The Nineteenth Byte

programmer5000

17:00

Pro code golfing:

4

1: go to google.com

2: Press Control+U

MD XF

@programmer5000 HA

Or 1- go to google.com 2- google "shortest <language> <challenge>"

tfw you golf a polyquine

programmer5000

In a language with only string literals, a string repeat function, and an output function, how could you make a quine?

MD XF

easily

one sec

programmer5000

Researchers just found the gene responsible for mistakenly thinking we've found the gene for specific things. It's the region between the start and the end of every chromosome, plus a few segments in our mitochondria.

MD XF

@programmer5000 A simple C quine using only string literals and an output function: main(a){printf(a="main(a){printf(a=%c%s%c,34,a,34);}",34,a,34);}

Does said language have formatted output?

programmer5000

17:07

No, but string concatenation.

MD XF

I bet you could make it work

programmer5000

C-like escapes

MD XF

Can it concatenate ASCII values?

For example concatenate(string,34), or something similar

programmer5000

Like ASCII char code to string? Yes

MD XF

@programmer5000 OOC what lang are we discussing?

programmer5000

17:08

"test" + codeToString(34) + "hi"

and it is a language I am making now

MD XF

@programmer5000 Yeah you could make that work

programmer5000

How?

MD XF

Does it use C-style function declarations?

Or is it a scripting language

programmer5000

C-style

MD XF

Okay, I'll write some pseudocode

Just a min

How does one declare a string in this language

ArmaGeddON

17:10

Why am I getting segmentation fault?
_start:
movl $1, %eax
movl (%eax), %ebx
int $0x80

MD XF

@ArmaGeddON Stop posting that

programmer5000

@MDXF in quotes like C

MD XF

Put it on StackOverflow if you really care

ArmaGeddON

alright

MD XF

@programmer5000 Got it

Hm

This is getting harder than I expected

I'm getting stuck in an infiniloop with print(codeToString(34)+string+codeToSTring(34)

Just add printf :P

Unless string="string literal"+string would make string = "string literalstring literal"

user165474

17:16

@MDXF Intentional missing close bracket?

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino ...where?

user165474

print(...()+...+...()

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino Ah nope, typo, but it's just pseudocode anyway

programmer5000

@MDXF is it possible / feasable?

MD XF

@programmer5000 It's feasible if string="string literal"+string is valid

programmer5000

17:17

(if it helps, I have an eval function)

@MDXF And, yes

user165474

@MDXF why wouldn't it be?

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino It's his own language, not C

or Java

or anything

programmer5000

@MDXF Then how?

user165474

Oh okay.

MD XF

@programmer5000 Now I'm working on that

programmer5000

17:19

Ok

thanks

MD XF

Yup

Business Cat

An eval function makes it easy enough

MD XF

@BusinessCat tbh never worked with a language that had an eval

programmer5000

@BusinessCat really? Why?

MD XF

I use C, shortC, assembly, BASIC and other ancient languages

Business Cat

17:22

Hmm actually I'm not sure. With eval and string representation it's really easy

MD XF

@BusinessCat ...proof of concept?

programmer5000

@BusinessCat see above, C-like string representation

How is it easy?

user165474

@programmer5000 I remember back when you passed my rep and I was sad lol

MD XF

@programmer5000 I keep getting stuck in infiniloops, screw it

I don't think I know enough about how your language works

Here's as far as I got before getting stuck again: main(){print(a="main(){print(a="+34+a+34+"+34+a+34")

programmer5000

@MDXF What don't you know that you need?

MD XF

17:27

@programmer5000 A GitHub link :P

user165474

CMC: Let there be two rooted trees with root node Z, with the same nodes as each other but different edges. It can be colored with two colors (because it's a tree). Prove that a graph with the same nodes and the union of the edges of the two trees can be colored with at most four colors.

Business Cat

@MDXF Here

MD XF

@BusinessCat damn. I feel pitiful now

Business Cat

Well, technically that should have a trailing newline

Since print adds one

MD XF

@programmer5000 Guess you have your answer then :I x='print("x="+repr(x)+";eval(x)")';eval(x)

Business Cat

17:30

Well that only works if you can use two different kinds of quotes :S

programmer5000

What is repr?

MD XF

@BusinessCat

Business Cat

String representation

Wraps it in quotes

MD XF

@BetaDecay I took your advice and answered Martin's question. valid?

programmer5000

@BusinessCat Oh, so if x was hi then "hi"?

