The Nineteenth Byte

cat

23:00

@AlexA. :P

quartata

See, I'm beginning to suspect you aren't a human being but rather are a robot written in CJam that roams around looking for new challenges, writes the CJam code to solve them, and then waits a random amount of time and then posts it in order to look human

3

This isn't the first time Dennis has been investigated for robottery

Dennis

@HelkaHomba That's what I was going for. (Nice try, robot.)

quartata

Sep 24 '15 at 2:36, by Dennis

I have to wait a random amount of time before answering... er, I mean your theories are wrong.

very suspicious

Alex A.

@QPaysTaxes /Errors/Errors/.../Errors/Http404

cat

@AlexA. Source: Weirdest way to produce a stack overflow

Helka Homba

23:03

@quartata So a CJam program created Jelly? What will Jelly create?

quartata

@HelkaHomba Another CJam program

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba A mess on the counter

Helka Homba

Not something even golfier?

quartata

$ perl homonym.pl <<< "ball"
Baal
baal
Bael
bael
Baha'ullah
Bahaullah
Baiel
Bail
bail
baile
bailee
Bailey
bailey
Bailie
bailie
bailli
Baillie
baillie
Baillieu
Bailly
bailo
Baily
BAL
Bal
bal
bal.
Bala
balai
Balao
balao
balau
Balawa
Balawu
Bale
bale
balei
Balewa
Bali
bali
Ball
ball
Balla
ballahoo
ballahou
balli
ballo
Ballou
ballow
Bally
bally
ballyhoo
baloo
balow
balu
Baul
baul
baulea
bauleah
bawl
bawley
bawly
bayal
Bayle
Bayley
Bayly
BBL
bbl
bbl.
Beal
beal
beala
Beale
Beall
be-all
Bealle
Beaulieu

Looks like this works a little too well...

Helka Homba

Like the ai that designs a better ai...

quartata

23:04

I'm not sure why it thinks "Bailey" sounds like "ball"

trichoplax

Your program has a really strange accent

quartata

Hm, maybe.

Alex A.

@trichoplax Pærl

quartata

But "bbl"?

trichoplax

@quartata really strange lol

Helka Homba

23:06

@quartata It has Baha'ullah but not Balzac?

quartata

It just compares soundex codes. I didn't expect it to be exact, but this is a little too much...

I'm trying to develop some bird pun generating technology

4

Helka Homba

That's just a flight of fancy

quartata

@QPaysTaxes ohhhh yesssss

I still need a list of birds...

trichoplax

@HelkaHomba You're avian a laugh

No need to go robin all the best ones

Helka Homba

So you terned to chemistry?

quartata

23:09

no no what did I start

stop

Rainbolt

Stop what?

quartata

At least wait until I get the pun generator working

@Rainbolt The train of bird puns. Last time it went on for 2 hours

trichoplax

We'll all be redundant then

Rainbolt

@quartata I haven't noticed any bird puns. They must have flown right over my head

2

El'endia Starman

@Rainbolt Owl bet he's talking about the bird puns. :P

Alex A.

23:10

@quartata I was going to say I was amused because it seemed the bird pun phase had come and gone, but that appears not to be the case. :|

quartata

@Rainbolt I walked right into that one

Rainbolt

Yes. Yes you did

Maltysen

@quartata no you flew into it

trichoplax

Whatever nest?

quartata

@Maltysen that one too

cat

23:11

@QPaysTaxes I was called? :P

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. Aww. You're not raven to get involved...

cat

I quite like birds :c

Alex A.

@cat ( ͡♥ ͜ʖ ͡♥)

9

quartata

Cats eat bad puns though I thought

cat

@quartata not this one, I tend to make them (sometimes)

@AlexA. Is that Lenny-In-Love?

Alex A.

23:13

@cat U never no...

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Careful there alex, he might eat you.

Cat's have been known to do that.

Alex A.

^^

cat

@QPaysTaxes You may notice my profile picture, which clearly shows a mouse

@QPaysTaxes she*, but it's okay ^~^

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@cat Haha, my bad.

cat

No worries c:

quartata

23:14

@cat I thought you liked mice

In fact you liked them so much you made a language named after them

Alex A.

Yeah, eating them

Rainbolt

I assume all cats are shes until told otherwise

cat

@quartata I like Mouse, indeed

El'endia Starman

^^^

I mean, we do have languages like Cheddar, Jelly, CJam...

Oh, and AvacadOS.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Mmm, yummy.

cat

23:16

There is a Cat language, but it's kinda useless and ded

Alex A.

