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12:00 PM
yes
 
somehow it looks more like you're doing a triforce thing
 
what sort of center is this?
 
incentre
 
oooh
 
12:02 PM
i.e. centre of incircle
 
I didn't see the 3 outermost points
 
It sounds like such a similar algorithm to the chaos method of drawing a sierpinski triangle, and yet that gives straight, precise, clinical results, whereas this approach looks almost organic.
 
@githubphagocyte ha, that was my first association, too ^^
 
These triangles get progressivley narrower each time, rather than being self-similar, right?
 
@githubphagocyte yup
@Martin, are you always using a center and two points of the largest triangle?
 
12:06 PM
Are you using inner triangles too?
Like subdividing a tiling?
 
@overactor no @githubphagocyte yes
 
For some reason I find even funnier now that it's at the top of the star list.
 
how come the center point isn't darker then?
 
@overactor probably for the same reason the corners of the root triangle aren't?
I guess the early corners tend to become the very acute angles of the triangles which are far away from the centres
 
ah I was misinterpreting it
 
12:10 PM
Yes - once you get wide triangles with the outer edges as their bases, they are so short that cutting them in half leaves the new centre not far from where you cut.
 
there are many combinations of centers that would have the very center point as their center, but those are never in teh same sub triangle
 
(and since it isn't cutting in half they become shorter still, so it's exaggerated)
Just noticed you posted more before this one - off to have a look...
 
which depth did you use @MartinBüttner?
 
@overactor 10
@githubphagocyte those were buggy
 
how quickly did generating those images go?
and could you try with smaller 100% opaque dots?
 
12:17 PM
@overactor takes a couple of seconds. and yes I could probably try with smaller points. might do that later.
added the centroid:
 
btw, these pictures are most likely tweetable
I just won't be bothered to port them to C (doing everything in Mathematica right now)
 
could you cram in using three different definitions for each color channel?
 
possibly, although you'd have to find some interesting definitions that work well together.. otherwise the channels wouldn't blend very well
 
@MartinBüttner of course
using definitions alternatingly could also be cool
 
12:23 PM
e.g. phagocytes tablecloth and my random painter didn't look like individually blended channels, but the julia sets did
 
Wikipedia often helps to simplify a problem: "The Encyclopedia of Triangle Centers lists over 3,000 different triangle centres."
 
@overactor yes, I want to add that
(and that was part of my suggestion for the challenge)
@githubphagocyte last time I checked it was 5000 :D
 
@MartinBüttner and a fine suggestion it was
 
@MartinBüttner since they are both such round numbers I'm going to assume that the Wikipedia article I quoted from had a typo rather than being horribly out of date...
I do hope no one has to explain them all in an exam question...
 
12:28 PM
Okay, added cycling through definitions
here are {centroid,incentre} and {incentre,centroid}:
 
cool
 
of, course I can now also do funny stuff like {centroid,centroid,incentre}
 
as for the tweetable art question
 
user image
2
I swear there's a mummy standing just above the centre
 
cycling through 3 different definitions starting with another definition for each color
could be cool
@MartinBüttner and now I'm creeped out
 
12:34 PM
ah yes, that would be nice. and it would probably be sufficiently related, so that the channels don't look too detached
 
and you can still experiment with different definitions ofcourse
how would you get a value per pixel though?
 
@overactor round to the nearest pixel an increment... that's similar to my semi-opaque discs
 
@MartinBüttner with some imagination, the 'mummy' has devil wings
 
oh god, it does
those black (lizard?) heads between the mummies don't look any friendlier either
 
There's also something very erm
rocket-shaped near his
crotch
On the plus side though, he has funny stumpy legs.
 
12:43 PM
@githubphagocyte yay, your "Delete them" answer got another upvote!
I guess, two more, and we can call that a consensus over "Keep them"
(regarding posted sandbox proposals)
 
1:27 PM
hi
 
@COTO DOM manipulation is enough to do eval. Getting restrictions right is so hard that I'm not sure there are any questions yet which manage it.
 
