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20:00
@ETHproductions I've had more downvotes than you, hah! :P
also @mod could you tell the guys who set up the chat relay in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/48359/ppcg-tf2-server that it goes to SE?
@KritixiLithos right liberarian
*bottom left
@BlueEyedBeast It's Downgaot
I wonder if there's a query for users with the lowest question downvote-to-upvote ratio
cast, or received?
20:02
Received on questions
it'll probably be for someone who's made a few uncontroversial answers, with a ratio of 0
really popular answers tend to receive random drive-by downvotes from people who don't really know what they're doing (this is a common problem on most sites; on SE it's less of a problem because downvotes require and cost rep, but it still happens from time to time)
wat
wat
@TuxCopter Donwgaot*
I wrote Downgaot
wat
wat
i know
20:04
@ais523 the latter (re other chatroom)
@wat wat
wat
wat
?
If you know why you said Downgaot*
wat
wat
read it again, carefully
@ais523 you also don't have the required reputation for downvoting if you've never contributed to the site, which helps (but probably also skews the total votes quite substantially).
wat
wat
20:06
it says Donwgaot
@wat >_>
<<< stupid penguin
@MartinEnder that's what I meant by "require rep"
that said, contributing is a common reason for downvotes on many other sites
oh, I only read the "cost rep" part, sorry
on Reddit, posting almost anything will immediately get you several downvotes, from bots/scripts who are trying to make their own votes count double (and effectively be able to vote on their own stuff) by downvoting everything they don't upvote
wat
wat
@TuxCopter D:
20:09
on Slashdot people often use downvotes to bury things they disagree with even though voting is very expensive on Slashdot (even with very high karma and moderator karma, you'd be lucky to be able to cast 2 votes per day)
downvotes were reserved for the sort of thing that would lead to "offensive" flags on SE
back when I was active there, I used to use my limited supply basically entirely on upvotes
as such I ended up in the habit of basically not downvoting anything ever
(on Slashdot, three net downvotes is enough to hide basically any post; two from a new user, one from an anonymous user)
I doubt slashdot will let users bury news from their own publications such as sf or softpedia.
you can't vote on posts on Slashdot, only comments
3
Q: That's one odd mountain!

ArtyerInspired by Display a chain of little mountains with an odd number on the top of it! by @sygmei. Why have a chain of mountains when you can have one massive one? Make a program that takes an input number and prints a mountain with every odd number up to the input number. (Where "south west" me...

0
Q: It's Your Turn ! (Renju)

zeppelinAbstract Renju - is an abstract strategy board game (a simpler version of it is also known as Gomoku). The game is played with black and white stones on a 15×15 gridded Go board. Black plays first if white did not just win, and players alternate in placing a stone of their color on an empty in...

0
Q: turn this array into a matrix

John Cenatake a not nested array in as input. turn it into a matrix by: let's say my array is [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] first, i repeat that array 5 times: (the length) [[1, 2, 3, 4, 5], [1, 2, 3, 4, 5], [1, 2, 3, 4, 5], [1, 2, 3, 4, 5], [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]] then, i read it along the diagonals: [[1], [2, 1],...

