The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-08-17 (page 2 of 4)

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12:00 PM

hai

I'm doing some web page trickery to keep a sticky navigation menu that breaks out of its parent..

I had more problems than I thought, and so far I solved them all by using more jquery (of course), but I kinda feel uncomfortable about it..

Releasing Helium Nuclei

i never use JS, ever™

well, good luck making non-trivial web pages then

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei I always, use JS, always™

@aditsu D:

-10/10 jQuery

well, in raw js it would probably be twice as long or worse

plus compatibility issues

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

We need more java golfers .... i mean bowlers

12:08 PM

@RohanJhunjhunwala I'm here, what's the challenge?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

We already got a java golfer on it, see if you can beat him @aditsu

0

Q: Calculate the difficulty of a Code Golf question

Briefing The difficulty of a Code Golf question can be calculated as such: clamp(ceil(((v/a)/700)*10), 0, 10) Where v is the number of views a question has and a is the number of answers a question has. Task Write a program that will take two integers (v and a) and output the difficulty in ...

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

oh

13

Q: Output "Fit" numbers

"Fit Numbers" Sam has a "brilliant" idea for compression! Can you help? Here is a rundown of Sam's compression scheme. First take in a base 10 representation of any natural number strictly smaller than 2^16, and write it as a binary string without any leading zeros. 1 -> 1 9 -> 1001 15 ->1111...

code-golf number sequence

A lamda expression might just beat some of the C# answers @aditsu

@MartinEnder I'm curious of what you think about my proposal tag fewest-operations

Releasing Helium Nuclei

atomic-code-golf?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

12:16 PM

@NathanMerril that may be a bit tough to quantify

fewest-operations measures the number of operations performed at runtime

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

for example

Math.pow(double a, double b) versus a + b

a power call gives 120 clock cycles

the official proposal is here:

2

A: Classification of code challenges

I propose a new tag, fewest-operations, to be used as a scoring tag. This means it shouldn't be used with code-golf or fastest-code. The OP needs to define what operation(s) are going to be scored. If there are multiple scored operations, then the OP can optionally define a different weight to...

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

addition is one clock cycle

the OP defines operations, and there are examples of it already occuring in the question

these challenges already exist

Releasing Helium Nuclei

12:17 PM

Code vs compiler optimizations

we're just making a tag for it

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

ok, I guess it code work

for example, this challenge is fewest-operations

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

Probably the op would link to a table of clock cycles for a given (reasonable) architecture

its not about clock cycles

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

12:19 PM

So operations like addition and subtraction are free?

yes. Any operations besides the ones they define are free

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

Ok, it just seems like it (could) turn into an X without Y challenge, but it does seem like it worked out for that question. So it does work, but could become dangerous if poorly thought out.

well, its worked a bunch of other times. if you look at the original question, there are 5 or so questions linked under "Fewest steps"

See maps of fantasy worlds created by bots via National Geographic.

9

and there are more I didn't link

12:22 PM

@RohanJhunjhunwala answered

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@aditsu looks good

I feel like there has to be a good way to golf it down

12:42 PM

@NathanMerrill that's actually the tag name I had in mind as well

sweet!

and as far as definition goes?

yeah looks good

ok cool. I'll give it a couple more hours, and then start retagging (slowly, so we don't clog up the front page)

I'd suggest making a list of all challenges to be retagged first

publicly?

in the same post?

12:46 PM

not necessarily, but you can if you want to. I just find it convenient to have such a list when I do larger retagging sprees.

ah ok.

βετѧ Λєҫαγ

0

A: Calculate the difficulty of a Code Golf question

javascript: 82 73 bytes (v,a)=>console.log("*".repeat(Math.min(Math.max(0,Math.ceil(v/a/70),10))) _saved some bytes after Adám pointed out I overlooked [censored], and the [censored]

What's with the [censored] bits?