1:43 PM
hi
am I late?
 
You're still posting, so probably not.
 
hi
 
I've added the circumcentre... for regular triangles like equilateral of 45 degree isosceles, you just get something which looks like a diffraction pattern on a square/hex grid... but for irregular triangles it gets weird
 
what's with all the triangle centers?
 
Eric suggested a challenge where you recursively plot triangle centres by one of the 5000 triangle centre definitions... and I didn't want to wait for the challenge to see what the resulting fractals look like...
 
1:55 PM
recursively, as in you subdivide the triangle into three triangles based on the center?
 
@MartinBüttner that's a gaping mouth in the middle there, isn't it?
 
mount?
 
a creepy, all consuming mouth
That was one of my weirder typos today
typoes or typos?
 
tpos
@overactor I see... the mummy was more convincing though
hm, the circumcentre is actually tricky to get right for degenerate triangles
 
2:02 PM
@MartinBüttner it is?
I would have though it'd be rather easy
 
well I'm basically dividing by |b cross a| where b and a are two sides of the triangle.
 
what's the problem your facing?
 
I definitely need to treat that case separately
actually
if the circumcircle needs to go through all three points its infinitely large for degenerate triangles
I think I should just omit those points
 
@MartinBüttner exactly
 
but now I need logic to abort the recursion in these cases
 
2:04 PM
ah, and you can actually get degenerate triangles here
 
any triangle with a 90 degree corner will do the trick for instance
 
okay fixed it
okay, now let's try mixing that with the other two centres
 
try redefining the circumcenter of a degenerate triangle to be the middle of the line segment, or the middle of the three points, or the average of the middles of the three line segments?
that would just turn degenerate triangles into solid lines of dots, I guess :/
 
@Sparr yes, that was my initial idea, but it seems "more wrong", I think?
 
2:12 PM
@MartinBüttner I think it is
the circumcenter of a degenerate triangle is at infinity
and any triangle with exactly one corner at infinity will have it's circumcenter at infinity as well
however
 
okay, circumcentre + centroid is boring, but circumcentre + incentre is amazing. I'll look into combining all three
 
the incenter won't be
 
plus?
as in switching with each recursion?
 
@Sparr yes
 
yes
I can cycle through any list of centre definitions upon successive recursions
 
2:15 PM
@Martin, if you're alternating, you can't throw away infinitely large tringles
@MartinBüttner show up
 
@overactor technically not. practically I will, for now
 
@MartinBüttner fair enough
 
combining all three is boring, too... I think I just can't use circumcentre and centroid in one recursion to produce nice images.
let me check different patterns of incentre and circumcentre
 
what you need to do next is create a gif of a triangle with moving corners
 
interestingly the only nice combination of the two is {incentre, circumcentre}. picture coming up
all the others act more like the circumcentre where you have a small dark blob in the centre with a few points quite far out
the above gets quite chaotic for less regular triangles
 
2:21 PM
awesome
 
@MartinBüttner have you considered doing non-triangular shapes? inscribed and circumscribed circles are a thing for every shape, and easy to calculate for convex shapes, very easy for regular shapes.
 
but after the first step, it's all tesselated into triangles again, right?
 
Isogonal and isotomic conjugates might work well together.
 
nah, just more N-gons :)
and if you can support non-triangular regions, then instead of splitting a region based on just its vertices and center, you could do a voronoi diagram based on the vertices and center, intersected with the original shape.
 
@PeterTaylor that would be incentre vs orthocentre (e.g.)?
@Sparr nice idea. :) ... but I think for now there are some 5000 triangle centre definitions left to explore :D
 
2:26 PM
@MartinBüttner get on it! I'm only familiar with maybe a dozen.
 
The isogonal conjugate of the incentre is itself, and its isotomic conjugate is X(75).
 
