The Nineteenth Byte

Geobits

07:00

Unless you somehow "watched" a and updated it once, then just fetched the results later.

El'endia Starman

@Mego -> is already being used for function chains.

b :> 3*a?

Anonymous

Sure

El'endia Starman

Bonus: smiley.

Anonymous

But it should point towards the target

Anonymous

So b <: 3*a

Geobits

07:01

How is this link being accomplished...?

El'endia Starman

I generally worry about implementation details later.

But it'd work such that any time you need the value of b, it is calculated from a, or it's updated when a changes.

somebody

@El'endiaStarman is it written in python?

Anonymous

It's essentially a property

El'endia Starman

@somebody Yes.

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman The first case sounds no different than a regular function :/

Anonymous

07:03

So in JS-ish: b.get = function(){ return a*3; }

somebody

idk, but you could always treat all objects as functions

El'endia Starman

@Geobits The difference is ease. No bookkeeping work for the programmer needed.

Anonymous

Or more like Python, b.__call__ = lambda self: a*3

Geobits

I don't see that. I just see a difference in syntax tbh.

El'endia Starman

That'd be one way to do it, yeah.

somebody

07:03

@Mego foo = class {get b{return a*3;}}

Anonymous

Actually I can write up an example impl real quick

Anonymous

Ack I'm not sure I know how to do it in Python because pointers would be the easiest way

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Possibly a good thing. And besides, aren't differences between programming languages of the same kind just "differences in syntax"?

Geobits

I'm just saying it doesn't sound different than what I said before: b=f(3*a)

As in b is a pointer to the function.

El'endia Starman

Yes. What I'm proposing is that b behaves like an int everywhere.

Geobits

07:06

Yea, you make f() return the int. That's what I meant.

So you could do d=c+b etc

Alex A.

emuspin.com

El'endia Starman

d=c+b would treat b like a function in that way.

feersum

Mathematica has a := operator which seems similar to this.

Katenkyo

Hi everyone!

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. Wow, dat traffic graph.

Katenkyo

07:09

@Mego I don't get what have to be done in your holier number challenge... What do you mean when you say " output the Holier Number whose 0-index is n"?

orlp

@El'endiaStarman what you have here isn't actually a link of some sort

Geobits

@AlexA. Ya know, I knew there was no good reason to click that, but...

orlp

@El'endiaStarman it's a closure with automatic calling

a = 3

b = lambda: a*5

Alex A.

Online Windows XP emulator

orlp

then whenever b is used b() is substituted

somebody

07:11

@AlexA. *simulator

Alex A.

*emulator

Anonymous

@Katenkyo 0-index means index, starting at 0

feersum

Seems sort of the opposite of a closure... it does not remember the value from when it was created

orlp

>>> a = 3
>>> b = lambda: a*5
>>> b()
15
>>> a = 5
>>> b()
25

Anonymous

So n=0 would be the first value in the sequence

Geobits

07:12

Helka? Is that you? Hello!

Helka Homba

Hi

orlp

more socks!

\o/

oh

Katenkyo

@Mego oh... so it's the (n-1)th element of the sequence, thanks.

orlp

not a sock, a name change

Geobits

Not a sock

So many in-challenge Calvin references to change :o

orlp

07:13

@ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ

El'endia Starman

@orlp I called it a "link" not for any technical reasons. Just calling to mind the concept of a link between two objects (not in the programming sense) such that when one object changes, so does the other.

Helka Homba

@Geobits Nah, I don't like overwriting history

El'endia Starman

> I used to be "Calvin's Hobbies":

But that changed the day Programming Puzzles & Code Golf graduated. So long Calvin.

orlp

@El'endiaStarman a link is bidirectional in my book

Geobits

Oh, so CH was your training name? :P

El'endia Starman

07:15

@orlp I could implement that too. b <:> 3*a or something.

orlp

@El'endiaStarman you can't

Anonymous

@Katenkyo Yep

orlp

it's magical and unsatisfiable

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba You're... you're not you anymore. D:

Anonymous

Man why is everybody changing their names

Anonymous

07:15

I know we're graduating but we don't have to change this much

El'endia Starman

Not me. I'm staying the same. Forever.

Alex A.

