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12:03 PM
Cat spies
 
The extension of dc programs is .dc, right?
 
@CrazyPython ...?
 
they're spying on us... they know...
 
silly tinfoils
 
12:16 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

CrazyPythonGolf a golf-scoring program! code-golf Given a space delimited array of integers, find the smallest number. It's that simple. [Meta] This may in fact be a duplicate. Please tell me if so.

 
Stack Cats stiristics 101: stackcats.tryitonline.net/#code=LQ&args=LW5E&debug=on creates a 1.
The code for both of these programs is:
-

!
 
Have there been any neural network challenges?
 
Wait, you should have said "hi all"... >_>
hi part of all
 
hi all
so sorry! :(
I also started with a lower case letter. My standards have collapsed.
 
A program such as -! will break:
Error: program is not symmetric | cirtemmys ton si margorp :rorrE
@MartinEnder lol at the error message :P
 
12:27 PM
but closed
there are also some machine learning challenges', but none that I know of specifically about NNs
 
oh it's a shame it was closed!
 
@Lembik hi
@Lembik I had an interesting question
let's say I give you a bunch of rubik's cube moves
U, R, U', D, L for example
then doing those moves would be 1 step
now the question is, after how many steps are we back at the start (what is the period)
 
This could be an interesting code golf/fastest code challenge. :)
 
another question
what is the maximum possible period?
 
^ pretty sure I read studies on this
The Rubik’s Cube group is a group ( G , ⋅ ) {\displaystyle (G,\cdot )} that corresponds to the set G {\displaystyle G} of all cube moves on the Rubik's Cube mechanical puzzle with the group operation ⋅ {\displaystyle \cdot } being the concatenation of cube moves. With the solved position as a starting point, there is a one-to-one correspondence between each of the legal positions of the Rubik's Cube and the elements of ...
"The largest order of an element in G is 1260" is that it?
 
12:34 PM
A variant of the avocad?
 
@Fatalize I believe so
 
@Adnan Yes, but more annoying, if that's even possible.
 
@orlp I think this has been posted already
 
8
Q: Orders of moves in the Rubik's cube

Colonel PanicPlaying with my Rubik's cube, I was thinking of facts about it that are immediate to mathematicians but novel to others. Here's one: Given a Rubik's cube in the solved state, any sequence of moves, if repeated long enough, will eventually return the cube back to the solved state To a mathematic...

 
@orlp Here it is
 
12:37 PM
@TimmyD the all caps burns
 
@TimmyD Far more annoying, full caps are terrible
 
@MartinEnder yes
 
@orlp well yeah that's how you helped :P
 
1:00 PM
If I post a hard codegolf challenge in the sandbox, would there be anyone, who's interested in it?
Involving a lot of math
 
I believe there are certainly people on this site who would be interested in "hard" math.
 
Peter Taylor
 
In hard, I actually mean 4 dimensional linear algebra
 
@orlp I love the question but I am not a rubik's cube person sadly
@Bálint the answer is maybe yes
@Bálint I have had completely awesome answers.. but only after adding a bounty
let me find an example...codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/77051/… You don't get much more awesome than that
 
@MartinEnder how?
 
1:14 PM
Ummmm, by typing words in this chat I guess.
 
@MartinEnder how?
 
@orlp By pressing keys.
:P
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 how?
 
@MartinEnder did you change your name recently?
did you get married?
 
1:21 PM
@orlp By pushing buttons corresponding to the letters with your fingers.
 
regex enabled search in stack exchange
 
@orlp I'm not sure what you want to hear. We were discussing computability of bijections and involutions which helped sort out Turing completeness and some design aspects of Stack Cats.
 
:P
@Lembik yes
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 to both?
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 how?
 
1:22 PM
@Lembik yes
 
congratulations :)
 
@MartinEnder ok then
 
@Lembik thanks :)
 
do you have pictures? I want to see martin in a suit lol
 
@MartinEnder Online interpreter?
 
1:22 PM
I hope this doesn't mean less time on ppcg :)
 
@MartinEnder If not I can write one for you
 
@LeakyNun ^^
 
we already lost peter taylor from chat.. one more genius and it would all collapse!
 