Business Cat

17:31

Yes

MD XF

Brilliant. C needs repr and eval

Business Cat

Without using repr

programmer5000

@MDXF but C is compiled, so eval would have to invoke the compiler from the executable ಠ_ಠ

MD XF

Yeah, C needs eval

Business Cat

But still needs two different kinds of quotes

MD XF

17:33

@programmer5000 True

New life ambition: Add eval to C.

Business Cat

Does the language allow using single or double quotes?

user165474

wait isn't that a cyclic reference

user165474

oh wait nvm it's all in quotes

programmer5000

@BusinessCat is exec the eval function? I assume so

@BusinessCat both are fine

MD XF

@programmer5000 Yeah exec is eval

Business Cat

17:34

Yes exec is eval for some reason

MD XF

Funny because in C exec executes commands

Business Cat

Actually you can use both? Not sure if there's a difference

programmer5000

@BusinessCat Weirdly needs a trailing newline

MD XF

@BusinessCat Python is confusing

programmer5000

@BusinessCat Yes, just like JS, there's no diff

user165474

17:35

exec == eval returns False so they're not quite the same :)

MD XF

Gosh, I hate languages that have builtins with two names

user165474

exec("1")==1 is False but eval("1")==1 is True.

user165474

@programmer5000 @BusinessCat exec is not eval.

Business Cat

Then what's the difference?

user165474

exec performs the actions, eval yields the result

user165474

17:38

exec executes the string as code

user165474

eval evaluates it as a snippet

programmer5000

@BusinessCat Why dosen't that stackoverflow? execing x execs x! (eval works too)

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino Makes sense

Business Cat

When you exec x, you get the code print("x="+chr(39)+x+chr(39)+";exec(x)"). exec(x) is inside a string.

I don't even know if this is a valid quine by our definition.

MD XF

@BusinessCat Why not?

It doesn't read its own source

Business Cat

17:43

I don't know, I don't really understand what our definition means :P

MD XF

@BusinessCat Well, there's a meta post somewhere about that

user165474

a=lambda x,y:eval('eexveacl'[x::2]+'("'+'eexveacl'[y::2]+'(\'1\')")')==1

user165474

This calculates the boolean AND of two values.

user165474

without any boolean operators or conditionals (unless equality counts)

user165474

Works for True/1/False/0

MD XF

17:49

Ha, I beat the accepted answer for an assembly quine

Should've waited to post that, already hit the rep cap today :I

user165474

lol

MD XF

an algol 68 quine in 68 bytes

possibly the most poetic thing I've ever posted

TuxCopter

Halp

MD XF

?

TuxCopter

Sublime Text says me that plugin_host exited unexpectedly and it keeps appearing after multiple restarts

I had a BSOD earlier so I guess this is what borked it but how to fix

MD XF

17:59

@TuxCopter This isn't Stack Overflow

This is the PPCG chat

Phoenix

I fail to see your point

TNB does tech support all the time

MD XF

Really?

user165474

Well, tech support is more on-topic than juicing avocados at least.

TuxCopter

heh

Beta Decay

[Citation needed]

MD XF

18:03

@HyperNeutrino :P link?

Beta Decay

Check the many memes of PPCG

MD XF

...link? xD

Beta Decay

20

A: The Many Memes of PPCG

Meme: how does juice an avocado I have try for thirtee minut and no juic Originator: Alex A. Cultural Height: 22 September 2015 - Present Background: Alex said something dumb about avocados to PhiNotPi in chat. It has since escalated. Exhibit A: Usage example: Literally anything about avoca...

MD XF

Ah, thanks

Kritixi Lithos

My friend got a call from the Indian tech support from Microsoft saying his computer was infected. He said that his Windows Defender said nothing about any infections and the caller hung up

4

user165474

18:06

It means someone posts something right before someone else posts the same thing.

user165474

...

TuxCopter

@NAND This chat room

user165474

@NAND The Nineteenth Byte

NAND

Oh

TuxCopter

double ninja'd :O

VoteToClose

18:09

@TuxCopter I'm not as meme-y as I used to be. :P

Plus, I'm frequently pulled away from PPCG nowadays. :\

Kritixi Lithos

@NAND A place where abuse of stars is legal

NAND

@TuxCopter thanks

user165474

Whoever is starring all these messages, please stop. You're going to run out soon because you only get 20 stars per room per day

13

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino Crap

programmer5000

@HyperNeutrino I thought it was 40

MD XF

18:10

It wasn't me lol

Phoenix

*ghost of elendia starman comes in and nukes everyone*

MD XF

but still

programmer5000

(and no it wasn't me)

MD XF

@Phoenix ?

