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12:06 AM
@Qwerp-Derp ??
 
It was the game thing I told you about
 
What do you think?
My laptop is screwed for some reason
Also I kinda want to make a KoTH out of the game thing
 
IDK
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ ????
 
Might as well send along some CIA guys while you're at it.
 
12:17 AM
What is happening right now?
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

xnorDisplay a squared square code-golf Squaring the square is the challenge of making a square out of smaller squares whose side lengths are all distinct whole numbers. The smallest example splits square of size 112 into 24 squares. Your goal is to output any squared square. You can do this as ...

 
12:42 AM
Fun fact: This weekend, I'll be turning O(1)
 
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ wat
 
1:16 AM
>this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth.
 
1:35 AM
Fun fact #2: A Planck time is ~53.9116 rentedekoseconds
 
1:53 AM
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ rentedekoseconds?
 
2:12 AM
^ rentedekoseconds is not a thing apparently
 
wat
Trying to put all of Materialize framwork in an ebay listing.
Just because.
 
@wat really?
@Downgoat did you do the nsa station thing?
 
NSA Station?
oh
no
I have a bunch of smart home things which would of gone crazy if I changed it
 
wat
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yeah
it's no letting me save it though
 
0
Q: 3... 2... 1... Crash off!

Challenger5Your task is to write a program that will continue to count down from 10 every time it is run. The first time you run the program, it should print 10. The next time, it should output 9. The next time, it should output 8, and so on. Instead of printing 0, the program should crash. You do not hav...

 
wat
2:24 AM
says I need to remove includes
I already bastardized materialize by removing all the replace invocations
 
wat
2:43 AM
These are the weirdest pings ever
~ % ping inventory.local
PING inventory.local (10.10.10.107) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from inventory.local (10.10.10.107): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=4.25 ms
64 bytes from inventory.local (10.10.10.107): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=53.0 ms
64 bytes from inventory.local (10.10.10.107): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.988 ms
64 bytes from inventory.local (10.10.10.107): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=85.5 ms
64 bytes from inventory.local (10.10.10.107): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.884 ms
64 bytes from inventory.local (10.10.10.107): icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=1.03 ms
 
2:57 AM
A sheep–goat hybrid (sometimes called a geep or shoat in popular media) is the hybrid offspring of a sheep and a goat. Although sheep and goats seem similar and can be mated, they belong to different genera in the subfamily Caprinae of the family Bovidae. Sheep belong to the genus Ovis and have 54 chromosomes, while goats belong to the genus Capra and have 60 chromosomes. The offspring of a sheep-goat pairing is generally stillborn. Despite widespread shared pasturing of goats and sheep, hybrids are very rare, indicating the genetic distance between the two species. Though sometimes called "geep...
This is definition of blasphemy
 
CMC: powerset
 
A sheep–goat chimera (sometimes called a geep in popular media) is a chimera produced by combining the embryos of a goat and a sheep; the resulting animal has cells of both sheep and goat origin. A sheep-goat chimera should not be confused with a sheep-goat hybrid, which can result when a goat mates with a sheep. == History == The first sheep-goat chimeras were created by researchers at the Institute of Animal Physiology in Cambridge, England by combining sheep embryos with goat embryos. They reported their results in 1984. The successful chimeras were a mosaic of goat and sheep tissue. The parts...
@Downgoat ^ blasphemy++
 
Has anyone else had problems with the site's JS and CSS recently? It's loading as plain HTML for me. Tested on two different computers, using Chrome, Firefox, and IE. I can give screenshot/paste of error messages if helpful.
 
@DLosc I've seen that happen before, but not recently.
 
The problem affects all StackExchange sites I've tried--except for the main Meta. 0_o
And chat is fine too, of course.
 