@cat You're the only other person on the site I've seen who shares my interest in Mouse. :)

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Actually cheese overheats their blood

cat

@AlexA. :)

Alex A.

I like Mouse-83 for its simplicity

It's really hard to do anything at all

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

"Mouse is a small computer programming language developed by Dr. Peter Grogono in the late 1970s and early 1980s."

cat

23:16

That's why I prefer Mouse-2002, but it's still pretty hard to use for much :c

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

I doubt that's cat.

Alex A.

I'm really bad at thinking with stacks, so it's hard for me regardless of the built-ins or anything like that.

quartata

@AlexA. now you're thinking with stacks

cat

Oooh, you should learn to think of the stack in terms of rewriting, that's what's helped me learning Factor

quartata

I do think you might like Pyth though. Nice and procedural.

cat

23:19

Now that I've spent a lot of time with primarily functional languages, I want everything to be functional-style and I probably sound really elitist

quartata

No

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

What's the most pythonic way to find which item in a list that starts with "foo"?

quartata

I love functional programming

cat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ filter(lambda x:x.startswith("foo"), L)

quartata

^

cat

23:20

for a list L

quartata

Was just about to post that

Maltysen

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ [i for i in x if i.startswith("foo")]

cat

^ that too

trichoplax

@cat I heard that's what happens to everyone who learns a functional language. I'm thinking of learning one to see if I then abandon all other languages

cat

I always go-to higher order functions @Maltysen :P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

23:20

Thanks

Maltysen

@cat I try not to use lambdas as a general rule

Helka Homba

I haven't said anything in a while.

cat

@Maltysen :o

Maltysen

but each to their own

El'endia Starman

@cat I actually think Maltysen's way is easier to understand.

trichoplax

23:21

@HelkaHomba Technically not lurking

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba -1 not a bird pun.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Ooh, Pytek doesn't actually have list comprehensions in the draft yet.

The closest we have are set builders

cat

@El'endiaStarman I've spent way too much time in the past weeks using functional langs like Factor and Racket, and then come back to Python and people who like things the imperitave way look at me funny :c

quartata

@cat I love Racket

Alex A.

@quartata \\\\[\[[\\i \\\\for \i \\in \\\\\\\\set ]

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

23:22

Also, what's the best way to do command line arguments in my golfing language? Is it better to do -f file or -f=file?

quartata

@AlexA. ...

Alex A.

haha sorry @El'endiaStarman :P

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Either one works, but which makes more sense?

quartata

[i \for(i, array)]

If we even do it like that.

Probably not.

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. Lolz. That would error immediately.

cat

23:23

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ (Usually) Always follow POSIX. See docopt for a nicer argument parser

Alex A.

@quartata -1 not enough backslashes

quartata

Why do I get the feeling this backslash thing will become a meme like LISP's parentheses

trichoplax

@cat Will the filter approach still work for an infinite list? I mean like the output of a generator that doesn't terminate?

El'endia Starman

@quartata Maybe their syntax could be much the same as the set builders? [x**2 | [1..5]] => [1, 4, 9, 16, 25]

cat

@quartata (talking-about (you (what?)))

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

23:24

@cat That's pretty cool.

I might go with that.

cat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I love it a lot.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Function calls in Pytek start with a backslash

@El'endiaStarman yeah, seems dece

El'endia Starman

@quartata >_> ...yeah, that'll probably happen.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Because

style

Alex A.

@QPaysTaxes I think because it makes it easier to parse?

El'endia Starman

23:25

@QPaysTaxes I liked how LaTeX did it, and it helps with spotting the functions immediately.

cat

@trichoplax Yes, filter is intended for exactly that sort of thing. In fact, filter doesn't return a list, it returns a generator, a filter object: stackoverflow.com/q/12319025, docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#filter

quartata

@AlexA. Actually it doesn't really

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes I just explained why.

quartata

What about a function call with only options? foo[encoding='UTF-8']

That could be an array if you were just spot-reading

\foo[encoding='UTF-8']()

Alex A.

@quartata orlp? Seems like you could just tokenize based on \ to word boundary and you immediately know that the token is a function

quartata

23:27

@AlexA. We could do it without \ with a little extra effort

trichoplax

@cat I'm now one step closer to being hooked...

quartata

@QPaysTaxes eh

Alex A.

