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12:00 AM
@AlexA. o noes my server became a negerian prince scam
 
Maybe it's not Nigeria's prince
Maybe it's Nigeria's Minister of Finance
 
Maybe.... IT'S @ALEXA.'S SOCK!!!!
 
@xnor I was wondering if you'd seen my challenge in the sandbox - was hoping to get someone with a mathematical background to look over it before I post :)
 
@Quill oops
@Sp3000 that. is. epic.
 
@CoolestVeto o_O "Flasp"?
 
12:05 AM
^
link me pls
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I got arrays in FOG!!!!
Working on the dropsort challenge.
 
@EasterlyIrk Oh, yeah, cool!
So many new languages
 
@Sp3000 interesting, i haven't worked with this base
it's not clear to me at first why it's surjective -- how would you represent 2?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ PPCG mc server?
 
oh, that's your example :-)
 
12:08 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you can live in my house as in my cave part, you don't need a new hut.
 
:) It's not obvious to me why it's surjective either, and I haven't had time to try proving it yet, but I've checked a couple of sources which say the same
 
@EasterlyIrk D: but the sticky pistons!
 
You can move them. :P
 
but i need roomate
:(
 
12:10 AM
okai fine
 
:D
As reward you can has emerald.
 
moar if you give string or raw pork/chicken
 
@Doorknob docs for x11 window manager hints and stuff like that
 
@EasterlyIrk are you a villager?
 
12:11 AM
yes
totally
 
just play the game m8
 
i has pet vilalgers
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ i only have mineshafter account
and no moneys for real one
 
@Maltysen uh wat?
 
I saw your "village." It's literally a child labor camp
 
12:12 AM
mine?
not mien
 
baby villagers working in the soil 24/7
 
not me
That is 1's I think
 
The one by the mesa is yours right
 
i have no babby vilalger
and no
 
RIKER PLAY THE GAME
 
12:14 AM
i am on
:P
 
@Sp3000 I like how the input and output are both in the base. It gives the option of converting, summing, and converting back, or of finding a way to do the addition solely in the base.
 
Yeah, I've found at least one way to do it without converting, hence why I thought this would be more interesting :)
(whether it's golfier is a separate question though)
 
you say there are no extraneous leading zeroes, but 0 is an example input
i'd argue that that has a leading 0 for the empty string, convention aside
perhaps allow empty string for 0, both as the input and output form?
 
Sounds good
 
can the output take any of the formats allowed as input?
 
12:19 AM
That was the intention, yes (string or decimal integer with digits 01)
The only part I'm hung up about is allowing the binary version, since I'm not sure whether bitwise will help here
(binary as in base 2, e.g. 12 for 1100)
 
i can totally imagine it helping just because /2 is shorter than /10.
 
Hm... the only reason it's not allowed atm was I thought it'd make the input format a bit uglier, but I'm not sure whether that's a good reason
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

CAD97One space, Two space, 😡, 😨 code-golf There are endless arguments for using one or two spaces after a period. You don't really care, but decided to make a tool to make switching easy. Given a String and an Integer, reformat the string to have exactly that number of spaces after each period. ...

 
12:37 AM
Hmm I guess it wouldn't be too bad, and I am curious if bitwise will help
 
bitunwise
 
bitfoolish
Bit wise, byte foolish.
 
@xnor Updated to allow /2 :)
 
Is there an STV challenge yet?
 
Star Trek: Voyager?
 
12:46 AM
hahaha
Btw @Sp3000, I really like your challenge.
 
@Sp3000 small nitpick: for the choice of 0 vs empty string, you're allowed leading zeroes in output, so you could take input as empty string and output as 0?
 
@Sp3000 Vger
 
Oof, good point. I'll go remove that part about them having to be the same
 
@Quill Probably not, and I like the topicality of that.
Maybe save it for election day though. :P
 
12:50 AM
@Sp3000 Your challenge looks good to me. I'm interested to see what people come up with.
 
