The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

22:01

And reversed isn't a common operation?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

not really

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ There's also len and sorted.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman those are common

Easterly Irk

^

quartata

Look bottom line: a function that doesn't modify an object directy shouldn't be an instance method. Python has no class methods. That leavs procedures.

That's an implementation thing you're not supposed to mess with

Easterly Irk

22:03

len calls __len__

I searched my .bash_history for the line with the highest ratio of special characters to regular alphanumeric characters, and the winner was: cat out.txt | grep -o "[[(].*[])][^)]]*$" ... I have no memory of this and no idea what I was trying to do, but I sure hope it worked.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Easterly Irk

Is Ba'al related to El'endia?

Ba' vs El'

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Use %

Easterly Irk

@QPaysTaxes maybe

random button is addicting

El'endia Starman

@EasterlyIrk I would hope not!

Doorknob

22:07

@quartata Except Python 3 encourages .format()

right?

quartata

No one actually uses .format that I know

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@EasterlyIrk Ba'al is an idol

Easterly Irk

@El'endiaStarman same.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ i know.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

o

feersum

Why use format when you can use '%' with the same formatting specification that you know from every other language?

El'endia Starman

22:08

I think .format is indeed the "proper" way to do it, and it's also a little more powerful/flexible/maintainable, but I usually use % anyway because it's quicker and easier. :P

Doorknob

I like the {} method; it's what Rust also uses

Easterly Irk

BAI to do work.

New Main Posts

0

Q: Write an interpreter for dc

Your task is to write an interpreter for the stack-based programming language/calculator dc. dc has a relatively small instruction set, and has a very terse syntax.However it must not be taken lightly, because it is an arbitrary-precision calculator. For those of you who do not know what dc is,...

code-golf

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@EasterlyIrk BAI to you

quartata

as soon as you just let go of all these Ruby OOP expectations you'd realize Python is beautiful place of gumdrops and unicorns

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:10

gumdrops taste bad after a while and unicorns don't exist

Easterly Irk

@feersum because format replaces all {0} with the same string, and "{0} test {0}".format('asd') is simpler than '%s test %s" % ("asd","asd")

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes You're not a pythonic unicorn, so you're fine

Easterly Irk

> gumdrops taste bad ~~after a while~~ and unicorns ~~don't~~ exist

ftfy

Gumdrops are awful.

dangit, trying to leave.

epicTCK

@EasterlyIrk where did you get the 3d avocad at the top?

Easterly Irk

BAI FOR REAL

@epicTCK google images

quartata

22:11

If you really want to do heavy OOP then use Java. Python isn't about that. Python is about clean pretty code that just works by any paradigm necessary

El'endia Starman

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I want functional. Which lang does that?

quartata

Racket

epicTCK

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Any languege with functions.... :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@epicTCK ...

quartata

22:13

@QPaysTaxes Already explained this. It's still good practice to have an explicit pass at any rate. People don't read comments often

flawr

@epicTCK Doesn't work that way.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Haskell.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

kk

epicTCK

@flawr ":P" I know

feersum

People who do read comments end up understanding the code wrongly because the code was edited 3 times since someone wrote the comment 5 years ago.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes A pass tells me right away this section is under construction

Doorknob

22:16

then why is it there?

quartata

Why woud you bother with an else clause then?

feersum

I believe you do need empty statements sometimse although I can't recall an example.

El'endia Starman

@feersum One might be overriding an inherited method to make it do nothing.

@QPaysTaxes Yeah, so you do pass #comment.

Ton Hospel

label at the end of a block might need an empty statement

quartata

I think at this point you're just looking for reasons nt to like Python. That's fine: you can just say I don't like Python. I don't really give a shit, just don't then try to force yourself to use Python and get mad about it

El'endia Starman

22:19

Though if you're in a hurry, you need not write the comment.

flawr

def you_shall_not():
    pass

Maltysen

@QPaysTaxes __len__ isn't an instance method. well it is, but not the one that len() calls

El'endia Starman

I often use pass in functions that I will define later, and want to be sure I have the layout already.

@QPaysTaxes Aren't comments completely ignored?

@QPaysTaxes I don't get what you're asking.

quartata

Then you are never going to find a language that won't bug you in some way.