VoteToClose

@HyperNeutrino I would star for agreement, but eh.

5

DJMcMayhem

18:10

sigh

I don't even know where to start trashing

programmer5000

Can mods see who starred?

user165474

o.o the RO has arrived

programmer5000

Room owners?

VoteToClose

@programmer5000 Nope.

TuxCopter

@programmer5000 Nope

dammit

Beta Decay

18:11

You leave for half a year and TNB goes to pot... Huh, I understand all the meta posts now :|

9

user165474

@DJMcMayhem Start here.

programmer5000

@DJMcMayhem chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240/conversation/trash

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino Who's the RO?

muddyfish

Hey

user165474

DJMcMayhem

MD XF

18:12

How does this work?!?

Phoenix

I got a message saying timeout

Doesn't seem to be doing anything

user165474

Bookmarks?

muddyfish

Have I arrived at the wrong time?

3

programmer5000

@MDXF Click on room, then create new bookmark

@muddyfish yes

Phoenix

@muddyfish Yes

ninja'd

MD XF

18:12

@programmer5000 Ahh

TuxCopter

Damn the star abuse is real today

DJMcMayhem

→ 51 ninjas moved to trash

8

TuxCopter

51 o_O

user165474

Thanks.

Phoenix

That seems low

programmer5000

18:13

Agreed

@DJMcMayhem Ninjas? O_o

VoteToClose

@MDXF You joined after I left for a while. Why would you think I'm a meme if you've never met me? :P

2

Phoenix

XD

prolly your username

muddyfish

Damn, the star abuse is real today

MD XF

@VoteToClose I'd never met Downgoat and it was pretty damn clear he was a meme

user165474

@muddyfish ninja'd by quite a bit

Beta Decay

18:14

You know when a mod moves stuff to trash, maybe its time to stop posting more trash

Phoenix

@muddyfish ಠ_ಠ

programmer5000

Wow most of trash's posts is from TNB

So much for a better chattequet

MD XF

@VoteToClose Your username, profile pic, bio, comments, etc.

Phoenix

TNB is the most active chat room, isn't it?

user165474

s/equet/iquette/

muddyfish

18:15

One of them

VoteToClose

No it's not I'm a liar

MD XF

@Phoenix Meta on the Tavern could compete, right?

programmer5000

@VoteToClose oh

Jan Dvorak

I think SOCVR beats TNB

Phoenix

Meta has it's own chat network

@JanDvorak SOCVR?

programmer5000

18:16

what's SOCVR

user165474

@BetaDecay DJ isn't a mod but same difference

user165474

Stack Overflow Close Vote Reviewers

Jan Dvorak

chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/41570/so-close-vote-reviewers

user165474

I think it may be because SOCVFinder, Smokey, and FIREALARM are all on it

MD XF

That's only 'cause there are like 50 bots posting to that

ninja'd

DJMcMayhem

18:16

SOCV has 2.4k per week. TNB has 7.6k

programmer5000

That's alot

user165474

That's not star-worthy.

programmer5000

@someonewhocan clear the stars

Phoenix

^^ is the least effective message in TNB history

DJMcMayhem

@HyperNeutrino I agree

Adám

18:19

@KritixiLithos I got a call claiming my involvement in in a car accident. I asked which car (I don't own one) of the multiple I usually travel in (true) it was. They hung up.

MD XF

@programmer5000 That's possible?

VoteToClose

@DJMcMayhem Could you leave the stars for a bit? I'm gonna screenshot and put in a request for meta to increase the time period between starring.

3

Phoenix

I think we need to bulk-nuke the past 30 minutes of TNB

DJMcMayhem

@VoteToClose Sure, ping me when you're done. Unfortunately, I've already removed the worst of it

MD XF

@Phoenix think so?

Phoenix

18:20

yes

MD XF

So how come DJ's basically a mod?

muddyfish

Was that a poorly concealed plan to get people to stop starring?

VoteToClose

We're already good. Thanks.

Phoenix

@MDXF We elected him

programmer5000

Please bulk nuke. NOW.

DJMcMayhem

18:20

@MDXF I can do some simple moderation tasks in this particular room

user165474

@MDXF He's a room owner

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino So RO did stand for Room Owner.

user165474

Yes.

programmer5000

alias RO="Room Owner"

user165474

:I

programmer5000

18:22

Trash Nuke starBait Please now

MD XF

@DJMcMayhem What's The Algorithm? just browsing your bio

user165474

@MDXF Why are you stalking random people? ;)

DJMcMayhem

What do you mean by algorithm?