:) same
@AlexA. Thanks - I like it too, hence why I don't want to mess this one up with input/output bureaucracy! :D
 
Haha fair point
Also, it appears your services are needed for Lembik's challenge
@Lembik I think Sp3000 and Doorknob are our resident Nim and Rust experts, respectively. Hopefully they join the fun too. ;) — Alex A. ♦ 5 hours ago
 
I saw that, and I'd like to question the title of "resident Nim expert"
 
oh man Nim?
where?
 
More like "I've used Nim about 3 times, so that's more than most people on this site I guess?"
 
12:52 AM
Exactly :D
 
isn't Nim a game?
 
oh it's a programming language
i'm disappointed, i thought it was the game
 
Actually, I haven't answered that question because Dennis' answer there irks me a little
 
@xnor Here!
Well, if you post it, that is
 
Ahaha, I think we've had Nim game challenges too
 
12:53 AM
@Sp3000 In what way?
 
It just means there's an ongoing discussion as to what's actually valid as an answer
 
that solution is totally not O(n log n)
 
^
 
the asymptotics needs to be worst-case, and the range of numbers in the input is unbounded in the parameter n
 
12:55 AM
@El'endiaStarman Do it before that
 
It's kind of a problem of "incomparable time complexities" :/
 
So you guys can use the dataset SE provides once the election results are out
 
@AlexA. o_O
what is that?
 
Idk. My girlfriend sends me weird stuff.
 
@AlexA. I don't think I've seen any of these characters in Harry Potter. o.O
 
12:55 AM
Apparently she sends us weird stuff.
 
I'm just passing it along, paying my dues to the internet
 
Oh crap, is it dues time again?
 
[reposts top picture on front page of Imgur]
 
Yeah man. The IRS (Internet Revenue Site) is coming.
 
out of curiosity: How do you guys feels about the signal to noise ratio here? Do you like the amount of off-topic chat here, or do you wish there was less/more of it?
 
12:57 AM
 
@NathanMerrill Personally, I think it's fine.
 
@NathanMerrill I certainly don't wish there was more off topic content. I think sometimes it could be a little lower (because at times I do think it gets to be a bit much) but for the most part I'm not bothered by it.
 
Personally I think it'd be good if there was more on-topic chat, but I'd rather off-topic chat than no activity
 
@NathanMerrill I don't see any problem with off-topic chat, given that it mostly happens when there isn't an abundance of on-topic chat.
 
^
 
12:58 AM
@AlexA. Ted Cruz promises to ABOLISH THE IRS
 
Sure, but he probably wants to replace it with some church-related agency.
 
his voice is so annoying
 
It's no worse than the constant smug look.
 
I'd love to see a political candidate that's not from the generation that tolerated homophobia
 
Who'd be run out of town as "too young" :/
 
1:00 AM
they're so old, they're trying to do things "the old fashioned way"
 
At least for the presidency. There are some of the newer generation coming up in local/smaller offices.
 
@Maltysen Well, that is something that needs to be done
 
I've just been thinking about it since Peter Taylor's last chat
 
@SuperJedi224 idk bout that, but the way he says it is so funny
he's trying to have a booming voice but failing hard
 
Its fairly sad that we've lost a chat regular in here
 
1:02 AM
@Quill I've seen it said that it's good that the governmental bureaucracy is slow, and I think part of the reason is so that we don't overreact to every minor issue.
 
Also the ForceLang update I was working on has now been published
 
especially since he brought amazing maths to this place
 
Can you imagine if the nation was run by college students?
 
@El'endiaStarman When you're waiting on something from the government, that sounds worse and worse each day.
 
@Geobits There is such a thing as being too slow.
 
1:03 AM
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
 
Politics now is more the art of media management.
 
