The Nineteenth Byte

Easterly Irk

19:00

@Mego ಠ_ಠ

Optimizer

which increases popularity and keeps things in business

Easterly Irk

@Lembik yes.

has much golf power

Anonymous

@EasterlyIrk Sweatshops and abusive management are a GREAT example

Optimizer

plus the continuum was a very good direction , along with universal apps starting from 8.1

Solver

Going to answer a question.

Goodbye.

Optimizer

19:01

Going to optimize an answer.
Goodbye.

El'endia Starman

Oh wow, Rust tops the list of most loved languages. @Doorknob

Oh my gosh, WordPress is second on the list of most dreaded "languages".

Doorknob

Mar 17 at 17:43, by Doorknob

oh hey @AlexA. @AlexA. @AlexA. guess which language was considered "most loved" on the 2016 SO dev survey :D

Optimizer

rust has a lot of potential

Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman I saw :P

Optimizer

specially when servo is right up the corner

Nathan Merrill

19:03

what languages don't natively support integers up to 2^31 ?

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman VB is top, yay

Dennis

@NathanMerrill Brainfuck

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill brainfuck, boolfuck, *fuck

Dennis

> *fuck

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob Still haven't gotten to that point in the transcript. :P

Nathan Merrill

19:03

it only supports a bit right?

Anonymous

@Dennis *fuck meaning insert BF derivative here

Easterly Irk

Anybody have problems with lichess sending account verification emails?

Lembik

@Mego ZX Spectrum BASIC :)

Anonymous

brainfuck only supports bytes

El'endia Starman

I'm also happy that Python made the top 10 of most loved languages.

Lembik

19:04

@NathanMerrill BBC Basic

I could go on.. :)

El'endia Starman

Oooh, and it's #4 on most wanted.

Lembik

8086 assembly :)

Anonymous

C/C++ may or may not natively support 32-bit ints, depending on your hardware

Dennis

@NathanMerrill Brainfuck supports bytes (most implementations do anyway). There are more than a few assemblies that only operate on 8 or 16-bit integers as well.

Nathan Merrill

@Lembik oooh, what does BBC basic support?

Lembik

19:05

@Mego does C99 not allow you to specify uint32 ?

@NathanMerrill I assume 8 bit ints

Anonymous

@Lembik I wouldn't consider that natively supporting on an 8-bit platform

Nathan Merrill

well, I was thinking about answering this question:

5

Q: Integer range defaults for challenges

When writing challenges involving integer I/O, I always find myself having to type the same thing: You may assume that the input and output will not exceed the maximum representable range in your language. I think it would be useful if we had a default for integer ranges in challenges, to avoid n...

Anonymous

C/C++ natively uses the word size of the hardware platform

Nathan Merrill

and I was wondering if simply having a fixed number would be a good idea

Anonymous

Which, for most modern computers, is either 32 or 64 bits

Easterly Irk

19:06

@Doorknob Lichess have failed me.

Lembik

@Mego pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/stdint.h.html I am sure you are right.. C is very weird if you stick to the specs :)

Anonymous

But there are still platforms with smaller sizes

Easterly Irk

Why can people stand it?

Nathan Merrill

its less ambiguous, and most languages can deal with it

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill If you were going with a fixed number, I'd say 8-bit integers, signed or unsigned (depending on the challenge).

Lembik

19:07

@Mego oh actually.. C99 does not allow implementations without an integer type of at least 64 bits, since long long is required to be at least that large.

Anonymous

@Lembik C does not require any specific bit width for data types, only that they are at least as wide as the next-smallest type. Except for long long, which C99 requires to be at least 64 bits, apparently. Weird.

Nathan Merrill

@Mego most challenges have numbers bigger than 255 XP

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Then the challenge authors can always override the defaults

Anonymous

I'm still in favor of "the native range of your language or 32 bits, whichever is smaller"

Doorknob

@EasterlyIrk what

Nathan Merrill

19:10

although seriously: what kind of computers (Even ancient ones) only used numbers up to 255

Anonymous

There's not a whole lot of circumstances I can think of where that policy would cause issues

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill NES

Easterly Irk

27 hours and 34 minutes before they sent an email confirming my account.

Nathan Merrill

"Sorry sir, your paycheck is only $255 this month, as we can't represent a larger number"

Easterly Irk

>.<

@NathanMerrill Glad it isn't a overflow, getting -256 would suck.

Doorknob

19:11

@EasterlyIrk what...?

Geobits

It's that time of year again.