3:13 AM
> Due to the fact that the last half of its name is often considered one of the most offensive words in the English language, it is sometimes referred to as brainf***, brainfck, brainfsck, b****fuck, brainf*k or BF.
> b****fuck
 
brainsuck
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ oh shit, we shouldn't use ******* like that in a PG room :P
 
lel
> Stage III: Bargaining
that revision note though
 
> and pinned this message
-1 cheating
 
wat
3:28 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ use the fucking backslash
**
*hello*world*
\*hello\*world\*
 
@wat calm down
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC See:
SI:
10^  0   unit
10^- 3 m milli-
10^- 6 μ micro-
10^- 9 n nano-
10^-12 p pico-
10^-15 f femto-
10^-18 a atto-
10^-21 z zepto-
10^-24 y yocto-
Proposed:
10^-27 x xenno-
10^-30 w weko-
10^-33 v vendeko-
Extended by me:
10^-36 u udeko-
10^-39 t triadeko-
10^-42 s sessaradeko-
10^-45 r rentedeko-
10^-48 q quexadeko-
 
Extended by me:
10^-51 g goatdeko-
10^-54 b bleeeeet-
10^-57 h baaaaaah-
 
wat
Can you assume that the program is named a certain way, as in this answer:
0
A: 3... 2... 1... Crash off!

Conor O'BrienRuby, 52 + 1 = 53 bytes Assumes the file is named a (+1 byte). q=File.read ?a 0/h=62-q.size p h File.write ?a,q+?1# Running C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming λ type a q=File.read ?a 0/h=62-q.size p h File.write ?a,q+?1# C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming λ ruby a 10 C:\...

 
3:44 AM
@ConorO'Brien I'll check it out later. No Jolf on my phone...
 
@Dennis oh, RIP
@wat I did, for a byte
I'm pretty sure that's consensus somewhere
 
.oO(Hosting Jolf on TIO would fix that.)
 
Jolf is horribly written in browser-side JS and I can't rewrite until I'm inspired and until after finals :P
 
wat
dont think you can
@ConorO'Brien I don't think you can do that
 
Pretty sure it's fine. Only way to recurse in Batch IIRC
 
3:48 AM
well you can do $0 in batch
 
-1 I think this is completely fine, but if you are using the filename, then it has to count to the bytecount as well, just like any other non-standard parameter you have to specify in the command line / shebang. — SztupY Feb 25 '14 at 14:06
Just a comment, but 192 upvotes might be enough to consider it consensus.
 
that's more than twice the net of the answer
o_O
 
wat
ok sure, i'll optimize my code to adjust
 
4:06 AM
apparently in CSS 33% means 25%
I am very confused rn
how can 4 items with width: 33% fit .__.
 
Anonymous
@Downgoat Because the rendering engine sees that you put 4 items with 33% width, assumes you don't know what you're doing, and makes it 25%
 
CMC: most populus element in a list (e.g. element with most occurances)
 
@Mego that makes no sense
not to my understanding of CSS box model
 
Anonymous
@Downgoat You really shouldn't be taking my explanations seriously :)
 
Anyway, I found solution: CSS is super-weird and it should be burned, discarded, and burned yet again
2
 
4:17 AM
^
 
Google did a thing: google.com/webdesigner
 
Totally random: amazon product description switches products halfway through: amazon.com/Directed-Electronics-P3500-Xpress-Actuator/dp/…
> Controls the vehicles proper non-electrical door locks
> Includes extra ear buds for maximum comfort
 
@mınxomaτ eh, not super-new. There have been very similar tools for years
 
So?
 
Anonymous
@ConorO'Brien Actually, 15 bytes: ;;╗`╜c`MZ♂#SMiX. It would be shorter except bugs galore that I haven't managed to track down yet.
 
4:25 AM
:/ why can't height: inherit just inherit the height. I can't think of a single time that did what it actually says
brb sending strongly worded letter to whoever designed CSS
 
Anonymous
@Downgoat Good luck getting the formatting right
 
@KritixiLithos I managed to do a bottle flip with an empty bottle on relatively thick carpet. Probably took me like a hundred flips or so... :P
 
wat
@ConorO'Brien Ruby: ->l{m={};l.map{|i|m[i] ? m[i]=0 : m[i]+=1};m}
@mınxomaτ wat
 
:O I actually for formatting to work
 
wat
@Downgoat i think you accidentally a word
 
4:37 AM
yyiisssssss
look at that alignment
it is beautiful
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Super ChafouinRepeat after me Given a string as argument, output the length of the longest(s) repeated substring(s) or zero if there is no such string. Examples abcdefabc : abc is repeated at position 1 and 7, so the program should output 3 aaaaaaa : aaa is repeated at position 1 and 4, so the program shou...

