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00:00
:37289785
@HyperNeutrino My bad. I forgot about that room
user165474
Ah. I see.
user165474
@ZacharyT still don't spam it
user165474
well actually prolly nobody would care
Yes, but that is comprised of memes and tests.
user165474
00:02
true
It's funny how the 19th byte is like a disease, spreading to other chatrooms.
user165474
kek for insulting the 19th byte
@ZacharyT ... get out (/s)
What is kek, a corruption of kick?
kek means lol (from world of warcraft)
00:08
(For the Horde!)
user165474
kek, lol, wow. All have one common thing...
user165474
CMC! Given x and y as characters, output xyx!
@HyperNeutrino Turtlèd "xyx!
user165474
bleh
its funny because if you don't know what Turtlèd is, it looks like a golf lang
user165474
00:11
Does that literally output "xyx!"?
@HyperNeutrino yea
user165474
ಠ_ಠ
user165474
CMC! Given x and y as characters, output x + y + x. (concatenation, not codepoint addition)
To phrase it more accurately, due to the benefits and downfalls to 19th byte: it's more like a human, going everywhere, destroying everything. But, it's still humanity.
for a serious answer: !.+r.r+.r'!
it looks like a real esolang now
user165474
00:12
yay
alternately: !'!l.ll.r+.
user165474
nice.
or even !'!l.l+.l+.
but that's pretty much the first answer
@ATaco I made the poll win for tacos
ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ
00:27
this tnb not trash
or sandbox
take it to sandbox, you've been asked already
I know, I was hoping for a real usage if it didn't get removed quickly.
Please don't make me regret my chat commands ;-;
@ZacharyT a what now
00:50
alright who keeps star spamming mundane messages?
That should be the last of it
user165474
everyone with teamspirit
01:04
I'm rather hoping that's not the case.
Does anyone here no any R?
@WheatWizard yes
Why does the program 12 print [1] 12?
@WheatWizard idk actually, probably something to do with scoping? brb checking
Ok Thanks
I'm currently compiling R myself, so I can test on my machine
Ok it finished and it still prints that
01:14
Yeah, it's supposed to
Ok and thats allowed in challenges?
@WheatWizard yeah because it's not really part of the output
Thanks a bunch!
Thanks to that I was able to multiply my score on a challenge by 14
@WheatWizard O.o link?
01:18
@WheatWizard Oh wait so obvious it's index
e.g. try printing a matrix
What is the syntax for a matrix?
matrix(c(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9),nrow=3,ncol=3)
Ah I see
@ASCII-only what does the c stand for?
3d arrays are a bit different: array(seq(1,27),c(3,3,3))
@HelkaHomba R syntax for creating a vector
@HelkaHomba combine
01:24
make up your mind :P
@WheatWizard btw a number is actually a vector of length 1 which is why you have the index
@HelkaHomba sorry, it's the actual correct answer now
yeah I figured as much, good to know
user165474
Can people help flag/nuke this? biology.stackexchange.com/questions/23239/…
@WheatWizard btw use any language with # comments from here if you can
Oh thanks I've been looking for a list like that
01:28
@WheatWizard Rosetta code should be the first place you go to for that :P
I've never been to Rosetta code
02:03
Does anyone have access to R 2.7 or earlier? I can't get it to work on my machine
02:27
Haskell Question: why is 2 * -1 an error? I know I need parens but why does True && not False work in that case?
03:09
3
A: Prefix Notation to Postfix Notation

Nitrodonbrainfuck, 32 bytes ,[[->++++<<+>]>[[-]<<[.[-]<]]>,] Try it online! I used @ as the operation, because its code point (64) is convenient. U is also possible with the same byte count, using 3*85+1=256=0. Explanation The tape is used as a stack. In each iteration of the main loop, the data ...