@PeterTaylor Ah I see, I misinterpreted some diagram on wikipedia
 
I'm implementing And and Or. I'm not allowing parenthesis. Which one should have higher precedence?
 
@MartinBüttner Even things like {incentre, incentre, circumcentre}?
 
@overactor yup
 
2:29 PM
weird
 
actually, better idea
 
@overactor even more strangely, not even things like {in, circum, circum, in}
 
@COTO ping
 
I'm working on the Averages leaderboard. Should I count Python and Python 3 as separate?
 
@MartinBüttner What about something like {in, circum, in, circum, in, in}?
 
2:35 PM
@PhiNotPi I don't know enough about the differences to tell
@overactor nope
 
@MartinBüttner does it look nothing like {in, circum}?
 
no... maybe that blob in the centre does, but it's too small and dark to tell
 
what depth are you doing now anyway?
 
still 10
 
I'd love to see {in, circum} with smaller dots and higher depth
 
2:42 PM
hm, I'll need to crank up the image size... at depth 12 you just get a lot of black areas otherwise
depth 12 takes about 10s btw
 
@MartinBüttner should increase exponentially right?
 
by a factor of 3 per step, yes
 
so 16 woulds be around 20 minutes
17 in an hour ish
 
yeah, I don't think anything beyond 12 makes sense without opacity
 
@MartinBüttner yeah, looks like it
that six armed seestar thing at the middle is cool
what does the mummy one look like with these settings?
 
2:49 PM
I'll check in a minute... I'm currently trying depth 14 with opacity
 
hi
I hoping it is good now
I have worked hard to improve it
 
Updated the averages leaderboard. @MartinBüttner you're still winning
 
@PhiNotPi what about my question regarding functions? ;)
@PhiNotPi I'm also still leading in 8 languages :P
 
Fixed the 8.
 
@user2179021 You thanked me for my suggestion to make it language-agnostic but didn't change the question?
 
2:55 PM
I... don't really have a strong opinion on functions.
 
@PeterTaylor The data creation just requires you to run a script. You don't need to understand any python
 
Can someone slap this guy in the comments for me please? meta.stackexchange.com/q/238641/254466
He's acting like me when I'm angry. However, none of you ever slap me, so I never come back to reality.
 
@PeterTaylor I discussed it a little with@MartinBüttner and as I don't know how to make the data creation language agnostic we agreed I could create a script that outputted it to standard out
 
You don't need to understand it, but you do need to have it, which for some people will mean installing it.
 
@PeterTaylor right.. can you see a way around that?
 
2:58 PM
@PhiNotPi well if you allow them I can shorten a few submissions I think (at least Ruby)
 
@PeterTaylor maybe some online python interpreter?
 
My comment told you a way around it.
 
@Rainbolt FWIS, he's not quite a troll, but close. This is nothing new. Disengage :D
 
@PeterTaylor Or I could pose a question to write the data creation in umpteen languages
@PeterTaylor that would require me to implement np.random.uniform(low = 0.0, high = T, size = N)) I think
 
@Geobits Thank you. That is exactly what I needed to hear in order to focus on work again.
 
3:00 PM
I think stay away from functions for now, since most submissions are complete programs.
 
However, I will say that the chat box width has never bothered me.
 
You don't have to implement an identical test set to the current one, surely? The important thing is that everyone tests on the same data, not precisely what that data is.
But if you don't like that idea, another one is to stuff the generation code away in a footnote and to provide pastebin links to its output.
 
@Geobits It only bothers me when I type a long message, then change my mind about something. Hence the "small nitpick" title.
 
Obvious answer is obvious: Stop typing long messages or stop changing your mind ;)
 
@Geobits Technically that should be Stop typing long messages and changing your mind.
 
3:08 PM
I think if he stopped one or the other it would be fine. He said it only bothers him when both happen.
 
@Geobits what I menat to say is that he can still do both, just not during the same message
 
Right, but that adds an extra if. If he just stops one or the other cold, he doesn't have to check the other.
 
