The Nineteenth Byte

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

06:02

@DJMcMayhem @HelkaHomba mc?

Helka Homba

maybe

Anonymous

@Geobits You're fired

Geobits

Oh good. I was getting tired from all this dense air anyway. I mean, it's like 2am, so I've probably lost an inch today.

Anonymous

06:21

>_>

ASCII-only

Does anyone know of a good symbol to represent chr/ord?

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

@ASCII-only ç

ö

ö looks like a very surprised face

ASCII-only

Those don't represent chr/ord at all

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

they have mnemonics.

Anonymous

c and o

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

06:26

probably taken

betseg

@DmitryKudriavtsev chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=32226257#32226257 you stole the joke ;_;

ASCII-only

@Mego ASCII characters are reserved for string literals

betseg

Ü is happy btw

Anonymous

Something that looks like c and o?

ASCII-only

Also chr/ord will need the same character BTW

Anonymous

06:28

Maybe c-cedilla?

ASCII-only

Also what would I call a command that acts as chr/ord depending on its argument?

Geobits

chord

@Mego copyright circled C :)

betseg

©

ASCII-only

github.com/somebody1234/Charcoal/wiki/Code-page

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Overloaded?

ASCII-only

06:33

@Mego I mean what would I call combined chr/ord

Anonymous

chr/ord maybe?

Geobits

Yeah, don't make it harder than it needs to be

Anonymous

KISS principle :)

Anonymous

(not the stay-up-all-night-partying one)

Geobits

Bah. Was going for a different KISS joke, but now it just feels like a copycat :/

My spine must be too compressed to think straight. Guess I should head to bed now.

ASCII-only

06:42

Still don't really think © is a good enough mnemonic

Also ℅ is better than © IMO

Geobits

Agreed. So that's settled then?

ASCII-only

06:57

I'm wondering if there's any unicode symbol containing both a letter and a number

(english letter and arabic number btw before anyone exploits any loopholes)

Qwerp-Derp

08:05

Hello

ASCII-only

09:04

@Qwerp-Derp Hello

flawr

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ woah, really cool. Is it a leather handle?

muddyfish

good morning guys

Kritixi Lithos

09:26

Allo guys, good morning!

muddyfish

I just noticed I've stared practically the entire starboard

Kritixi Lithos

lol

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

10:23

@MartinEnder Have any suggestions for this?

2

A: Output a googol copies of a string

Mathematica, 48 bytes a="~Do~1*^10";ToExpression["Echo@0"<>a~Table~10] Outputs the string >> 0 followed by a newline (1010)10 = 10100 times. Expands to this program: Echo@0~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10~Do~1*^10

(Print["0"~StringRepeat~1*^100] wouldn't work because StringRepeat literally uses StringJoin @* ConstantArray, and Echo@0~Do~1*^100 wouldn't work due to 10^100 not being machine-size)

feersum

10:46

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ This seems way too fancy... what's wrong with n=0;While[n<10^100,Print[];n++]

New Sandboxed Posts

11:03

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Killer Sudoku Pro suggestions Regular Sudoku is just about creating a enhanced Latin square and features no arithmetic. Killer Sudoku goes further: the puzzle is tiled with polyominoes which are labelled with the sum of the cells which they cover. Additionally, no polyomino may cover two cells ...

ASCII-only

11:26

@ConorO'Brien @Downgoat Created new story draft, pls ping with comments/improvements or improve yourself if you can (Also Vivaldi is weird and doesn't let me make codeblocks, can someone make that one codeblock actually a codeblock)

Conor O'Brien

11:42

What?

TuxCopter

Hiya

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien Medium blog

feersum

11:57

I golfed 1792 bytes off Seed "Hello World"... then I golfed off 29 more.

ASCII-only

@feersum 0/10 scores in wrong order

feersum

Do you have a golfing style guide reference? citation-needed

ASCII-only

@feersum IDK, but pretty much every other answer has it the other way around

@feersum This is being semi-brute-forced, right? Are you checking programs longer than 21 bytes?

feersum

Only the first char is brute forced. The second is garbage, and the rest are calculated.