I guess I'd better change my name and avatar

Anonymous

NO

Geobits

This is going to take some getting used to. So much cheese movement.

Anonymous

Birds must be consistent!

orlp

07:16

who else changed names

somebody

i don't want to change my name

Aqua Tart

lirtosiast

Alex A.

@orlp Lynn and lirtosiast

Anonymous

Thomas, Mauris, Calvin, quartata so far that I can think of

El'endia Starman

@orlp Example where it would fail?

Geobits

My name isn't changing. My avatar might when we get a design... maybe.

Helka Homba

07:16

@AlexA. :( I know, but I've been planning on retiring Calvin for a while

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba Why so?

orlp

@El'endiaStarman b <:> 0*a

Anonymous

My avatar only changes for holidays

orlp

b = 5

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba You're literally in media coverage as Calvin's Hobbies.

orlp

07:17

can someone give me a full list of name changes

Anonymous

And even then it's just more penguins

Anonymous

It's penguins all the way down for me

somebody

@orlp Calvin's Hobbies -> Helka Homba, Thomas Kwa -> lirtosiast, quartata -> Aqua Tart, Mauris -> Lynn

Katenkyo

I agree with Mego, nickname changes are disturbing ^^'

El'endia Starman

@orlp Solvable by making such a bi-directional link work only when the function has a defined inverse and only when the inverse exists at that value.

Alex A.

07:18

@somebody Yes

Anonymous

C++ example that I spent too much time on

orlp

@El'endiaStarman that's not achievable for any reasonable definition of achievable

Helka Homba

@AlexA. Idk, just more original. (And if I start making mc vids again once 1.9 comes out my profiles across sites are more continuous.)

El'endia Starman

@orlp Why not? For functions not defined in Pytek originally, require the end user to define the inverse.

And if one doesn't exist, oh well, that feature isn't usable.

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba RIP Calvin's Hobbies. u_u

somebody

07:21

TIL @HelkaHomba 's avatar is a minecraft skin

Geobits

Well, it is good to have a name that isn't copyrighted/trademarked if you plan on ever monetizing anything ;)

orlp

@Mego super overcomplicated

coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/edb27e27701a05d5

int a = 5;
auto b = [&]() { return 3*a; };

Anonymous

@orlp Doesn't work when you leave that scope

Anonymous

(I think)

orlp

@Mego neither does yours

Anonymous

07:22

(It's been a long time since I did C++)

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba You should change Chat Relay's avatar.

orlp

you have a pointer to a local variable

Anonymous

No, I have a pointer to a dynamically-allocated variable

orlp

oh no you don't

but that's a moot point

I could make a a pointer to some object as well

feersum

If the original variable is out of scope, there's no reason to expect good things to happen.

Alex A.

07:24

I expect rainbows and puppies once things go out of scope.

Anonymous

There, updated it to show that scope works

orlp

coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/11a69e96f690747a

now mine also can go out of scope

if you share the variable

Geobits

This all still sounds quite dodgy imo >_>

Alex A.

make_shared? What is this, Communist Russia?

orlp

@AlexA. no, that'd be own_means_of_production

Anonymous

07:26

Smart pointers

Anonymous

I need to learn all the C++11 stuff at some point

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Ha, sure, I don't mind you saying so. There's no guarantee that it'll get implemented. I do want to explore all sorts of ideas that could be really helpful for reducing the programmer's work.

Alex A.

@orlp Is that in the standard library?

Anonymous

I can't follow replies and I'm an idiot

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman Sure,sure. I'm all for experimentation. I'd be interested to see it if/when you get it working the way you want.

Alex A.

07:28

I can't believe Calvin is gone. ;_;

9

El'endia Starman

I think I identified the song that was going through my head earlier! It's Blackout in the album Battlecry by Two Steps from Hell. I'm listening to it right now. :P

somebody

@El'endiaStarman but how often will programmers use it?

El'endia Starman

@somebody Considering that I want to use it for actual stuff...

somebody

linking variables?

El'endia Starman

[shrug] Might be useful.

Geobits

07:29

Well since @HelkaHomba is a thing now, I guess we should do right by it and start posting anagrams. How about Elk mob? Haha! to start?