@NathanMerrill If it's any indication, I'd like to also say that I used to check the transcript quite frequently to see what I've missed, but no longer bother
Having said that, that might not necessarily be a bad sign - it could just be that we have a lot more users now
 
@HelkaHomba Hi
 
I've considered perhaps having a "challenge-related" chat
but not sure it would get the users needed
 
1:05 AM
There is a dedicated room for asking about golfing but it keeps getting frozen for inactivity.
 
@NathanMerrill No doubt the government does a lot of good. It's also bloated and wasteful as all hell, though. They're not mutually exclusive.
 
having an "off topic chat" certainly wouldn't work, as trying to force users there would be too hostile
 
Yeah that's the problem - if the chat was purely on-topic, there wouldn't be enough activity for people to check it all the time
 
@Geobits yeah, I've found that most of the waste comes from contractors to the government
 
There's a ton of it in the defense dept also, not related to contractors (well, them too, but). I was part of it for a decade ;)
But contracting is a big problem for sure.
There's a reason companies love to get govt contracts, and it isn't civic duty.
 
1:08 AM
not sure if you watched the video, but he actually goes over the budget, and talks how the actual "core" government is pretty lean
 
@Geobits I think you're probably not far off, and I also think that this is going to change before long. At least, so long as the internet doesn't get restricted by rich people/corporations.
 
but yeah, I totally agree
 
@NathanMerrill In 1920, the federal government's total anual budget amounted to a grand total of about $1.02B. Even accounting for inflation, there is no excuse for the amount they are spending today.
 
Granted, the country was pretty different a hundred years ago.
 
@SuperJedi224 look at the actual budget (not the total dollar amount, but where they are putting the money)
 
1:11 AM
@NathanMerrill Something that I've been trying to do is encourage discussions with a large amount of activity to create and use their own room. A recent examples include the JavaScript operating system and the Town of Salem discussion.
 
@AlexA. not criticism, but perhaps we would benefit if those conversations were in here?
 
21
Q: How much idle chatter do we tolerate in The 2nd Monitor?

MastRelated but not a duplicate: How far off-topic can we get in 'the 2nd monitor'? Today was a complicated day in the history of The 2nd Monitor. On one side there appears to be consensus something went wrong which should be handled. On the other side there appears to be disagreement about how muc...

We did that on CR
we move all off-topic and interrupting conversation to a secondary room
which is usually dead
 
@NathanMerrill i second that motion
I like the low signal to noise ratio because it keeps things interesting and it exposes you to everything
 
@NathanMerrill I thought the OS discussion was interesting (and at times instructive) apart from it mostly being pictures of avocados that said "jQuery" at the time it was relocated.
Talk of Salem would definitely better suited for its own room though, just as there's a room for the PPCG Minecraft server.
 
ah, so you were moving offtopic discussions
 
1:16 AM
I propose separate chat rooms if you're doing something on-topic and you don't want to be disturbed
 
I misunderstood
 
In the C.SE main chat room, we used to have long discussions that were all apologetics and/or polemics. We created a side room for those eventually and I think the main chat is better for it.
 
@SuperJedi224 That argument falls flat to me. It only works if you adhere to the policy that government should stay out of everything but the bare essentials. I don't agree with that, and my life has benefited from much government spending. I like interstates, for example.
 
does anyone know how to do cube root in bc? n^(1/3) is not working, where n is my number...
 
n**(1/3) IIRC
 
1:22 AM
what is bc?
 
@NathanMerrill *nix util
 
@quartata bc doesn't use ** it uses ^
 
Arbitrary precision calculator. Useful in bash scripts
 
cons js require njs
set canvas graphics.canvas js ({width:90,height:90,bg:0xAABBDD})
canvas.turnPen 45
canvas.setPenDown FALSE
canvas.setPenSize 14
canvas.move 40
canvas.setPenColor 0x880022
canvas.setPenDown TRUE
canvas.turnPen -16
canvas.move 20
canvas.turnPen 150
canvas.move 15
canvas.show()
 
@Downgoat Really? could have sworn...
 