Easterly Irk

@Doorknob yep

Doorknob

I have no idea what you're saying

Anonymous

@EasterlyIrk It wouldn't overflow like that. It'd either be [0, 255] or [-128, 127] (unsigned or signed)

Anonymous

Unless you had a 9-bit platform, but then I'd have more questions

Nathan Merrill

19:13

@Mego remember the glory days of "trinary is the next best thing"

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill ternary

Geobits

A 9-trit platform would make more sense.

Nathan Merrill

ah, I knew it was wrong

I won't ping you again

Easterly Irk

@Mego eh

Anonymous

Ternary would be really cool except that it doesn't make any sense for electronics

Nathan Merrill

19:14

I'd be all for base 12 computer

and a base 12 world

but those NAND gates would be horrid to write

Anonymous

Base 16 yo

El'endia Starman

@Mego You can make it make sense...it'd just be significantly harder.

Geobits

Base 10 is the best base :P

Lembik

@Mego definitely weird :)

Nathan Merrill

strawpoll.me/7155178

Doorknob

19:16

@NathanMerrill What is 6? I don't have 6. I use base 10.

Geobits

Is "Base 12" base twelve, or base five in ternary? That poll is so confusing.

Nathan Merrill

lol

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Rather than 0/5V, you'd need 0/5/10V, which means more power used and therefore more heat, making computers less efficient energy-wise

Dennis

Everybody uses base 10.

Geobits

1 min ago, by Geobits

Base 10 is the best base :P

Anonymous

19:17

Base 10 is your base's base regardless of what your base is

Doorknob

No, not with base 1

Nathan Merrill

unless its base 0

Geobits

@Mego You could probably use something like -5/0/5, but it would still be needlessly complicated.

El'endia Starman

@Mego Or maybe 0/2.5/5V. In any case, your objection wasn't "it doesn't make sense". :P

Nathan Merrill

the problem with base 0 is that you can't even name your base

Anonymous

19:18

@Doorknob If you define a unary number's value as "the number of 1 digits in this number", it works

Anonymous

@Geobits -5/0/5 == 0/5/10

Lembik

ternary nambucca.com.au/little-tern/little-tern-07.jpg ?

hmm.. how do I insert a picture?

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman 2.5 V isn't enough of a difference for it to be reliable

El'endia Starman

@Mego I remember a teacher/professor who would write the names of bases. As in, 1001101_two or 256_ten.

Geobits

@Mego -ish

Anonymous

19:19

@El'endiaStarman That's a little weird. I've seen 1001101_2 and 256_10, but not written-out English words

Dennis

@Doorknob Bijective bases are weird.

El'endia Starman

@Mego Well, his reasoning was that you don't know what base 10 is in...

Anonymous

@Geobits Since voltages are just differences, they're the same. It's just a matter of choosing a different value to call "0".

Lembik

my hilarious tern joke hasn't done so well :)

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman The accepted norm is that you use decimal for base notations. Your professor was being overly pedantic.

Geobits

19:22

@Mego That's one way of looking at it. My years of electronics experience rebel at the thought, though. 0V is "no difference".

Dennis

If decimal is the accepted convention, 256_10 is just silly.

El'endia Starman

Eh, I wouldn't say he was being pedantic. I remember it being more in the sense of "you're making an assumption".

Lembik

I wonder if anyone will submit a non-mergesort answer... maybe I should have thought of a way of encouraging that

Anonymous

@Geobits That's still a correct interpretation. 0V is "no difference from the ground/reference potential", to be exact. By changing your reference potential, you change the voltage values.

El'endia Starman

@Lembik I think you're leaning a little too far towards making challenge answerers do what you want.

Geobits

19:25

Sure, but using non-ground reference makes my brain tingle.

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman That's exactly what pedantry is - not being willing to make assumptions

Anonymous

@Geobits Just choose a different ground :)

El'endia Starman

@Mego I said nothing about willingness or the lack thereof.

Geobits

@Mego D:

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman I shouldn't make an assumption -> I am unwilling to make assumptions -> I have to be precise -> I am being pedantic

El'endia Starman

19:27

Writing out base names, while usually unnecessary, is completely unambiguous.

@Mego I didn't say anything about "should" or "shouldn't" either.

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman right... lucky I didn't do it :)

Anonymous

@Geobits Even the actual ground isn't a constant potential

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman although really what I want is many varied answers :)

Anonymous

There might be a potential difference of ~2V between the dirt where you are and the dirt where I am

Geobits

I know, but it's close enough for most purposes.

