The Nineteenth Byte

Riker

19:01

oh, typo

@flawr really? no builtin square func? huh

@flawr wait, was that manual? lol

translate: mal

(from German) times

:p

AdmBorkBork

So, mal mal would be bad times?

Riker

prolly

polyglots ftw

flawr

@Riker :D

Riker

:p

for later reference: automatic ones have 2 messages, the translation is it's own msg

flawr

@Riker that should return the product of 1,2,3,...,input Try it online!

Riker

19:04

hm, okay

betseg

translate: mal
(from Turkish) goods

Riker

translate fr: mal

(from German) fois

...?

translate french: mal

flawr

that was german to french=)

Riker

oh, lol

Down Wat

@Riker afaik evil

flawr

19:07

traduis fr: mal
(de l'allemand): fois

betseg

fun fact: Turkish got the word for "German" from French, "Alman"

flawr

why not the other way around?

Riker

@DownWat no we know what it means

Down Wat

ah

Riker

it was just trying to get from french

it shows as german

translate: mal

(from German) times

see?

Down Wat

19:11

Also, what do you think of my new username?

flawr

@betseg there is actually a whole collection of german dialects (including some swiss german dialects) that are called alemannisch (see alemannic)

Down Wat

@Downgoat and @DownChristopher would probably appreciate it

flawr

(probably originates from the Alemannen tribe)

betseg

well the Turkish Language Institution says that the word is from French

flawr

I bet the french lied to them

Riker

19:16

@DownWat it's so overused now

@DownWat I don't think the goat really cares.

he just has it for a name, he didn't change it because of an overused joke

flawr

@DownWat Suggestion: Rename yourself to @UpTat

TuxCopter

Another suggestion: UpOhm

flawr

UpOm

you'd nee to delete the h to be consistent=)

TuxCopter

Right

flawr

but I like your thinking=)

Pavel

19:19

@DownWat ಠ_ಠ

betseg

UpMho for 1/ohm?

flawr

That is too close to DownOhm

betseg

Thatsthejoke.pngif

5

AdmBorkBork

InverseOhm

flawr

haha, pngif XD

Pavel

19:21

.pngif is my new favorite file extension

TuxCopter

CMC: Design a spec for an image format called PNGIF

Poke

jpngif

flawr

jpngif

:)

Pavel

Ninjas

betseg

@TuxCopter apng

Poke

19:22

add an f for tiff

no idea how to fit bmp

Pavel

Also .svg

betseg

bmpngif

TuxCopter

.jpnsvgtiff

betseg

I think that's enough

Pavel

bmpngiffvg

Because gifvy?

betseg

19:24

I don't want those messages to end up in the trash ._.

Pavel

@Mods trust us we are having thoughtful discussion here not spam 100% guarantee

AdmBorkBork

@TuxCopter Isn't there a PNG format that specifies a sequence of images like a GIF?

TuxCopter

Yea, it's APNG

betseg

3 mins ago, by betseg

@TuxCopter apng

AdmBorkBork

Right. Well. That's what happens when I don't read the entire context.

AdmBorkBork

19:38

Dang, I have a sad. My HNQ-bait subject line didn't pick up any fishes.

Pavel

Oh?

AdmBorkBork

"Working on my Knight moves"

Pavel

I don't think cheesing your wy to HNQ should be a goal.

mbomb007

I really want a popcorn popcon now...

AdmBorkBork

@Pavel Well, of course not. But it's a fun experiment.

mbomb007

19:43

CMC: Make a popcon about popcorn that doesn't get closed.

betseg

> mini challenge

mbomb007

Not this one. It's a Chat Macro Challenge

betseg

kk

Pavel

CMC: decision-problem determine if the program is being run with root permissions.

flawr

too many assumptions about the language and the operating system

Okx

19:46

@Pavel do you want a truthy/falsy value or two different outputs to determine?