@MartinEnder Then put the link to the answer?
Error: program is not symmetric | cirtemmys ton si margorp :rorrE
 
1:23 PM
I can imagine martin, in a suit, wearing a scarf
 
@orlp I feel a popcon coming on :)
 
@LeakyNun Program is not symmetric | cirtemmys ton si margorP 55283203:
 
the program is 904 byte long
5
A: "Hello, World!"

Martin EnderStack Cats, 904 + 3 = 907 bytes (-!)*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*]<(*)-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*]<-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*]<-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-!*-...

 
I'll add the link on the next update of the answer. I'm down to 664 bytes, but there's still a lot of room for improvement.
@Lembik definitely not ;)
 
1:32 PM
How do you minus one?
 
phew!
I hope that was in the prenup :)
 
@LeakyNun -!
 
@MartinEnder while making it symmetric?
 
@MartinEnder did you ever hear back from mathematica about the bug?
I really want to pose a challenge to implement the radix-2 Cooley Tukey FFT algorithms in a purely functional way
but I worry....
codegolf I mean
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Kevin CruijssenExecute sub-sequential mathematical operands and print sum-result code-golfmatharithmetic Last time when I tried to come up with something easy that wasn't a duplicate, it ended up being way too hard.. So hopefully this time it's indeed something newcomers can try as well. (And it isn't a dub y...

 
1:34 PM
@LeakyNun well that's the challenge in using it, isn't it? ;)
 
@MartinEnder I don't get it. If pAq can minus a number by 1, then what can add 1 to a number?
 
qAp?
 
But is it written that "any snippet of commands can be undone by mirroring it"...
and the mirror of pAq is exactly pAq
 
well yeah
oh
 
@LeakyNun is pAq xor?
 
1:40 PM
I assume there are two definitions of mirror?
 
@orlp pAq minus a number by 1, let's say
 
q is the mirror of p but qAp is the mirror of pAq maybe?
 
no way...
 
that's the only thing I can think of that makes sense
 
That's how I think it is: there is no "minus 1" program in stackcats. pAq would be "toggle between 0 and -1"...
 
1:42 PM
Well, the middle bit is where the magic happens.
 
"This means that the string of commands is reversed and all characters that come in symmetric pairs are swapped ((), {}, [], <>, \/)"
This doesn't include letters so that means the mirror of the program pAq is qAp
 
p sets up A so that q gives the desired result
 
I posted my challenge on the sandbox
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

BálintDraw a hypercube/tesseract code-golfmathematicsgeometry[graphical-output] Your task in this challenge is to draw a 4 dimensional wireframe hypercube or tesseract. Input Your input is 4 separate numbers, each of them is between 0 (inclusively) and 360 (exclusively). They represent the rotation...

 
@Fatalize p and q are variables
 
1:44 PM
@LeakyNun well then it doesn't make sense :p
 
@Fatalize "To ensure full reversibility, Stack Cats has no I/O commands, as these side-effects cannot be reversed cleanly."
so I think I'm correct
 
probably
which makes it a lot less cool :p
 
and I'll write one (online interpreter) anyway xd
 
I don't even see any reference to A in the doc anyway
 
@Fatalize They are strings of letters... used to represent any program
For example in the program (T]I[T), p=(T], A=I, q=[T)
 
1:53 PM
@LeakyNun I'm not sure that question is answerable. pAq computes an involution so it necessarily has to do more to the global memory state than just subtracting 1.
 
@MartinEnder I think I worked out the answer already. There's no program that minus a number by one; there's only a program which toggles between 0 and -1
 
Well there is, but it also does other things that don't affect the output.
 
@MartinEnder I mean a full program
 
Yeah
<(>!-<)*(>-!<)> works, for instance
 
wait, is there input or not?
 
1:57 PM
There is. You said full program, right?
 
Oh, I misread something
How does it work?
 