How is it that brainfuck is the 4th place?
Even golfier than Python...
03:27
I'm reconsidering naming my new esolang a unicode...
I will call it gyre, because the playfield spins
what should I call the point on the circle the ip is on?
position? is there a maths word for this
@DestructibleLemon just use an angle and call it polar coordinate
mightn't it be easier to just use a number round the circle and divide by three or something everytime you go in closer?
@DestructibleLemon yeah
also I haven't decided on the commands yet, or even what up and down are
the choice of characters for a language can change its feel a fair amount
O.o i have no idea how people manage to make so many languages, for me even just Charcoal is too much already
03:39
Question: why does this infinite loop :( take 10 [(a,b,c) | a <- [1..], b <- [1..], c <- [1..], (a ^ 2) + (b ^ 2) == (c ^ 2)]
@Downgoat is this haskell
@ASCII-only you stop making a lang and start making another
(also I have only made 2)
@Downgoat maybe because the list never finishes generating?
@Downgoat you need an upper limit to the ranges probably?
@ASCII-only I never feel finished with my languages, I just, start writing another.
maybe I will stick with latin chars and space and . and ,
so that library of babel has a bunch of programs :P
03:41
@ASCII-only haskell is lazy
I think I will use j and k for vim cred
@Downgoat oh because when a == 1 and b == 1, a^2 + b^2 never equals c^2
@ASCII-only btw can we work on VSL rn
@Downgoat ok
@ASCII-only sometimes the hard part is ideas, sometimes the hard part is acting on the ideas when you finally get them
basically you just gotta try and sync up those issues so you have ideas and motivation at the same time
03:46
@Downgoat or if you don't want to add limits do recursive take i guess
btw the way I'm implementing functions is converting:
class A {
     func b() { ... }
}
into:
class A {
    static func b(self: A) { }
}
@DestructibleLemon my todo list right now for charcoal: port as many mathematica functions as possible to python (it's going to take a long time :( )
@Downgoat not this: A?
yeah, this is why you can't make a bunch
@ASCII-only I thought census was self
CMC: Implement function(a){return function(){return a}}
03:49
@Downgoat oh ok
@ATaco JavaScript (ES6), 7 bytes: $=>_=>$
That's a neat Emoticon, but where's the code?
@ATaco cheddar: a->->a
@ASCII-only why do you need to do that?
@Downgoat wat is dis witchcraft
03:53
do you use mathematica functions in it? wouldn't it be easier to just use mathematica or similar at this point?
@LeakyNun cheddar is majick
@Downgoat how do you even print in haskell
are these kinds of chains bad form (when making a lang interpreter in python)
while executing:
    if command == "k":
        row+=1
    elif command == "h":
        if row != 0: row-=1
        else: executing = False
    #[...]
³`k=#k works in the latest version Not on TIO for 6 bytes, too.
@LeakyNun print monad
03:56
@Downgoat borked
And ³y=#y works for 5 bytes, but only once.
@Downgoat wait so if you wanted to make a thing that returns a number you could do ->[number]
@LeakyNun add main function as entry point. e.g. main = print 5
@DestructibleLemon yes
@Downgoat kthx
can I have a command suggestion for gyre?
please suggest a command and the corresponding character
04:01
@DestructibleLemon goat built in, char: 🐐
yeah I was planning on not using unicode
also its dumb
@DestructibleLemon ascii is subset of unicode
@DestructibleLemon excuse me how dare you
it is
now, a sheep, maybe
but not a goat
okay now this is just downright blasphemy
@DestructibleLemon golfiness :P
04:03
yeah you might be better off using mathematica at this point
maybe just port the base code to mathematica
rather than mathematica builtins to python
IDK though, do what you want
anyway, any not dumb command suggestions?
(please use lowercase alphabet)
also I haven't decided the memory system yet
maybe it will be goat herd. with a goat herd, they are unordered. you can paint numbers on goats, you can check if a number is in the herd, you can add a digit to a number, you can remove goat (and its number) by feeding it to wolves
@Downgoat thoughts?
@DestructibleLemon What's gyre?
my new lang that I'm gonna make
it was that disk lang I was talking about earlier
I don't think I was there.
Is it an esolang or should it have more practical golfing commands?
esolang
2d lang
I haven't decided the memory system
n, immediately clear all memory (possible printing a representation to stderr)
n stands for nuke
04:27
I was gonna say no but then I realised that might actually be useful in some situations
w, wormhole. Move the IP to the other w. Exits with an error if there does not exist or there exist more than one other w.
it's a design choice that the ip only moves in and out of the disc
How does this disk thing work?
every step, the disc rotates a bit. this could be interpreted as the ip moving around the disc, but the fact of the matter is is that I want this movement to be mostly constant; no jumps forward or back
Can you get closer to/further away from the center of the disk?
What if you can reverse the disk's direction, but this causes some builtins to do the inverse of their normal function?
yeah, I considered that, but I kind of thought better of it
so there should probably be 8 movement chars
(2 of the main ones and 6 of the conditional ones)
And maybe a random one?
user165474
Someone please nuke this
Yes please, but I don't think the PPCG mods have power over there.
04:43
Trying too hard to be edgy :\
user165474
Well I think it'll only take one more redflag to get rid of it.
user165474
It's gotten quite a few from Smokey reports already.
Does Jelly have comments?
Why have comments when you can have a builtin instead
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Scott MilnerSolve Kirkman's (extended) Schoolgirl Problem For those of you who are unfamiliar, Kirkman's Schoolgirl Problem goes as follows: Fifteen young ladies in a school walk out three abreast for seven days in succession: it is required to arrange them daily so that no two shall walk twice abreast...