AdmBorkBork

@Pavel DOS BATCH, 7 bytes -- @echo 1

betseg

Bash, 5 bytes: id -u prints a 0 for root, another value for non-root

PhiNotPi

Chat macro challenge: write a macro that does ______

Pavel

@Okx At least one unique output for either true or false, and anything else otherwise.

betseg

@PhiNotPi #define a(b)puts(b)

Made a C preprocessor macro that prints the input

TuxCopter

19:49

@PhiNotPi #define a ______

Expads to ______, so I guess it "does" it

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi qq<C-w>v<C-w>n@qq@q

It's a vim macro that makes a fractal in your window

betseg

@DJMcMayhem thats actually cool

except it lags and stuff

DJMcMayhem

Did you run it?

betseg

yes

TuxCopter

@DJMcMayhem That's awesome

DJMcMayhem

19:51

Then after that, do qqqqq:q!<cr>@qq@q

Pavel

How do I start vim without loading any plugins/previous work?

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel vim -u NONE -i NONE

Pavel

ty

betseg

@DJMcMayhem its too fast :(

any way to slow it down?

Poke

what did it do

it's gone

DJMcMayhem

19:52

@betseg Sure. qqqqq:q!<cr>gs@qq@q

Poke

it exited everything

got it

DJMcMayhem

Screenshot for those who don't have vim/don't feel like testing it:

Pavel

I get an ERROR: NO ROOM

oic that's intended

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, that's expected

That's what breaks the macro, otherwise it would run forever

Pavel

Wait, you run Vim on Windows?

Huh

DJMcMayhem

19:55

I run everything on windows

Riker

@DJMcMayhem cr?

what's that

Pavel

@Riker enter

TuxCopter

@Riker Carriage return

ie enter

Riker

ah

DJMcMayhem

Carriage return/enter

TuxCopter

19:56

ninja'd and ninja'd again

:O

Pavel

Can someone smarter than me explain Jetbrains MPS? It seems super cool but I have no idea what it does.

TuxCopter

@Pavel It seems like a framework to make DSLs

Pavel

I don't know what a DSL is though

It's weird

TuxCopter

Domain-Specific Language

Pavel

> DSL may also refer to:
> Damn Small Linux, a very small Linux distribution

Thanks Wikipedia

betseg

20:01

woah, that website looks cool and opens fast

Pavel

What website?

betseg

jetbrains mps

Pavel

Like I said, it seems super cool

I wonder if I can make golfing langs with it.

mınxomaτ

Sure

Pavel

I mean, yeah I probably can, I wonder if that will actually make it easier.

mınxomaτ

20:06

If there's a DSL close to your needs. Otherwise, the common one-identifier-per-char golf lang is probably easier to do from scratch.

Pavel

Ok, so MPS allows you describe a language and it generates a transpiler from that language to JS/JVM. That's awesome.

mınxomaτ

We recently got a JetBrains license server license (no typo). Now everyone can use all the products. Specifically, CLion and Rider. So good.

Now they just need a Rust IDE.

Comrade SparklePony

Esolangs.org has an expired certificate, if anyone knows how to fix that.

mınxomaτ

Probably ais

But esolangs is not TLS by default.

Riker

@ComradeSparklePony no it doesn't?

mınxomaτ

20:14

@Riker Yes it does.

Riker

no-repro

mınxomaτ

> This server could not prove that it is esolangs.org; its security certificate expired yesterday. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection. Your computer's clock is currently set to Tuesday, April 11, 2017.

It's 10.15 pm here btw.

Riker

AdmBorkBork

@mınxomaτ Related, Microsoft used to have a certification program for licensing. I don't think they do any longer.

mınxomaτ

@Riker You're not on the HTTPS site genius :P

Riker

20:16

yeah, that's what I mean

it's not a https for me

mınxomaτ

3 mins ago, by mınxomaτ

But esolangs is not TLS by default.

Comrade SparklePony

Riker

that redirects to the main thing for me

manually typing https:// in front of teh url I mean

mınxomaτ

@Riker Then why would you say it doesn't have an expired cert. You wouldn't know.

Riker

oh, true

I thought it didn't because it didn't error

but yeah, it doesn't confirm either

mınxomaτ

20:17

It's objectively expired: ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=esolangs.org

@Riker It confirms that you have a redirect that doesn't exist on the server.

Riker

what

mınxomaτ

There's no redirect on the SSL version.

Riker

maybe caching?