The () is used as a conditional whose condition is false initially and we use the centre command to toggle it to true so that this part is only executed in the second half.
You can basically write any asymmetric program like this, but the interesting question is whether it's possible to do it in fewer bytes using both halves.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ GᴏʟғᴇʀEven or odd? codegolfcatalog-challenge Note that tags in italics are non-existent tags I think would fit perfectly into this community (I don't have enough rep to create tags). There are not duplicates: The shortest code to tell if a number is even or odd You need to write a pro...

 
Do we have "Mirror a string" challenge? i.e. reverse but with swapping brackets and stuff
 
What the hell is a "catalog-challenge"
 
2:08 PM
catalog-challenge
 
stackcats-alog-challenge
 
22
Q: Does PPCG fulfil a role as a catalogue for golfed solution of standard programming exercises?

Martin EnderRosetta Code collects solutions to standard programming exercises in hundreds of programming languages. However, it focuses on "good" or idiomatic solutions in those languages. I'm not aware of a similar catalogue from a golfing perspective. Is PPCG capable of fulfilling that role? Do we have cha...

^ The original discussion that led to catalog challenges.
 
pls halp i has too much tv trops how fix
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Just don't view TV Tropes and you'll be fine. :P
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ get a better tv
 
2:13 PM
@PhiNotPi ...
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 to late
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I just was... trolling >:P
 
...
okai
Also, I have a humble Notepad++ plugin for making any buffer a worksheet.
However, it has their own system, not Mathematica.
But I still like it. :)
 
2:38 PM
0
Q: tag (main site) [codegolf]

Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ GᴏʟғᴇʀI would like to propose a new tag: codegolf (main). It should be merged with code-golf to avoid confusion errors. I'm not allowed to create this by myself because the difference is the dash only, so I raise it on Meta. I'm not sure if this is the right place to propose for tags.

 
0
Q: Even or odd number?

Eʀɪᴋ ᴛʜᴇ Gᴏʟғᴇʀ There are not duplicates: The shortest code to tell if a number is even or odd You need to write a program or a function, unnamed or named, which outputs (functions can also return) whether a number is even or odd. Outputs must be different for even and odd. You may choose not to...

 
@EʀɪᴋᴛʜᴇGᴏʟғᴇʀ what is the point of leaving a challenge in the sandbox for 51 minutes and then ignoring the feedback???
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you broke jolf again
 
> If you don't mind about -1 rep, please downvote answers not following this rule.
:/
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Code %x2 (which I know should work) gives x.step is not a function.
Code 1 gives same error.
 
3:35 PM
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 should work on all
even windows when run in a bash emulator
 
but idk how to test that
 
I'll ask.
Is there anyone who has Windows, a bash emulator and Node?
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 you don't need node
 
How don't you need Node?
 
3:41 PM
Malik
 
@Upgoat Malik?
How exactly?
I finally got an avocad! :D
 
currently it auto install node and it should work on all distros.
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 \o/
I'd like it to preferably compile to a binary but that'll come after I fix the workflow
 
@Upgoat When do you change your name back BTW?
Because the slogan "Programming and goats in different directions" doesn't quite work this way
 
55 more rep
;-)
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Juic it
 
3:53 PM
@Bálint when it lets me, SE limits how often I can change my name
 
Took me a few seconds to get this one, but it's so good... imgur.com/gallery/mXBwdps
 
@Bálint Already in progress.
 
@TimmyD >_>
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 :O you juic avocad
 
After how many upvotes should I post the sandboxed challenge?
 
@Bálint It's a matter of days, not upvotes.
 
4:01 PM
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Do you have any feedback on this challenge:
2
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

BálintDraw a hypercube/tesseract code-golfmathematicsgeometrygraphical-output Your task in this challenge is to draw a 4 dimensional wireframe hypercube or tesseract. Input Your input is 4 separate numbers, each of them is between 0 (inclusively) and 360 (exclusively). They represent the rotation o...

 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Well, not necessarily. If you don't get any comments but do get a bunch of upvotes within a couple of hours, it's probably solid enough to post. If you want the best usage, yes, wait a couple of days.
 
@TimmyD If you get -55 instead you can have a nice palindrome :P
 
@Bálint Made avocad juic: imgur.com/a/yuFjr
2
 
@Geobits Thanks for your pessimism. :D
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 That looks strange? Are your sure you want to drink that?
 