Oh, nvmd I see what you mean

MD XF

We did not invent The Algorithm. The algorithm is banned in 47 countries. The algorithm is on-topic on 87 percent of SE sites. The Algorithm consistently finds Jon Skeet. The algorithm cannot be detected by regex. This is not the algorithm. This is close.

DJMcMayhem

Haha

MD XF

18:23

Are you a meme too?!? ;)

DJMcMayhem

@MDXF I'm not sure what the algorithm is, but I can certainly tell you that this is not the algorithm

This is close

user165474

Is Green Eggs and Ham the same person as McMayhem?

MD XF

@DJMcMayhem So it's basically another meme, like Zalgo and Jon Skeet?

Phoenix

Also, what does :w !sudo tee % do

MD XF

@Phoenix in Vim?

Phoenix

18:24

Actually nvm I'll just try it because it has sudo in it and that's a good idea.

@MDXF yes

DJMcMayhem

@Phoenix It's a vim hack that lets you save files you don't have access to

Phoenix

Ah

MD XF

@Phoenix man tee

user165474

man tee

MD XF

ninja'd

user165474

18:25

That's a link.

programmer5000

Uh oh

DJMcMayhem

@HyperNeutrino Manatee?

user165474

Manatee

Manatees (family Trichechidae, genus Trichechus) are large, fully aquatic, mostly herbivorous marine mammals sometimes known as sea cows. There are three accepted living species of Trichechidae, representing three of the four living species in the order Sirenia: the Amazonian manatee (Trichechus inunguis), the West Indian manatee (Trichechus manatus), and the West African manatee (Trichechus senegalensis). They measure up to 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) long, weigh as much as 590 kilograms (1,300 lb), and have paddle-like flippers. The etymology of the name is dubious, with connections having been made...

MD XF

Close enough.

programmer5000

man a tee

user165474

18:25

anyway i got to go now

programmer5000

(ninja'd)

user165474

bye!

Phoenix

man tee

VoteToClose

Nevermind there are already tons of questions asking to reduce star rate, to reduce star count for the day, and alternatives to starring.

MD XF

@Phoenix Holy sh*t

Phoenix

18:26

eh?

MD XF

I never thought of using TIO for manpages

Damn brilliant

programmer5000

@Phoenix Why not bash

Phoenix

@programmer5000 zsh is conveniently at the end of the list so I know exactly where it is

MD XF

@programmer5000 man tee

Phoenix

Also, zsh master race

programmer5000

18:28

@Phoenix Maybe I should make a programming language called zzzgolfinglang

VoteToClose

I prefer fish.

MD XF

@programmer5000 Do it

Phoenix

Poll: is zsh pronounced "zee-ess-aich" or "zeesh"

MD XF

zee-ess-aich

VoteToClose

Or djshh

Adám

18:30

@Phoenix Works for Windows too: dir -?

Phoenix

I say "zeesh", but "see-ess-aich" for csh

MD XF

ZSH pronunciation

programmer5000

@Phoenix strawpoll.me/13034212

MD XF

@programmer5000 ninja'd

programmer5000

@MDXF Does not check dup responses...

New Main Posts

18:32

0

Q: Is this relationship creepy?

According to this XKCD comic, there is a formula to determine whether or not the age gap in a relationship is "creepy". This formula is defined as: (Age/2) + 7 being the minimum age of people you can date. Given the age of two people, can you output whether or not that relationship is creepy?...

MD XF

@programmer5000 I was looking at the wrong thing anyway

@NewMainPosts why'd that take 20m?

Phoenix

Because the RSS feeds are slow

20m is a bit slower than average but not really.

MD XF

Oh okay

programmer5000

Slow for me

MD XF

Already got two answers to that q :D

Beta Decay

18:39

Kind of a cheat that you used a variant of C for both ;)

MD XF

@BetaDecay It's not a variant :P

@BetaDecay Either way they're both still at 0 votes :(

Kritixi Lithos

I don't understand why taking the larger age first is allowed

MD XF

Somehow, seeing as how mine were posted first and my shortC answer is shorter...

Beta Decay

@KritixiLithos It's not

programmer5000

@MDXF I ran out of upvotes today after I upvoted answers on my challenge

MD XF

18:43

I'm confused as to what 'taking the larger age first' means

programmer5000

What encoding uses 0xff for ÿ?

MD XF

@programmer5000 CP-437 maybe?