@Geobits nicely golfed there
should marginally increase execution time too
even more so if he stops changing his mind
 
Considering both options (long messages or editing) take more time than the alternatives (short or unedited), this should definitely show a speedup.
 
@Rainbolt I entirely agree with you, +1 for the question and for your comments.
 
3:12 PM
@Geobits he'll probably just split up the long messages in multiple smaller messages though
 
Btr2glfthm
 
did you type your password into the chat window again?
 
(better to golf them) ugh
 
ugh martin, its txtspk
omg
 
3:14 PM
@overactor Stop X OR Stop Y is equivalent to Stop X AND Y because of some law named after a guy whose name starts with an D
 
I don't see what people have against textspeak. It's just another esoteric golfing language :D
 
Someone help me out here lol. Can't work till I know this guy's name
 
do you mean DeMorgan?
 
Yes!
 
That doesn't start with an M
 
3:15 PM
When will you learn?
 
Hey Rainbolt, have you ever noticed that there's no comfortable position for your tongue in your mouth?
 
I did that with full knowledge of the time
 
@Geobits Why don't teenagers run compressing algorithms on their texts?
 
@overactor That went waaaaay over my head.
 
Txtspeak is just golfed English.
 
3:18 PM
@Rainbolt if you pay attention to it, you'll notice that your tongue is never quite commfortable in your mouth.
 
@overactor Because they're lazy. Have you ever met a teenager? :p
 
it's something to distract you from work
@Geobits I try to avoid it as much as I can.
 
@overactor If you think teenagers use txtspeak, you're showing your age. :P
 
@PeterTaylor Right, smartphones
 
@overactor On the one day you tried to pull this stunt, I happen to have a Jolly Rancher, and am now sucking on it victoriously.
 
3:20 PM
Victoriously? How does that work exactly?
 
@Rainbolt I shall bow my head in defeat for the next 48 hours.
 
is there a command line tool to upload a text file to a pastebin?
 
@Geobits On that topic, can anyone tell my why no one is interested in my rods?
 
@user2179021 There is a list of Pastebin tools here, you can have a look at that.
 
thanks
 
3:23 PM
@overactor I probably would have already done it, but I don't have Ruby here (and I can't be bothered to golf in an online interpreter)
 
@MartinBüttner My rods did seem to go right up your alley.
 
@user2179021 There is a command line tool called PastebinCL in the list, for UNIX based systems.
 
@overactor On what topic?
 
thanks
 
And there's also a command line in Ruby if you use another system than UNIX.
 
3:25 PM
I tried pastbinit but annoyingly you seem to need to have an account to download the pasted result!
 
@Geobits here:
4
Q: Counting rods; count your rods

overactorSome background Counting rods are small bars (3-14 cm long) that were used by mathematicians from many asian cultures for more than 2000 years to represent any whole number or fraction. There was also a written version, called rod numerals. Here's how it works: (If at any point you get confuse...

 
@user2179021 Oh, it's for paste.ubuntu.com. The tools I linked to are for pastebin.com.
 
Oh. Glanced at it, have other things to do (that don't really involve chatting here, but you know how that is).
 
yes, I do
btw, @MartinBüttner
my idea for a 2.5D platformer also involved multiple characters to choose from
but you can switch like in trine
but when a character dies, it stays dead
which limits your options as to which paths you can take and what extra content you can reach.
 
I see. interesting :)
 
3:30 PM
@overactor I reckoned it would take about half an hour to really understand the question, and I didn't think it looked interesting enough to be worth that kind of investment up front.
 