AdmBorkBork

How the deuce do you actually view the certificate in Chrome? In IE it's as simple as right-click the padlock (or open padlock, if it's broken) and "View Certificate."

mınxomaτ

{ ~ }  » curl -I esolangs.org
curl: (60) SSL certificate problem: certificate has expired
More details here: curl.haxx.se/docs/sslcerts.html

{ ~ }  » curl -Ik esolangs.org
HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily
Server: nginx/1.6.2
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:19:53 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 160
Location: esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
Connection: keep-alive

Notice the 302 points at TLS, not non-TLS

When in doubt, curl :). No cache, no cookies.

betseg

20:22

@AdmBorkBork from the inspect menu

AdmBorkBork

FFS, that's nice and buried.

New Main Posts

-1

Q: Maximum Move in a maze with given directions

Given a N*N maze, and string of N,E,W,S denoting positions to move to. I need to determine how many moves are possible in sequence out of a string (containing these 4 letters only). For eg- If string is NNN ,and I can only move 1 step up,that means answer for that cell is 1. If for another cell...

Poke

@AdmBorkBork yeah i really dislike the change

i guess they think more people might click in the url bar now that non-https is marked "Not Secure"

and viewing cert details will confuse the average user

some nonsense like that

Downgoat

20:43

@DownWat 10/10 quality username

betseg

CMC: find 3 numbers such that |(|a-b|-|b-c|)| = (a/b)/(b/c)) (or is it possible?) (or inverse of the right side) (see the message on Sandbox for $\LaTeX$)

Pavel

@betseg Or just insert the $\LaTeX$ in here.

mınxomaτ

$user image$

betseg

@Pavel some people dont use $\LaTeX$

Comrade SparklePony

Pavel

20:53

/sigh

ATaco

@betseg Look at it, it's an image.

Comrade SparklePony

@betseg Wolfram alpha.

Pavel

That's cheating

Also, I think you're supposed to solve over the Integers

betseg

huh, it returned nothing useful for me

ATaco

betseg

20:56

forgot to add that they should be different :p

AdmBorkBork

b=0.9999999... ;-)

betseg

then theyre the same?

:p

ATaco

I already solved it once, screw it.

New Main Posts

0

Q: Charlie and the evil hyphen

Here's the phonetic alphabet: Alfa Bravo Charlie Delta Echo Foxtrot Golf Hotel India Juliett Kilo Lima Mike November Oscar Papa Quebec Romeo Sierra Tango Uniform Victor Whiskey X-ray Yankee Zulu In the fewest bytes possible: Remove the first letter of each word. Shuffle the word order. Someh...

code-golf data-structures

Riker

@flawr

ATaco

21:15

0,4,2,6 works.

flawr

@Riker neither rim nor shot

Riker

:p

flawr

0/7 can't hear a thing

DJMcMayhem

The top 15 flaggers on PPCG:

Rank    User                Helpful Flags
1       ProgramFOX          440
2       Mego                382
3       Stewie Griffin      214
4       Erik the Outgolfer  161
5       DJMcMayhem          155
6       Martin Ender        146
7       Helka Homba         149
8       Peter Taylor        128
9       Flawr               114
10      Downgoat            111
11      mbomb007            111
12      Muddyfish           99
13      Gerry               94
14      Riker               88
15      msh210              84

@Mego ^ Just in case you wanted to see the rankings

Anonymous

Interesting

Anonymous

21:24

That isn't at all what I expected the rankings to be

DJMcMayhem

Everyone else is currently below 80

@Mego What were you expecting?

Pavel

I think I have around 15

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem I'm not sure, but not that :P

flawr

@DJMcMayhem what kind of flags does it include?

Anonymous

Any and all that are marked helpful

DJMcMayhem

21:26

^

Pavel

Didn't expect Martin to be up there, considering he can hammer things and not flag them.

DJMcMayhem

Except for meta and chat flags I guess

@Pavel He was a very active user for a long time before mod-hood

Pavel

I thought he was in the original PPCG mods before the first election.

DJMcMayhem

Nope. The original are all no longer active

Anonymous

He was a pro-tem mod, but he was only appointed like a year or two before the end of beta

DJMcMayhem

21:28

Dmkcee, Gnibbler, and Christ Jester Young

betseg

21:38

good night

mbomb007

@betseg g'night

New Sandboxed Posts

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Brainflak Multiplication Metagolf This question is a Brain-flak Birthday challenge and will be posted on April 27th Last summer we had the Brain-flak Integer Metagolf, and the answers it generated have been very useful to the Brain-Flak community since. The main thing that makes the Integer Me...

mbomb007

@DJMcMayhem Oh dang, I'm tied with Downgoat.