And (relatively) constant over time in a given area.

El'endia Starman

19:29

@Lembik You kinda did away with that when you restricted the complexity to O(n log n)...

Anonymous

And there's no need to even use a metal rod sticking out of the dirt in most cases - as long as you have a constant reference, you're fine

Easterly Irk

@Dennis Including this guy:

El'endia Starman

Oh hello @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ, normal conversation in here at present. :P

Easterly Irk

^

Geobits

@Mego And your equipment is isolated from things that do rely on a metal rod, that is ;)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:30

（ΦωΦ）

El'endia Starman

Nails in your eyes doesn't seem normal though.

Easterly Irk

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I hate the new SE mobile chat BTW

Geobits

As opposed to the old, ~~non~~ barely-functioning one? o_O

Easterly Irk

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:31

I had to click reply in order to get this dialogue open

Anonymous

@Geobits In the context of computers, which is what this discussion was about originally, your reference is the neutral wire in your power supply, which can be literally anything compared to true ground.

Dennis

256_
ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}}}},{ø,{ø},{ø,{ø}},{ø,{…

Anonymous

@Dennis This looks like Perl

2

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

And all I've heard from you Riker is "^" >_>

Easterly Irk

ohai

not anymore

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:32

＼(-_______-;)／

Easterly Irk

I HAVE BIG VOCABULARY

big

Dennis

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Then disable it.

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman nooooo... :) there are a lot of O(n log n) time sorting algorithms out there

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

How? @dennis

Easterly Irk

15 words and digits

orlp

19:33

@Mego no it doesn't

Dennis

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Go to chat.stackexchange.com/users/129255/c-ob?tab=prefs, uncheck box.

Geobits

@Mego Sure. I've also worked on avionics computers, which vary wildly from "ground" once in the air. That doesn't keep my brain from making up its own mind about this.

orlp

@Mego it can't be perl - the characters don't overlap

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Thanks! :D

Anonymous

@orlp It's exactly as unreadable as Perl is (to me)

Easterly Irk

19:35

^

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Aaand since your question is code-golf, I highly doubt that most of those O(n log n) sorting algorithms (11 out of 25) will be any shorter than merge sort.

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman maybe not shorter.. but maybe just fun :)

Anonymous

@Geobits Well tell your brain to stop being silly :P

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman which is after all why we are all here!

Nathan Merrill

@Lembik and here comes the infamous "must be competitive" restriction

El'endia Starman

19:36

@Lembik In whatever language you're using, you're supposed to pick the shortest implementation (that you can think of).

Geobits

@Mego Tell your engineers to stop renaming things with 100+ years of legacy :P

Lembik

@NathanMerrill What is that?

El'endia Starman

And, honestly, who knows how to implement Timsort, or Cubesort, or binary tree sort, or...?

Lembik

I thought you could do what you like and see where the votes fall

@El'endiaStarman err.... some people :)

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill As I stated in my answer to the relevant meta post, I don't think there's an issue with using a suboptimal algorithm/approach, so long as that algorithm/approached is actually golfed

El'endia Starman

19:37

Some people...who would also know how to do merge sort.

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman yes yes.. I understand that the easiest route is to do merge sort :)

Nathan Merrill

@Mego which is closer to what I think the requirement should be "Shows effort"

Lembik

but not everyone chooses the easiest route.. surely!

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Probably also the shortest.

Cyoce

I am a fan of the tri-fold platypus convergence sort

orlp

19:38

@Dennis btw lembik's sorting golf never states anything about counting sorts

Lembik

@Cyoce good algorithm!

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill That's essentially what I tried to boil my meta answer down to, but being more specific so that it's less subjective

orlp

and you can do better than O(n log n) even on unbounded integers

Lembik

@orlp well yes.. but not much :)

and no one has ever implemented those methods

orlp

8

Q: Is integer sorting possible in O(n) in the transdichotomous model?

To my knowledge there doesn't exist a $O(n)$ worst-case algorithm that solves the following problem: Given a sequence of length $n$ consisting of finite integers, find the permutation where every element is less than or equal to its successor. But is there a proof that it doesn't exist, in ...

complexity-theory sorting computation-models lower-bounds

sadly the answers to that question are beyond useless

as they don't even read the question

Anonymous

19:40

Code Jam registration is open!

orlp

dx.doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.jalgor.2003.09.001

Lembik

@orlp true

@orlp I dare you to implement that :)

Anonymous

code.google.com/codejam

Nathan Merrill

why do we require serious contenders?

