The Nineteenth Byte

9:23 AM

@AlexA. OMG

(I never ordered anything from japan up to now, but I can highly recommend this shop! Very good packaging, and quite quick shipping.)

orlp

@flawr how can you possibly ever associate yourself with a company that uses Comic Sans in rainbow colors as a logo?

flawr

Consider they are japanese, they probably do not know what emotions Comic Sans produces in the western world. And I do not think they have Comic Sans for Kanji.

Lembik

9:41 AM

@orlp cool :)

flawr

@orlp What do you need that for?

orlp

@flawr lembik

Doorknob

10:57 AM

Well hey, at least school's cancelled :P

zyabin101

@Doorknob You live in Houston? :O

Doorknob

Yes

Sp3000

And if you try hard enough you can find out when he moved there :P

orlp

@Doorknob I was born there

zyabin101

11:16 AM

We should reload Helkish.

To reiterate, Helkish is a language with only two words, Helka Homba, to create even more words.

Conor created an encoding using these words.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Decimal to Troll code-golf Discworld Trolls have a unique number system. From Wikipedia: Trolls have a numeral system of their own, based on powers of 4. The base numerals are one (1), two (2), three (3), many (4) and lots (16), which can be combined to form higher numbers. When...

zyabin101

Encoding program in Jolf, 46 bytes:

RΜGiEd+RΜGpq~Y~@H8'0Ed.["Helka","Homba"]H' '!S

Decoding program in Jolf, 41 byte:

RΜZhG~pAi["Helka","Homba"]"01' "E'!dpAΙHE

zyabin101

11:30 AM

@MarsUltor Can you come to the UGL room? We should try making a prime checker with the new registers.

mınxomaτ

11:41 AM

@AlexA. That's derivative work. The port must be licensed GPL; furthermore the original copyright notice has to be retained.

In a larger FOSS project, any part that has a sane (i.e. non-reciprocal) license will be restricted by the GPL parts, no matter how small their share is. One reason why GPL is misused by 99% of devs (it takes the "F" out of FOSS).

If you go open-source, use a permissive license.

zyabin101

Too many links ahh!

orlp

12:05 PM

@mınxomaτ I don't necessarily agree

IMO a library should be permissive

but an application should be GPL

orlp

12:20 PM

@QPaysTaxes so corporate doesn't get to modify the application and not share

and there is very often very little argument for it hampering code reuse

@QPaysTaxes no, it was already in the premise that you want to write a free application

the question is, how do you release your free application

permissive, or gpl

@QPaysTaxes for applications LGPL = GPL

@QPaysTaxes LGPL allows linking

you can't link to an application

only to a library

New Meta Posts

0

Q: What do Standard Loopholes mean?

There is still no definition of Standard Loopholes I could find, so any answer would be highly appreciated.

support

orlp

@Lembik gist.githubusercontent.com/orlp/…

@Lembik slow, but if you replace prf_under_n and prf_coinflip with something decent it should be reasonably fast

TimmyD

12:44 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Oh dear.

orlp

@Lembik I was missing a factor, use this: gist.github.com/orlp/7655b6656715906a622d0f4acf219b77

zyabin101

@VTCAKAVSMoACE vintagetrenchcoat.tumblr.com/archive

Well, that's a... lot.

Nathan Merrill

survey: which language has the best parallelism constructs?

TimmyD

1:02 PM

PowerShell is great and does all things.

(but it really sucks for parallelism ... it's not really structured well for that)

quartata

1:23 PM

Rust and Java.

zyabin101

in Unipants' Golfing Language, 7 mins ago, by Kenny Lau

n^2:    1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100
n(n+1): 2 6 12 20 30 42 56 72 90
n(n+2): 3 8 15 24 35 48 63 80 99
n(n+3): 4 10 18 28 40 54 70 88

quartata

Although neither really have unique constructs per se, just really good implementations of the classic ones (mutexs, monitors, etc.)

zyabin101

Challenge idea: n(n+x) function or sequence.

orlp

@zyabin101 too simple

Sp3000

Chat mini-challenge would be fine, not much of a main site challenge

orlp

1:27 PM

lambda n,x:n*(n+x)

ever wondered what pure cringe looks like?

