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05:01
@AlexA. nope, it fails miserably
Haha then I guess that's your answer :P
-bash: $([[ -f foo ]] && a || b): ambiguous redirect
goddamit
\o/ I got it to work
Nice. How'd you end up doing it?
echo "asdf" >> $([[ -f a ]] && echo a || echo b)
05:13
:D
0/10 needs more asdf
;_;
Can anyone who has a Mac / Linux paste this magic code into your terminal to install Cheesecloth and tell me if it works?:
git clone github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheesecloth.git && cd Cheesecloth && npm install && grunt install && echo -e "alias sudo='sudo '\nalias cpm='`pwd`/dist/bin/cpm'" >> $([[ -f ~/.bash_profile ]] && echo ~/.bash_profile || echo ~/.bashrc)
while(true){asdf+="asdf"}
@Downgoat I have a Mac but will this F up the computer?
no
it will just install a cpm command which is the Cheddar package manager
Paste the command to uninstall it and then I'll do it
05:18
@Downgoat I have neither npm nor grunt installed so it wouldn't work for me anyway
@Downgoat you can make a custom package.json call to do everything after npm command
does anyone know a good bootstrap palette picker?
@Maltysen Eyeballs
@AlexA. :/
05:19
my eyeballs are not good enough
Ask Mego, he's colorblind
@AlexA. you just need to install npm
I don't want that npm trash on my computer
@Quill yeah, I know. It already does but the grunt install is configurable
Node.js : Just install more packages™
05:20
@AlexA. ಠ_ಠ
npm is great it's just all those other things
rm -rf Cheesecloth
rm -rf $(which npm)
Is there a way to make tree structures without actually coding it for a question?
What do you mean?
05:24
On my question someone asked if they could print tree structures instead of ascii art
So i was going to change my examples
Your challenge but if it were me I'd say no because that sounds sketchy
@Quill ;_; y u do dis
It sounds like the person came up with a way to do it without expending any effort
@JoshK you can do this but probably not what you are asking
@JoshK Well, we got our answer. The "tree structure" answer has been posted.
ಠ_ಠ
05:26
haha ok
yeah, I got on the robotics team :D
@AlexA. I wish uninstalling npm was that easy...
\o/ Congrats!
I thought trees were like XML, but maybe it's the other way around
05:29
@AshwinGupta NOICE!
@Phrancis thanks :D
honestly just so relieved.
yeah im just going to leave it
I was getting myself ready for dissapointment.
But, none of my friends got on it execpt 1.. :(
but whatever.
You could've just challenged them to a Golf-off if you didn't get accepted
All data should be in tables always. Relationships are far too complicated.
05:30
@Quill LOL
I'd loose though.
I know freeking java.
@Phrancis s/All data should be in tables always. //
The person would have to be a total idiot to loose against that =/
I suppose I could use my limited python knowledge
or maybe, IK, brainfuck.
@Quill brb making a database in Excel
05:31
ok byeee people. I'ma play more Overwatch
@Phrancis I actually considered it the other day... to be fair, the alternative was MySQL
@Quill ಠ_ಠ
MySQL is far superior at being a database than Excel is
Well, yeah, Google Apps doesn't provide a DB style thing, so you gotta set up your own DB or use Google Sheets (Excel)
Yeah, I'd definitively use MySQL over the alternative
@Quill what is wrong with MySQL?
Isn't that like what everyone uses for databases
05:35
The main problem with MySQL is PHP
I once made a MySQL app in PHP
it was a nightmare
There are other problems but they somewhat pale in comparison
@Downgoat Most of the DB stuff I do is in T-SQL or SQLite, but like @Phrancis said, PHP and MySQL are often lumped together; Misery loves company
MySQL is lacking some very good features that are found in other database systems, but on the other hand, it's free and open source
PostgreSQL is also free and open source, but it's much more steep to learn than MySQL
@Quill Part of the reality of it is that, when you get the PHP starter pack thing, it ships with MySQL bundled, so, it's easy to just go with it and not look for database alternatives
For me, I see PHP+Shoddy code+MySQL+SQL injections in query strings
05:40
But, I think what it boils down to is T-SQL people are spoiled because it's so much simpler
What is so bad about MySQL?? All you need in a database is rows and columns right?