 
wat
4:52 AM
@Downgoat i hate node
rails > node
 
@wat do you even know node
Anyway you can change the language anyways
 
wat
5:08 AM
@Downgoat I don't know the system but after first hearing about it I was extremely turned off
I wish browsers supported in-browser Ruby scripting
Javascript is terrible
 
@wat haha of course
 
6:10 AM
@Dennis When you say "a full program is required", would a function suffice? codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/103297/61613
 
@obarakon nope
 
@DestructibleWatermelon Then what does a full JavaScript program entail? Script tags?
 
um...
let me just go get a javascript answer
@obarakon well, a program you just run
with input I guess
 
6:26 AM
@DestructibleWatermelon So a function then...?
 
no...
a function is just a literal or declaration of a variable
to call a function, you need to do f(input()) or something
sometimes you can use functions, but not for that one
also you have used neither a full program or a function...
also your answer is invalid...?
 
@DestructibleWatermelon I know I didn't create a function, that's why I'm asking for clarification. Aside from that, how is my answer invalid?
 
well
you aren't supposed to put the code in a loop
it should actually be writing to a file or something
so that each time it runs it does something different
 
@DestructibleWatermelon Are you referring to my Demo? That's in a loop to run the program 10 times.
 
still not going to work though...
 
6:33 AM
It works fine on my end.
 
if i run x=typeof x!=typeof 1?10:x!=1?x-=1:_, then run it again. as far as I can see it will do the same thing
 
x decrements when I run it multiple times.
 
Oh
wait, this is repl isn't it
 
repl?
I'm running it in the Chrome Dev Tools
 
that's like doing a python answer try:x-=1\n except: x=10\n 1/x;print(x);
and using the repl
it's actually just accessing the same variable
and adding the new code at the end of previously executed code
pretty much you just run 1 program that consists of the same thing 10 times
@obarakon pretty much an repl
 
6:39 AM
So you're expecting I run a program, restart my computer, re-run the program, and get a different result?
 
nope
just asking that you actually run the program again, rather than running from the same program state
example:
if I run program x="hi", does nothing
 
Can we pick this up later, it's very late. Maybe you're 100% correct and I'm too tired to follow.
 
but if I then run print(x), it shouldn't print hi
or whatever. I'm using python stuff, instead of those annoying javascript output things
@obarakon definitely repl
 
I still don't know what repl is
 
also not gonna be a valid repl program either...
@obarakon read eval print loop
read line (example "hi"+"!")
eval ("hi!")
print (output "hi!")
loop
continue doing this
 
6:43 AM
Just link the wiki page
A read–eval–print loop (REPL), also known as an interactive toplevel or language shell, is a simple, interactive computer programming environment that takes single user inputs (i.e. single expressions), evaluates them, and returns the result to the user; a program written in a REPL environment is executed piecewise. The term is most usually used to refer to programming interfaces similar to the classic Lisp machine interactive environment. Common examples include command line shells and similar environments for programming languages, and is particularly characteristic of scripting languages. ...
 
Thanks, I'll take a look at that tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback, I'll fix it up tomorrow.
 
wat
7:02 AM
[Joke about the top and bottom points on a globe and residents of Poland]
 
0
Q: Array alignment addition

ZgarbIntroduction Consider two non-empty integer arrays, say A = [0 3 2 2 8 4] and B = [7 8 7 2]. To perform alignment addition on them, we do the following: Repeat each array enough times to have total length lcm(length(A), length(B)). Here lcm stands for lowest common multiple. A -> [0 3 2 2 8 ...

 
7:18 AM
One of the most above and beyond answers ever: askubuntu.com/a/316029
 
7:45 AM
@El'endiaStarman It was my second try that landed the bottle on the cupboard upside down :)
 
wat
@KritixiLithos wtf is with that bottleflip thing
 
What do you mean?
 