I mean, people here are competitive

Easterly Irk

@Mego YUSS

Anonymous

19:43

@NathanMerrill Because ungolfed submissions in code golf are far too commonly posted and have no place in code golf challenges

Zach Gates

@Mego Are you participating?

Anonymous

@ZachGates No, I'm just excited about it for no reason :P

Nathan Merrill

@Mego so, we are trying to filter out "newbie" submissions?

Zach Gates

@Mego Oh :P It's a lot of fun

Nathan Merrill

there's a better solution for that: comment and downvote

Anonymous

19:44

@NathanMerrill No, we're trying to filter out zero-effort submissions

Anonymous

@ZachGates So is sarcasm, or so I've heard :P

Zach Gates

ಠ_ಠ

Nathan Merrill

commenting and downvoting still works for zero-effort submissions

Dennis

@NathanMerrill There's a difference between badly golfed and not golfed at all. Newcomers are entitled to post badly golfed answers (everybody has to start somewhere), but they have to try at least.

Anonymous

Submissions that make no effort to achieve a good score according to the primary winning criterion are not allowed on this site

Nathan Merrill

19:45

@Dennis I was referring to people that posted and didn't understand that it was even a competition at all

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Flag, comment, delete

orlp

@Lembik still have to finish this some day drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-vl-dPgKm_T0Fxeno1a0lGT0E/view

Dennis

@NathanMerrill Exactly. That is just as wrong as posting a golfed answer on SO, and it will have the same effect.

Lembik

@orlp looks fun!

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis but a golfed answer on SO isn't offtopic. It's simply a terrible answer

Easterly Irk

19:47

^

Dennis

Very low quality is still a reason for deletion.

Nathan Merrill

rather than trying to judge "how golfed is our minimum", we can simply vote based on how well the user is golfing

It'd still pass these criterion: meta.stackexchange.com/a/122447/234313

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill More relevant: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/7987/…

Dennis

@NathanMerrill That is for VLQ flags. Trusted users can vote to delete any answer with a negative score that they deem unfit for the site.

Nathan Merrill

I'm pretty sure that trusted users are deleting based on the same criterion (in most cases)

Anonymous

19:51

Also VLQ flags and delete votes can only happen on answers with a negative score. It's not implausible for a submission that is not a serious contender to have a positive score

Nathan Merrill

anyways, we aren't a Q&A site, so its really not the argument to make

Zach Gates

@Mego Why do you consider that answer not a serious contender?

Dennis

@NathanMerrill As a trusted user on SU, I have voted to delete many wrong answers that I couldn't have flagged for moderator attention.

Anonymous

@ZachGates As I outlined in my meta answer, the only chance it had at winning is if no other submissions were posted.

Nathan Merrill

the distinction though, is between "bad" and "wrong". I imagine the questions you deleted simply didn't work (or made the problem worse)

Kevin W.

19:54

@Mego Do we just ban all java Code Golf answers then?

Anonymous

@KevinW. Please read my answer more thoroughly; I specifically made a concession for per-language subcompetitions in code golf, and per-algorithm/approach subcompetitions.

Nathan Merrill

for example,

18

A: Java: Sort an array

It may help you understand loops by implementing yourself. See Bubble sort is easy to understand: public void bubbleSort(int[] array) { boolean swapped = true; int j = 0; int tmp; while (swapped) { swapped = false; j++; for (int i = 0; i < array.length - j...

Bubble sort is inefficient and slow

nobody should be writing their own sorting code

El'endia Starman

TIL about Stooge sort.

Stooge sort

Stooge sort is a recursive sorting algorithm with a time complexity of O(nlog 3 / log 1.5 ) = O(n2.7095...). The running time of the algorithm is thus slower compared to efficient sorting algorithms, such as Merge sort, and is even slower than Bubble sort, a canonical example of a fairly inefficient and simple sort. The algorithm is defined as follows: If the value at the end is smaller than the value at the start, swap them. If there are 3 or more elements in the list, then: Stooge sort the initial 2/3 of the list Stooge sort the final 2/3 of the list Stooge sort the initial 2/3 of the list again...

Dennis

@ZachGates My main problem with that answer is that is uses 55 if the allowed 1024 bytes. There is so much room for improvement, but the poster doesn't want to.