@quartata "with a little extra effort" is my point ;)

quartata

@AlexA. It's not the reason we did it

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes You can do stuff like [1..5] ~> \square -> \reverse that's the equivalent of \reverse(\square([1..5])). I'm not sure that would actually be possible as I've written it, but I just came up with this example off the top of my head.

Alex A.

23:27

@quartata ¯\_(ok)_/¯

cat

@trichoplax you will be after you get used to it :D

quartata

@El'endiaStarman that's correct

Are we rolling with ~> for executing chains?

El'endia Starman

@quartata Yeah, I think so. I like it.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Have you actually seen a code sample? It's beautiful

pytek best language in the cosmos

Alex A.

@mınxomaτ So QPaysTaxes mentioned that if, for example, I were to write something in Python based on—but not a port of—some GPL C++, it wouldn't be a derived work so my Python code wouldn't need to be GPL. Can you confirm? Does that still count as a derived work? (also lol @ an entire sentence of links)

El'endia Starman

23:30

@QPaysTaxes I think Pytek does a lot of things more intuitively than most languages.

quartata

in Pytek, Apr 4 at 19:46, by quartata

type:board() {
  grid = \list(" " * 80) * 24;
}

func:generate() {
  board = board:board();

  side1 = {n | \and(n,2) == 0, 0 <= n < 16, n in \N};
  side2 = {n | \and(n,2) == 2, 0 <= n < 16, n in \N};

  side1 ~= \order -> \list -> \shuffle;
  side2 ~= \order -> \list -> \shuffle;

  \for(room, [6,11] ~ \random -> \range) {
    chunkNum = (room % 2 == 0 ? \pop(side1) : \pop(side2));
    chunkPoint = 20 * (chunkNum % 4) + 5 * (chunkNum / 4)i;
    randomPoint = \random(20) + \re(chunkPoint) + (\random(5) + \im(chunkPoint))i;

@QPaysTaxes .. ok true

cat

@AlexA. No, not if it's not the same code!

that's not how licensing works

Alex A.

@cat I can never be sure with GPL because it's super restrictive and it's way too long for me to actually read it...

Helka Homba

@El'endiaStarman On the contrary it's an anagram of "I indignantly wish thee, avian, ha!"

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes Yeah, and I'm designing a language that I want to use, and where I get "Oh, that makes sense." reactions. I'd actually like to drop \for and \while in favor of \repeat and \loop because those words embody their purpose better.

Alex A.

23:32

For all I know, every time I license something under GPL, I could be agreeing to sacrifice my first born child to an iguana.

2

quartata

@QPaysTaxes func1 -> func2 is a tacit chain.

cat

@AlexA. If you translate a book directly to a different language , that is derived, but reading someone else's program in a different language and writing your own is not. You can always ask on opensource.stackexchange.com

@AlexA. o.0 GPL3 is love, GPL3 is life

Is that really an unpopular opinion? :(

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes I think you have a different idea of "intuitive" than I do.

Alex A.

@cat Shhhhh don't let @mınxomaτ hear you say that >_>

cat

@QPaysTaxes No D:

quartata

23:33

@cat I like GPL

cat

GPL2 !==== GPL3; Linux kernel is GPL2, but not GPL3

El'endia Starman

That's totally not what "intuitive" means to me.

Alex A.

> board = board:board();

cat

@El'endiaStarman I agree: google.com/search?q=define:intuitive

El'endia Starman

Intuitive is more along the lines of if you made a guess as to how to do something or how something works, you'd be more likely than not to get it right.

Alex A.

23:35

lel

El'endia Starman

Python is quite intuitive in this regard.

Helka Homba

No one was impressed by my anagram :(

quartata

@cat I don't particularly give a shit about licenses so I just use GPL because that's what I was taught to do

El'endia Starman

Readability != intuitive. Emphatically. You can have something that's totally readable and yet does something that was totally not what you expected.

Alex A.

@cat I think my question is more about at what point is something considered derived? That is, how much would have to change between the original implementation and my modified port for it to not be considered derived and thus be free from GPL? (cc @mınxomaτ -- sorry for all the pings)

quartata

23:37

@El'endiaStarman By the way, I'm still confused about how constructors work

Alex A.

@QPaysTaxes Arabic writing is nuts

quartata

If I wanted to create a new instance of foo named bar what would the syntax be

@QPaysTaxes No, actually the mechanics are straightforward. It's the syntax I'm confused about

@QPaysTaxes I thought it was bar = foo:bar()

Hence why I'm asking

Alex A.

I've tried to learn the iske imlâ alphabet for Tatar which is based on the Arabic/Persian alphabet and it's like whaaaat.