@Downgoat Not quite, in practice, but that's true in theory
@Phrancis They also enjoy the C# association + elitism
Does anyone in here know Matlab?
@Quill Meh, C# has as many bad coders as any other language
05:42
@Phrancis yeah but the language is nicer, I suppose
@AlexA. barely
@Quill Depends what you compare it to I guess
@Downgoat The worst thing about MySQL that I can think of is the subqueries syntax. Most other database engines offer syntactic sugar to work around it
Other databases have abstractions for it
@Phrancis I wish I had an idea of what you are saying
SELECT Foo, Bar FROM /*subquery incoming*/ (SELECT A, B FROM MyTable)
^ the thing in the parens is a subquery
That's bad?
I just thought that was how you do a subquery
I mean, with T-SQL you can use CTEs but that seems like overkill most of the time
05:48
It can get really confusing and difficult, since database people usually don't know what code is
Some DBAs who have to write SQL all the time have some of the worst SQL I've seen
Abstracting to a CTE or some other thing, makes it to where you can give names to things, and such
No conventions, chaotic capitalization
DBAs in general don't code, so it's little surprise the little code they write is garbage
I bet sysadmin code is pretty terrible too
Well, the guy in particular I'm thinking of is a director of bioinformatics for a research institution. He writes tons and tons of SQL and it's all chaos
Wonderful guy
Don't get me wrong
Just... the SQL... ._.
05:51
Is he writing business logic code?
Being a DBA I don't think requires a whole lot of coding, in general
No, combining tables of gene stuff and calculating markers and things
All in T-SQL
Combining tables may not be business logic, but calculating stuff definitively sounds like it is
Hey @Fatalize is here. Are you one of the people here who's really good at Matlab?
@Phrancis What do you mean by business logic?
@AlexA. Logic that is not about database administration/maintenance
Oh. Yeah. He wears all sorts of hats and I think one of them may be DBA but I think the majority of what he does it smash gene stuff together.
05:54
@AlexA. No I'm not
Okay
Sorry to bother you
@AlexA. I feel bad for the guy, being a DBA and a SQL (business) dev are very different things
At the same time, writing good (maintainable) and fast SQL code sometimes clash, and also, there is no such thing as standards for SQL code, so, all of it looks different
I'd love to write a SQL style guide but I think I'm the only person who writes it how I do
That's kinda what a style guide is for
06:00
And, to be fair, a lot of SQL devs write their code to the extent it works, and then commit it and move on
I don't write SQL at work; I have Entity Framework
select distinct a.Column1,
    a.Column2,
    a.Column3
from Table1 a
inner join (
    select min(Column1) as M
    from Table2
) b
on a.Column1 = b.M
where a.Column2 = 'Oh'
    and a.Column3 = 'hello'
This is how I structure my SQL
@Phrancis Neither the company I work for nor the institution the guy I mentioned works for use version control for their code. ._.
@Quill That sounds suspiciously like some JavaScript garbage
@AlexA. that's an OK style, better than most I see, but don't like a few things about it
Give me your code review, please :D
As a frequenter of CR
@AlexA. No, it transforms all your tables into class models so you do all the operations on in memory objects, it makes foreign keys really easy as well
06:04
Oh, huh. Okay.