2

somebody

downstars Geobits

Anonymous

I'm sad about the usernames changing

Geobits

~~anti~~ downstars

Alex A.

I'd say let's not criticize @El'endia's beautiful language until it's implemented. Then we can really tear into it. >:D

Anonymous

@Downgoat userscript feature-request make Calvin's name come back

somebody

07:30

@Mego hold on

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. I'm.....not sure what to feel. Flattered and insulted. :P

Anonymous

@AlexA. Yep, just like you guys did with Seriously :P

zyabin101

Hello

Helka Homba

@AlexA. Part of retiring "Calvin's Hobbies" is also to respect Bill Watterson's dislike of any form of merchandising past the strips themselves. Seems silly for an SE account I know, but not for an associated Youtube account that runs monetized ads.

somebody

@AlexA. not criticizing, just not sure if it's worth the effort

orlp

07:30

@zyabin101 no

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman That seems like the appropriate response :D

El'endia Starman

@somebody Since when was anything we PPCG'ers did ever worth the effort? :P

orlp

btw guys

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman Kidding of course. I'm really excited to see where you go with it with some examples, use cases, etc. I think it has a lot of potential.

orlp

meta post was edited

graduation date is november 1st

Geobits

07:31

I knew it!

Katenkyo

@Mego an other question on your holier number: why does 4which have an holier value of 0 is in the sequence and is after 44 which have an holier value of 1...

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. :D

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba You have ads on your videos? Lel I have an adblocker. :I

2

somebody

@El'endiaStarman the userscript/Jelly/OEIS sequences aren't worth the effort?

orlp

guys

we must have the smallest community ad

El'endia Starman

07:32

@somebody In all seriousness, implementing Minkolang taught me a good deal of how programming languages work, and I expect Pytek will teach me a LOT.

Alex A.

@somebody It's not fair to say that Jelly is worth the effort and Pytek isn't.

somebody

i know

just the linking

Anonymous

@Katenkyo 44 has an enhanced holarity of (1 + 0 - 1) + (1 + (1 + 0 - 1) - 1) = 0

somebody

not very worth it if user needs to enter inverse

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman I'd go with PYthon Magic Proprietary Link Syntax (pympls)

somebody

07:34

gonna almost certainly be harder than implementing a differ if inverses automatic

orlp

what is this holy stuff you guys are talkin 'bout

@Geobits THIEF

THIEF

Anonymous

Ack I labeled the list wrong

Anonymous

I messed up

orlp

RAAAAAAAH THIEVES EVERYWHERE

El'endia Starman

Oh, I remember now why I thought linking was a good idea. With the stuff I've done with D3.js (like Spacewar!), the graphics stuff always had to be updated "manually", but when I was just getting started with D3.js, I thought the updating was automatic and magical.

Geobits

07:34

@orlp Thief? Ooooh I see. Once you make an acronym, nobody else can do different ones. Got it :P

Sp3000

@Geobits Too many H's :/

orlp

@El'endiaStarman but what you really have is just a lambda function

Sp3000

I have one for another recent name change though: soil artist

Helka Homba

@AlexA. To what?

El'endia Starman

@orlp Yeah, but no bookkeeping!

Geobits

07:35

@Sp3000 Nice :D

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba Anything that isn't exactly the same as your current one

Anonymous

Ahh crap Holier Numbers has a serious problem

orlp

what are holier numbers

help

i need an adult

Helka Homba

@Mego Is that a pun or..?

Alex A.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Anonymous

07:36

All holy numbers comprised of singly-holy digits have an enhanced holarity of 0

somebody

@El'endiaStarman but D3 isn't about math/inverse functions

Helka Homba

Wait sorry, that's Seriously

El'endia Starman

@somebody I didn't say it was.

Katenkyo

@Mego Oh, right, my bad... So, what's the rule for sorting all these 0-value number?

orlp

are you guys just trolling me right now

or what

somebody

07:37

@El'endiaStarman but you're saying you want tow-way linking for b=a*3 right?

Anonymous

@Katenkyo The rule is I'm gonna fix the challenge real quick

El'endia Starman

@somebody I don't have to implement that.

Just might be useful.

And only upon explicit request of the user.