Mine won't be too bad, as I just need to go through all of the code-challenges

well like you said there's the golf-cpu ones as well

yeah. I can't think of others, but I'll definitely make a list

12:48 PM

@βετѧΛєҫαγ Hahahahaha

You can always see them in the revision page

βετѧ Λєҫαγ

Ohh haha

@LeakyNun "clame"

also the original definition made a bit more sense (a general "clamp" function and specific min and max in the formula of the challenge)

13

Q: An optimization challenge with strange coins

You have n coins which each weigh either -1 or 1. Each is labelled from 0 to n-1 so you can tell the coins apart. You have one (magic) weighing device as well. At the first turn you can put as many coins as you like on the weighing device which is able to measure both negative and positive weig...

code-challenge math optimization

not sure about this one

@MartinEnder Fucking hell

would it be fewest-operations?

I'm leaning towards no, because it has a more complicated scoring mechanism

1:06 PM

Any native English speaker here?

@MartinEnder How would you translate "fucking hell" to German?

me

I'm not talking about

Fucking Hell is a German Pilsner or pale lager. It is named after the village of Fucking in Austria. The beer's name (which also plays on hell, the German word for 'pale' and a typical description of this kind of beer) was initially controversial. Both the local authorities in Fucking and the European Union's Trade Marks and Designs Registration Office initially objected to the name. It was eventually accepted and the lager is now sold internationally. Fucking Hell is a Pilsner with an alcohol content of 4.9%. The beer is not brewed in Fucking, and at the time of its launch the village had no brewery...

14

Q: "To death" vs "to the death"

Sometimes I see the former, as in "starve to death". But sometimes I see the latter as well, as in "fight to the death", or in the following quote: I wholly disapprove of what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it. – Evelyn Beatrice Hall When do I use which?

word-usage prepositions to-infinitive

> It is named after the village of Fucking in Austria.

What

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

wow

"to the death" is something that you do until the very end. (like "fight to the death"). "To death" is something that happens to you, and is the cause of your death

1:09 PM

Ah, I see

you should post an answer there

where as I could say "I will write to the death", but writing wouldn't actually be the cause

@LeakyNun Maulik pretty much has it.

English speakers (especially USians) love hyperbole

> the local authorities in Fucking […] objected to the name
like, seriously? lulz

@TimmyD I see

CJam question: I have a nested (2D) array of numbers, and I want to convert them to logical values. I'm using {{!!}%}% but it feels cumbersome. Any idea?

I think I found it: 1ffe< seems to work

1:24 PM

That wouldn't work with negatives though

@BusinessCat Thanks! Actually what I have is non-negative numbers

@BusinessCat then just ff!ff!

@LuisMendo ::g if nonnegative only

Anonymous

@AlexA. How often do you get "randomly" screened at airports?

@Sp3000 g is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks

1:29 PM

@Sp3000 @LuisMendo How does it work?

g is signum

@LeakyNun g is signum, so 0 or 1 for non-neg

Ninjad :-)

alright

: is "apply to each element of an array" when followed by a monadic function

Is there an easy way to reverse a string in CJam?

1:41 PM

@BusinessCat W%

@FryAmTheEggman genius

I mean I only know from reading it in Aditsu/Martin/Dennis's answers :P

Dog and dog owner injured in Victoria after cat attacks seven pit bulls

3

@BusinessCat You?

Now I remember: Cat's have 7 lives, right?

9 lives

Anonymous

@flawr TIL Meowth > Growlithe

Anonymous

1:45 PM

When dogs get hurt, they whimper and try to hide. When cats get hurt, they hiss and go super saiyan on whatever hurt them.

How about penguins?

Anonymous

They launch nukes

Releasing Helium Nuclei

Penguins vs gnus?

user image

Releasing Helium Nuclei

We didn't believe you at first, but we asked like three people who were at that party. They not only corroborated your story, but even said you totally mentioned wanting to start a company someday. Sorry! If this isn't enough money, let us know.

My Business Idea

1:50 PM

I had that idea 2 years ago

Releasing Helium Nuclei

@BusinessCat it was named "Business Idea", the new one is called Business Idea, old one had the new one's image, they renamed the old one

Are you guys talking about that old idea I had that one time?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr atta boy! I may or may not have had something to do with it.

@El'endiaStarman o_O

@BusinessCat Very nice approach here!

Anonymous

@Geobits I thought Xerox had the idea first

2:02 PM

... no

They clearly copied me.

3

Anonymous

I guess the average age in here is a bit low for that Xerox joke :P

I didn't even realize Xerox was age specific

I recently brought the average up a bit. Happy birthday me :/

Xerox itself isn't age specific. The Apple joke about it probably is.