a.Column1 should be on a new line, not on the same line as the query's select modifiers
Okay, I can get behind that
The keyword as should be used for table aliases as well as column aliases
I thought there were some systems on which as didn't work for tables
And I think the join conditions should be indented from the join clause
06:06
Oh gross, I don't think I could do that
This is how I usually format SQL
By mixing tabs and spaces? D:
Ew who put tabs in my code
06:09
select distinct
    a.Column1,
    a.Column2,
    a.Column3
from
    Table1 as a
    inner join (
        select min(Column1) as M
        from Table2
    ) as b
        on a.Column1 = b.M
where
    a.Column2 = 'Oh'
    and a.Column3 = 'hello'
There we go
That's not bad but I really dislike the indented join condition for some reason
cuz the subquery I bet
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
var newUserPendingInvite = new VendorUserPendingInvite
{
    VendorID = vendor.ID,
    UserRole = session.Single<UserRole>(x => x.UserRoleID == request.UserRoleID),
    UniqueID = Guid.NewGuid(),
    SentByUserID = session.All<User>(x => x.Username == request.UsernameSentBy).Select(x => x.ID).SingleOrDefault(),
    EmailAddress = request.Username,
    Status = (byte)Enums.Status.Active,
    CreatedAt = DateTime.now
};
session.Add(newUserPendingInvite);
session.CommitChanges();
But, if you've had to deal with complicated join conditions with multiple expressions you'll probably appreciate the indent
06:11
EF is magic
I would have assumed you meant something like
In any case, the only thing that I see is consistent with SQL code is inconsistency
on
    a.x = b.x
    and a.y = b.y
Hello
hai
from
  Table1 as one
  join Table2 as two
    on one.Id = two.Id
    and one.Foo = 'Bar'
@AlexA. That^ is usually how I write it
06:13
How often are there flame wars on CR over style for languages with no accepted style, e.g. SQL?
LOL
Well, actually, SQL formatting is pretty far down the list of holy wars on CR
@Quill will back me up I'm sure
@AlexA. Most of the suggestions we make aren't style based
@Phrancis yeah, the biggest holy wars are (Java vs. C#) and (JavaScript vs. the world)
Anonymous
In the Java vs C# war, everyone loses
Anonymous
C# is slightly less bad
Anonymous
06:15
But still not good
It's alright. I mean, you're stuck with .NET and a kind of weird, semi-fixed Java, but other than that it's fine.
@Mego All depends on your definition of "bad" that's how it often starts
At least C# doesn't try to tell me it lives in my car
Anonymous
Being stuck with .NET is not such a good thing
Anonymous
I think the CLR is a neat idea in theory. In practice, it's worthless.
06:17
Hence why I said "other than that" :P
I dislike .NET
(Sorry SE, I know you guys can't get enough)
Room owners might consider moving this to CR chat (joking)
Anonymous
The only benefit to .NET is that, if you target .NET, basically every post-NT Windows machine can run it
I think what Mego is trying to say is that everyone should use JavaScript :D
2 mins ago, by Mego
In the Java vs C# war, everyone loses
Anonymous
That comes with the downside of needing a separate msvc++ install for every piece of software
06:19
Surely Mego would argue that everyone should use Python before he'd argue for JS. :P
Anonymous
No, not everybody should use Python
Anonymous
Some people shouldn't use computers at all
Anonymous
Others should use computers only with a browser, email client, and word processor installed
I mean I think you'd say that everyone should use Python before you'd say that everyone should use JS
I think a lot of the complaints related to .NET (and all things Microsoft) is the environment more than the individual technologies
Anonymous
06:20
I would like to see Microsoft take the Python approach and decouple the languages from the implementations
The only Microsoft products I don't actively dislike are the Xbox and those I haven't used.
And the environment is not even that bad, but it seems once you sign on to a Microsoft tech, it's going to be uphill all the way unless your whole stack is Microsoft
Anonymous
For example, with Python, there's the Python Language, and then the implementations (CPython, Jython, IronPython, PyPy, etc.) are independent
Anonymous
It would be nice to have the C# language without needing .NET or Mono. C# targeting the JVM would be interesting.
It'd just be Java but marginally less trashy
06:22
@Mego Yeah, it would
Just seems that the Java complaints are largely about the language, and .NET complaints are largely about the environment, so it's really comparing apples to oranges
Apples are good and oranges are crap
(Okay, that's false--I do like oranges. But apples are better.)
Anonymous
I prefer oranges
Anonymous
Citrus <3
Anonymous
That makes me want orange juice, brb screwdriver
06:25
Let the flame war begin.
waffles
@AlexA. I think oranges would win because citrus in your eyes probably hurts more than apple juice in your eyes
We should test this.