Eye Of The Spider (Eye Of The Tiger Minecraft Parody)

►

Lembik

@orlp thanks! I will look at it as soon as possible

Kenny Lau

@zyabin101 Pyth: m*d+dQUT

Sp3000

I don't Pyth but that looks long o_O

Kenny Lau

print on newlines: VUT*N+N

start from zero: VT*N+N

zyabin101

@zyabin101 Python:

def q(x,l):
 r=[0]*l
 for n in range(l):
  r[n]=n*(n+x)
 return r

Makes a sequence.

orlp

1:32 PM

Jelly: ×+

Kenny Lau

where's the input

and where's the ten

zyabin101

@KennyLau Implicit.

orlp

@KennyLau ten?

Kenny Lau

well, range

not just n(n+x)

but n(n+x) for n from 1 to 10

Sp3000

Er.. so what's the input/output exactly? I think what orlp and I thought and what you two are doing are different

orlp

1:34 PM

@KennyLau that wasn't the challenge?

I thought it was just a function returning n(n+x)

Kenny Lau

def q(x,l):return[x*(x+n)for n in range(l)]

@orlp Alright

orlp

given two parameters n, x

Kenny Lau

@zyabin101

lambda x,l:[x*(x+n)for n in range(l)]

zyabin101

\(o_O)/

Sp3000

@KennyLau That doesn't match zya's original outputs...

Kenny Lau

1:38 PM

lambda x,l:[n*(n+x)for n in range(l)]

Sp3000

That still doesn't match

Kenny Lau

could you provide the difference?

Sp3000

range(l) starts from 0

New Main Posts

-1

Q: How to write a program in turbo c++ to solve equation of motion

I want to know how to write a program to solve atleast 3 eq of motion

code-golf code-challenge ascii-art c c++

Kenny Lau

zyabin also used range

Sp3000

1:43 PM

VTC unclear what OP's asking :P

orlp

lambda x:[n*(n+x)for n in range(1,11)]

FryAmTheEggman

Just getting one value in Pyth is pretty short: *+E

Bas

2:39 PM

@Sp3000 Can't wait for you to update ><> hint

Nathan Merrill

just watch a talk on Go, they have a fantastic model for concurrency

instead of mutexes, semaphores, and other various things, they use channels

bascially, instead of communicating over variables (which you have to lock and so forth), you can simply pass in values into a channel, where the other threads wait

epicTCK

@Downgoat block to initialize yoour variables- typo in cheddar readme

Downgoat

@epicTCK whoops, fixed, thanks\

Rainbolt

2:56 PM

I want sushi

zyabin101

orlp

The acoustic of PVC pipes - Nicolas Bras

►

Geobits

@orlp I've made several penny whistles from pvc. It works really well, and isn't hard to do at all.

TimmyD

Blue Man Group has made a business from PVC pipes.

orlp

3:11 PM

@TimmyD not as flutes though

True.

11

^ a couple of mine

so, I had a really clever idea: Two lists get zipped together when using the and operator

so you can simply say for x, y in list1 and list2

FryAmTheEggman

I'd say that would be very surprising behaviour... and rarely means the English and when used in code, it almost always means logical / bitwise and.

Why is that any better than for x, y in zip(list1, list2)?

Nathan Merrill

3:20 PM

its easier to read

I'm not a fan of using lists as a boolean

but in other cases, and could be a boolean operator

FryAmTheEggman

Like I said, I disagree. I would find that very surprising that and was actually zipping things.

Nathan Merrill

well, if you were reading the above code, it makes intuitive sense

I mean, I could see people trying to do if list1 and list2:

FryAmTheEggman

Python's and on lists is logical: if either list is empty you get the empty list, otherwise you get the second list. While not often useful, it is much less surprising IMO.