the posts are all hand-selected by a team of editors employed by the site, rather than by the users (although the users can suggest submissions)
Oh. I never used slashdot. I just noticed some traffic from there when a softpedia article about my project was crossposted.
20:18
its voting system is much better than Reddit's, though (and probably better than SE's)
it used to be a really major site, but it's been in decline for a while
Looking at the layout of the "thread" inquestion: linux.slashdot.org/story/16/10/05/1510203/… . I find that absolutely repelling to read. I much prefer simpler approaches like HN.
yeah, the site formatting is dubious, there was a near-riot when they originally changed it to that one
and I strongly disagree with a default configuration that leaves the majority of comments collapsed-but-visible, as I find that particularly ugly
I called out Abbott on the last-century feel of Slashdot media (SF in particular). He responded with this:
> Lots of good changes at SourceForge since my company acquired it in January
> Modernization/redesign coming soon as well.
None of what I was complaining about actually changed.
It always makes me happy to see vim-golfers using v.tio. :D
Those of you who work in an office-like environment, about how much of your working hours are meetings?
20:32
Very few
A few minutes whenever most people are in, usually in the morning. But we don't have fixed office hours.
it really depends on your job, I think
@Kade 0
when I work on research compiler development, we're talking about one hour a week, there's no real reason for more as it's a very solitary job that doesn't really require collaboration
Also depends on what you count as a "meeting"
20:32
many jobs require more though
But then again, I'm 19 and an intern there, so...
I have anywhere between 1 and 3 hours a day :/
@ais523 This was a research position or a development position? It sounds pretty interesting!
@Kade 15 minutes daily, 1 hour a month
@ais523 you work on compiler development?
@Kade: it's a bit of both but more development
I've just accepted another job in the same field, it's not that large a field though
20:36
Huh. Well I just found a vim bug.
the basic idea is that when someone comes up with a new idea on how to write/design a programming language (this is fairly common in CS departments)
someone needs to actually try it out, trying to implement the compiler, writing programs, and the like
it's a hard job because you don't know for certain that what you're trying is even possible; you're the first one to do it
but it can be a lot of fun
So you're working with brand new languages then?
I sort of assumed it would be existing languages and compilers
often yes (sometimes the language is an existing one but you're implementing features into it that it doesn't naturally have)
so your job is to break a compiler?
well, to take a concrete example, one task I was given was because my boss had developed a new method of compiling higher-order functions into hardware
we needed a new language for that, as there weren't any hardware-specific functional languages yet
and I needed to write a compiler (into VHDL in this case) pretty much from scratch
20:39
oh, so you write compilers
and of course there are a ton of subtleties you get in practical implementation that you don't think of when writing up the maths
so yes, it's mostly compiler development, but with a different "focus" from normal compiler development
given that what you mostly care about is trying to get the program to work at all
once there's a working research compiler you can move on to trying to make a more practically usable one
what do you compile into?
(typically)
@ais523 I'm actually looking for an internship on compilers or virtual machines... any chances there is an opening around you? or would you know where I could look?
so far I've only worked on hardware, so VHDL
with the new job I don't think it's been decided yet
looking up vhdl...its pretty high level
20:42
you have to use a fairly low-level subset of it for it to actually be compiled to hardware though
In terms of a path to follow in university (I'm 3rd year), what would you suggest and what did you do?
@Dada: I can't think of an opening around me at the moment; half the reason I'm on PPCG right now is that I was looking for a way to waste some time between jobs, it took a while for the new one to start after the old one ran out of funding
@Kade: I did a PhD in theoretical computer science, that seems like a good path to follow (I also did a masters degree first but it was in electronic engineering; that's how I got into the hardware-focused jobs that I started with)
well, my interest in compilers is more around high-level languages (specifically typing), which is probably stuff you don't have to deal with at all :/
that's what my PhD was on
although it was in the context of finite-state type systems
i.e. type systems that statically require a program to be implementable on a finite computer
20:45
@ais523 ok, I just asked in case you had an idea :)
may I ask where you work, out of curiosity?
university of birmingham, UK
@ais523 there's a type system that allows for unimplementable programs?
@NathanMerrill most do, e.g. untyped lambda calculus, or simply typed lambda calculus + fix
you can write an infinite recursion in either of those
that's unimplementable on a real computer because the stack overflows, which is not a correct implementation of the program
ah, so a type system that isn't recursive?
as such, we normally (theoretically) define the implemented version of the language to be only an "approximation" of the mathematical language
20:48
@ais523 I visited on an open day this year
disallowing general recursion is one thing you typically have to do in order to keep a language finite-state
oooh I just found a wild Pichu
or a type system that prevents stack overflows from occurring at runtime?
it's not the only thing though
@NathanMerrill right, in my finite-state type systems stack overflow at runtime is one thing that can't occur (memory exhaustion at runtime can't either)
<-- is not just on codegolf at work, but is also playing pokemon moon
20:49
I'm confused as to whether you're preventing infinite recursion of the program or infinite recursion of the types
but it sounds like the former
of the program
having a type system that prevent stack overflow will be very restrictive on the language, no?
(other than tail recursion, obviously; from a computer scientist's point of view, all loops are recursive)
@Dada to some extent yes, but there's still a lot you can usefully accomplish
can even still be turing complet?
no, it can't be
this is the case for all programming languages and computers that exist in practice though
20:50
@ais523 so, in theory, you could prevent stack overflows, however, you could practically get a stack overflow with enough states
(on esolangs.org we use the phrase "bounded storage machine" for something that would be Turing-complete if it had infinite memory, but isn't because it only has finite memory)
@NathanMerrill in the output of the compiler I wrote, it was possible to enumerate all possible instruction pointer + stack combinations in advance
ah, so the resulting program was hardware specific
in fact it had the advantage that the stack was distributed over the program, rather than all being in one place, which means your program can run faster and parallelize better because it doesn't have a central bottleneck
I want to "add" four new rows of pixels to the left of an image. Not scale, but just add four pixels of the same color to an image. How would I go about doing that?
what format is the image in at the moment?
most image editing libraries have a command to resize the canvas without moving the underlying pixels
20:53
@ais523 png
either you resize it larger from the left, or (if that isn't an option) you resize it larger from the right, then translate
My image editor edits png directly
@ais523 Not an option
Mac Preview, technically it's PDF and Image viewing software :P
in several PNG editors I've used, you can just find a resize handle to the left of the image, and drag it further left
And I can't find a way to do it in paintbrush (MS Paint for mac)
oh, I can't help with mac software
20:54
I'm looking for a tool
@ais523 Does inkscape have that?
both MS Paint and Kolourpaint (my Linux equivalent of it) have a resize option in the menus that let you specify a precise number of pixels, also let you drag handles
Inkscape is a vector image editor, it's a poor fit here
Inkscape is a vector suite, not a raster editor.
ninja'd
You can use GIMP. But for macOS, there's hardly anything better than Pixelmator (or Affinity Designer, which can handle vector and raster)
Both are paid
this is a common issue with Mac OS X (all the good software being paid)
This may be getting too complicated if you only have to do it for one image but I remember when I was messing with video there was an extremely powerful scripting language that can do a lot of stuff (including this)
actually many application developers target Apple hardware specifically because they have less competition from free programs, so that people are more likely to pay for their paid ones
20:57
I can't for the life of me remember the name
Paintbrush is MS Paint for mac - free and useful for editing individual pixels
you might be thinking of ImageMagick/GraphicsMagick? it could almost certainly do it
AviSynth
but figuring out how is often a pain
That's the name of it
20:57
oh, AviSynth is basically the video-specific version of ImageMagick
I think it may be windows-only though
I think I'll just mess around with ImageMagick, oh ninja'd
I assume it can handle images because it can handle individual video frames, but that isn't its primary use
Visualization of an interpolation algorithm for points between attractors in 3D space: vimeo.com/186065608
@ais523 out of curiosity, have you done much with gradual typing?
21:03
no
1
Q: Make a simplified Tamagotchi/Giga Pet!