El'endia Starman

@quartata I had been thinking that it would be <type>:<name>[](), much like how functions are defined.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman So bar = foo:bar()?

That's what I thought.

cat

23:39

Why a colon, out of curiosity? Do you want people to think this is C++? :P

El'endia Starman

@quartata No, just foo:bar().

quartata

Ohhhh right right right

El'endia Starman

@cat I've cribbed stuff from like 10 languages. :P

quartata

@cat : is type cast

@QPaysTaxes It's not really an object. It's actually a type.

Alex A.

@cat Then you'd need two colons. The second makes all the difference. :P

quartata

23:40

You're coercing bar to a foo

@QPaysTaxes There's no such thing as a class variable because there are no classes

(currently)

These are types.

Think of it as typedefing a struct in C

El'endia Starman

Precise details on how exactly types will work are still to be fully determined.

Alex A.

I've often wondered what the world of programming would look like if no one had come up with "foo" and "bar."

El'endia Starman

I haven't even gotten user-defined functions to work yet.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes No.

El'endia Starman

Err, I was still planning to make it possible to do OOP...

quartata

23:41

It's functional, imperative, procedural, concurrent, acorns? I think?

Yeah.

Like you have a set of objects called acorns

And you make new acorns by planting them in the ground

Alex A.

not sure if trolling

El'endia Starman

Especially, if I want to make games, OOP will make them easier to make.

quartata

So you have \plant(acorn1) and then acorn1.children gets you new acorns

Wow, I think no one realized that was a joke. That's how crazy you think we are ;_;

Alex A.

The Internet is a strange place full of jokes that go unnoticed due to the context lost in text.

2

quartata

I was browsing through the transcript and I had a sudden temptation to reply to a message from a year ago

Alex A.

23:46

I have many sudden temptations. If I gave in to all of them, my life would be very different.

For example, people would probably think I'm crazy because I'd shout random shit in public.

*crazier

quartata

Also everyone here would be permanently suspended

Alex A.

^ This is actually accurate. Oh man, the site would be in shambles if I gave in to my mod abuse temptations.

Downgoat

should Cheddar have a range syntax or just a range function?

quartata

@Downgoat That's actually a good question.

trichoplax

@HelkaHomba I was a little bit impressed, but not enough to comment or star

quartata

23:50

I think a range syntax would be better.

Downgoat

@quartata do I not usually ask good questoions?

quartata

Then you don't have to have things like exclusiveRange( and inclusiveRange(

Alex A.

@quartata ^ a better glider avatar

quartata

@Downgoat Did I imply that? Sorry

I kinda meant more "there's no easy answer"

Downgoat

@quartata but then there won't be a way to choose between exclusive and inclusive ranges?

quartata

23:51

@AlexA. I've actually been thinking of changing my avatar

Alex A.

To what?

quartata

@Downgoat No. You'd have something like ... or ..

trichoplax

@El'endiaStarman Readable: It's obvious what it does. Intuitive: The thing that you think it obviously does is correct.

quartata

My point is is that having those verbose function names is a little annoying

And if you just have range that's not flexible enough

Downgoat

okay

quartata

23:52

@AlexA. Not sure. Maybe a picture of a dog

Alex A.

@quartata oooooooooodamson

quartata

@AlexA. yes I know you like dogs

Downgoat

@quartata as long as it's not a creepy dog that's fine with me

quartata

@Downgoat oh it's absolutely going to be gabe

The question is from which video do I select it...

Alex A.

I think it should be Gabe hang gliding

trichoplax

23:53

@AlexA. GPL is super restrictive. If you read some code that is GPL, anything you subsequently write (songs, literature, political manifestos) is subtly influenced by what you read, and must also be GPL.

3

Downgoat

who is Gabe?

gaben?

quartata

@Downgoat The "creepy dog" you were alluding to

i.e the dog that people remix into dumb seizure inducing songs like Snow Dog

Alex A.

@trichoplax This is both hilarious and convincing :P

Downgoat

@quartata why can't it be a cute dog D:

quartata

@Downgoat but Gabe is adorable

Downgoat

23:55

Alex A.

Gabe is cute

All dogs are beautiful and wonderful and perfect

Downgoat

@AlexA. I agree 100% but there was one picture posted here that was not as pleasant as most dog pictures are...

quartata

gabe is half Pomeranian half Miniature American Eskimo all adorable

trichoplax

@AlexA. It's funny because it's true

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