Nathan Merrill

but its still a valid answer

Anonymous

19:56

@El'endiaStarman Wow the oneboxed image is animated :o

El'endia Starman

WAIT WHAT THE WIKIPEDIA ONEBOX HAS THE GIF

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman ninjo'd

El'endia Starman

I was halfway through typing when I saw your message. Finished anyway. :P

Dennis

@NathanMerrill That's for sorting an array of size 10. Bubble sort is perfectly well suited for this task. Anyway, this doesn't matter, since SO doesn't hold programming competitions.

Nathan Merrill

right, I agree, we are different

Dennis

19:58

@NathanMerrill Is that a continuation of your thoughts on the SO answer or a response to my response to Zach?

orlp

@Dennis bubblesort is pretty much always worse than insertion sort

Nathan Merrill

response to "Anyway, this doesn't matter, since SO doesn't hold programming competitions."

Zach Gates

@Mego I think it was a clever answer. No, it isn't a winning answer, but it was clever and at least some effort was put in. What makes that answer any different from the ones that simply blur the image, or answers that drew several rectangles of various colors?

@Dennis ^

Dennis

@NathanMerrill I meant but its still a valid answer.

@orlp For 10 integers, does it really matter?

Nathan Merrill

oh it was a continuous of my thoughts

I should have hovered over the arrow

mbomb007

19:59

@Dennis I found a bug in http://smbf.tryitonline.net
This code is an infinite loop with empty input, but shouldn't be: ,[]

orlp

@Dennis yes

Anonymous

@ZachGates Drawing a single rectangle of a constant color is about as low-effort as you can get. The only way it could be lower-effort is if the default color was used.

Nathan Merrill

in some cases, it can be super easy to detect whether an attempt was made (no whitespace was removed)

Anonymous

It's not clever at all, and there is absolutely no way that submission could win if there were other, serious-contender submissions posted

orlp

@NathanMerrill so we're disallowing whitespace now?

seems like a fine language to me

Nathan Merrill

20:01

but for languages where whitespace matters (or isn't usually included anyways), it becomes tough

epicTCK

organizing bookmarks. I could do this all day.

orlp

IMO noncompetitive answers are fine

if you don't like their golfing, downvote

Zach Gates

@Mego I believe answers like this are the "non-serious contenders".

orlp

let's not make arbitrary rules about what counts as trying or not

Dennis

@mbomb007 I don't remember, but I think I never got to replacing the other interpreter with yours. I should do that.

Nathan Merrill

20:02

@orlp I agree, but that's not the current state of the site

Zach Gates

@orlp Completely agree

El'endia Starman

@mbomb007 I keep reading "SMBF" as "Super Mario BF". >_<

zyabin101

@El'endiaStarman lol

El'endia Starman

The existence of MarioLANG as a BF-like language doesn't help. :P

Dennis

@orlp The answers I comment on or delete for not being competitive usually have a couple of upvotes already. Downvoting answers works in theory. In practice, the number of people who blindly upvote seems higher than the number of people who a willing to sacrifice part of their rep for some quality control.

El'endia Starman

20:05

^ That's what kinda makes me mad about that (almost-) no-effort answer.

+120/-19

It's literally the worst answer!

Dennis

Second worst, after a blank image.

El'endia Starman

*worst (posted)

Dennis

Well, there are even worse ones, but they'd require more effort.

@El'endiaStarman Oh, nevermind.

orlp

@El'endiaStarman which

Dennis

And yes, a great answer score for something like this is a big slap in the face for those who spent hours if not days to write a good answer. Cheek trumps effort 9 times out of 10.

3

El'endia Starman

20:08

@orlp This one.

Dennis

This is also why I consider popularity contests a bad idea. If this had been a pop con (like the OP originally planned), that answer would have won.

6

Nathan Merrill

hmmm...I think I understand where we differ @Dennis I prefer the theoretical, unambigous rule, where you prefer the rules that actually work

Liam

Yeah that answer annoyed me a lot. I think this is the main reason that PeterTaylor complains about Hot Questions appearing in the se network feeds

well not the answer itself, just the amount of upvotes it got

orlp

lol

reddit's strategy against brown bears:

Brown bears are smart. If you play dead, they'll swipe at your genitals (and probably rip them off) to see if you're really dead. This is when you use the bear spray. Apply it directly to your own eyeballs to distract you from the pain of having your genitals ripped off.

Dennis

@NathanMerrill And I agree that the current rule is ambiguous. If it weren't, that solid image answer would already have been deleted.

(Or at least not cause that much controversy.)

Nathan Merrill

20:23

yeah

mbomb007

@El'endiaStarman lol :D

@Dennis Yeah. I'm not sure if this bug is related or not. Possibly. I don't remember how the Perl interpreter handles empty input...