Anonymous

Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corp.

Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corporation, 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) was a copyright infringement lawsuit in which Apple Computer, Inc. (now Apple Inc.) sought to prevent Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard from using visual graphical user interface (GUI) elements that were similar to those in Apple's Lisa and Macintosh operating systems. The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]...". In the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple alleging that Mac's GUI...

Anonymous

Gates to Jobs:

Anonymous

2:08 PM

> Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it.

I have an idea for a Traffic Simulator Mega-KoTH. Basically, you have 3 types of entries:
1. Takes a list of outside connections (and traffic density), and builds a road map, trying to maximize throughput
2. Simulates a traffic light, trying to minimize waiting time for cars.
3. Simulates a car, trying to get to its destination as fast as possible

Oh I missed that, guess I am too young

Considering that happened before I was born ;_;

@NathanMerrill I've been wanting to do #1 as a code-challenge for a while now, but laziness.

@Dennis Could you pull Jellyfish, please?

@Geobits I'm a bit worried about getting answers, as I'd have to get several answers of each type

Releasing Helium Nuclei

2:11 PM

@BusinessCat do you have any Business Ideas?

I'm not even sure if its a KoTH or not, now that I think about it. Submissions of the same type won't directly compete against each other

Anonymous

16

Q: Should multi-part challenges be allowed?

We occasionally have challenges which consist of multiple separate subchallenges, whose individual scores are simply combined at the end. These are often known as "golf courses". While these are often quite popular they do have some problems. Mainly it's not clear how we should deal with people c...

discussion scope

Hmm. Maybe use a default (or two) for each type, and remove them once one (or two) entries for that type are given? Not ideal, but I agree it'll be tough to get all three, especially in equal numbers.

any CMC?

Anonymous

There's no reason for that not to be 3 separate challenges

2:13 PM

@Mego this is a bit different than a multi-part challenge.

scoring between the challenges is completely independent

Anonymous

You're right. It's worse. You're putting 3 separate challenges together for no reason and asking for solutions to all 3, separately.

er, you don't have to submit to all 3

Anonymous

Even more reason for them to be 3 separate challenges

New challenge is 10 minutes

well, they would be 3 different posts

Anonymous

2:15 PM

Oh, I thought you were saying it would be 3-in-1

but cars from #3 would run on the roads from #1 with the lights of #2

so, the controller would run them all in tandem, but yeah, separate posts

Anonymous

So it would be a challenge series, then

kind of, except I'd post them all at once

because they are all interdependent, and it'd be cool if "Man, the winning cars are really messing up my lights, lets see if I can make it better"

but, since it would be 3 KoTHs at the same time, I'm a bit worried about getting submissions (especially because none of the submissions has trivial I/O)

@Geobits I'm not really sure if equal numbers is necessary.

Maybe not equal, but appropriate for each.

yeah

Anonymous

2:20 PM

It's hard enough trying to get answers to one reasonably-complex challenge. Have fun with 3.

yeah

Anonymous

If it's not "output this sequence/the nth element in this sequence" or "do this simple string manipulation" the vast majority of users ignore it

in The Periodic Table, 36 secs ago, by DEAD

http://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%22I+have+the+same+problem%22+is%3Aa

0

Q: Check if input is permutation of source

Inspired by Input ∩ Source Code. Task Your task is to determine whether the input is a permutation of the source code. Input A string. Input is flexible; it should be able to handle the character encoding used for the source code. Output You may only have two possible outputs, one wh...

code-golf quine

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

can you wait for NewMainPosts?

I like the 11s also, but it gets old.

TùxCräftîñg

plz halp

how do i use a layout with HAML

2:26 PM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ it's not my fault if it gets 11'd

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

yes, but it's your fault that the opportunity arises.

@LeakyNun Wow. Your ELL question went really HNQ

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

you can't just wait 5 minutes?

@DJMcMayhem thanks

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ nope

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

....

2:29 PM

Welcome to the site!

TùxCräftîñg

0

A: "To death" vs "to the death"

Death means dying but in your case the death is the end of life and not dying in reality

-_______-

I like ELL, I don't participate much anymore, but I used to be obsessed with it, and I've actually got swag coming in the mail right now. :)

@DJMcMayhem iċ þancie þē

TùxCräftîñg

nobody is familiar with HAML here?

brb

@LeakyNun Icelandic?