In the previous versions there was no brute forcing at all.

TuxCopter

@feersum o_O do you bruteforced it

feersum

12:05

The math really doesn't work out for that.

TuxCopter

you bruteforced a 4202 digits seed o____O

ASCII-only

@feersum Would it not make the seed shorter to have more garbage characters?

Sp3000

@feersum Eagerly awaiting an explanation, but for now I'll get ready with the awarding :P

feersum

Hmm first I might want to use it on that C&R... rubs palms together

Sp3000

... D:

... well, fair enough :P

ASCII-only

12:12

@feersum Are you going to hide all characters of the seed?

feersum

@ASCII-only You must be thinking of a different one. I mean Adnan's from a couple months ago.

Why doesn't OEIS have a "Random" button

ASCII-only

@feersum Close enough

feersum

@Sp3000 Maybe you could wait until I add an explanation to post bounty.

Sp3000

Depending on how good your explanation is, I could just throw on another one :P

feersum

@ASCII-only Oh, nice.

TuxCopter

12:20

I edited Seed esowiki page to include this answer

feersum

Did you remove the "Unusable for programming" tag ;)?

TuxCopter

No, because it's still unusable for programming without a quantum computer I guess

feersum

I can easily make any program up to 310 bytes.

TuxCopter

o_o

TIL Geobits and xnor are poets

muddyfish

12:36

Wait Hello World got written in Seed?

TuxCopter

yep o_O

ASCII-only

@feersum BTW once you post the explanation you should probably gist or add the generator to the esolangs Seed article yourself

muddyfish

Upvoted

How much processing power got thrown at it?

ASCII-only

Sounds like normal desktop at most, for a day or two

feersum

Why does everyone keep insisting that it must have been found by brute force?

Mersenne Twister is not cryptographically secure.

The answer can be found by math.

ASCII-only

12:40

@feersum It is partially brute forced

muddyfish

Complex math

feersum

The amount of brute force added in the last version is tiny. Only a few milliseconds' worth

ASCII-only

Partly match, mostly inspection of Python's Mersenne Twister source IIRC

feersum

Can anyone explain why this OEIS sequence is well-defined?

ASCII-only

@feersum How is it not

feersum

12:46

A counterexample would consist of two powers of two A and B such that the last k digits of A and the last k digits of B are all 1 or 6, but not all teh same.

Geobits

I assume you can call it well defined if there's a proof somewhere that that can't happen, but yeah.

I would think that would be linked.

ASCII-only

Because the last digits always cycle

quartata

@orlp re your comment: no objective metric will be exactly thr same as a human subjectively measuring it which was what the question was asking for

ASCII-only

The last digit has a cycle of period 4, the last 2 period 20, don't have Python open so I can't tell how long cycles of more digits are, I'm sure someone has figured out somehow that that sequence is well-defined

quartata

Not saying that there isn't a better format than a popcon in that specific case but that isn't what this was about

ASCII-only

12:58

@feersum here, a quick inspection shows that the last digits have to be a multiple of Math.pow(2, length_of_digits) I think

Wait, that is kinda obvious considering they're powers of 2 and the last n digits modulo 10^n will have a remainder divisible by 2^n

feersum

@ASCII-only Good observation, this should allow us to prove by induction.

Given that there is a unique value for k digits, there are only two possibilities for k+1 digits.

And they differ by 5 * 10^n which is not divisible by 2^(k+1)

So only one of them can be possible.

ASCII-only

I wonder how many of those sequences are in the OEIS

feersum

Looks like 23397 through 23415 are in this vein.

quartata

Dammit ETH still hasn't rolled back his change. What are we supposed to do in a situation like this

TuxCopter

what situation?

quartata

13:10

ETH's original answer was in favor of keeping the showcase. Then a dy later when it had around +21/-9 he edited in some stuff where he said he favored deletion

That's why it "looks like" the consensus is to delete even though in reality it probably isn't since people have not updated their votes appropriately

His new views should be in a new answer

Geobits

FWIW, I don't think the voting on that Q/As indicate a strong consensus either way.

quartata

And would people please stop downvoting the question

feersum

We have a consensus that there's no consensus.