If you don't understand, that's good. It means you aren't infected.
 
wat
8:15 AM
...wot
isn't email speed directly dependent on network speed?
also I think they misspelled "word problem" as "work problem"
 
@wat I guess the computers also write the emails. :P
 
 
1 hour later…
9:42 AM
GitHub lost $66 million in nine months of 2016, financial documents show.
 
They didn't make enough money. Bloomberg has more details: bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/…
 
They should check the couch cushions.
 
They had $66M in the first place?
 
$66M is not very much in a VC funded world.
It's a tiny fraction of their value. Not a reason for any investor to pull out.
 
9:45 AM
@Zgarb How do I subtract the same number of all numbers in a list?
obviously map (-k) list doesn't work...
 
Why not? Does it need to be ((-)k) instead of (-k)?
Oh, it should be ((+) -k).
 
no, ((-)k basicall is the functio x -> k-x
well you can also write (+(-k)) but both do not seem very elegant....
I think that is the problem of the unary -, they should have used another symbol for that
 
If you don't like that there's the flip function...
 
map (flip (-) k) list?
0
Q: elegant way to subtract a number of every list element

flawrI recently ran into following problem: Given a list of numbers, I want to subtract a constant from every entry of this list. The natural but wrong thing to do is map (-3) [5,6,7] Here the - is not interpreted a binary function but as an unary negation operator. I found following workarounds: ...

 
Something like that.. I can't actually write Haskell.
 
9:57 AM
you should learn it then=)
I'm still pretty much a beginner but it is such a fun language (except for the -)
 
I learned OCaml which is like the same but without golfy operators or category theory.
 
:)
 
0
Q: It's almost Chistmas!

GreyIt's almost Christmas! because of this, families from all over the world are building christmas trees. But this normal tree can get boring after a while. so let's make an ASCII tree! we have 5 balls and 4 candy canes, which we place randomly around the tree, we also have a candle on top. Input...

 
@flawr In Haskell? map (subtract k)
subtract exists for this reason.
 
not golfy enough:)
 
10:12 AM
You asked for "elegant", not golfy :P
 
You need to learn that golfy = elegant
 
My kind of Elegant is Lisp.
 
@Zgarb The splitting up makes the challenge difficult
@ATaco we were talking about removing unnecessary parenthesis, not adding them
 
My reference solution is in Haskell, and it's a pretty neat recursion.
 
Oh no, I just posted my crappy solution =(
I'm gonna ruin Haskell's reputation...
2
 
10:26 AM
@flawr u wot m8
 
@flawr Can't access it right now, I'll check later.
 
@DestructibleWatermelon do you speak english?
 
@flawr u wot m8
 
Please stop that, otherwise I'll consider giving in to my temptation to flag this.
 
10:31 AM
@flawr I'd really rather you didn't, actually. There is nothing offensive there and flags go out to all mods and high rep users in the network.
Please only flag things that actually need flagging and/or mod attention.
 
@terdon You need to consider the backstory of @DestructibleWatermelon of continuously posting nonsensical messages, which are rather annoying.
 
By the way, that means: "you what, mate?"
@flawr Nonsensical != offensive
If that annoys you, put DestructibleWatermelon on ignore instead of flagging.
 
@terdon Well it is offensive if that persons still continues even after multiple requests to stop that.
@terdon that doesn't help anyone.
 
@flawr No, it's annoying. There's a difference :)
@flawr It helps you, you no longer see whatever is bothering you. And you don't get random mods coming in here and telling you what to do :P
Plus, this is a code golf room, you have to be used to obscure and incomprehensible utterings!
 
@terdon But it keeps bothering anyone else, and those messages still appread in the transcript.
@terdon We heavily try to avoid that.
 
10:35 AM
@flawr I am not going to delete something just because it is incomprehensible! It's not offensive, it's not rude, it's not anything other than, well, hard for you to understand.
 
@terdon It is against our chatiquette!
 
Heh, that is indeed a heinous crime, but one that you'll have to deal with in other ways, I'm afraid.
Ping one of your local mods, for example, or just ask for it to stop. Just don't raise system-wide fags for such innocuous things. Remember that flags are dealt with by humans and you're basically wasting everyone's time when flagging for nothing.
 