1:24 AM
   expr ^ expr
          The result of the expression is the value of the first raised to
          the second.  The second expression must be an integer.  (If  the
 
Must be an integer eh
 
D:
then how do I do cbrt
 
@Downgoat there's a hack
 
pls tell
 
load bc with -l
 
1:25 AM
@Downgoat An effortless Google search for bc cube root returns nothing but helpful results
 
@Maltysen I did
 
then do e(l(n)/3)
 
@Maltysen what do l and e do?
 
1:26 AM
@Downgoat ln and e^x
 
Looks like cbrt(...) is a thing
 
cbrt(8)
Runtime error (func=(main), adr=5): Function cbrt not defined.
^[[A^[[Dbc(666,0x7fff7b056000) malloc: *** mach_vm_map(size=18446744071562067968) failed (error code=3)
*** error: can't allocate region
*** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
Fatal error: Out of memory for malloc.
uhhhhhh
 
yeah, none of the one's on google work for me
the ln and exp does
in general, you can do pow(a, b) with e(l(a)*b)
 
follow up question: Do you feel like mods should be taking more action to move off topic chatter?
 
What annoys me is not off-topic chatter, but pointless chatter.
 
1:31 AM
Sometimes I wish I could nuke entire conversations
@El'endiaStarman +1
 
(note, this is not a meta post, but if people feel like it is, then I will make one)
 
@Doorknob you can?
can't mods do move to trash?
 
@El'endiaStarman that seems very opinion based
what's the difference?
 
@Downgoat well, yes, in the same way that I can delete the entire chatroom, or suspend everyone in it
 
@Downgoat We can delete entire strings of messages, and all you'll get is one "these messages were deleted" message.
 
1:32 AM
@Doorknob ಠ_ಠ
 
@Sp3000 i thought i had a nice recursive solution for base i-1, but it gets stuck when the nums add to 0 :-(
 
@NathanMerrill I assume he means off topic as in unrelated to the site, versus pointless as in just crap.
 
^ basically
A page full of carrots or text faces is pointless.
 
pointless crap is like carrot stuff right? ninja'd :/
 
@xnor :( yeah, apparently I read that infinite leading zeroes could happen, which is a bit annoying
 
1:33 AM
but you don't mind the goverment/election chatter?
(which is off topic, but not pointless)?
 
No. That has some value.
So long as it doesn't go on too long.
 
@Sp3000 i wish i understood what the negation of a number looks like
 
@El'endiaStarman And so long as it doesn't interrupt site-related discussion, which should supersede all else
 
If it starts going longer than, say, three pages or so, then it might be worth moving it.
@Doorknob Absolutely.
On-topic discussion should always takes precedence over off-topic discussion.
 
I've actually never been bothered with multiple conversations happening at once
 
1:34 AM
@xnor The interesting part is... it's not obvious at all from just glancing, is it :/
 
(at least on this chat. Their replying features are pretty great)
 
@El'endiaStarman how does that work in practice though?
i've found that off-topic conversations tend to be high-volume and win out
 
I mean, we literally have 2 conversations going on right now (one on Sp3000's upcoming challenge, and this one)
 
@xnor There, fixed it. :P
 
isn't that why there's like a room for discussing code golf?
 
1:35 AM
@xnor but that's very true
 
@NathanMerrill i've found that works when i'm talking with a specific person or people who are notified by pings
 
I think it's fine when there are two, maybe three unrelated conversations happening at once. Any more than that and it gets confusing and hard to follow.
 
the harder case is when i want to discuss some golfing or so with nobody in particular
 
The use of the reply feature is very helpful in such cases.
 
@El'endiaStarman I don't think that's actually too common.
 
1:37 AM
Yeah, it's not very common.
 