2:31 PM

@DJMcMayhem old english

Huh

user image

That is pronounced "Oldee english"

1

Q: Check if input is permutation of source

Inspired by Input ∩ Source Code. Task Your task is to determine whether the input is a permutation of the source code. Input A string. Input is flexible; it should be able to handle the character encoding used for the source code. Output You may only have two possible outputs, one wh...

code-golf quine

@DJMcMayhem i don't think so, but whatever

2:37 PM

how do you do a block of text (but not a code block)?

nevermind, found an example

@NathanMerrill The other kind of block is a quote block, which can cause confusion if used for things which aren't quotes

TùxCräftîñg

ßαčκ

@trichoplax If I'm using it for a tag description?

@NathanMerrill I'm no longer sure if I'm talking about the same thing. I meant the blocks that start with >

correct. I'm proposing a tag description, and using > to demarcate it

2:43 PM

I guess that's almost like a quote from the future, a proposed quote, so that might fit

@trichoplax The master is back

17

Q: "To death" vs "to the death"

Sometimes I see the former, as in "starve to death". But sometimes I see the latter as well, as in "fight to the death", or in the following quote: I wholly disapprove of what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it. – Evelyn Beatrice Hall When do I use which?

word-usage prepositions to-infinitive

Here please

@LeakyNun I only live here, I don't have any formal training...

@trichoplax please have a look anyway

I've always associated "to the death" with combat or conflict

"To death" is difficult in that it has two meanings

@Dennis Can you please pull Brachylog?

Releasing Helium Nuclei

2:47 PM

hAI

@Fatalize Could you answer a question about French?

@LeakyNun This is not really the best place for it but sure

@LeakyNun Actually the more I think about it the less I'm sure how to use it.

4

Q: Latin to French - evolution of certain forms of "FACERE > faire"

All forms of the Latin verb "FACERE" that went to French had a "c", but it has disappeared in all forms of the French verb "faire". In FACIS > fais, the "c" completely disappeared. In FACIUNT > font, the "c" also disappeared. In FACIAM > fasse, the "c" became "ss". I have noticed that some of...

latin french romance-languages evolution

actually, there's another use of "to the death"

I could say "To the death of King George!"

2:52 PM

@LeakyNun Never studied Latin or history of the French language so I'm probably not qualified to answer that

@NathanMerrill that's non idiomatic

@Fatalize ok, thanks

@NathanMerrill "the death of King George" is an actual thing

and "to" meaning you want that thing

roughly

I think that's what he was saying

right, its not an idiom, but it is a meaning

well... non idiomatic usages doesn't count?

alright, thanks then

ok :)

2:55 PM

@LeakyNun What is your native language? Mandarin?

@DJMcMayhem cantonese

Oh, okay. Isn't that mostly spoken in Hong Kong? (I'm fairly ignorant about linguistics, so forgive me if I ask anything dumb)

yes

and no question is dumb

Oh believe me, there are definitely dumb questions. :)

I have some friends that are triple citizens (Hong Kong, Canada, US) and so I know a tad about Cantonese from them.

nice

show me

3:00 PM

My Cantonese? No way. I said I know a little bit about it, not I know a little bit of it.

:)

@DJMcMayhem what do you know about it

Just the basics. It's not as popular as Mandarin, mostly spoken in Hong Kong, etc.

define popular

number of speakers

I see

3:03 PM

for languages, popularity is easy to define :)

Widely spoken. Iirc mandarin has a billion native speakers

that's true

a fun fact for you

while english uses a basically base-1000 counting

we count in base-10000

@LeakyNun Doesn't your challenge have all the usual problems of generalised quines? Or do you have any reference solution that isn't "standard quine + check whether two strings are permutations of each other"?

@MartinEnder yes

0

Q: Should C# answers include usings or be fully qualified?

I like to answer in C# pretty much exclusively so far. Whenever I answer I either include the using statements required or fully qualify anything else. I often see a lot of C# answers that do not do this and people are always unsure in the comments as to whether or not they should include them. ...

discussion answers

3:09 PM

@MartinEnder for my next proposal, I'm trying to come up with a good solid definition of "smallest output". I realized that there are really two different submissions here, effectively smallest-atomic-output (counts the number of X) and smallest-output (counts the number of bytes). Should these be split up in your opinion?

