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22:00
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Adios, y'all
Peace out @TimmyD
1,616 MD5s checked -.-
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yeah that'll be like, slower than Java is long
2
@Doorknob I'm working on Python, though it won't be much faster.
I'm too lazy to learn Java
:P
I can probably do 2k MD5s on my crummy laptop in seconds...
22:02
If you're trying to find a solution for the MD5 quine, it's of no use; the question has been closed as a duplicate.
@Doorknob Which language?
@AlexA. I know, I just saw ;-;
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ There's a 37% chance that MD5 doesn't even have a fixed point.
I'm still going to do it because now I'm interested.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ FORTRAN 77, obviously.
22:02
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ anything
what
2
Even a hacky Bash script...
@Dennis applauds
@Doorknob Oic. I'm not actually in the window, so it's obviously slower.
@Dennis ಠ_ಠ
I'm in the car, but I'm gonna grab my laptop to do some benchmarking. :P
@Doorknob Are you golf driving?
Driving under the influence of PPCG?
22:04
@Doorknob Whilst in the window. I got 2.2K in 5 seconds
its meh
Driving period would be illegal for me... :P
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ For a large enough set X and a random function f : X -> X, the probability that f has a fixed point is roughly 1 - e^-1.
I'm sure I can find a citation somewhere.
@Dennis I get the math lingo, but I don't know what MD5 is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Dennis full proof pls
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ A pseudo-random mapping of strings of length < 2^64 to non-negative integers < 2^128.
22:08
@Dennis Oh. Cool!
100
A: Is there an MD5 Fixed Point where md5(x) == x?

Adam RosenfieldSince an MD5 sum is 128 bits long, any fixed point would necessarily also have to be 128 bits long. Assuming that the MD5 sum of any string is uniformly distributed over all possible sums, then the probability that any given 128-bit string is a fixed point is 1/2^128. Thus, the probability that...

Found it.
@NathanMerrill late reply, but I'd liekly be game
ping me when it's up though
@Dennis That's nuts. :O Thanks for the link!
@overactor would you mind looking over the spec?
@ev3commander I love how that's longer than just the regular Python quine with the MD5 part added to it
22:11
1
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Nathan MerrillCode Bots 4 sheesh, is this really the 4th? For all you oldcomers, the core challenge is the same, but we are using Java instead of a custom language The goal of CodeBots is to make your bot as viral as possible. Each bot carries a Flag, and you need to make sure that your Flag is everywhere....