I also wanted to explore the 2.5D possibilities a bit more than Trine does. e.g. by having T junctions where the plane you walk in switches. or where the plane you move in is bent into a cylinder (climbing a tower)
 
@PeterTaylor fair enough
 
argh.. uploading these files to a pastebin isn't working at all
 
@MartinBüttner If I'm not mistaken, Trine 2 does that a bit more than Trine
 
@overactor not really, iirc
 
3:32 PM
@MartinBüttner It's been a while since I last played it
but that could indeed give a cool effect
 
we actually had T-junctions implemented. it worked quite well.
 
what sort of camera behaviour did you have?
 
what, in general? it followed the avatar quite smoothly
or for the T-junctions? there, the camera just swings around 90 degrees, with some funny motion-blur shader
that would probably need some improvement though, because we had to lock the controls during the swinging, so that it wouldn't be too disorienting
 
it does make designing the back-/foreground more difficult I imagine
 
3:38 PM
was it in unity3D?
 
no, all in C++ with OpenGL
 
@MartinBüttner cool
 
the best part was that we got to motion-capture the animations for free
 
If you ever start working on it again and I'm a better programmer by then, I'd love to help.
@MartinBüttner sweet, where?
 
well, our institute had a UI group, and they had equipment for that. some friends of ours were doing their final-year project with that professor. we helped them out writing some machine learning script and got to use the mo-cap equipment for a day in return ^^
 
3:42 PM
Oi. Today's xkcd threw my browser to 'not responding' for a minute while zooming too fast.
 
@Geobits You should stop zooming too fast then.
I gotta go
cyall
 
see you
@Geobits Mu.
 
@MartinBüttner It's down 0.11 today. What about it?
Wow it keeps falling :o
 
idontgetit
 
Googling 'mu' shows a stock ticker :D
 
3:47 PM
lol okay
I was referring to the Mu in the xkcd
 
I figured that, but Googling random things is a good way to alleviate boredom.
 
I thought you're busy :P
 
Also, I learned that Google shows updates to stocks in real time.
It's down over half a percent now.
Busy is relative.
Gotta do something while progress bars slowly fill up.
 
while we're talking about xkcd and progress bars...
 
Also relevant: xkcd.com/303
 
3:54 PM
yes
 
Unfortunately my workplace frowns on swordfights (even while compiling!), so internet it is.
 
how narrowminded
I'm still stumped that I have a really hard time thinking of more than 9 languages to do the averages in. I think I need to start looking into more. (I even have a list of languages to check out, but for some reason it never gets shorter.) maybe it's time I learned one of those golfing languages?
but how do I decide between GolfScript, CJam, J and APL?
 
Drop GolfScript from that list. I quite like it as a language, but CJam is a better golfing language.
 
@PeterTaylor I saw you on seasoned advice
 
4:07 PM
J or APL could potentially be useful to you in "real life".
@EricTressler, so you said yesterday.
 
@PeterTaylor are you me? a facsimile of me?
yeah, i know :|
 
@PeterTaylor So far I don't even really know what sets all of them apart.
 
@EricTressler, I think I'm slightly older than you, so you would have to be the facsimile of me.
 
I already have all the parts for a voodoo doll
 
@MartinBüttner, GS and CJam are roughly speaking golfed versions of a modern scripting language like Ruby. J and APL are more specialised in that they're designed for maths, and they have some nifty parallelisation features. The main difference between them seems from the outside to be the character set.
 
4:13 PM
@PeterTaylor I was just astonished to see you outside of your element. I mostly read the cooking pages for dishwasher fish
don't disabuse me of dishwasher fish
 
@PeterTaylor I see
This reminds that I also haven't used any truly functional language since some "Introduction to Programming Concepts" course 6 years ago
maybe Haskell, Lisp or Scheme would be interesting to learn as well
(@PeterTaylor going by that description, I'd probably pick J first... looking into different paradigms is probably a better learning experience than just looking into golfed versions of concepts I already know)
I should really make "One language a month" a thing
especially now that I know PPCG, it's really not too hard to find enough ways to practice a new language
 
 
1 hour later…
5:30 PM
@Martin, can I shortly ask your help with something?
 
is there somewhere one can update a 15MB file to make it available?
 
what file format?
 