LsoI already told you why it was written like that two days ago

El'endia Starman

If you have a piece of code like this, shouldn't the interpreter throw an error since you probably made a mistake?

def foo():

def bar():
    return 5

Comments are stripped out though.

feersum

22:22

Do you seriously think functional comments are a good idea?

quartata

Comments HAVE to be stripped out first due to how indentation works. It would be a massive pain in the ass for such a dumb feature

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes You mean, why it was decided that comments would be totally ignored?

feersum

Comments that alter the program semantics.

Maltysen

@QPaysTaxes comments that actually have an effect on the code

Doorknob

I've always found it amusing that you can comment out newlines in LaTeX

quartata

22:24

Here lemme dig up this exact same conversation where I explained this

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes What if you comment out lines at the first character (like IDLE)? If we're following Python's rules of indentation, then this will cause all kinds of problems.

feersum

I think we should all recognize that we're getting trolled now.

I mean come on, comments that affect the program...

I agree.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes That's not what I said at all.

Chat search on mobile is a pain in the ass. Look it up yourself if you really care.

Basically you would have to make comments respect indentation which is highly problematic

Downgoat

what operators should strings have behavior for besides + and *?

Doorknob

... what would * do on strings?

Downgoat

22:29

@Doorknob repetition

El'endia Starman

def foo():
    def bar():
##      return 5

Downgoat

e.g. "foo" * 2 = "foofoo"

Doorknob

Oh, I was thinking called with two strings

quartata

@QPaysAxes that would mean else with an empty body is allowed which isn't good

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Can you divide one string by another string?

Rainbolt

22:30

@Doorknob I was thinking the same thing till I Googled it and was like "Oh, I already knew how to do that."

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ no, unless a good reason can be provided for the behavior

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat I honestly like the idea of char removal, e.g. "Hello, World!" - "l" = "Heo, Word!"

El'endia Starman

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ If you can multiply a string by another string, maybe you can come up with the inverse.

Maltysen

@QPaysTaxes which block does that comment belong to?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes bai

Downgoat

22:30

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ bai

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

not leaving >_>

Maltysen

@El'endiaStarman like finding the longest repeated string? :P

FryAmTheEggman

@Doorknob With two strings some esolangs (like Pyth) have cartesian product defined for that, idk how common that is outside of that though :P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@El'endiaStarman Lol, I've actually thought about that as a challenge, but I can't come up with anything that makes sense.

Rainbolt

Division: "Hello world" / 2 = {"Hello","world"}

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:31

^^

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

62

Q: Why is the minus sign, '-', generally not overloaded in the same way as the plus sign?

The plus sign + is used for addition and for string concatenation, but its companion: the minus sign, -, is generally not seen for trimming of strings or some other case other than subtraction. What could be the reason or limitations for that? Consider the following example in JavaScript: var...

coding-standards history operators overload

@Rainbolt 0_o Woah...

Rainbolt

So it behaves like split?

I could get on board with that

FryAmTheEggman

But then * should be join... :o

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Then does "HelloWorld" * " " == "H e l l o W o r l d"?

El'endia Starman

@FryAmTheEggman ....HMMM....that might be useful...

Rainbolt

22:33

No because "HelloWorld" isn't a list

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

bai

But a string is practically a list of chars.

Doorknob

In Ruby, ['a','b','c'] * ' ' -> 'a b c'

Rainbolt

If division splits a string into a list, then multiplication joins a list into a string

FryAmTheEggman

That would be kind of neat that they would be inverses but yeah it's probably a terrible idea :P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Especially it you're from a python background

"Foo" / "" == UniverseError

Rainbolt

22:34

DivideByEmptyStringException

Agawa001

@Sp3000 lol u rowdy boy i v just saw u second ranked on project-euler scoeboard

FryAmTheEggman

Uh wouldn't that just be ["", "F", "o", "o", ""]? :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

wait if / is split then wouldn't "foo" / "" => "Foo"?

Rainbolt

@FryAmTheEggman How many empty strings are in between each of those letters?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

No, because you can't divide by 0. :P

Rainbolt

22:35

Answer: Infinitely many

FryAmTheEggman

Exactly one according my supreme authority: whoever designed regex :P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Regex was designed by so many different people.

Since there are so many different standards.