@NathanMerrill what about it? do you want feedback?
yeah, problems you see
ideas
I'm still in the fleshing-out period
llama@llama:~$ h=a; time bash -c 'for (( i=0; i<10000; ++i)); do h=$(openssl dgst -md5 <(echo $h) | awk "{print \$2}"); done'
bash -c   2.93s user 1.88s system 11% cpu 43.436 total
y so slow D:
Probably because it's Bash...
(・⊝・) <-- alex (it's a bird)
2
@NathanMerrill on it
22:14
my emote keyboard
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Needs more
@Doorknob Should have used FORTRAN 77.
I'm working on it. Any suggestions? (Max 4 chars in a key)
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Two keys for lenny face
Can't go wrong
Oh shoot forgot about that
22:16
my "copy tool"
@Doorknob Ooh, what's rickroll?
;-; needs three keys
@Doorknob ಠ_ಠ at "rickroll"
Does it copy-pasta a rickroll video, or is it something else?
22:17
@Doorknob mkay
@Doorknob I actually like this song o^o
( ͡° ͜
ʖ ͡°)
Huh
I don't understand what the o^o aims to convey
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ...
@NathanMerrill I assume reflection will be forbidden :)
@AlexA. o are eyes, ^ is an upturned mouth
22:18
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Can't have it on multiple lines
Use fixed font
@overactor of course
@quartata Just too lazy
Oh wait "Four UTF-16 codepoints"
22:19
it's missing the multiple flags thing of course
I'm not sure if that's a problem
what do you mean?
meaning a bot containing multiple flags?
not possible
there's only 1 flag function
exactly
is updateData(Bot) done through an interface?
virtually everything will be an interface
I'm also disallowing member variables
any stored data must be stored in objects I will give them
okay
which will be final I suppose?
oh, they won't actually have access to the objects, just accessor functions
refresh the post
I added the two "objects" I'm giving them
22:23
You should limit what can be sent through messages
Any more emote suggestions? @AlexA. @quartata
@overactor I agree. Right now, I'm allowing Addresses or a single integer
I may add more options later
the addresses are cool
integer seems too big still
well, a person can "identify" themselves with a unique integer
22:25
the address book is cool
but people can listen for that integer, and just replicate it
@NathanMerrill that's true
Maybe you should provide each bot with some randomly generated static ints
that's not a bad idea
but it'll be bot-specific, not bot-type specific
Damn, son. I got a full 9 votes on a comment in 40 minutes. O.O
This is a cheating quine, as it reads its source code off the disk. — FlagAsSpam 35 mins ago
Hmm, I'd say bot-type
22:29
I wonder if my name is intimidating to new users sometimes...
why would you go for bot specific?
@FlagAsSpam Full votes? As opposed to half-votes?
And then I chuckle and be like, "Of course it is." >.<
to limit identification of other bots
@Doorknob "a full 9 votes" means "an entire (set) of 9 votes". Basically, surprised that I got that many votes.
22:30
hmmm
@FlagAsSpam I know, I'm being an @Alex
(trolling in chat)
perhaps I could include "Static data"
@Doorknob ಠ_ಠ
such as "Bot type"
bah, I don't like that
@AlexA. ಠ╭╮ಠ <-- This is now my favorite variation.
22:31
me neither
here's the thing. Say bot 1 overwrites a function of bot 2
Surely of interest to this group: Advent of Code, an advent calendar for programming challenges.
my idea means that bot 1 has access to everything bot 2 did
the thing is, you could pick a random number by hand and spam that one to identify your other bots
@NathanMerrill hmm
@Doorknob ಠ╭╮ಠ
22:32
which makes it possible for bot 1 to test for "different type" by comparing variables
is your "Randomly initialized variable" different than mine?
that one could be private
or just not in the interface you use to modify bots
@overactor They could use reflection though
right, but what I mean is that the function being written could test for the different variable
@quartata not allowed :P
@PaulD.Waite All this time I've been saying "Pee Aytch Pee" but now I think I have to start saying "Ffffp". — Todd Wilcox 9 hours ago
@AlexA. I am glad I introduced it.
:D
22:34
@NathanMerrill mkay
functions of the same type from different bots will have access to the same variables
however,
that doesn't mean they'll have access to both variables
...hmm
@NathanMerrill how do you plan on implementing that anyway?
they write a class with 8 different functions
no member variables allowed
executing one function in the context of another object
then I change the underlying objects every time they have access to them
22:37
Are you going to do that with reflection or are the functions in anonymous classes?
no, the abstract class they inherit will contain accessor functions
oooh, just came up with a really good strategy
bots that identify each other as the same type
Ah, and those use objects that the controller is managing?
attack each other, writing over each others functions to keep them pure
@overactor right
> Type as you normally would
22:40
@quartata What should I say? :/
'Twas a joke.
But I find it amusing that it says "Type as you normally would" and you filled the box with spicy memes
Then again, maybe that's how you normally type
It seems like it would make programming hard.
Hello world! How was your day today! => _/¯ຶД༎ຶД༎°) (ツ)°)(╯°□ຶД༎_/¯ ヾ(_°)(ツ)  ͜ʖ (ツ)  ┻━┻°)( ͡°(╯°□ _/¯¯\\_ ┻━┻ °)╯︵°)_/¯¯\\_ ┻━┻
@quartata I have a new idea for a challenge :P
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ dupe of the "translate your program" challenge
22:42
You could still give them randomly generated static int variables
@quartata Darn. >:3
Then you can do MyBotClass.int1
58
Q: Translate your English source code into a foreign language

CJ DennisI have noticed that there are a disproportionate number of computer languages based on English. I propose to fix this by translating existing computer languages into foreign languages! Pick a computer language that uses English keywords/functions Pick any natural* language other than English Wr...