Geobits

@orlp The inverse of 666 is one of them.

Katenkyo

@Mego Ok, I'm waiting for the holier challenge to pop again :)

Alex A.

@Geobits -667?

Quill

07:38

yay. swag

somebody

@orlp codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/74033/the-holier-number

Geobits

@AlexA. Well I meant 1/666, but that works, too.

Anonymous

@Quill implying there is non-shoddy PHP

Geobits

I wonder what trinket we'll get in place of the rubber duck.

Sp3000

Damnit Helka's Hobbies, this HHLKMB hurts

somebody

07:39

@El'endiaStarman but something like adding r before variable to pass by reference may be useful

Alex A.

@Geobits A swift kick in the StackEggs

Helka Homba

@Sp3000 Huh?

Alex A.

lel Helka's Hombies

Sp3000

Too many hard-to-use consonants

El'endia Starman

Calvin Homba

Geobits

07:40

@AlexA. StackEggs would make a nicely backhanded gift.

Alex A.

overhanded

orlp

how do I achieve world domination in the fewest amount of bytes possible?

zyabin101

@Geobits Anyway, it should not be anything related to golf.

Geobits

Hopefully the stickers have alex-is-wrong in small print at the bottom.

Alex A.

@zyabin101 Branded golf tees :D

zyabin101

07:42

@Geobits Nope.

Geobits

@zyabin101 o....k....

Sp3000

@orlp TakeWorldHostage, 0 bytes

orlp

@Sp3000 noncompeting

zyabin101

@AlexA. Nope.

orlp

language invented after challenge

Alex A.

07:43

El'endia Starman

@zyabin101 You know they're joking, right?

@AlexA. ...well, that came back to bite me in the butt.

zyabin101

@El'endiaStarman I know. :)

El'endia Starman

Okay, just checking. :)

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman >:U

Geobits

You cannot fight the meme, no matter how many fake screenshots you post :P

Alex A.

07:45

It's a real screenshot...

Geobits

I don't see how you can prove that to my satisfaction ;)

Anonymous

There, fixed it

Thijs ter Haar

@Dennis Is a quine still a true quine if you use reflection not to read the source, but to write in it? Because the only reason I used g in my fish answer is because I couldn't get the program to work with 2 quotation marks (And I needed 2 if I wanted 2 different true quine pieces of code)

Alex A.

2 hours ago, by El'endia Starman

Err, is-alex-wrong. No, wrong-alex-is. Hmm. alex-wrong-is. Sheesh. is-wrong-alex.

Geobits

Ah. So not fake, but not truthy either.

Anonymous

07:46

4

Q: The Holier Numbers

As we learned from The Holy Numbers, there are 5 holy digits (0, 4, 6, 8, 9), and positive integers consisting solely of those digits are holy. Additionally, the holiness of a number is the sum of the holes in the number (+2 for every 0 or 8, and +1 otherwise). Now, there is an additional proper...

Alex A.

I'd call it "carefully selected."

orlp

@Mego you up for a challenge?

Anonymous

@orlp Define challenge

Helka Homba

@Geobits Correct. The two 29k rep users Calvin and Helka can both independently confirm that, in fact, alex-is-wrong.

Katenkyo

@Mego Your sequence still puts 4,6,9 after 44,46,49 :)

orlp

07:50

@Mego your answer is almost certainly the right approach

@Mego but it can be done in O(n) instead of O(n log n)

Anonymous

@Katenkyo Yes, re-read the challenge definition. It's different in an important way.

El'endia Starman

> the great language Python

+1

Anonymous

Actually wait I'm just a doofus

Geobits

@HelkaHomba It's official. You can't argue with 58k+ rep about these things.

El'endia Starman

(I expect @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ will disapprove though. ^^^^ :P)

Helka Homba

07:52

Nope

(Sorry Alex <3)

Katenkyo

@Mego I saw that, but you don't really sort by numeric value in case of tie

orlp

@Mego you know why?

Anonymous

It should be... Why is Python not stable sorting?