4:06 PM
I did. :D
 
That doesn't look like juice so much as milk.
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Well, that's your problem
 
It is avocad juic, according to wikiHow.
 
Oh well if wikihow said it it's obviously completely and perfectly correct.
 
Someone downvoted my challenge. Would be nice if he told me why
 
4:09 PM
@Geobits Did you know that that makes some people uncomfortable?
 
@Geobits s/-55/Geobitsd/
2
 
@TimmyD I did not not know that.
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 @EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ \o/ \o/
 
@Upgoat So, Cheddar is finished?
 
Yes. Just checked the fridge. No Cheddar there.
 
4:14 PM
Stop thinking of Cheddar as actual cheese. -_-
Not that I hate it, but still.
 
Actually, better is that if you don't want bad cheese puns and such, don't name it cheddar. Seriously.
 
As of release v0.0.0-alpha, 42% of chat think of Cheddar as actual cheese.
 
Cheddar is actual cheese.
 
That is expected to change to 0% by release v1.0.0.
@Geobits @Upgoat It is not, is it?
 
That's like saying java isn't really coffee o_O
 
4:18 PM
@Geobits I like how you snuck in puns about Mego's languages.
 
@TimmyD So you think of Cheddar as actual cheese too, don't you?
 
@TimmyD Yea... it felt a little awkward getting Actually in there. It could probably use a rephrasing but meh.
 
@Geobits I thought it was an island in southeast Asia?
 
That tacks on another 4%, so that 46% of chat think of Cheddar as actual cheese.
 
I'd hope everyone realizes that Cheddar is an actual type of cheese, to be honest.
 
4:20 PM
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 no :/ though if someone finds me a snippet to copy A JS class recursively then yes
@Geobits is this what you do to the devs when down votes stop working ._.
 
@TimmyD Yes, but the island is made of a giant mound of coffee beans, so it works.
@Upgoat Nah, that's just Jared. He's mad because people don't like him having aides and wanting everyone else to have aides too.
 
@Upgoat :DDD
Looks better than my attempt. >_>
 
<_< better than my nonexistent attempt
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Did you document your attempt? >_>
 
@Geobits O_o
 
4:24 PM
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 yes
but too much PII
 
Personal Information Information?
 
Identifiable
 
phosphorus irrigation per inch?
 
That's PIPI
 
you usually don't included the per in an acronym
 
4:25 PM
MPH, FPS... etc
 
psi?
 
DPG (Downvotes per Geobits)
 
@Upgoat Yep, that's one. You said usually :P
 
:|
same thing
 
: is not the same thing as |
>_>
 
4:28 PM
ಠ_ಠ
 
PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> ':'-eq'|'
False
 
Answer: use jquery
 
@Upgoat jQuery has no method to copy a JavaScript object.
 
Stem cells might also help, but I'm not sure if all the research is in on that.
 
4:29 PM
Anyway class =/= object
 
Well, darn.
 
@Bálint I wasn't the downvoter, but it could be because it's non-obvious how the rotation(s) happen(s).
@Geobits Especially not in the U.S.
 
Also, I can finally express my opinion on questions and answers on Stack Overflow.
 
Is that really a good thing though?
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 that's copying a class. not an instance of one
 
4:36 PM
@Upgoat You said:
> copy A JS class recursively.
 
0
Q: Abacabadabacaba

7H3_H4CK3RI recently stumbled on the fractal word abacabadabacaba..., which is a 67 million letter word according to a pattern. The full word is actually the 26th word in a series as follows: A aBa abaCaba abacabaDabacaba abacabadabacabaEabacabadabacaba abacabadabacabaeabacabadabacabaFabacabadabacaba...

 
@NewMainPosts Interesting, I went to mark a close vote and got an error something like "You can only open the close dialog every 3 seconds" ... turns out it was already closed.
 
@TimmyD What's not obvious in rotation
 
Meaning, how does a rotation through w translate to visually on screen?
Verification that it's following the right-hand-rule for x,y,z would be good, too.
 