5:45 PM
what is a site you guys think is poorly designed?
 
imdb.com could use some work
 
oh, timecube is horrid
 
@NathanMerrill The content or the design? :p
 
5:50 PM
design
 
You obviously haven't read it then.
 
well, depending on the content, it could count too
I have an assignment to find 5 poorly designed sites
my first thought was the site to download the JDK
and I found a problem with it :P
 
wow, that is one confusing site
Does anyone on here besides @Martin speak german?
 
I had 5 years of lessons, but failed to learn much
 
I'm doing an introduction to programming course for the third time now I think
anyway
any clue what exactly could be meant by:
Nennen und beschreiben Sie zwei bis drei regelhafte (Alltags-) Abläufe und ein (Automaten-) Programm.
I'm pretty sure Alltagsabläufe are meant to be algorithms used to describe something that happens in real life
but the (Automaten-)Programm is throwing me off
is it supposed to mean describe the way a certain automated machine might work?
 
6:05 PM
I think it's something along the lines of "State and describe 2 to 3 algorithms (of some sort I can't work out) and a machine"... I really don't what the last piece is
I've got a German friend whom I've passed it to, so I'll get back to you
 
oh, my favorite part of the timecube site is the background
 
0
Q: The Power of Command Prompt

Popey GilbertIntroduction Hello, for my third competition, I'm doing a popularity contest! This means that the person with the most votes wins. After taking inspiration from April Fools (A bit late, I do realize!), I felt that there just weren't enough for command prompt. Task To create a program that w...

vote to close?
@VisualMelon thanks, I asked my girlfriend (who is German) but she couldn't figure out exactly what was meant.
 
@overactor yeah, nor can my german friend ;P
 
mainly because she has no clue about anything programming related
I feel like it is very poorly worded
I'll go and have a look in the german language chat
if there is any activity there that is
 
let me know if you work it out
 
6:16 PM
@PeterTaylor hi.. meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/1847/… I hope it's ok now
could anyone take a look at meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/1847/… please
I would like to post it soon
@MartinBüttner I have attempted to address all the concerns in meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/1847/…
 
6:43 PM
Unbelievable. I just found this code buried in a function that I am 99% sure can't be hit unless the planets align just right.
temp.Add("popTartWithNoIcing");
temp.Add("Look@me");
temp.Add("til~deMorninComes");
Written by the same guy who writes every other quirky piece of code I come across
 
@Rainbolt How often does the program check if the planets are aligned just right though?
 
The only programmer whose code I enjoy finding no longer works here. Is that a sign?
@overactor To be precise, only when your name includes %40, %7E, and you somehow fall through this giant switch statement because your type is something unexpected.
I managed to piece together than %40 is HTML for @, and %7E is HTML for ~. But wtf does poptartwithnoicing mean?
 
@Rainbolt Maybe it's a sign that you're not supposed to write fun code?
 
Poptarts with no icing are grave sins committed by the manufacturer.
And they're only a few years old IIRC. It could just be a joke if it's old code, since they wouldn't have existed when written.
 
Poptarts with no icing exist AND they were a recent introduction? That sounds so backwards
 
6:51 PM
Nah, they just decided to get on the "healthy" kick along with everyone else. Not that a lack of frosting will convince anyone that they're healthy, but appearances rule marketing.
 
Agreed. That's not going to convince anyone. Maybe the goal is "get fat slower"?
 
The real question is: are they gluten-free?
 
I worked at Subway during the gluten free craze. Everyone and their mother was allergic to gluten. Very few people actually have celiac disease.
 
@MartinBüttner yay! Maybe people's opinions will change now that there is only one sandbox - maybe I should edit so people's old votes are no longer locked in
 
the best part is that gluten isn't actually bad for you
unless, of course, you have celiac disease
 
6:57 PM
I heard cheeseburgers without frosting are more healthy.
 
i have a friend who has Celiac. He's no fun at cookouts
 
In the US, about 1/105 actually do have it, but most don't show symptoms so that number's meaningless.
They'll act like it will kill them, though :D
 

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