Geobits

@quartata Hey, don't look at me. I upvoted :D

betseg

Wat how

Geobits

13:15

Ugh. You'd think there'd be at least one store in this town where I could find a kid's karate gi. Why are places all lazy and outsourcing to amazon nowadays :/

quartata

@feersum Well we won't get a consensus if people keeping downvoting the question so I guess that must be it

Geobits

Voting might even out over the week. AFAICT, the entire thing came up over the weekend, which is usually a slower time on the site. I didn't even know a conversation was taking place about it until last night.

TimmyD

@feersum Precisely this.

We're so completely disorganized with consensus on pop-cons that even asking them is basically completely dependent upon the rep of the asker.

Poke

I know we're not having more popcon drama

jesus

TimmyD

Like, honestly, what is the difference between Make the pattern from composition notebooks and Computer Generated Cracked Soil?

Geobits

13:26

popularity-contest Predict the vote count of this challenge.

Poke

-3

Closed as off topic

TuxCopter

Deleted by owner

feersum

-8

Geobits

Wow, tough crowd tonight :)

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Multi-lingual Challenge polyglot popularity-contest After all the fun we've had with polyglot challenges in the (recent) past, how about a challenge where the output can be in two languages? Your answer needs to accept boolean input b and output the text true or false. The same code needs to o...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

13:28

+35 it'll hit HNQ

Poke

@Geobits to be fair it's early on a monday

mınxomaτ

More Monopolies, episode 3: CenturyLink to Buy Level 3 for $34 Billion in Cash, Stock

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr more full metal with a leather grip, but yes

Geobits

Level 3? Oh wow, they're huge.

mınxomaτ

They are important.

Geobits

13:29

Yeah, they have a lot of infrastructure stuff going on.

feersum

That's an orange property, right?

mınxomaτ

I don't care about Time Warner (not to be confused with Time Warner Cable), but Level 3 is basically the backbone of he internet.

Geobits

@feersum You're thinking of St James Place

Poke

i think st james place is red

st charles place is orange

Geobits

I think you're wrong ;)

Poke

13:31

hmm i guess you're right

st james is orange

st charles is purple

Geobits

Source: played Monopoly yesterday

Poke

you masochist

Geobits

Pretty much. I didn't just play it, I played it with kids. Fun and terrible at the same time.

TimmyD

If you actually play by the rules, a game of Monopoly takes an hour, tops.

Poke

ohhhh boy

wut?

mınxomaτ

13:33

Monopoly: Tearing family and friends apart since 1903

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@TimmyD o_o wtf are you talking about

Poke

if you play "by the rules" you have auctions and stuff

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

it takes forever

Poke

it takes longer

TimmyD

No, it doesn't.

Geobits

13:33

Yeah, it didn't take too long. The main slowdown was, well, the kids.

If I wanted to play a game for more than an hour or so, I'd play Risk.

flawr

Why not settlers of catan?

Poke

settlers isn't bad

flawr

With the extension packs?

Poke

i prefer it over the others

Geobits

@flawr Because it wasn't in the game cabinet of the house I was at. They're all board games about as old as I am.

Poke

13:35

the castle expansion is a bit weird

muddyfish

I like settlers of catan

TimmyD

If you land on an unowned space, and you can't afford and/or don't want to purchase it, the auction method creates the opportunity for that space to be owned immediately rather than waiting for the next person around to land on it.

flawr

@Geobits The question then is, how old are you?:)

Geobits

Over 10, less than 100.

flawr

SoC was released in 1995

TimmyD

13:36

Every property is gobbled up faster.

Geobits

@flawr Definitely older than that :)

Poke

@TimmyD mortgage/un-mortgaging properties takes a bunch of time too

determining your actual worth for taxes

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr 59 iirc

@flawr the star trek one is fun

why did somebody unstar me saying geobits was a geezer -.-

Geobits

@Poke In almost every circumstance, it's pointless to do that. The $200 is less than your tax bill 99.73% of the time unless you hit it on the first trip around or so.

Poke

correct

Geobits

13:38

So it doesn't take any time.