Nathan Merrill

I've never used that before

or heard of it

let me look into it

Optimizer

creepy as hell:

Sp3000

3:26 PM

@Bas At this point, I dunno what I'd add tbh... I feel like I've already showcased most of ><>'s basics

Nathan Merrill

@FryAmTheEggman you know what's funny? zipping the list has pretty much the same effect

if either list was empty, you'd still get an empty list

but if neither of them are, you'd get a list of both of them

@FryAmTheEggman I'm pretty sure you can't and two lists.

[].__and__([])
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute '__and__'

FryAmTheEggman

Uh, try [] and [1,2,3], works fine for me.

Nathan Merrill

there's some magic happening here

I think what is happening is it does something like:

def __and__(a,b):
    if not bool(a):
        return a
   if not bool(b):
        return b
  return b

FryAmTheEggman

__and__ is for & I'm pretty sure.

Nathan Merrill

because list definitely doesn't implement __and__

oh, you're right

what's the magic method for and?

PhiNotPi

3:39 PM

Question for math people: is there a generalization of integration/differentiation that applies to arbitrary rings/fields?

Nathan Merrill

yeah, with integers, it has the exact same behavior

aka, print 4 and 5 prints 5

FryAmTheEggman

I'm pretty sure you can't overload and directly, it's basically just x if not x else y.

Nathan Merrill

hmmm. well that's lame

poi830

@NathanMerrill why even add the second if statement there, it does the same thing without it

Nathan Merrill

yeah, I realized that, but after the grace period :)

FryAmTheEggman

3:41 PM

You can overload __bool__ (I think that's what it's called) which is what determines whether it's truthy or falsy.

Nathan Merrill

but its silly that you can't overload and

I mean, its an operator, just like any other

FryAmTheEggman

I don't think so, it doesn't really make sense to do anything other than what it does. Since you can define truthiness you can always make it behave the way it should.

Nathan Merrill

you know, except zipping of lists

which is basically identical for all truthyness testing

FryAmTheEggman

I still don't think that would make any sense :P

Nathan Merrill

and the bonus, is that the or counterpart would work

you would simply have a tuple of optionals

it reads nice, it works with booleans, its just something you've never seen before

FryAmTheEggman

3:45 PM

There should be only one way to do something. If to do or look up something I have to go through a huge list of "in this case foo does blah but in this other case foo does asdf" then I'm going to be unhappy :P

Nathan Merrill

but it does only do one thing

it zips the list

FryAmTheEggman

But then why does zip exist? The point isn't that and does more than one thing, it's that there are two ways to do something that have no meaningful difference.

Nathan Merrill

oh right

I'd remove zip

:)

or maybe keep it to allow for zipping more than 2 lists

FryAmTheEggman

Well I think that's wrong :P

Nathan Merrill

but that's a rare case

why?

I mean, I can't think of a case when that would cause a bug

FryAmTheEggman

3:48 PM

Your version is very surprising to me. zip does exactly what it says it does, but and doesn't.

Nathan Merrill

turn that surprise into a bug

Rainbolt

You guys are just talking past one another at this point

Nathan Merrill

say you're a beginner programmer that doesn't know it zips

FryAmTheEggman

@Rainbolt Probably :P

PhiNotPi

The AI contest I went to was pretty okay.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3:54 PM

?

FryAmTheEggman

@PhiNotPi I don't know much about this but Wikipedia seems to think so: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

zyabin101

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Helkish is that language that uses two words, Helka Homba, to create words.

We talked in it a few days ago.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Yeah?

I didn't see the ping

zyabin101

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ We should reload Helkish.