Anonymous
We basically have 4 problems that all exacerbate each other:
 
@flawr continously Without pause. considering that the last thing, prior to saying u wot m8, I was talking about was actually constructive and good or something
 
@terdon We do not have so many mods here and moste of them are offline at that time of the day.
 
Anonymous
10:39 AM
1. A lot of annoying users like to fill this room with garbage.
2. We often don't have enough mods/room owners online to deal with the mess.
3. Our room owners tend to give way too many warnings (in my opinion).
4. SE chat has no way to deal with users that just fill rooms with garbage (since it's technically not rude or offensive) other than mods and room owners watching the room.
 
@flawr Understood. But in that case, just wait. This wasn't hate speech or anything offensive. There's no reason for an immediate reaction.
 
@terdon I think you don't have enough experience in this particular chatroom to judge this.
5
 
Anonymous
The least you could do as a mod is move obvious nonsense to trash.
 
@Mego Yes, that's true. And we may need to find a better method if this is a common problem for you. However, when you use the flags like this, you get clueless mods like myself coming in who have no idea of the backstory and don't see anything actually offensive going on.
 
@terdon Keep in mind that nobody forces you to come if you feel like we're wasting your time.
 
Anonymous
10:41 AM
@terdon If mods can't be bothered to read our sidebar, click the link to the chatiquette, and see that the flagged message is clearly in violation of our room rules, we need better mods.
 
also you insulted my literacy do you speak english? ;_;
 
@flawr Indeed, the Nineteenth Byte is special
 
@flawr I have no experience in this room, no argument there. That's precisely why flagging isn't the best way to deal with this sort of disruption. Nonsense is not offensive, so I can't do much about it. it is also not that urgent, as I said, so this is probably something you should all work out with your local mods when they're next online. Maybe a chat ban is in order, but that's not something I am willing to so since, as you said, I dont' know the history here.
@Mego Maybe you do. I am not a mod here. I saw a flag for something that was clearly not offensive and came to see what was up. That's the drawback of using flags. You never know what clueless git you're going to get.
@DestructibleWatermelon You're not helping.
 
@terdon I disagree, it might perhaps not have been a good way but it was probably the best way that was available currently.
 
Anonymous
@terdon By "we" I meant SE chat as a whole
 
10:43 AM
@KritixiLithos Sigh. Every single room on the network is "special" to the regulars. You'd be surprised at how few of them are actually in any way special.
There are site-wide rules that are above whatever local culture a room has developed.
The be nice policy for example cannot be ignored in any room.
 
do people get flagged for posting ^^ in chat?
 
When using site-wide flags, it is sort of expected that they are about those rules. If someone is going against some local rules you've set up, you need your local room owners or mods to deal with it since they're familiar with your chattiquette, as you call it.
@DestructibleWatermelon For posting what?
 
Uhm. No.
 
Because TBH what I posted was just the inverse of carets
 
Anonymous
10:46 AM
@terdon I don't see how that's relevant at all to the discussion. None of our rules conflict with network-wide rules. They merely add to them. A moderator of an SE site is also a moderator of the entire chat network. Is it really too much to ask mods from other sites to help us deal with problems here when our mods and room owners aren't around?
 
Anonymous
If it wasn't also the responsibility of community moderators to help moderate chat rooms for sites other than their own, they wouldn't have chat moderator powers in rooms that don't belong to their site.
 
@Mego No, of course not. All I'm saying is that, well, flagging an innocuous message isn't the best way to do so. Next time, you could maybe raise a custom flag and give some guidance. Something like "User X is being disruptive, please help" as opposed to "random message here is offensive".
 
Anonymous
@terdon I apparently missed the part where it was a regular flag and not a mod flag. Regardless, we've had moderators come in here after a mod flag was raised and essentially say "it's your problem".
 
@terdon So you suggest using the mod flags instead?
 
@flawr Uhm. No, that would be silly. I take that back, my bad. I've been a mod for a while now and forget the exact choices available to non mods when flagging. Just not an "offensive" flag since those have a pretty specific use.
@Mego Not sure what it was now. I was probably wrong there.
 