@LeakyNun fascinating. Is that for Chinese in general or specific to Cantonese?

@DJMcMayhem Chinese in general

@NathanMerrill how many challenges do we have for the former?

and other languages heavily influenced by Chinese (Japanese etc)

I'm more worried about how this conflicts with metagolf

3:10 PM

I'd actually say there's more smallest-atomic-output than smallest-output

(also, there's also the counter parts of largest)

Do I need to consider new lines too? — Rod 17 mins ago

What do you guys think?

yeah, metagolf definitely has overlap, as it's a smallest-output with the additional restriction that the output must run

@LeakyNun How do Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc. relate? I mean obviously they seem similar to an outsider, but do they have a common root? Or is one the inspiration for the others?

@DJMcMayhem japanese/korean borrowed a lot of stuff from Chinese

in the Tang dynasty

kind of like how English borrowed a lot from Latin

including the numeral system

Wasn't it German first before it was English?

3:14 PM

I know Korean is an isolate, though (meaning it's not "descended" from any other language). Not sure about the other two.

what do you mean?

@DJMcMayhem They're both Germanic

@Doorknob isolate can still borrow

@LeakyNun Yes, but they don't have a "common root" like @DJMcMayhem asked

@Doorknob alright

3:15 PM

@Doorknob I knew that but doesn't germanic mean "Evolved out of German?"

No.

no

it means it and german shares a common ancestor

we do not have direct evidence of it

but we reconstruct based on its descendants

and name it proto-german

Which more or less came from Latin?

both are equal

the common ancestor between the germanic languages and latin is way back

This chart may interest you.

3:18 PM

@DJMcMayhem An example: English "day" came from Proto-Germanic *dagaz

German "Tag" came from the same Proto-Germanic word *dagaz

"Germanic languages" is named Germanic just because German is a representative

@Doorknob Wow. Information overload.

All this talk about linguistics makes me want to actually learn another language

linguistics is much more interesting than learning languages

@DJMcMayhem are you with me?

^^

@Zgarb Done.

@Fatalize Done.

Thanks!

3:21 PM

@NathanMerrill I spend far more time than I'd like to admit reading through various linguistics-related Wikipedia articles. :P

@LeakyNun what do you mean?

@DJMcMayhem it means do you understand what i'm saying

Yeah, I think so

alright

@DJMcMayhem any question?

@Doorknob Shall we test each other?

on etymology of English words

(no cheating!)

Uhhh. I'm not too familiar with that kind of stuff :P

3:25 PM

@Doorknob What are you familiar with?

I'm more interested in phonology and grammar and things like that.

so, basically conlangs :)

@HelkaHomba Can I have the copyright to create questions out of your minecraft - another adventure series ?

@Doorknob define things like that

@LeakyNun Err... less of the pragmatics and semantics part of linguistics, and more of the other more theoretical parts

3:29 PM

@Doorknob alright...

let's test each other in phonology then

@MartinEnder another question: is this question a smallest-operations or smallest-atomic-output?

er, nevermind, its definitely the latter

your program can search through a bunch of solutions, and only print out the best solution

it's also smallest-output ;)

it's a good point though, I'm sure cases like this might cause confusion in the future

right, but I'd consider it atomic, because the challenge would be no different if I were to print "SwapPopSwap", though that would ruin the byte counting

@NathanMerrill sure, I think the confusion between fewest-operations and smallest-atomic-output is a bigger issue.

I agree.

3:36 PM

@flawr third time's a charm

user image

Guess what this is. (Challenge idea)

actually, I don't think we've had a challenge like this, but most-operations might make an interesting challenge

@flawr post it

aka, if a particular operation makes keeping within a certain constraint tough

@Dennis Thanks

3:48 PM

eh, they really are different types of challenges

@flawr I dunno. I think "Guess what this is." would be a pretty off-topic challenge for PPCG. ;-)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

i.imgur.com/sKiw8uV.gifv

lol

@flawr It looks logarithmic.

I'm reminded of sorting animations.

hehe me too, but its not that

pretty sure

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Aug '1617

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

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