More acid eh
@AlexA. You should write a thesis on this
06:27
Okay, I need five people with enough experience in closing flame wars. :P
XD
Or one moderator for a hammer close
I think apples are much more practical, but some varieties of apples don't taste good because they are too tart
And some are too mealy
That too
Oranges are a lot more work, but they almost always taste good
"apple" > "orange"
> false
"orange" > "apple"
> true
JavaScript knows all
06:29
JavaScript speaks in lies
@Quill That's normal string comparison
s/all/all about strings/
Erm, JS checks capitalisation.
@MarsUltor I didn't say it wasn't
Anonymous
>>> "apple" > "orange"
False
>>> "orange" > "apple"
True
06:30
@zyabin101 ASCII values for capitals are higher than lowercase IIRC
Anonymous
Yep
So, in any case, #DontDoHolyWars
Anonymous
That's technically Unicode, but w/e
06:34
Daaaaarn, ~("Apples" > "Oranges") but "Oranges" > "Apples".
@Quill Why did you onebox a spoiler-only answer D:
because the answer is weird
@Quill But why onebox it?
@Mego C# > Java because everything > Java
06:38
@MarsUltor I have a deeply rooted fear of non oneboxed links. After the Astley Incident of '89 it stopped me from sleeping
@Phrancis Daaaaarn, apples are first.
@Quill and the Friday links
I thought oranges are greater than apples...
And the rickrolls, and Gandalf epic sax
@zyabin101 Yeah, it's order by name ascending
@Quill '89?
06:40
\(o_O)/
@MarsUltor Quoting a pre 2000 year just seems to fit the mysterious theme of the comment
Oh, Rick Astley
Stop psychoanalysing my shitty jokes
Took a minute to tie the 2, but guess I'm old enough to have heard the rickroll song on the actual radio
@Quill You weren't alive in 1989...
06:42
1 min ago, by Quill
Stop psychoanalysing my shitty jokes
#can'tstopwon'tstop
I think I might actually have a Rick Astley record, somewhere
(from my dad)
I guess your dad didn't want to give you up or let you down
STAHP
brb listening to gandalf epic sax 10 hours
I love that when the Puzzling theme went live, the guy who made the meta post basically said, "Thanks for your feedback. We didn't use any of it."
(And they didn't, even the good feedback)
06:48
Wonder why they didn't use any of it... what a puzzle indeed
Anonymous
I just don't get the Puzzling site. It doesn't make sense to me on a very fundamental level. I've visited it several times, and I don't get why it exists, except apparently so users can rage at mods.
I guess it started as an actual Q&A site about making puzzles
And devolved into "here's a puzzle, spoiler tag all of the answers"
Anonymous
See, Q&A about puzzles would make sense, but it would never graduate
I think it's just one of those weird outliers
06:50
"btw mods you're <insert stuff that gets you banned for *an entire year*>"
Anonymous
I'd love to be able to set up filters within SE so that I can pretend an entire site doesn't exist
@Mego lel like board and card games se
users != site
@Mego Someone asked about that on Meta.SE because they wanted to do it for PPCG
Anonymous
@Phrancis True, but the community is as much a part of a site as its topic/focus is
06:51
@Mego absolutely
Anonymous
@AlexA. That almost makes me feel bad, but I can understand it. Puzzling, CR, and PPCG don't fit into the Q&A site framework that the rest of SE does.
@Mego You could just have a userscript to hide sites in the HNQ bar and the sites list dropdown
Anonymous
@Quill I'd rather it be done within SE. Though "there's a userscript for everything" is true, I'd much rather see stuff like that be core functionality.
@Mego CR more so than PPCG or Puzzling. Though I think Puzzling is even more of a black sheep than we are because at least we have objective criteria that determine which answer should be accepted.