Why yes I do have ESP how did you know
But can't test for it on other bots obviously
here's what I'm thinking
I'm going to include a "vars" section
22:42
@NathanMerrill You're thinking "here's what I'm thinking"?
Interesting.
A brain quine.
@flawr ಠ_ಠ
bots of the same type will start with a variable with the same contents
@quartata No, he's thinking "here's"
@NathanMerrill okay
so an overwritten function can access that variable just as well
however
22:43
but randomized?
yes, randomized
the only way around it is
when you take over, writing another variable with a different name, but the value is value of the old bot's variable
then you can compare the two variables in your function
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Thomas KwaCount the Connect Four Boards code-golf (or should this be fastest-code)? Connect Four is a two-player game on a rectangular board. The board is m spaces wide and n spaces tall, and players alternate placing pieces in columns. A placed piece always fills the lowest empty space in a column, and ...

@NewSandboxedPosts Can you force a win in Connect Four?
So Static_ID = 1 on Bot 1, and Static_ID = 2 on Bot 2. Then Bot 1 attacks Bot 2, and writes a new variable Old_Static_ID = 1. Then the overwritten function checks to see if Old_Static_ID == Static_ID
I don't remember if it's been solved to that degree yet
Not related to the challenge but it just reminded me that Connect Four was solved or something
22:46
@quartata Yes, 7x6 Connect Four is a first-player win.
@ThomasKwa Gotcha.
It's been strongly (from every position) solved too
@ThomasKwa But weakly solved for other board sizes right?
I suppose you could call it that, although I'm not sure that this challenge quite rises to the level of a Federal RFP as far as formality is concerned. — Ralph Marshall Jun 1 at 17:21
22:48
So the vars are in a map?
It's actually pretty computationally easy to make a Connect Four perfect player.
@quartata Anyway, any feedback?
@overactor yeah
@flawr Much better.
22:52
Can you not just have five functions getVar0() through getVar4() and allow attackers to set but not read those?
and you can read but not set your own
I've been there where the first video takes place this summer.
But no plane crashed then.
@overactor that seems feasible, but a bit odd
@ThomasKwa Lemme see
@overactor writing to a log, however can be used as a sudo variable
It gives you a way to signal to your allies
22:55
unless I do the same thing to the log
but other bots can't be hardcoded against you
I would ay you can't write to logs directly
I do think it would probably make a fairly interesting @ThomasKwa
Better than ?
Yeah. If I'm understanding it right, most of the answers will probably just be slightly clever brute-forces in code golf.
A would motivate people to really figure out an interesting way to approach it
22:58
Well, I have two options: reduce the time limit to something like 0.01 ms per board
@overactor actually, I think I'm ok with them reading and writing to the log
If you don't have a sufficiently fast computer on which to try the submissions on I would not recommend it though
because the "choosing a function to overwrite" is in a different function than "read data"
My machine is of medium speed
22:58
also, you can't have a malicious version of a function
A mid-tier iMac from 2013
It only has 8 GB memory though.
@ThomasKwa Mm.
you could also do some sort of combination of fastest-code and code-golf to avoid things like lookup tables or such
Do we have a server like the KoTH one?
22:59
when you can write to the log directly, you can leave extremely precise messages though
@KevinW. Hmm, like size * log_2(runtime for some test case)?
Or were you thinking of giving speed more weight?
what if variables/log can't be written or read on attack?
oooh, no
you can read anything you want on attack
but modification is limited to the bot itself
bbl restarting my computer for emote keyboard installation
if you wanted to, say, clear the entire log or address book, or anything else, you would have to copy over a function to do that
23:03
I'm worried this would leave too much freedom
so, there would be limited amounts of possible "testing if this is my bot"
yeah, why?
say I include a bot that randomly attacks, and writes functions that clears logs
suddenly testing your log against theirs isn't valid
every single function on my bot could check if it's being run on itself and destroy the bot if it isn't
you can't destroy yourself XP