I think xnor hit it: its that off topic conversations are high volume
(aka, people don't have to think about what they are saying)
 
sometimes i ask a question about golfing advice for some language, and it scrolls by so fast that i feel few people see it
 
@NathanMerrill If that's your definition of off-topic, you're probably thinking of something closer to what I think of as "pointless".
 
Do you (personally) pronounce Mu moo or mew?
 
so does all this mean there should be a separate room for general chatter?
@HelkaHomba Moo
 
1:38 AM
@Downgoat You're a goat not a cow
 
@xnor I've had that happen with questions I ask that are "secretly" about Pytek, and I usually just wait for the chatter to die down.
 
@El'endiaStarman I wasn't being pedantic, but I'd argue that both conversations are usually thought-less
 
@HelkaHomba .__________________________________.
 
@HelkaHomba /muː/
 
@HelkaHomba mew
 
1:39 AM
So... has anyone else written any custom ForceLang modules yet?
 
@Doorknob Assume for a minute I don't have English IPA memorized
2
 
IPA?
India pale ale?
 
International Phonetic Alphabet
 
@El'endiaStarman On the other hand, often times such a question doesn't get responses because people don't really have anything to contribute. It's not rare that I ask a question during a busy time, and then again during a quiet time and see little difference.
 
Mew, as in the pokemon
 
1:40 AM
@HelkaHomba Well, if you say so... :P
 
@El'endiaStarman woah, impressive self reply
 
@HelkaHomba oh, I thought that was just an incomplete sed replacement
 
that takes work
 
@NathanMerrill Not really. All replies start with :<chat message id number>.
 
@Downgoat ^
 
1:41 AM
right, but you can't just click on the reply button
you have to actually get the id number
 
@NathanMerrill Permalink gives it to you.
 
^
 
Or hover over the arrow on the left. Less effective when messages are going pretty quickly. :P
 
right, which is why its impressive
 
@xnor Sometimes I wish there was a filter option so I can go "has xnor said anything in the past day" :P
 
1:41 AM
Pinging yourself in the future is impressive
 
@HelkaHomba depends on how far into the future
 
:284494337 foo
bar
D:
 
It'd be easier if message ids were per-rooom
 
@NathanMerrill This chat keeps reminding me that nerds are cool :D
 
@HelkaHomba /ənd ʍaɪ.ɛvɹ̩ wʊd̚ ðæt biː ðə kʰeɪs/?
 
1:42 AM
@Quill spoiler alert: they aren't
 
@Doorknob oh my gosh. all the unicode...
 
I really need to set up my keyboard so I can type IPA without copy/pasting everything :D
 
> IPA
did it
 
@NathanMerrill depends who you ask ;)
 
@Doorknob you could always just use english words...
 
1:43 AM
@Geobits I bet you copy/pasted that
 
AutoHotKey
 
@Geobits nice
 
@Doorknob future ping
 
@Downgoat /ənd soʊ aɪ æm/
 
@Doorknob Typing in IPA is like speaking letter by letter >_>
 
1:44 AM
@NathanMerrill Minor difficulty: you can't guarantee that message is in this chat room.
 
I aim to
 
We just need to send super lotsa messages really fast
 
@Doorknob ... bleeeeeeeeet bleeet bleeeeeet bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
 
@HelkaHomba You gotta remember, he also likes lojban. If we can get him to change to IPA, I'd say that's a step in the right direction.
 
Hmmm... if I indent with a mixture of tabs and spaces, will that convince Geobits that spaces really aren't so bad?
 
1:45 AM
Eww no
That's worse than either.
 
past response
 
@Geobits Exactly. So... step in the right direction!
 
s/indent/tabulate/
 
bah, off by a second :(
 
@NathanMerrill Interesting. I refreshed the page, and your ping didn't show up. Only after you edited did the ping ping
 
1:46 AM
@NathanMerrill quick edit your first one
 
@NathanMerrill At least it was on the page. :P
@Doorknob I edited it.
 
I didn't edit my ping
 
oh
 
Messages never change automatically.
 