04:48
@WheatWizard no, iirc
 
1 hour later…
05:59
1
Q: Scramble words while preserving their outlines

AdámIt is well known that a text can still be read while the innards of its words have been scrambled, as long as their first and last letters plus their overall outlines remain constant. Given a text, scramble each word according to these rules: Scrambling must be (pseudo) random. A word is a sequ...

06:34
CMC: Just keep printing As, with no deliminator, forever.
@ATaco ><>, 6 bytes: 88*1+o
@Emigna "A"o 2 bytes shorter
@ATaco If I answer, I will have answered this too:
20
Q: Easier communication means faster coding means fewer coders means …

AdámMy father who was a really good APLer and taught me all the basics of APL (and much more), passed away on this day, five years ago. In preparation for 50 Years of APL, I found this patent letter (translated for the convenience of those who do not read Danish) for a handwritten logo. It explains a...

@KritixiLithos Right, ><> has strings :)
06:59
You can even do d5*o for the same byte count but without using strings.
07:13
@ATaco APL: →≢⍞←'A'
@Adám That only outputs the A once for me
Has anyone heard about #nuggsforcarter?
3.5 million retweets...
07:34
@KritixiLithos Try it online!
Ah, it works once I put it into a tradfn like in the TIO link
How does it work?
f(){for(;;)printf("A");}
Or same length
f(){for(;;)putchar(65);}
@Adám Some way to convert an APL program to a more verbose representation
@KritixiLithos ⍞←'A' prints an A without newlines, counts what was outputted (i.e. 1), and branches to that line.
Ooh, that's pretty neat
07:38
@ASCII-only You could replace every glyph with its name.
So, for example, how would I verbosify ⍳5?
Morning fellas
@KritixiLithos Try it online!
Well TBF this isn't replacing glyphs with their name, defining names to be glyphs.
I expected a built in thing :D
07:44
@betseg Why would one want that?
@betseg But it would be trivial to write a search-and-replace program which verbosifies APL just by substituting names for glyphs.
@Adám Here's where it gets all mixed up: Try it online!
@KritixiLithos just do signum←multiplied_by←×
@KritixiLithos Ah, you mean auto-translation to keywords?
I meant the operator overloading
@KritixiLithos Most pairs are well paired, so you can easily find a name that covers both.
But APL will always be better with 1-byte glyphs
07:51
@KritixiLithos Problems: × ≡ ≢ ∊ ∪ ,
Wow I really need to do some optimization on Braingolf's loops
@betseg We do have built-in ability to fully parenthesize tacit functions.
I wonder if re-writing the interpreter in C# would help
a 10000 iteration while loop times out on TIO
07:59
@Mayube Does braingolf have nested loops?
@KritixiLithos nope
holy crap it's timing out on a 3000 iteration loop
where is it on TIO?
It's not on TIO yet. The interpreter's written in Python3 so you can run that on TIO, which is what I do
interesting, it takes 31 seconds to do a 2000 iteration loop, but times out on a 2500 iteration loop
@Mayube Yeah but if it's badly optimized porting to another language isn't going to help much
@ASCII-only It'd be more a reimp than a port though
08:11
@Mayube well idk if you don't find the problem you run the risk of having the same problem after all the effort of reimplementing
How to verbosify the APL tacit function ` ⊢(/∘⊢⍨)2-0,2=/,`:
turn boxing on with ]box on -trains=parens
Enter the expression, this gives ⊢((/∘⊢)⍨)(2-(0,(2(=/),)))
Define the function Verbosify←'\( ' ' \)' ' '⎕R(,¨'() ')⍣≡(,¨'⊢/⍨-,=∘')⎕R(' ',¨'right' 'across' 'swap' 'minus' 'append' 'equals' 'tie',¨' ')
Run Verbosify '⊢((/∘⊢)⍨)(2-(0,(2(=/),)))'
Result:
 right ((across tie right) swap)(2 minus (0 append (2(equals across) append)))
Now that's readable, right? ;-)
eh kind of
"readable"
Then how do you "unverbosify"? ie remove unnecessary parentheses
If you want it to be executable too, just do right←⊢ ⋄ across←/ ⋄ swap←⍨ ⋄ minus←- ⋄ append←, ⋄ equals←= ⋄ tie←{⍺←⊢ ⋄ ⍺ ⍺⍺∘⍵⍵ ⍵}
08:21
@Adám 0/10 lisp is not readable
@ASCII-only -1/10 Lisp is totally readable
@Adám yeah I knew that
@KritixiLithos For most primitives you can just enter the verbose statement, and it will resolve. This doesn't work for dyadic operators, though.