Anonymous
10:50 AM
It was a spam/offensive flag (thanks PopcornSE)
 
My main point is that us clueless mods from foreign lands, can't really know what the local culture is. What I can judge is whether or not something was offensive and that wasn't.
I get that you have a rule against nonsense, but yeah, that's not really something a mod unfamiliar with the local culture can enforce, sorry.
 
Anonymous
@terdon The only two choices are spam/offensive and custom mod flags. Clearly a spam/offensive flag isn't the right choice. So it's either mod flags, or you're yet another foreign mod saying "it's your problem".
 
Anonymous
@terdon Our chat rules are literally right there in the sidebar. Surely foreign mods are capable of clicking on the link, reading it, and seeing why the message was flagged.
 
So it can't be dealt with by raising offensive flags. Those are kinda like a huge red light and siren going off, all hands to stations etc./
@Mego Then I guess a mod flag probably would be better. At least it doesn't go out to all >10k users out there. But it does indeed look like there's no Good® way fo dealing with this sort of issue.
Have you discussed this with your local team?
@Mego Well, after you all pointed it out to me, yes. But no, I didn't notice it immediately and you seem to be forgetting the number of rooms out there. You cannot expect mods reacting to offensive flags to first try and figure out the local culture everywhere.
 
Anonymous
@terdon Ad nauseum: 1 2
 
10:54 AM
@terdon Yes, we have. We did add additional room owners but even these cannot be online all the time.
 
Anonymous
@terdon I don't expect foreign mods to read through the entire transcript. It's not unreasonable to expect them to click a link in the room description to read our rules.
 
Anonymous
@terdon There is no good way, which is why we need to be able to use the only way available to us (when local mods and room owners aren't around).
 
@Mego I did, eventually. But seriously, offensive flags are used for things like serious abuse, racist language, truly offensive images etc. Using them for simple nonsense is like calling 911 when you've scraped your knee.
 
Anonymous
@terdon I'm not talking about spam/offensive flags anymore. I'm talking about custom mod flags.
 
I repeat though, if this is a common occurrence, I get that you don't know what else to do.
@Mego Well for those, you can give an explanation, right?
"Hey, Bob here is going against our rules (link)"
 
Anonymous
10:56 AM
@terdon Yes. I've raised custom mod flags that even had the chatiquette link in the description, and other mods still said "not our problem". It's ridiculous.
 
@Mego Ouch. OK, well the other issue is that mods are just a bunch of humans. Each has their own views. And yes, this is also a problem.
 
Anonymous
It's a pretty damn big problem when mods won't help out a chat room because it doesn't belong to their site.
 
Anonymous
Or because they can't be bothered to expend the tiny amount of effort needed to click the chatiquette link and read it.
 
@Mego Well, that's not really what's happening here. Look, what was flagged wasn't even nonsense in this case. I understood it immediately. It was a silly way to speak, sure, but it really wasn't offensive.
Now, if this particular user has been annoying all of you for a while and that was the tip of the iceberg, I have no way of knowing.
That sounds like something you should talk about with a local mod who can know the history and in a private room.
@Mego Remember that you have to multiple that by several dozen.
We've also largely decided to ignore local culture. That has only too foten been an excuse for a room to engage in offensive and or aggressive behavior, use offensive language etc etc. This is absolutely not the case here, but it has been often enough so that the general SE-wide feeling is kinda "screw local customs".
So yes, very few mods have the inclination to go and learn the local rules because only too foten those rules have been "we can freely use racist language here because it's just a joke".
Or things like that.
Seriously though, if you have a user who keeps posting stuff you find annoying, why don't you all put that user on ignore?
 
@terdon Because it just doesn't solve the issue! All other users are still going to see everything and as soon as you consult the transcript you still can see everything that was posted by this users. Also you'll get even more "nonsensical" messages of other users talking to that particular user, that just seem to be nonsesical because the context is missing.
 
11:06 AM
Agreed. But it is a stopgap. Seeing it in the transcript is not a big deal. Not as it would have been had it really been offensive.
 
@terdon I don't agree, many of us try to catch up on discussions and read through the transcript on a daily basis.
 