1:46 AM
their content caches permanently
 
Of course they do!
 
which is why you can permalink old oneboxes
 
Nitpick: A message with a oneboxed image can change if the image changes on the site the image is hosted on
 
oh, really? huh, TIL
 
@Doorknob brb, making all my chat messages images
 
1:48 AM
No idea how that's going to work.
 
@Downgoat make them wikipedia articles instead
and then edit the articles
 
@Maltysen oh yeah, duh, of course!
 
Goodnight
 
That could be an interesting form of security.
 
@Maltysen [Citation Needed]
 
1:49 AM
You see this image? Memorized it? Good, cuz now it's different.
 
user image
2
:28449573
 
Do data RUISwork as inages?
 
@Quill Clicked for dog image (and caption). Landed on an hour long talk. Closed tab :(
 
ok, back to the previous conversation: You guys are generally ok with off topic chatter, but not pointless stuff. Is there really anything we could do about the pointless stuff?
 
1:51 AM
^^
 
I mean, its frequent, but its not ongoing, so its hard to migrate to a different room
 
13 mins ago, by Downgoat
so does all this mean there should be a separate room for general chatter?
 
@NathanMerrill There are a lot of things you can do if you're willing to drive away more people than not doing something would.
 
@Downgoat but nobody wants to participate in a room full of goat images and meme faces
4
 
Move carets, ಠ_ಠ faces and pointless messages to the trash
 
1:52 AM
@NathanMerrill ಠ_ಠ
 
(assuming we're still allowing off topic stuff here)
 
@Quill you can golf that message to: "delete the 19th byte" :P
 
@Quill ಠ_ಠ
 
^
 
How about Xi? zigh, sigh
 
1:53 AM
@Quill I support this
 
@HelkaHomba I'd pronounce it: "ks ee"
 
@HelkaHomba zigh
 
The reason I like this room is because there's usually a fair mix of on/off topic, and I can get it all here in one tab. I hate having multiple chats open.
9
 
Depends on context, but as the Greek letter then "sigh"
 
@HelkaHomba I've always pronounced it Chi
 
1:55 AM
^^^
 
@Downgoat yes please
 
@Geobits we're differentiating between pointless and off topic here. Do you like the pointless chatter as well?
 
Whoever voted ಠ_ಠ, is that a yes or a no?
 
1:56 AM
What defines pointless? How would we know what is and isn't pointless?
 
@NathanMerrill Sometimes. I don't have a problem with it until it gets to be 20-30 pointless ones in a row. It's not very hard to skim past it.
 
@Downgoat That would be a no.
 
^^
 
pointless is something like:

^v<>\/—_|#

Mar 19 at 1:10, 1 minute total – 12 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Mar 19 at 3:12 by Downgoat

 
Also, as Conor said, "pointless" is clearly subjective.
 
1:57 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ a message that is not part of a conversation
meme faces, gifs
 
The only real problem I have with pointless chatter is that it messes up Marky's brain >_>
 
@NathanMerrill Then what on earth would define the beginning of the conversation?
 
as Geobits said, I enjoy them, but start getting annoyed when they fill up three entire pages
 
@NathanMerrill so how do I change conversations? sometimes i want to introduce a new topic
 
Hey guys, who here likes the appropriate variety of peanut butter?
 
1:58 AM
@epicTCK Just bring it up.
 
@Geobits That's a pointless message and should be deleted. :P
 
Don't vomit, though.
 
fair point, my definition isn't complete
 
Wow, I walk away to cut a mango and I come back and I have to click to load to my last message. Such activity.
 
@El'endiaStarman And if nobody responds within X minutes, then it isn't a "part of a conversation" and should be deleted? It's too subjective to be rationally defined.
 
1:59 AM
@AlexA. Mangoes are the best
 
@AlexA. Next time don't cut the mango. Eat it like it's intended, in big toothy bites.
 

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