@KritixiLithos Oh, remove the parens, yeah, John Scholes made a version of ]box that will remove unnecessary parens, but it hasn't been released yet.
But you guys are approaching this the wrong way. No-one (right?) would want to verbosify math. Could you imagine if your school math books had used words instead of symbols? APL is a mathematical notation, based on regular math, but with much less inconsistencies and ambiguity. It happens to be machine executable too.
This is why APL uses × for multiplication and ÷ for division. We don't want to substitute the proper mathematical symbols. Have a look at many calculators; the buttons say × and ÷, but the screen will show * and /. Why‽
@Adám That's why Java is blasphemous :P
@KritixiLithos Explain, please.
08:31
Java is verbose
I don't really think of Java and C# as "verbose" i think of them more as "structured". IMO a verbose language is one that tends to overuse keywords and looks like pseudocode as a result. Like VB
@Mayube ... pls use correct terminology
@Mayube 1. pseudocode is like Java/C# a lot of the time
APL can be "verbose" ("structured") too. These two functions are equivalent:
FibD←{{⍵,+/¯2↑⍵}⍣(⍵-1)⊢1}
@Mayube Plus they're not structured, they have way too much poilerplate
 r←FibT n;i
 r←1
 :For i :In ⍳n-1
     r,←+/¯2↑r
 :EndFor
@ASCII-only That's hairy.
08:58
@Christopher BTW your bounty expires in 1 hour
Is there a way to Ctrl+C in the Dyalog IDE?
@KritixiLithos You mean IDE or RIDE?
I think it's the RIDE
@KritixiLithos Why, doesn't your usual copy and paste commands work?
I don't know how to stop infinite loops other than force quitting the application
08:59
@KritixiLithos Oh, you mean break, not copy.
By Ctrl+C I meant "stop the currently running process"
@KritixiLithos My guess: Ctrl+Chift+C or Escape
maybe there's a shortcut in the application menus?
@ASCII-only Nope, none of those work
@KritixiLithos You should have a menu called Actions
Then Strong Interrupt or Weak Interrupt.
Strong interrupt works for me
09:01
@Adám Like SIGINT and SIGKILL?
I now mapped it to Ctrl+C
@betseg SIGINT and SIGQUIT.
09:40
Argh I hate C#'s style guide of { on a new line
09:58
@Qwerp-Derp Well, a benefit of using a compiled language is that no-one can tell what your whitespace looked like by looking at the finished product.
@Qwerp-Derp It's recommended code style, it's not mandatory
@ASCII-only Tell that to whoever it was complaining at me using semicolons in python :P
@Qwerp-Derp IMO it's fine as long as you stay consistent (e.g. JS has standard and semistandard)
@Mayube oh god you're doing what
@Mayube Please stop you're ruining all the things that Python stands for
@Mayube how to pronounce your name?
Anonymous
10:09
room topic changed to The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexchange.com | Guidelines: github.com/TheNineteenthByte/The-Nineteenth-Byte/blob/master/… (no tags)
Anonymous
Yes, that URL is ugly. No, it won't be staying.
@Christopher pls award bounty it ends in 1 minute
@ASCII-only Done
Anonymous
The new Chatiquette has been instated. Please take a few minutes to read it if you haven't yet, and feel free to continue to give feedback here.
21
@Mego e
Anonymous
10:13
@Adám Did I make a typo?
@Mego Now that I think about it, I don't think so. YOu probably wanted to show how the word chatiuette was made.
Anonymous
Yep, that was part of the original Chatiquette
@Mego Avoid posting messages that add nothing to the conversation (^, ಠ_ಠ, rofl, etc.). People often use carets to point at messages above. Is this not ok?
Would it help to make the second t non-bold too? Would that make it look more obviously deliberate?
IMO it should be okay, but not in excess (1 in every 10 messages maximum)
10:16
I posted my first answer to the Chinese Language Stack Exchange!
@Mego Consider creating a separate chatroom if a topic appears to be dominating Do you want to move the above APL discussions to the dedicated APL chat room?
Anonymous
@Adám If the message solely consists of a caret, the user should consider writing a more meaningful message instead. Like ASCII-only said, a single caret-only message isn't a problem - all things in moderation.
Anonymous
@Adám I don't consider that to be dominating the room. It's more relevant to PPCG than most other conversations in here tend to be.