Look, we have a decent (not perfect) method of dealing with actually offensive users and emergencies where things really need to be deleted yesterday. We don't have a good system for dealing with middling things, not really offensive but annoying when done repeatedly. That's true and I don't have a magic bullet to offer you.
@flawr OK, skip the nonsense. It's not all that hard.
 
It seems we disagree and we cannot find solutions we both agree on, so I suggest we just stop this discussion.
 
This is a chat room, it's a conversation. it's not the main site where things need to be clear and serious. Stupid stuff gets said in most real life conversations too. That doesn't mean you'll call the cops on whatever idiot you happen to be talking to.
 
28 mins ago, by flawr
@terdon I think you don't have enough experience in this particular chatroom to judge this.
 
11:10 AM
@flawr That's what you guys need to get. There are site-wide rules and you invoked them. Of course I don't have experience here, nor should I need to when dealing with a flag.
 
Anyway I have to leave for a while, have a nice day!
 
If you need local experience, don't use tools that bring in the feds.
 
there are no other tools
that's the thing
 
And that is indeed a problem. Agreed.
As I said, the only other thing I can think of is to set something up with the local mods, more room owners, kicking more people out of chat etc.
I get that there's no good tool for this. Sadly, that doesn't mean you should use the wrong one. The offensive flag is the heavy cavalry and should not be used lightly.
I mean, look what it got you here: some random mod coming in complaining about users flagging all the things.
 
Anonymous
I think we could come to a fair compromise: we'll add more room owners and only use custom chat flags (not spam/offensive flags) when necessary (like now, when none of the room owners or moderators are online), and include the chatiquette link in the flag text, and other mods will read the chatiquette, take a little more time to assess the situation, and act accordingly. Is that fair?
 
11:17 AM
That does sound like a good compromise, yeah.
 
Anonymous
Like you said, spam/offensive flags are for stuff that is really really really (Dr. Cox voice) re-he-he-heally bad and needs to be dealt with ASAP. Custom flags aren't - you can take the time to determine the necessary context (and we can do better about including as much information as possible within the flag message).
 
Yep.
OK, look, I'll bring this up with one of your mods next I see them in our super seecret mod room. Sorry if I wasn't as much help as you deserve. I hope we can work something out.
 
Anonymous
@terdon I hope we can work something out too. At least you are open to helping us out - we get "not my problem" way too much. See you around :)
 
see you :)
 
Anonymous
I've also made a meta post about having more room owners - the feed bot should post it here soon
 
11:27 AM
Cool.
 
12:01 PM
1
Q: Should we have even more room owners for The Nineteenth Byte?

MegoA few months back, we had a discussion about adding more room owners to The Nineteenth Byte. As a result, five users were added as room owners, and the problems we were facing lessened. However, we're still having issues with disruptive users when there are no room owners or moderators around (sp...

 
Anonymous
@NewMetaPosts You're slow
 
HALLO
 
12:36 PM
 
Anonymous
@muddyfish Nope - non-standard flags must be included in the byte count
 
@Mego I thought so and thus commented
 
@terdon Thank you very much for your time and patience. I've read back through the transcript and I'm glad you didn't take any action. This is a subjective situation and even reading the chatiquette doesn't change that. We'll work on resolving things locally.
 
@Mego I've commented too.
 
@Mego Thanks for explaining things, and particularly for raising this on meta. In response to (3), most of the short term kicks and longer term suspensions that are happening here are not visible to the room (unless people guess and look at individual profiles). That doesn't necessarily negate "give way too many warnings", but just to let you know that we deliberately try to remove problem behaviour quietly so the rest of the room can continue oblivious.
 
12:43 PM
I like how old hardware that no longer works in Windows (or causes kernel panics) still works in linux.
 
@Mego I do think things have much improved over the last few months, but that definitely doesn't mean that the discussion should stop - there's always room for more improvement.
@DestructibleWatermelon @flawr I wouldn't have kicked for the initial "u wot m8" (although I do find it annoying). However, I would be inclined to kick for "do you speak english?", and also for the repeated "u wot m8" and for the "no". Please understand that you are both very welcome, but you will both be kicked for not being nice.
 