ender_scytheTamagotchi and Giga Pets were small electronic devices which simulated a little virtual pet. This pet had several stats, like health, hunger, etc. I recently made This: import msvcrt,os,sys;d=m=100;h=s=t=p=0;f=10 while 1: os.system('cls'if os.name=='nt'else'clear');print("health:",d,"\nhunger:...

1
Q: Draw an odd binary tree

OliverInspired by That's one odd mountain! and Display a chain of little mountains with an odd number on the top of it! Given a number, print a binary tree using the character Λ with little odd numbers whenever things meet. You can stop once you have printed that number or that number - 1. For exampl...

{} = brackets or braces?
braces or "curly brackets"
brackets
What happened to tryj.tk?
21:10
"brackets" on its own is ambiguous, but normally refers to ( ) in everyday language and [ ] in a programming context
(although it's a general term that also includes { } and arguably even < >, which are called "angle brackets" when used as a pair)
I think it's brackets because braces are things to help teeth get better
I like brackets
@ais523 Nope. Those are parentheses in everyday
I call them all brackets, but specifically "square" [] brackets and "curly" {} brackets
although that's just if I'm saying it informally
@DrMcMoylex I think it's region dependent. Where I live we call () brackets, parentheses is more of US term.
@DrMcMoylex: nobody uses the word "parentheses" in everyday language, it's purely for people who want to be technically specific about ( ), like programmers and typesetters
21:13
... I do
At least, when I'm talking about them in everyday language, which isn't often, haha
More importantly: Why is the shifted (i.e. "uppercase") version of a keyboard key's character on the bottom half? On my keyboard the 0 is above the ).
on mine the 0 is below the )...
Here the = is above the 0 ;-)
21:15
the shift key has an upwards-pointing arrow, so most keyboard put the shifted version of the key on the top of the key
() parenthesis [] braces {} curly parenthesis just to annoy everyone
this is a bit inconsistent because you'd expect the keyboard to be labelled with lowercase letters in that case (unless you assume that caps lock is on by default; in the very early days of terminals, it would have been, because it took a while for lowercase to become available everywhere)
@ais523 not mine, that's what I'm saying
yours is weird
@mınxomaτ Then your + is lonely?
21:17
@ais523 The way my keyboard is, the letters are at the top of the keys, similar to the shift characters for the other ones, so it kinda makes sense then. They just omit the lowercase versions of the letters below.
@ais523 That was just a joke. I usually do parenthesis-square brackets-curly brackets.
So I asked a (very non-technical) friend of mine what they're called, and he said parentheses with no hesitation.
does anyone actually type on layouts like dvorak? Apparently it's faster, but it'd be hell working on computers that aren't yours
Now I'm curious if it is a regional thing
I think it is
I've never heard a proper british person say parenthesis, I picked that up on american-based sites like SE
21:18
@Flp.Tkc: due to a terrible mixup at work, I spent some time working on an AZERTY keyboard even though I'm not French
So you would call them brackets?
definitely
it wasn't that hard to get used to, but I mostly set it to a UK layout anyway and just touchtyped
On my keyboard the shifted is at the up left and the alt-gred is at the bottom right with the normal letter being at the center
Even When you're not being technical?
21:18
@Flp.Tkc Unless I'm transcribing, I can't think faster than I can type anyway
it's like how you use pedmas, we used bidmas - the b is for brackets
() - parentheses, [] - brackets, {} - curley brackets, braces
the hard part was ensuring that my passwords contained no characters which were in a different place on the two keyboards; it seemed like asking for trouble to leave that ambiguous
What would you call a parenthetical just out of curiosity?
@Flp.Tkc What does "please excuse my dear aunt sally" become?
@Flp.Tkc haha, that's funny. I've always been taught PEMDAS, not PEDMAS
@quartata: we'd still call it that, but we don't use the word very often
That's the right side of my keyboard
brackets indicies division multiplication addition subtraction
maybe we'd call it an "aside"
21:19
> Druck
Indicies? Is that exponents?
@Calvin'sHobbies German for Print
@DrMcMoylex what's 24 ÷ 3 × 2?
Aww, you get a mu
Well, Druck as actually German for both print and pressure
21:20
yep, which is strange because I'd call them exponents/powers but never indices, but for some reason that's the letter in bidmas
I have no idea why
@Calvin'sHobbies mu, i am cow :P
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ agreed, but if you do the multiplication first you get 4
so PEMDAS versus PEDMAS actually matters
I had to learn P  E  MD  AS
See the small spaces?
@ais523 Uuuuhhhhhhhhh... I feel like neither answer is good
