o_o.

@Adám so 5 bytes, considering ⍢ is a UTF

It's in the classic set, isn't it?

@Adám what is that supposed to do?

@Uriel Yeah, APL isn't a golfing language.

@ZacharyT No.

@Adám Dyalog can do it in 3, right? Or am I misreading something: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/97029/65836

3:09 PM

not sure if one glyph though

I think I'll just create a Help, Wardoq like-language whose 254 commands are for mult, power, tetration, pentation, hexation...

That's ⍫, sorry, I misremembered.

@StephenS Neat, but that isn't a single entity, you'd need parentheses to use it in a tacit function.

@Uriel the other 2 are addition and primality testing?

@EriktheOutgolfer ofcourse, that's why 254

3:10 PM

then how should we handle inputs, how should we be able to push numbers?

@Uriel no no no, make empty program do addition with 2 inputs and primality with 1, and then Hello, World! with none

@EriktheOutgolfer like the plus command, implicit input of 2 numbers

@EriktheOutgolfer f⍢g does f while the argument(s) are under the influence of g, and then negates the influence when done.

@Adám ooh that's cool

@Uriel how are we supposed to reuse inputs then? ;)

@StephenS brilliant. just saved me 2 more for 256-ion and 257-ion, considering addition is 1-ion

3:12 PM

or push negative numbers?

Bitbucket seems to hate me.

@EriktheOutgolfer "Help, KnuthDoq does its best to guess the programmer intention" (copied shamelessly from Bubblegum)

kind of unusable for real programming isn't it?

@ZacharyT huh?

@ZacharyT that's because atlassian hates everyone

*⍢⍟ is exponentiation under the influence of logarithm, i.e. tetration. Just like exponentiation is ×⍢⍟.

3:13 PM

atlassian is expensive

@EriktheOutgolfer No, just reserve one of your constants for starting Jelly code with the input from your code

o_o

@LuisMendo yes, I'm leaving, editing your profile like that is apparently how you have to confirm ownership of the account

the account deletion process takes ages

why are you leaving?

Q: How are bytes count in Unicode-based languages?

but my hatred of Stack Exchange was leaking into my love of code golf; I thought my love for code golf would make Stack Exchange more palatable, but it happened the other way round

New Meta Posts

3:14 PM

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I often see characters counted as "bytes" in languages like Charcoal and 05AB1E. Is this correct to do? What are the rules for counting bytes in Unicode-based languages?

discussion

I'm fine with the community here, and have no problem with it

I just can't tolerate the website itself

@ais523 hatred for what? the voting system?

@Uriel the Stack Exchange software as a whole

I'm not convinced any of the features work for their intended purpose

if a feature happens to be useful, it's only because we're misusing it

in particular, the reputation system encourages people to optimize for triviality

@Adám of course it is

people are either driven away from the site, or else end up adopting a culture of just doing easy stuff because hard stuff doesn't get rewarded

3:16 PM

@ais523 that's because stack exchange was never intended to host competitions

it was intended to collaboratively create an FAQ about programming but it doesn't even do that well

but it works even worse on PPCG than it does elsewhere

@ais523 Maybe, but you still get rewarded for going against the flow: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/111932/65836

10k rep, less because of rep cap, is nothing to scoff at

anyway, just talking about it's making me really upset again; I don't want to end up hating code golf as much as I hate Stack Exchange, but the two are starting to become connected in my mind

the community here is great; hopefully some day we can end up on a site that's less of an issue

@Uriel, did you say that randint(0,n-1) or randint(1,n) should be one byte?

(Did you know you get a badge for deleting your account? You have to edit your profile to confirm your ownership, and editing your profile gets you a badge. Of course this doesn't matter long-term because the account gets deleted anyway, but it still struck me as a nice miniature example of how the incentives here are all wrong.)

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anyway, I hadn't really meant to make a big public show of all this

3:21 PM

I don't see how trivial challenges receiving more attention and votes than harder challenges is an issue with the SE software, it's clearly an issue with the mindset of the community.

hopefully I'll see many of you later on, somewhere else, but now and here I've given up.

Wheat Wizard

@Mayube A lot of it comes from the HNQ

@ais523 We can catch you on esolangs, right? If we really want to

anyway on an unrelated note

sed's basic regex doesn't seem to support capture groups and backreferences

yep, you can also email me, I think my email address is public

I don't go on IRC as often as I used to but I hope to be there more often in future

@Mayube just responding to this, it's also true with answers in addition to questions, although for a different reason; trivial answers are faster to write (minutes rather than days), an answer that really takes a lot of thought and effort won't appear until days or weeks after the question and nobody is looking at it then

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code-golf sequence binary

3:25 PM

so uh, how could I replace x_suffix with x, and y_suffix with y, but not replace z_suffix? s/[^z]_suffix//g doesn't work because it would remove the last character of the thing too

anyway, bye

k, bye

bye

bye

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Q: The dragon Curve sequence

The dragon curve sequence (or the regular paper folding sequence) is a binary sequence. a(n) is given by negation of the bit left of the least significant bit of n. For example to calculate a(2136) we first convert to binary: 100001011000 We find our least significant bit 100001011000 ...

PhiNotPi

3:30 PM

"An Empirical Comparison of the Accuracy Rates of Novices using the Quorum, Perl, and Randomo Programming Languages": ecs.victoria.ac.nz/foswiki/pub/Events/PLATEAU/Program/…

> Perl users were unable to write programs more accurately than those using a language designed by chance.

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