@Mego Yeah you have to start redefining or changing what a question is for those, and well, some do it right and some don't
06:53
@Mego Perhaps you might enjoy coming along to the next town hall meeting? The last one went well and the CMs listened really nicely
Anonymous
Yeah honestly I'm not sure why Puzzling graduated. They still have a lot of issues that they never worked out, that I think needed to be worked out before graduation.
Because they didn't screw StackEgg, maybe
Anonymous
@Quill I wasn't available during the last town hall meeting, though I like the concept. My main question would be "Why isn't chat a first-class citizen in SE?", though.
Oh god, atomic chrome is amazing
Anonymous
Search for [bug] [chat] on Meta.SE, and you'll find a lot of
06:55
I'm surprised no one has done a SOUP for chat
Anonymous
SOAP?
What's a SOAP?
Do you mean SOUP?
Yeah, I forgot the third letter... close enough
"I'm the ramen king"
@Quill They're slightly different things ;)
06:57
The SOAP is obviously to clean chat up ;p
Anonymous
I only know that SOUP is a thing because I've used Python stuff that uses BeautifulSoup. I have no idea what it means.
Anonymous
@AlexA. You remind me of the babe
The what now
Anonymous
@AlexA. You disappoint me
06:58
@Mego Not that
SOUP = SO unofficial patch userscript
@Mego ? :(
In no way related to a Python DOM library
7 messages moved to Trash
It's a bunch of JS that fixes some things about JS on client side, AFAIK
I have it running but have no clue what it does
It was good a few years ago but the stuff it was supposed to fix have already been fixed
so now it's pretty irrelevant
@Phrancis And css
@Mego ??
Anonymous
Shh. Don't question it. Just watch the magnificence that was David Bowie.
@Quill Ah, I wonder if anyone has thought of updating the thing since
@Phrancis Yes, apparently
07:01
Like, deleting the obsolete code
@Phrancis I don't think it's really necessary now, or they probably would have
The last commit was a month ago
@Everyone use SOX instead
@Phrancis No, not that
Where baseball meets broken code
ALL YOUR STAR ARE BELONG TO ME
07:11
@Phrancis ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
EXACT ONE
WAIT ITS SIXTEEN
khe khm okay, enough shouting for today. @Everyone I'm sorry.
@Phrancis Looks like another word to me ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
07:55
@Downgoat when I run a chatbot using your framework, I get the console filled with periodical "ReferenceError: UID is undefined" errors.
What gives?
You should try this one: github.com/Zirak/SO-ChatBot
@Quill No, thanks.
Zirak's chatbot is limited, and I don't know how to implement new functions for it, but only for my instance.
Try doing it like this:
var MyChatbot = new Chatbot("<CHATBOT NAME>", {
     UID: <USERID OF THE CHATBOT>,
     Startup: "What to say on the chatbot's startup (formatted)"
}
@Quill Tried it.
Still "ReferenceError: UID is undefined" errors.
That code is weird... it doesn't look like it would work at all ;-;
08:05
Yup. That's why I'm asking @Downgoat.
I don't know what to write for zyabinVI :/
I have a chatbot style thing written in JS as well... it's a little harder to use than Downgoat's thing in fact I nearly didn't publish it
I like the idea of Downgoat's thing, but it feels unfinished
The SE-ChatBot in Python is pretty easy to use as well
08:25
Okai, I left four comments on the theory of the Screaming Question cipher.
Anonymous
08:42
SE-ChatBot is super powerful and easy to extend, but could use some performance improvements
You can use this program in Jelly to find up to an arbitrary range (just change the argument). — Kenny Lau 11 secs ago
@KennyLau Apparently, you're invading Mathematics with Programming Puzzles & Code Golf. Good job and good luck.
thanks
Bounty's up on my quipu challenge
@Sherlock9 The grace period ends in?
08:54
Two weeks
@Kenny :/ at trying to brute force a Diophantine
Some time after the end of my exams on Saturday the 21st
@Sp3000 Brute force (exploration) is often a useful step in diophantines
Anonymous
@Sherlock9 I love the challenge concept but I don't know if I'll give it a try. It's quite hard :P
Haha, hence the "has not received enough attention" tag :P

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