Poke

-.-

Geobits

Seriously. I hit the square and just fork over $200

TimmyD

Funds are extremely limited in Monopoly. The only ways to get more (overall) money into the player's hands is from passing Go or a handful of cards.

Geobits

Tell that to people who play Free Parking jackpot rules -_-

TimmyD

Precisely

Poke

13:39

well at this point we're just rehashing all the rules so i'll drop it

Geobits

I could go for some hash right about now.

Poke

aw but everyone loves the free parking rule

Geobits

@Poke Yeah, it's fun to hit it and get some free money, but it definitely drags the game out.

Poke

everyone

TimmyD

@Geobits That is, by far, the one reason why games take forever. That money was supposed to be out of the (overall) player's pool, but instead got re-injected into it.

TuxCopter

13:40

And this started with mınxomaτ posting a message containing the text 'monopoly' -.-

Poke

lulz

Geobits

Talking about real life monopolies is too depressing. Give me escapism any day.

TimmyD

Speaking of escapism, I finally purchased GTA V last night for PC.

Poke

nice

ETHproductions

@quartata Done. Sorry, I wasn't sure if I could post it in the same answer

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

13:45

@Poke not me

@Geobits google

Yodle

They put up giant glass windows in our cubes over the weekend, woohoo for more privacy.

Poke

@Yodle now you can get some nice blinds to decorate your cube

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat mind writing a piece of on cheddar for the medium blag?

TimmyD

Time for some epic window clings.

drobilc

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

13:50

@Yodle pls

TimmyD

Perfect.

Yodle

I sit in an area that's really far from any outside windows, I need that

TuxCopter

I am trying to implement arbitrary precision integer in Cheddar

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ shore.

flawr

Fart sparks fire during surgery in Japan; patient seriously burnt

TuxCopter

13:53

md-fail

Zacharee1

@flawr ≥_≥

TuxCopter

fart-fire

mınxomaτ

@flawr They just wanted to recreate that House episode

TimmyD

@flawr Well, if there's a place to get set on fire, literally at the doctor's might be one of the best.

drobilc

TuxCopter

14:08

@Downgoat How to include a file in cheddar?

arda

Hey folks

TuxCopter

Hai

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

hello

Yodle

Are we allowed to use non-standard libraries in our programs, such as numpy for Python?

TuxCopter

~~Question: How to move the content of a directory to an other directory?~~ wtf I forgot about mv

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

14:14

@Yodle yes

needs an import though

import numpy or import numpy as n

Yodle

Okay just making sure, thanks

drobilc

If I tag multiple people in my message, do they all receive sound notification?

TuxCopter

cheddar> Rational.of("1/0")
Runtime Error: AHHH DIVISION BY ZERO WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIEEEEE

...

mbomb007

Can someone help me solve my own challenge? I'm getting wrong output after `28455997`. :/
http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/98112/34718
https://repl.it/EIlM/5

And I can't figure out why..

I can't even figure out why the output is wrong.

Zacharee1

uh, hi...

TuxCopter

14:28

Huh

arda

@drobilc yes

TuxCopter

At least it's nuked now

drobilc

I figured that out :)

mbomb007

For example, why is this triple incorrect? (28455997, 83381431, 88103387)

A<B and gcd(A,B,C)==1

Poke

why is (1, 2, 3) incorrect

i think i'm missing your point

mbomb007

14:39

@Poke That's not a Pythagorean triple

Poke

neither is yours?

mbomb007

Yes it is.

Poke

wolframalpha.com/input/…

maybe i typo'd

mbomb007

Hmm...

Is this a Python thing?

Poke

yet people love non-strongly typed languages for some reason

TimmyD

14:41

Well, it's really close

Poke

(note: I'm not saying that's the problem; just that it makes things more confusing)

TimmyD

Might be running into a precision issue.

Nathan Merrill

@Poke I think its that people love readable languages. Its hard to have a typed system that doesn't include hard-to-read cruft

mbomb007

@TimmyD Yeah. That's probably it.

I think the square root isn't accurate enough.

Poke

readable vs hard-to-read is subjective

it's people's unwillingness to learn

feersum

14:42

In OCaml or Haskell you can have type systems without writing any types.