21:22
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ and you go left to right within a group? that's how most programming languages work
Obviously 4 or 16, but it should be notated better
although this is rarely actually taught in programming courses
@ais523 No, you just do both at the same time, working left to right
So then 16
21:22
that's what I mean, in a single group (M+D), there's a tie which you tiebreak by going left to right
16 is the consensus answer, I think
@mınxomaτ Your + is not lonely at all. Has svelte ~ and bubbly * for company.
you have the mu character on the M :O
@Calvin'sHobbies It's also what I hit instead of return on this insane lenovo layout+#*#
that would come in useful
@ais523 if you look at that link it says (M+D) and (A+S) are done left to right
@Flp.Tkc huh, looks like Bitsize has a) given the programming definition, b) arranged the acronym in such a way that even if you forget about ties it will still work
21:24
I have tons of "AltGr"-accesible chars, but onlyn @, € and µ are actually printed on the keyboard.
that's clever, it means you can avoid being wrong and also that slight misrememberance won't make you fail your exam
(Bitesize is mostly a revision site intended for exam preparation)
haha, they should call the computing section of bitesize "bytesize" or "bitsize"
CMC: Create the shortest expression consisting of positive integers less than 10 with elementary operations (+, -, *, /) between them such that by inserting parentheses in the correct positions, all integers from 1 to 10 can be obtained. Rational division can be assumed.
E.g., 6/3*2 would yield 1 and 4
Ooh that's a cool challenge
Could be a real challenge :p
21:27
For puzzling, not ppcg
probably not for this site, though, it'd be better off on the puzzling SE (they possibly have it already?)
my 2 cents: () are brackets [] are square brackets {} are braces and <> are less/greater than
over here, it'd be "write a program that can be made to output all the numbers from 1 to n by adding parentheses"
<> edgy brackets
I'm working on a language atm where 7 and 6 are often used like brackets
it's a golfing-inspired language, which uses 3-bit commands
21:28
But 6 is afraid of 7!
@BlueEyedBeast and ≺≻? :P
@Yodle well 76 and 67 are both not particularly useful in this language, you'd want other characters in between
so it works perfectly :-D
« » I call these shift brackets, there's probably a better name
() are parentheses, [] are brackets, {} are braces, and <> are those weird French-quotation-mark-looking things in my opinion
wait, both 76 and 67 are valid?
21:29
ofc there's the real french Guillemet
@ais523 0 bytes in brain-flak. :P
thats like trying to make both [] and ][ valid
@Flp.Tkc I don't call these anything
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ < > aren't the french ones, they're double layered: « »
i know this † is a dagger, but I always think of it as a "crucifix"
@NathanMerrill: any program is valid, but some are more useful than others; actually 67 is moderately useful, there are cases where you'd use it (just like you might use )( usefully in C, for example)
ƸBow to my fancy bracketsƷ
ƸÏƷ butterfly too
21:32
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it...
@ais523 oh, they just don't pair
e.g. in a command like (some_complex_expression_that_returns_a_function_pointer)(argument)
right
@TuxCopter but that is nifty
I thought you were saying that they still paired to each other
@Calvin'sHobbies :)
21:33
ah no
actually they don't technically pair with each other when you write them the 76 way round either
just, they practically pair in normal usage
][ is a completely useless symbol pair in BF; to exit the first loop, the current cell has to be 0, so the second loop will never be run
it's not useless at all, it's a good way to write comments
"header comments" in BF are very common (not for golf, but for writing programs for other reasons)
and this lets you simulate a header comment anywhere you close a loop
like [-] [comment]?
@ais523 >implying BF is used for anything other than a laugh
List of serial killers by number of victims "This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it."
15
o_O
21:36
@Calvin'sHobbies Hahaha
@GabrielBenamy brb making nethack port in BF
@Calvin'sHobbies oh dear
@GabrielBenamy people used to use it a lot in order to prove things Turing-complete, although nowadays there are normally better choices, like BCT
ma boi zodiac is on there
Or emulate a Minsky machine
there are also compilers that target it, so it's a sensible intermediate/bytecode language if your task doesn't care about performance
21:37
@Flp.Tkc That's such a creepy story
yes, Minsky machines are also often a good choice, it depends on what features the language has though
USA! USA!
@Flp.Tkc don't even want to know
21:39
@Calvin'sHobbies it really is spooky
21:55
-1
Q: Order one numbers sequence with a not conventional compare, and show the bits