Dennis

Badly, it seems.

quartata

20:37

It seems to handle it normally.

Kevin W.

@quartata doing things badly is normal for Perl

quartata

I mean it seems to just put an empty string in $_.

I don't see how that's a bad thing....

Dennis

If you're talking about implicit ways of input, the program won't run at all for empty input.

quartata

What program?

mbomb007

Every time I see someone's answer in Jelly, I imagine they must be thinking, "My code is sooo short. You jelly? ^_^"

quartata

20:42

@Dennis Ooh, thanks for reminding me. I was going to add a question about pop cons to the Q&A

mbomb007

@quartata I read that as "pop cans" lol. +5¢

El'endia Starman

3 hours ago, by El'endia Starman

That 3-byte Jelly solution hurts.

And now that it's 2 bytes, combine with ಠ_ಠ.

Doorknob

Registration for Code Jam 2016 is now open!

mbomb007

@Doorknob I'm not in that league. :P

ven

^

FryAmTheEggman

20:45

@Doorknob chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/28440743#28440743

Super ninja'd

Doorknob

@mbomb007 I participated last year, failed miserably, and still had fun :P

El'endia Starman

@FryAmTheEggman At least Doorknob linked to it.

mbomb007

That's like saying, hey, the world Chess tourney is happening soon, wanna face Magnus Carlsen?

Doorknob

Hey, even if you only get past the qualification round it's still fun :P

FryAmTheEggman

@El'endiaStarman If you need a link to something hosted by Google you have a problem :P

muddyfish

20:47

I'd be too busy being tired to program at those times :(

zyabin101

@Doorknob uDebug alliws to calculate accepted output from a given input.

Yes, it includes Code Jam. :-)

El'endia Starman

@FryAmTheEggman Welllll.....laziness is a thing, y'know...

mbomb007

@FryAmTheEggman Here's a cool link: google.com

2

@Doorknob I'd rather try Ludum Dare

El'endia Starman

@mbomb007 ....I was expecting the target to be something else...

mbomb007

@El'endiaStarman :D

Wish I'd thought of that...

FryAmTheEggman

20:50

LMGTFY or whatever? :P

Nathan Merrill

Ludum Dare and Code Jam are totally different

mbomb007

@NathanMerrill Yeah... so?

El'endia Starman

@FryAmTheEggman No, something that's often sneakily inserted into an innocent-seeming link.

mbomb007

@NathanMerrill You have a chance to win at one, and not the other.

Nathan Merrill

lol

ven

20:51

I'm allowed to post multiple answers (different lang) to the same question, right?

mbomb007

In my case, probably neither.

Nathan Merrill

If any of you remember me talking about Google foobar, I did get contacted by a google recruiter because of it

El'endia Starman

@ven Yes.

mbomb007

@ven YES! As many as u want.

Nathan Merrill

but yeah, you're right, winning at code jam is pretty impossible

El'endia Starman

20:52

Not just a little impossible. Pretty impossible.

mbomb007

I have problems with data structures, and algorithms.

No way would I win at a world competition.

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman no making fun of me :P

El'endia Starman

I wasn't making fun of you.

mbomb007

I never even won regionals in the ACM International Collegiate Programming Contest.

Nathan Merrill

I know, it was a jest :P

El'endia Starman

20:53

:)

mbomb007

@orlp Instead, lets vote on what counts as trying or not.

@MartinBüttner Some of the new Retina features sound confusing. It'd be helpful to have some examples using limits and nested loops.

ven

How do I strike text?

Anonymous

3 dashes

El'endia Starman

^ in chat

Anonymous

---strikethrough---

El'endia Starman

20:57

<s>text</s> in main/meta site posts.

ven

okay, thanks :)

Dennis

@quartata What question?

FryAmTheEggman

Isn't <s> being deprecated eventually? I thought we were supposed to switch to <del>?

quartata

@Dennis What their thoughts on pop cons are.

Anonymous

@quartata meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/8768/45941

quartata

20:58

@FryAmTheEggman Technically neither should be used; CSS should be used instead.

El'endia Starman

@FryAmTheEggman I haven't even heard of <del>. o.O

Dennis

@quartata That's unrelated to moderation IMHO.

quartata

@Mego Ah, good point.

El'endia Starman

@quartata You still need some sort of marker to know what to apply the strikethrough to.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Right, I'm just saying.

El'endia Starman

20:59

I'll bet <del> is the marker in this case.

Transcript for