@TimmyD I posted the matrices for the rotation
Rotating a vector with a matrix is as simple, as multiplying a 1*4 and a 4 * 4 matrix
The only problem, is that I actually need to create the program, to create testcases
 
4:49 PM
Like I said, I didn't downvote it, just offering some possibilities for what may have gone through the other person's mind.
 
5:00 PM
I extended my javascript Math library with the rotation around the W axis
 
@Upgoat?
@Upgoaaaaat!
 
Strange. Probably chat ees ded, but not, because the last message was just posted.
 
5:26 PM
New rule: no one gets to say "chat ees ded" or any variation thereof in The Nineteenth Byte (TNB) unless said chat room has been totally silent, excepting bots, for a full 24 hours such that the text "1 day later..." appears without being posted by any user.
Sometimes talking in legalese is fun. :P
 
@El'endiaStarman
Only mods of the parent site can set rules.
 
@El'endiaStarman Please increase threshold to 1 month.
 
@flawr Please don't. :P
 
@flawr The room would get frozen after two weeks. That'd work too, but TNB is so active that I think a day suffices. :P
 
CS question. Say I have an array of integers with potentially a lot (but maybe no) duplicated elements. The duplicated element will always appear in runs, e.g. 5 2 2 2 7 7. What's the most efficient sorting algorithm for this type of array? Is there any that can take advantage of the runs of repeated numbers?
 
5:29 PM
@El'endiaStarman Question: please don't.
 
@AlexA. Timsort (what Python's built-in uses) handles already-sorted runs of numbers well by design. That might suffice?
 
I'll look into that, thanks!
Are there any "standard" algorithms, e.g. quicksort, heap sort, etc. that would also be reasonable?
 
@AlexA. I'm sorry for starting that. I did not expect that reaction.
 
Haha no problem. It happens.
FWIW I wouldn't say you started it
 
@AlexA. It seems like insertion sort would be good for handling runs of duplicate numbers. Source: sorting-algorithms.com
 
5:33 PM
Nice, thanks again!
 
Fwiw the one time I remember you closing my question, you were very fair and reasonable about it.
 
Run one step of bogosort and then use any standard sorting algorithm. This way you can avoid looking for things particular to runs.
2
sort(shuffle(array))
 
@El'endiaStarman I oppose that rule.
 
@Geobits Spoken like a true mathematician. Reduce the problem to one already solved!
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 of
 
5:37 PM
@Geobits Thanks.
 
@El'endiaStarman That's probably the only time anyone has ever accused me of speaking like a true mathematician :P
 
0
Q: Minimize linear slack cutting standard to custom length

amphibientLet's say you are tasked with installing baseboard in a house and there will be n pieces of all different length to be installed, B1, B2,...,Bn. Stock baseboard comes only in x stock sizes at the store, S1, S2,...,Sx. Come up with an algorithm which minimizes slack, assuming that each baseboard...

 
Say I have a math puzzle. It's focused on using a small set of operators to define another operator. Does it belong on puzzling.SE or math.SE?
 
@AlexA. Any restrictions on the range?
 
Nope
 
5:50 PM
@El'endiaStarman I seriously oppose that rule?
Wat, El'endia Starman really ignored me?
 
@AlexA. A modified quicksort, where you've got (less-than), (equal-to), and (greater-than) the pivot might leverage the runs pretty good.
 
@AlexA. Do you expect only very few distinct values in the whole list?
 
Yes
 
Hayyyyy @VTCAKAVSMoACE
 
@Geobits Flawless
 
5:53 PM
Can someone test this answer on a Windows machine? I think this might be unix-specific, but I'm not sure.
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Heyoooo
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE which language is it?
oh nvm
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE It's Java.
    Hamlet:  O fuck.
             [Exit Hamlet]
 
@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 ...I know that.
I'm seeing if the file separator "/" alters the behavior of the code.
 
No, / works on Windows
 
@AlexA. Okie, thanks.
 
5:56 PM
The only situation in which / doesn't work for file paths on Windows is for UNC paths. Those need to be backslashes.
 
I was worried by className.replace('/', '.')
 
Just got another necromancer badge.
 

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