Anonymous
@trichoplax The meta post has been up for 2 weeks and you people just now bring that up?
@Mego Don't post huge oneboxes Can I chose their size or decide what gets one-boxed?
10:19
@Adám Choose size? Not really. Decide? Yes, add extra text, or use a markdown link.
Anonymous
@Adám Onebox size is dependant on the size of the image/whatever being oneboxed. Wrapping the link in a description (using the [description](link) format) prevents oneboxing, and also gives more context.
@Mego I deliberately didn't mention it because I didn't see a problem as it is - only mentioning it now as someone has found it confusing. I still don't see it as important just thinking aloud really...
@Mego Only ping people to notify them of something that requires their attention, not every time you mention them. I use the link-to-message system so that it is clear what I'm answering or commenting on. This is especially important if multiple conversations are interleaved, or someone asked several questions before I had a chance to answer the first. However, this does cause lots of pinging. OK?
Anonymous
When a oneboxed message is posted, everyone in chat automatically downloads the image. For large images, that can take up quite a bit of bandwidth/data (especially for those on mobile or other not-great internet setups). It also takes up valuable screen space. We're just asking people to be courteous.
Anonymous
@trichoplax I was joking :P
10:21
Makes it easier for others to follow conversations later too.
@Mego Just making sure you didn't think I was strongly pushing for a trivial change :)
@trichoplax In my opinion it would be best to just mention that it is a portmanteau word made of the words "chat" and "etiquette", since I don't think there is a good way to bold the text.
I agree with ASCII-only.
@Mego Make sure to check often for bugs and regression!
Sometimes people ping others who aren't even in the room without reason, which can be annoying. I don't see using the reply feature as a problem unless a user explicitly asks not to be pinged
Anonymous
10:23
@Adám The reply system isn't the problem that is being addressed. The problem is when someone uses pings every message, when they're not necessary. An example would be pinging a user with every message, even when it's not directly relevant to them (like if we pinged Dennis every time we posted a TIO link (please don't do that)).
ok
Anonymous
Essentially the Chatiquette boils down to "use your best judgement and be courteous of others", but since just saying that didn't work, we made the guidelines more explicit.
@LeakyNun mai-oo-bey or mah-yoo-bey
@Mayube Oh, I thought it way May-You-Be
as a pun on Maybe
@Adám it is a pun of Maybe actually, but is pronounced Mai-oo-bey
10:29
@Mayube I just said it Maybe...
@Christopher I mean you can say it however the hell you want, Mai-oo-bey is just how I say it
@Mayube Sounds good.
5 characters left unassigned in printable ASCII in Aceto (agyGY). Ideas?
Generally when I say I was not thinking about anything it means that I am thinking about a answer I submitted and if it was upvoted :P
it originated from a drunk friend of mine typoing "Maybe" and me thinking "huh, that sounds like a japanese name" And so I jokingly went by Mayube-san for a while, and it just kinda stuck
10:37
@L3viathan Have one make memes.
useless trivia: c and g are the same letter, u and v and y are also the same letter
@L3viathan a=NAND
that does not sovnd aggurate.
@L3viathan g and G, put the top two stack items in ascending/descending order.
@Adám Then I'd also have to add NOR, XNOR, etc. bitwise NAND should be A~
@Adám Now that I like
10:41
cmc: proper divisor sum
positive proper divisors
Pretty sure Mathematiga has a built-in for that
@L3viathan y and Y, double/halve the top stack item.
12 gives 1+2+3+4+6 = 16
@Adám not sure.. Aceto is not a golfing language, on purpose.
@L3viathan Oh.
10:43
@L3viathan Quick storage sounds like a register
@ASCII-only It is
I think I'll make a bitwise negation
Anonymous
@LeakyNun Actually, 4 bytes: ÷dXΣ
@LeakyNun APL+AGL, 10: +/⍳é⍨0=⍳|⊢
Anonymous
Also 4 bytes in Actually: ;÷Σ-
2
Q: Am I outgolfed by Dennis?