TuxCopter

Sometimes type inference do some weird things

El'endia Starman

Strict typing slows down the iterative process of programming.

TuxCopter

So most of the time it's good to write types :P

Nathan Merrill

@Poke its really not. And readability, while subjective to individuals, is pretty obvious when you take the mass opinion

TuxCopter

@El'endiaStarman But it make the executable faster

Nathan Merrill

14:43

@feersum I don't know OCaml, but Haskell, you have to deal with writing purely functional code, which is a totally different issue :)

feersum

In OCaml you don't have to do that.

El'endia Starman

@TuxCopter Wrong priority while developing.

feersum

If you want to stick some debug printfs it doesn't give a damn.

Poke

I disagree

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman does it really?

I think that refactoring is much easier in a typed language

Poke

14:45

The weirdness around typed languages is likely due to widening/narrowing of number types

although in a lang that isn't strongly typed one has no idea if that's happening or not

Nathan Merrill

@Poke what does widening mean? The difference between float and double?

Poke

yeah

promotion from int to long

etc

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill That's significantly further along in development than when you're just starting out and don't really have a good idea of how it'll work eventually.

Poke

short i = -1;
while( i != 0) {
  i >>>= 1;
}

produces in infinite loop in java

TuxCopter

Huh

Nathan Merrill

14:47

@El'endiaStarman right, but you were saying the "iterative" process of programming, which means that the 1st iteration takes longer, but all future iterations are shorter

Poke

due to the implicit widening/narrowing

Yodle

@Poke Is that the infamous super greater than operator?

3

Poke

:] not quite

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I meant "iterative process" more in the sense of "type some code, run it to see if it works".

Nathan Merrill

@Poke right, but I really don't think that widening/narrowing is much of an issue nowadays. Unless you're doing game development/efficient code, you pretty much just use doubles and ints

feersum

14:48

No, that's the super duper greater than assignment operator.

Poke

ehhh

TimmyD

@Poke PowerShell promotes from int to double...

Poke

@TimmyD wut? that is super confusing hahaha

betseg

Have you seen my new "language" that transpiles to Brainfuck?

TimmyD

Yeah. Especially given that int64 exists as a standard data type.

TuxCopter

14:50

@TimmyD Huh

Poke

@El'endiaStarman I could see this if I'm just trying to POC something

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman I think that largely depends on the code you're writing. If you are simply using libraries, its easier in a typed language. If you're writing libraries, then its much harder to start off

Poke

otherwise it's a good practice to do TDD

Yodle

Too many TLA's

Poke

Test Driven Development

TimmyD

14:52

Of course, if you explicitly cast your variable as an int, because PowerShell is strongly typed, it'll barf out an error if you do [int]$a=2147483647;$a++

El'endia Starman

@Poke POC = Piece of Crap?

Poke

@TimmyD oh interesting. powershell errors when you overflow?

mbomb007

@TimmyD I have to use Decimal. :(

Poke

@El'endiaStarman more or less (Proof of Concept)

TimmyD

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> [int]$a=[int]::MaxValue;$a++
Cannot convert value "2147483648" to type "System.Int32". Error: "Value was either too large or too small for an Int32."
At line:1 char:25
+ [int]$a=[int]::MaxValue;$a++
+                         ~~~~
    + CategoryInfo          : MetadataError: (:) [], ArgumentTransformationMetadataException
    + FullyQualifiedErrorId : RuntimeException

Poke

14:56

I find it interesting because I don't think many other languages do that

It's probably a good idea

TimmyD

Yeah, PowerShell is actually very strongly typed. It has very loose parsing and implicit casting, though.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@drobilc yes they do, wtf did you ping me for

Poke

On another note anyone use IntelliJ over eclipse?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Don't ping random people without asking please

drobilc

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Sorry, was just testing some code

TuxCopter

14:57

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It was a test

._.

Poke

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Looks like someones got a case of the Mondays

haw haw

(gets perturbed about being pinged. gets pinged 3 times)

El'endia Starman

@Poke The problem is being pinged for no reason.

Poke

I know

Not something to get all up in arms about though

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