Downgoat

@mbomb007 brb fixing

mbomb007

I gotta fix that.

@DJMcMayhem What are the rankings for votes cast?

Also, I know that I'm ranked #2 for posts edited, so that'd be an interesting set of rankings to see, as well.

(Only Martin and I have the Copy Editor badge)

DJMcMayhem

21:54

@mbomb007 That one actually has a ranking, so it's easier to find: codegolf.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Voters&filter=all

The other one had to be done manually

For whatever reason, this guy has no participation except for a ridiculous amount of votes:

gnat

101 1 2 4

And fanatic

New Main Posts

2

Q: Cyclic Levenquine

Background As most PPCG regulars will know, a quine is a program which outputs its own source code when run; and the Levenshtein distance between two strings is the minimum number of insertions, deletions, and edits needed to change one string into the other. In this challenge, we're combining t...

code-golf restricted-source quine

mbomb007

@DJMcMayhem Huh. I'm 37th.

Dennis

@Mego Deleted, actually. Letting an underage participate is not the problem; storing their email address is.

DJMcMayhem

@mbomb007 I'm 34th apparently

mbomb007

@NewMainPosts Maybe a solution in Headsecks would be possible?

Then you could encode its source and "increment" by 8 mod 256

Uriel

22:02

@mbomb007 can it go forever? does unicode have some limitation?

ASCII-only

> Additionally, at some point, the sequence of repeatedly running the program, running its output, running its output's output, etc. must eventually come back to the original program.

Also yes, Unicode doesn't have infinite characters

Conor O'Brien

22:18

@Riker no it does not have to be TC, but be aware that if it isn't, it might not be able to compete in the randomly selected challenge

Dennis

22:39

@Timtech @WheatWizard @Riker v

@mbomb007 REPL answers are allowed, but they're considered a separate language. — Dennis ♦ 3 mins ago

I'm not happy with that consensus (I've downvoted it myself), but it is what it is.

trichoplax

Feedback was requested on this month-old sandbox post earlier but it seems to have been overlooked. Thought I'd mention it since it sounds potentially interesting:

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sort a vector using the least amount of reversals optimization, code-challenge This is a code-challenge where the objective is to sort a vector into ascending order using the fewest operations. Your algorithm can only sort the vector using subvector reversals, but it can use other operations fo...

(and also sounds difficult to get right as a challenge, so more in need of feedback than average)

Conor O'Brien

@Dennis I haven't voted in it because I'm torn. I don't want people to golf solely in REPL, but I also thing have REPL allows for some languages to "essentially" compete in otherwise hard challenges, such as restricted-source questions

ais523

22:59

@Dennis out of interest, what's your personal opinion on the subject?

I also think that there's two different sorts of REPL answers:

* the answer is typed into the REPL, and it then does I/O the way a normal program would;
* the answer is typed into the REPL, returning to the REPL prompt; the user input is also then input at the REPL prompt (i.e. the answer changes the REPL into a solution to the challenge)

I'm not sure if we're drawing a distinction at the moment

Dennis

@ais523 Hard to say. Some languages exist solely as REPLs, so we'd probably need an exception for those. But if a language can be invoked as a full program or supports functions, REPL answers in that language shouldn't be allowed imho.

ais523

hmm, there are edge cases even to that, like Prolog

luckily it supports functions

but it doesn't really support full programs; you can simulate them by writing custom initialisation code and then crashing the program during it, so that the REPL part of it never gets to run, but I'm not sure that counts

Dennis

I won't pretend having the slightest clue about Prolog.

@ais523 At least swipl seems to support programs though. github.com/TryItOnline/arena-server/blob/master/wrappers/…

ais523

23:14

that appears to be a REPL: Try it online!

you can see that the input here is a Prolog program that calls a function, not something like a string or an integer

or I guess it's a REP, because it only runs the command specified, rather than asking for another

0 '

Hmmm... it appears it is still possible to post new community ads for 2016

fəˈnɛtɪk

@0 ' we need those 2016 ads

Conor O'Brien

@DJMcMayhem @BrainFlakUsers - I'm writing an article on brain-flak. How do I output something? >_> I tried running this, which of course outputted nothing.