how are you going to test if it is being run on itself?
there's no reliable way to test whether you are friendly or not
it might not always work
but it's extremely nuclear
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ sucks
I'm sorry, I've never seen a good one with proper rules.
23:08
it similar to the last contest, where people would test if flag on line 1 was equal to flag on line 2
It's a novel concept, but it just doesn't work out.
Unary or Lenguage always wins.
But this time, every function can instantly destroy a bot, no?
@quartata I know XD
ツ゚は、アイヌ語や中国語の表記において用いられた仮名の一つであり、ツに半濁点と同形の点を付けた文字である。アイヌ語では音節/tu/ を表し、現代仮名遣いの「トゥ」に当たる。また平仮名の「つ゜」はラテン語の表記に用いられた例がある。 == ツ゚に関わる諸事項 == 江戸時代の唐音資料には、半濁点と同形の点を仮名に付して中国語の発音を表現したものがあり、17世紀後半の資料では中国語の表記に「ツ゜」を用いたものがある。また上原熊次郎が著した『蝦夷方言藻汐草』のように、アイヌ語の表記に用いられた例もある。 文字コードでは、JIS 規格の JIS X 0213 の文字集合には「ツ゚」の文字が 1 文字として単独の位置を与えられているが、Unicode では単独の位置がなく、半濁点との合字で表現する必要がある。 平仮名の「つ゚(つ゜)」はJIS X 0213には含まれないが、Unicodeでは上記の片仮名と同様に合字を利用する方法で表すことができる。キリシタン資料において、ラテン語の音節/tu/や/du/を「つ゜」と表記した例が確認されている。 == 参考文献 == 沼本克明「半濁音符史上に於ける唐音資料の位置」『国語学』162集、1990年。 == 関連項目 == セ゚ ト゚...
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I don't know what that means so I'll just post this
My response to everything
23:14
<s>people</s> videos these days
@SuperJedi224 That's real music this isn't about real music this is about dumb music
must keep up the theme
what have I done
@ev3commander The chat markdown syntax for strikethrough is three dashes on either side, e.g. ---deleted---.
@overactor no, functions can't destroy bots
they can do things detrimental to bots
but destroying a bot isn't possible
@AlexA. The fail strikethrough is funnier
23:19
hmm
I suppose they can't override other functions
yeah, to overwrite multiple functions, you have to successfully attack several times
they can completely modify logs and vars though
you can only completely modify logs and vars if you are a function
meaning that step 6 can't modify the opponent's variables
public static void hellooooo(){int hellooooo = 12388}
can a bot attack itself?
23:23
no
oh, I forgot!
a function can reset its IP address
though, I haven't figured out how to do that yet
I don't want it to be instantaneous
hmmm
so if there's noone at the address yu're attacking, nothing happens?
yeah
perhaps it's not a good idea
if enough people reset IP, then nobody can communicate
because everybody has bad addresses
What rep level gets you 100 rep everywhere again?
23:31
1K?
not sure
I think I am below it when I placed my bounty
that low?
23:32
Hmm
Suppose I've got that much rep here . What is keeping me from joining a So chat room
Caching?
Unlikely?
RIP weshouldblamedoorknob.tk
23:35
But the regular So site shows over 100 rep
Why would not chat agree?
It's argumentative
Caching
Or that
How long has it been?
How to get it to cache miss
23:36
if its been anything under 10 years, its likely caching
Half a week or so
Oh okay
Oh, then it's not caching
What does it tell you when you try to chat?
I must have more than 20 rep on SO
huh
Umm...
maybe its caching the other way and you suddenly got serial downvoted? ;P
23:38
Maybe it's cashing and you'll get a bunch of money in the mail
@TimmyD That's the second 4-star "Calvin isn't posting 10 challenges/day" message in as many days >_>
@Calvin'sHobbies Take this as a sign. Get to it.
TIL how to change the LaTeX font to Times New Roman. It does not look good.
change it to helvetica B)
Nope
I've grown sick of Helvetica since Apple changed the system font on OS X to Helvetica beginning with 10.10.
@AlexA. So upgrade to El Capitan. The system font is a new font called San Francisco.
23:52
@ChrisJester-Young I just recently upgraded to Yosemite. :P How does the new font look?
I promise you'll be less tired of Helvetica Neue in a jiffy.
@AlexA. It's beautiful.
Based on a quick image search, can confirm. Certainly much nicer than Helvetica. :)
There, so upgrade already. :-D
23:55
Upgrading to Yosemite took 10 hours on my 2011 laptop. ;__;
@AlexA. .oO(Are you offering to buy my 2013 MBP? :-P)
or Air? ^
@ChrisJester-Young .oO(Are you offering to sell me your 2013 MBP? :-P)
My 2011 MPB may be a little older but it still runs like a champ.
@AlexA. What model?
@AlexA. Taking 10 hours to upgrade to Yosemite is "runs like a champ"? :-O
23:57
@ChrisJester-Young Well... In almost all other cases it runs like a champ. :|
@ZachGates Early 2011 MacBook Pro
*HackBook Pro
uh what
@ChrisJester-Young Chrome translated this.
What.

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