Anonymous

@orlp Sure

Quill

@Geobits probably a golf ball

orlp

07:53

getting the largest k values out of an array can be done in O(n)

sort(l)[:k] is O(n log n)

Geobits

@Quill I hope not :(

Katenkyo

@Mego the problem is here:`if n < 10:
return 2 if n in [0, 8] else 1`

zyabin101

@Quill Surely not :)

Katenkyo

it should be return 1 if n in [0,8] else 0

Anonymous

Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind for a moment

Katenkyo

07:55

@Mego No problem, it bugged me too ^^

Anonymous

@orlp I think I see. I'll try to implement it real quick

Fatalize

I don't know why people are freaking out about graduation. I mean, I only waited about half a year for it to happen, what's the big deal? :p

El'endia Starman

ಠ_ಠ

Anonymous

@orlp I'm not convinced it'll be linear overall. Because the number of adjustments needed (k) is linearly correlated with n, and getting the k largest elements from a length n array is O(n log(k)), it won't be truly linear.

Geobits

There are many users that are still awaiting actual graduation. Like from school.

Anonymous

08:01

It'll certainly be more optimal than my current approach, but not linear

orlp

@Mego nope

getting the k largest elements from a length n array is O(n)

regardless of k

Geobits

In order?

orlp

nope

that's the crux

Geobits

Oh, ok then

orlp

you get the k largest elements in unspecified order

El'endia Starman

08:03

Are we assuming that popping elements is O(1)?

orlp

@El'endiaStarman this is assuming a random access array

and it's not popping them

it works by partitioning the array in-place

Median of medians

In computer science, the median of medians algorithm is a selection algorithm based on the quickselect algorithm, and is optimal, having worst-case linear time complexity for selecting the kth largest element. The algorithm finds an approximate median in linear time – this is the key step – which is then used as a pivot in quickselect. In other words, it uses an (asymptotically) optimal approximate median-selection algorithm to build an (asymptotically) optimal general selection algorithm. The approximate median-selection algorithm can also be used as a pivot strategy in quicksort, yielding an...

Helka Homba

Wonder of wonders, median of medians!

El'endia Starman

huh, cool

Anonymous

@orlp That's for getting the kth largest element, not the kth largest elements

orlp

@Mego but it partitions

Anonymous

08:07

That O(n) algo would need to be used k times, resulting in O(nk)

orlp

such that all elements smaller than the kth element are to the left of it

Anonymous

...oh

orlp

@Mego your algorithm doesn't work though

try [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 100000000] as input

Anonymous

Ah, that would be that counterexample I had been looking for

orlp

the problem is a lot harder than it might seem at first :)

I'm kinda sad it hasn't attracted more attention

Anonymous

08:17

I fixed it so that it properly handles cases where values should be decremented

orlp

@Mego broken again

same counterexample

[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 32766] is not valid output

Anonymous

Oh crap

feersum

I'm debugging a program and keep getting spammed with messages about non-existent segfaults.

orlp

@feersum instead

try this challenge:

7

Q: Model a probability table using 15-bit fixed probabilities

A histogram is an array of integers that counts the number of times a symbol occurs. For example, for the string "aaabbbabbdebabbbebebdbaaabbabaaaaeebeaabaaba" a histogram is a: 18, b: 18, c: 0, d: 2, e: 6, or [18, 18, 0, 2, 6] in short. If we were to pick a random character out of this string, ...

code-challenge binary probability-theory

feersum

I still couldn't figure out why that challenge is not easy.. maybe it could be "fun" to write a quick wrong answer and find out which part I failed to read.

orlp

08:25

@feersum go ahead

it's actually surprisingly difficult

(I still don't have an algorithm in mind that's fast and optimal)

Anonymous

@orlp Fixed it for n log n

Katenkyo

hum, looks like my submission for holier numbers will be looooong

feersum

Mego's approach is the obvious one which seems like it would be fast and optimal as long as there are no bugs

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

You're Reputation is not in base 10! This was prompted yesterday by having reached a rep on aviation.SE of exactly 11.111, that I immediately got me to say "hey, that's 31 in binary!" So here's a code-golf challenge: accept a series of integer numbers: the list of reputations you have across ...

orlp

@feersum but it's not optimal

@Mego [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 100000000, 100000000]

you output [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 16374, 16383]

Anonymous

08:43

Yeah it's far from optimal (for overshoots)

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