Dennis

What are you trying to output?

0 '

@ConorO'Brien There is no explicit output functionality in Brain-Flak. At the end of the program execution all the contents of the active stack are printed starting at the top

Dennis

23:23

({}) prints 0.

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien Woah, cool! What are you writing it for?

Also, like others have said, to print something, push it onto the active stack

Timtech

@Dennis Why exactly was I tagged in that? Just wondering

I think that all of my posted TI-Basic scripts are full programs

Dennis

Because you cast one of the delete votes.

Wheat Wizard

@Timtech follow the link Dennis is quoting

Conor O'Brien

@0 ' so why doesn't my link work?

@DJMcMayhem the unofficial ppcg blog :P nothing too spectactular

Wheat Wizard

23:33

@ConorO'Brien () does nothing on its own. A second () also does nothing, and the {} pops a value but because there is nothing on the stack it behaves as a no-op.

What are you trying to do?

Conor O'Brien

just trying to get a feel for the language

the docs say each evaluate to 1 tho?

> These are concatenated together when they are evaluated. So if we had a '3' on top of the active stack, this snippet:

()(){}

would evaluate to 1 + 1 + active.pop() which would evaluate to 5.

Wheat Wizard

Yes

Conor O'Brien

oh wait nvm

you need (...) to push

Wheat Wizard

Yes. (), [], <...>, and [...] will not do anything on they are own

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien They do. So the whole thing evaluates to 1 + 1 + pop() but then nothing is done with that value

Conor O'Brien

23:36

ok, cool. thanks :D

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien That's funny timing:

reddit.com/r/ppcg/comments/63tyrh/comment/dfyspq4

Conor O'Brien

oh >_>

I haven't been following the reddit lately

DJMcMayhem

I haven't either

Wheat Wizard

@ConorO'Brien Our favorite beginner's task for anyone learning Brain-Flak is to write a multiplication program.

Conor O'Brien

oh geez... let me try addition first >_>

DJMcMayhem

23:38

Addition is a good first

Counting from input to 0 is a good second

Multiplication is a good third

Conor O'Brien

k, thanks! is there a brain-flak room?

Wheat Wizard

The Third Stack

A chat room for discussing the Brain-Flak programming language...

DJMcMayhem

The Third Stack

A chat room for discussing the Brain-Flak programming language...

Conor O'Brien

hahaha awesome name

DJMcMayhem

Ninja'd

Thanks :D

It's inspired by this:

4

A: Tips for Golfing in Brain-Flak

Use the Third Stack If you have read the title you might be a bit confused. Surely there are only two stacks in Brain-Flak? However I assure you that it exists and it is one of the most powerful if not the most powerful tool in writing and golfing Brain-Flak. What is the "Third Stack"? Eve...

ATaco

23:42

I'm working on a service to provide SVG images based on Math.JS functions.

That's f(x)=pow(x,2)

ASCII-only

@ATaco nice

Downgoat

huh cool

ATaco

That's intentional, because adding a .svg causes problems.

Downgoat

maybe axis marks/scale would be nice

ASCII-only

@ATaco trailing & is weird though, trim .svg off if it exists before passing to math.js

ATaco

23:44

I just need to make it stop trying to parse the .svg, that's all.

I'm aware.

Downgoat

Wait what how did you get SE to display SVG

ASCII-only

@Downgoat SE automatically oneboxes svg

Downgoat

O_o since when

Conor O'Brien

@DJMcMayhem ok well my mind is basically broken after reading that

DJMcMayhem

Does it make sense though?

I think one way that is more easily intuitive is The accumulator

Conor O'Brien

23:55

I do think I understand it. Utilizing it is a whole different animal

DJMcMayhem

So () increments The accumulator, and (...) returns The accumulator from the inside

Wheat Wizard

The third stack is really a high level concept I would avoid thinking about it until you have mastered the basics.

Conor O'Brien

sounds good lol

DJMcMayhem

Which is why ((()()())()) would push 3, 4

The Third Stack

The Third Stack

Transcript for