SIGSEGV Legend says, Almost everyone is outgolfed by Dennis. If not, they will be. Now I'm curious if I'm one of those 'almost everyone'. You will be given a link to an answer in the format of https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/[QUESTION ID]/[QUESTION NAME]/#[ANSWER ID]. See the length of ...

2
11:03
@LeakyNun 05AB1E, 3 bytes: ѨO
@LeakyNun Brachylog, 3 bytes: fk+
@NewMainPosts yes.
user281949
11:46
@Riker wat is a sock
@HombaHelka Sock puppet (Alternate account, usually used either for malicious purposes (e.g. rep gain for main account), or to run a chatbot)
user281949
@ASCII-only oh
@HombaHelka ?? Are you a new account
@HombaHelka You're a sock, right?
@Upgoat Oh man, sockception.
@EriktheOutgolfer Apparently not
11:51
@EriktheOutgolfer What is a sock?
@Downgoat ^ Is that you?
user281949
@Qwerp-Derp yes
@Upgoat An account made by a pre-existing user of SE.
OMG people stop making these confusing negative accounts
@EriktheOutgolfer Definitely not, Downgoat already has one plus he's not awake rn
user281949
11:52
@EriktheOutgolfer no
@EriktheOutgolfer Hmm seems more like Homba's sock
Yeah's that's what I thought.
Homba Helka and Upgoat are the same person AFAICT.
@EriktheOutgolfer no
(did upgoat just respond to a question addressed to downgoat?)
upgoat is sock conf1rmed
@Upgoat @HombaHelka If you two are the same people, please change your names, it's confusing
Even if you are different people still change your names
11:55
@DestructibleLemon You mean that Downgoat, Upgoat and Homba Helka are the same person?
@EriktheOutgolfer Upgoat is Downgoat sock, and Homba Helka is Helka Homba sock
Wait, what?
14 hours ago, by Helka Homba
@HombaHelka is not me
ITS EVEN ON THE STAR BOARD INEXPLICABLY
Please don't use excessive caps.
11:57
These socks are CONFUSING! Are they socks or not?? I have no idea...
I think mods can see IPs, but rn I don't think there's an active mod around.

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