Rainbolt

We either need to fix regex or fix mathematics

Agawa001

oh look who is the first, that is martin with twisted family name

FryAmTheEggman

(I know my previous statement is full of wrong things just in case it seemed serious :P )

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

22:42

sigh Allergies are the worst.

Even worse than Javascript.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ಠ_ಠ

Downgoat

ಠ_ಠ

2

JavaScript is best script

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Lol, sorry.

But seriously, allergies really suck.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Ik

Even worse than Python

:P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

ಠ_ಠ

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:44

Lol, sorry.

But actually, allergies really do suck

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Copycat.

Easterly Irk

Can a PPCG mod clear the comments here?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

It's fun to take random potshots at languages that I don't actually harbor any negative feelings towards.

trichoplax

@EasterlyIrk Not just any mod. You need a PPCG mod for that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Try PHP, there's always fuel there

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

22:46

Except for PHP and VB. I really do actually hate those.

Ninja'd

Easterly Irk

@trichoplax hmph

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ why hate on VB?

disclaimer: never used it

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ D:

trichoplax

@EasterlyIrk You can flag one of the comments for mod attention and request they be moved in the text box that comes up

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

2 mins ago, by Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@EasterlyIrk At work, I was tasked with rewriting some old VB that a bunch of professors wrote. It was the most poorly written code I have seen in my entire life.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

The real star wars has begun

orlp

22:47

run away

►

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

TBF, that's not the fault of VB, but now I have flashbacks everytime I think about VB.

Easterly Irk

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ my ammo was fired on the ಠ_ಠs

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ rofl

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@EasterlyIrk I still have mine >:D

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Plus, there some things that are just obnoxious, like 1 to n loops, If Then Endif, etc. Strict Off

Easterly Irk

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ D:

reclaimed 2 of mine

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:49

:(

:D

Easterly Irk

really?

trichoplax

While it's still on the starboard, does anyone else have any feedback on the line widths in my Sierpinski Knot image?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:|

Easterly Irk

who starred my "my ammo" message.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@trichoplax I saw it earlier, it's perfect

Easterly Irk

22:50

@trichoplax not on the starboard anymore.

and ^^

trichoplax

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Wow. Thank you.

@EasterlyIrk It dropped off as I posted lol

Easterly Irk

rofl

RESTAR IT:

Ton Hospel

@EasterlyIrk: Perl takes too much time to properly explode your memory :-)

Easterly Irk

2

@TonHospel rofl

Downgoat

\o/ language learning is in public beta

Easterly Irk

22:51

:D

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@Downgoat That's cool. I commited, then did absolutely nothing.

Easterly Irk

^ but without the commit. I partipated a bit though.

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ ಠ_ಠ

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I commited cause I like ELL.

Easterly Irk

For smaller numbers he has to SAVE lives. The birthrate channel is even more of a mixed bag.

4

trichoplax

22:53

@EasterlyIrk Ha ha now that someone has starred your post you'll get the questions on what it is :)

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

o_0

Easterly Irk

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ cergos hasn't updated in a while........... D:

@trichoplax hmph

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Sorry, it's almost the end of the school year

2

Easterly Irk

hmph

moar hmph

if you don't make more comix i will become himarm jr again

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh no

quartata

22:55

Awh I can log in to chat from elinks but can't send messages. :(

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ About four more weeks or so?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman For my school, about three. We let out earlier

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Cool.

quartata

@EasterlyIrk I have a file of a lot of comic ideas, but I can't draw.

Maltysen

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ :/ we have a month and a half

El'endia Starman

22:56

@quartata Ever seen/considered sprite comics?

Ton Hospel

quartata: That why stick figures were invented

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Maltysen kehehe

quartata

Most of them are math/CS puns so maybe that's a good thing

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I can help with that :3

Easterly Irk

@quartata ^

trichoplax

22:57

@quartata Sounds like an ideal opportunity for collaboration

quartata

@TonHospel Yeh but xkcd already does that. I don't want to rip off both content AND art style

Ton Hospel

@quartata: Or lego pictures (my absolute favorite is irregularwebcomic.net/2339.html)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I do, and have no qualms

quartata

heh

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Though I draw mine digitally, and it yields different style

himarm jr

22:59

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ while I eat dinner.... :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

bai

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