I wish the SEC would break up Microsoft. One apps company, several OS companies.
 
1:20 PM
@El'endiaStarman So, how's Agora Games?
 
As a rough guide, the earlier you complain about someone's behaviour, the more likely it is to be a considerately worded complaint.
 
@trichoplax That is what I've tried.
 
Sorry if I've missed that.
 
@trichoplax I think I would not have kicked anyone, but deleted the messages.
Which was my goal.
But unfortunately the flagging system seems to be suboptimal, I think this is what we all can agree on.
 
It's difficult to know where to draw the line with "text speak". I know what I find annoying, but I also know it's different for different people. Where it's done deliberately to annoy I would definitely kick
 
1:26 PM
Oh boy, chat moderation discussion. *scrolls up*
3
 
@flawr Yes I assume everyone agrees that flags in chat are nowhere near as useful as flags on main
I agree with terdon's point about urgency though. Although the current system isn't ideal, if something is annoying rather than offensive then waiting a few hours isn't the end of the world, provided action can then be taken to prevent it happening again.
 
My thought was that I had to act, because in my opinion there are too many times where people get warned or ultimates get set but no action is taken when such a case pops up again. This lack of action just takes away any credibility of those warnings/ultimates.
How should someone believe you if you don't act after what you say.
 
The kicks and suspensions aren't visible to the room, so generally only the recipient will be aware that the warning was followed through on.
 
That might be true for mods, but not for everyone else.
 
A lot of the obvious problem behaviour has been dealt with, and now we seem to be left with things that are not as clear cut (like occasional text speak).
@flawr Sorry I'm not sure what that's a response to
 
1:35 PM
Yeah, what the heck happened
 
@quartata tl;dr: very little, but we could do with discussion of the larger picture
 
@quartata Oh nothing, just a typical day at the Nineteenth Byte :P
2
 
I hope you don't mind if I stop discussing here as I don't think it is going to serve anyone.
 
You know what's the best thing that happened to me yesterday?
I accidentally made a Trojan
 
@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Although the space was required in the original meta post we have about a thousand Perl answers that count -p as one byte so I wouldn't worry
 
1:49 PM
Hmm. Regarding adding more room owners, I think that's a great idea. I have noticed that there's more noise and nonsense in the wee hours of the morning (with respect to American time zones). Plus, the responsibilities and TNB activity levels of the other mods and ROs have changed and will continue to fluctuate (for instance, I can't be relied upon to moderate while I'm working). It'd probably be a good idea to try and pick users that are more spaced out time-wise.
 
@quartata Yeah, I have tried to suggest omitting the space once or twice, and my suggestion was forcefully rejected by mods (comment replies containing something along the lines of misinformation). Also, I suggest what is usually considered the right thing to do, in case anyone is wondering. The user seems to be relatively new, so I will try to help them understand the formal rules first.
 
@flawr Regarding warnings and ultimatums, I prefer to give people multiple chances to improve. I think that if I can get a user to stop what they're doing just by telling them to stop or threatening action, that's good. Certainly better than taking action without any notice. If necessary, action will actually be taken, but I prefer not doing so without at least a warning, unless it's a frequent and long-term issue (and even then, maybe).
 
@Mego We've discussed this before, and you can't really expect non-PPCG moderators to enforce chatiquette. Even if all but one who see the flag take the time to read chatiquette, it only takes one to decline it. Also, all points of chatiquette don't require action for one-time offenders, so it doesn't really make sense to notify other mods about it. If you need us to take a look at something, just raise a custom flag on main.
 
Also, as trichoplax said, you guys don't get notifications when people are kicked or suspended. There have actually been a lot of kicks in the past few days, and I think some of the mods/ROs are becoming more willing to kick sooner.
 
What's an RO?
 
1:58 PM
@KritixiLithos room owner
 
Room owner
 
ninja'd
 
Ctrl-A Backspace
4
 
@Dennis Although this has been said before, I'd forgotten that a custom flag on main is a solution to not having site-specific flags on chat. Would it be helpful to mention this in the chatiquette?
 
@El'endiaStarman I was thinking about vim, and for a moment I was wondering, why would you want to increment a number?
2
 

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