RosLuPOrder one sequence of numbers and show the bits Here we read "NNI" as "Not Negative Integer"; they are NNI={0,1,2,...,n} Write one function M(), for make lists (or arrays) M:NNI->List NNI in the way if n is a NNI, M(n) is the list [0,1,2,...,(2^n)-1]. Write one function L(), for order on...

0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

OliverWill the snake bump into itself? Given a string containing NESW characters, check if a snake will bump into itself if it moves like this: The snake starts out with length 2. For every character in the string: If the character is N, move the head of the snake up one. If the character is E, mo...

22:10
@Downgoat please update the server
TIL Cheddar has splat operator
i didn't even know it had that and I coded it .____.
this is akward
how often does the "people reached" stat update? For some reason, I've gone from 9k to 35k in the last week...
you've probably answered one or more very popular challenges
this should account for the difference: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/100653/8478
hmm, probably that and the challenge i posted combined. still a big jump tho
22:29
@Calvin'sHobbies @MarkyMarkov can help with that >_>
'[naɪt]
22:43
Where's the list of banned loopholes? I want to check out ppcg rules
need some dumb, short puns
256
Q: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Peter TaylorI've been thinking for a while that this would be useful, and some recent discussions have strengthened that belief. There are a number of standard loopholes which experienced question-setters seek to explicitly close. However, inexperienced question-setters may unintentionally leave them open, ...

@george there you go
Thanks!
@Calvin'sHobbies You short on puns or something? (Yes, I know that's a cheap one.)
59
Q: What is so bad about puns?

PeterBocanMany times I've heard of 'pun intended' or 'pun not intended', which I see as a form of excuse in the English-spoken world. However, I can not wrap my head around why are you constantly excusing/explaning something so innocent(?) as pun. What I am giving off constantly saying 'pun intended'? Wh...

there are some here ^
22:55
@Calvin'sHobbies why did the scarecrow win an award? Because he was outstanding in his field.

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