Kritixi Lithos

@programmer5000 Latin-1?

DJMcMayhem

Latin-1 definitely does

MD XF

wtf why doesn't f(a,b)(a/2+7>b)||(b/2+7>a) work for that challenge

Phoenix

18:46

@MDXF What language is that

MD XF

@Phoenix C preprocessor

Phoenix

You would need #define f(a,b) (a/2+7>b)||(b/2+7>a) then.

And | is golfier than || btw

The parentheses might be redundant too.

MD XF

@Phoenix I know I need the #define and the parenthesis are for temporary clarity as I fix it

Phoenix

Is your question why it's not working or why it's invalid?

MD XF

Why it's not working, it always returns 1

Pretty sure the second part is wrong as #define f(a,b) (a>b?a/2+7>b:b/2+7>a) doesn't work either

programmer5000

18:51

How can I convert an array of char codes (eg. [72, 101, 108, 108, 111, 44, 32, 87, 111, 114, 108, 100, 33, 32, 13, 10]) to a string in Latin-1 encoding in javascript?

tuskiomi

@MDXF your > should be <

MD XF

@tuskiomi which?

tuskiomi

the last 2

Phoenix

Both I think

Wheat Wizard

Is there anyway to search deleted answers? I deleted an answer on the sandbox and I would like to find it

tuskiomi

18:53

ctrl + H? browser history might not be a bad place to start

MD XF

@tuskiomi Thanks, that fixed it

Adám

Windows-1252

Windows-1252 or CP-1252 is a 1 byte character encoding of the Latin alphabet, used by default in the legacy components of Microsoft Windows in English and some other Western languages. It is one version within the group of Windows code pages. == Details == This character encoding is a superset of ISO 8859-1 in terms of printable characters, but differs from the IANA's ISO-8859-1 by using displayable characters rather than control characters in the 80 to 9F (hex) range. Notable additional characters include curly quotation marks and all the printable characters that are in ISO 8859-15 (at different...

MD XF

Fixed answers codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/122533/61563 codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/122532/61563

Wheat Wizard

@tuskiomi I asked it a long time ago.

I've wiped my hard drive 5 or 6 times since then

MD XF

Holy avocados, that question skyrocketed

Probably 'cause it's so freaking easy

Wheat Wizard

18:58

@MDXF Could you lay of the self promotion a bit.

MD XF

@WheatWizard sorry

tuskiomi

@WheatWizard does this turn anything up for ya: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/…

Wheat Wizard

Not the deleted ones. Thanks though

Adám

@programmer5000 Don't know much JS, but 'Hello, World!' 'Windows-1252'⎕NPUT'\tmp\my.txt' does it in Dyalog APL.

MD XF

@WheatWizard Does codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/users/recently-deleted-answers/… here> work?

oops, didn't show

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/users/recently-deleted-answers/<userid-here>

Wheat Wizard

19:01

I guess its to old. Thanks

tuskiomi

and this doesn't show it either, huh? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/users/56656/…

MD XF

@tuskiomi Like he said, it's probably too old

Wheat Wizard

Is there a equivalent of <cntrl>K in Vim/V?

MD XF

@WheatWizard dd?

Wheat Wizard

Oh yeah

MD XF

19:11

Cuts the current line. Un-cut with u

Wheat Wizard

duh

I feel real dumb now. Thanks!

programmer5000

19:26

How are chatbots for TNB made?

MD XF

19:39

@programmer5000 Check out some SE Chatbot repos

TuxCopter

But do not make a chatbot for TNB

MD XF

@TuxCopter There are already quite a few

New Main Posts, New Meta Posts, New Sandboxed Posts, etc

TuxCopter

Yes but those are official

Phoenix

I don't think those are quite bots, feeds are different

New Main Posts

-1

Q: Little Man Computer Problem

I am struggling on little man computer question. Input two numbers, x and y. If x is exactly 1 larger than y, then it outputs 11 and if it isn't then it outputs 22. I would appreciate if you can explain how you did it so i understand it. Thank you!

code-challenge

programmer5000

19:53

@NewMainPosts Should be deleted

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Prime of My Life This year my age is a prime number, and so is this year. This conjunction will repeat in 10 years and again in 12. If I live to 100, I will lived exactly 11 years in which my age and the year are both prime. My condolences to those of you born in odd-numbered years, who will exp...

Dennis

@programmer5000 Definitely not after 20 minutes.

Phoenix

iirc normal people can't cast delete votes the same day a question is posted

Transcript for