So, helka homba would mean hello.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Hm! Sounds interesting

I'm @ school rn tho

zyabin101

3:56 PM

oops hides in barrel

Martin Büttner

This is pretty much ready for posting I think. Only question is whether to put a loose time limit on answers (e.g. a minute for any of the test cases):

2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Find a leaper that can move freely on the board code-golfgridgraphs This could use a catchier title... I recently got a really weird irregular chess board. It's squares are all over the place and not even all connected. At least they're still laid out on a regular grid. I want to adapt the che...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

wait let me make a chess golf lang first

In seriousness, how about "Leaper Seeker" for a title?

FryAmTheEggman

@PhiNotPi Oh, I actually think I misread your question. I don't think there is a way to do it for any arbitrary ring? But again I don't know much about it, sorry :P

PhiNotPi

@FryAmTheEggman I hadn't seen that wiki article, so I'm reading that now.

Martin Büttner

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ that's not bad but 2 characters too short :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3:57 PM

"Free-Leaper Seeker"?

mınxomaτ

Recently, a man in Germany tried to retrieve his keys using a magnet. He got a hand grenade instead.

flawr

@mınxomaτ You know you are in Germany...

mınxomaτ

Well, I guess he could open his door with both.

8

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

true XD

flawr

@Geobits Ha cool! How do you determine the position/size of the finger holes?

@mınxomaτ But locking the door again could be problematic depending on what he used.

Geobits

4:02 PM

@flawr The charts here are a good rough guide, but you'll want a decent tuner on hand to dial it in while you're doing the holes.

flawr

So can you still adjust the tuning by making the holes bigger? I mean sadly there is no Crtl+Z IRL=)

Geobits

Ha, yea. Start a bit smaller than the charts tell you, and stop when you get the right note. Much easier than the opposite :P

flawr

But thats a really cool idea!

Geobits

After I did a few pvc ones, I also made a small steel one. It's hard to say which is my favorite, but the steel definitely has a different sound.

flawr

Do you play any instruments other than those?=)

Geobits

4:13 PM

I dabble on guitar and keyboard also.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

High correlation between code golfing and music playing... why no music golf?

Nathan Merrill

high correlation between music and programming I'd say

we have had a couple of challenges related to instruments and music notation

Martin Büttner

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Seeking Leapers?

Nathan Merrill

I actually had one about brass fingerings:

6

Q: Brass Fingerings

For this challenge, you need to print out the fingerings for various brass instruments. The notes an instrument can play (as well as their fingerings) are listed below: Cornet Baritone Trumpet Bugle French Horn Euphonium Tuba A#0 ...

code-golf music

but only got 1 answer :(

Martin Büttner

(better than Leaking Seepers or Seeping Leakers, I guess...)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

4:20 PM

@MartinBüttner Oo, that's nice.

Sp3000

Sweeper leaper seeker

Sherlock9

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ What would musical programming look like?

Bloody ridiculous Internet connection

zyabin101

\\ || // /_ _\ NC
\| |\ |/ /| 45°
\/ |_ /\ _| 90°
\_ _/ 135°
__ 180°

I mapped squiggles to angles.

Martin Büttner

how are /_ and _\ 0°?

zyabin101

@MartinBüttner They aren't connected.

Nathan Merrill

4:24 PM

esolangs.org/wiki/Musical_notes

Martin Büttner

also esolangs.org/wiki/Fugue

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Sherlock9 Prelude.

zyabin101

@Sherlock9 Interestingly, the few of times when a double message is to be posted, my connection get timed out. :-) The double message doesn't post.

Sp3000

@Sp3000 Got friend to say this ten times fast, they messed up with "leaker" on the second go

zyabin101

Challenge idea: determine the average angle of a squiggle string.

_/\_ ==> 120°

Sp3000

4:29 PM

12

Q: Smooth vs. Chunky vs. Broken Squiggles

Based on Chunky vs. Smooth Strings. Squiggles /\_/\/\__/\/\/\/\_/\_/\ are fun to make on a keyboard when you are really bored. But not all squiggles are created equal. Some squiggles are smooth, like \___/, and some are chunky, like /\/\/\/\. Others are just downright broken, like ////_\\\ I...