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12:00 AM
Beats reading a list of coordinates...
It needs 1st-person POV.
I wonder if I could create an advanced-code-golf challenge to create a web browser.
I was just reading about the history of web browsers.
Who doesn't appreciate the simple beauty of Netscape Navigator? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Navigator_1-22.png
^ slightly sarcastic
1:02 AM
Better is that screenshot of wikipedia boasting 44k articles and wishing to expand to a whopping 100k :D
I wonder what sort of requirements I would have to set to make a web browser feasible.
2:02 AM
@PhiNotPi you don't need out of band communication for a "negotiation" game. iterated prisoner's dilemma proves that.
@NathanMerrill would you mind if I try eliminating the io problems with the pacman controller?
1 hour later…
3:18 AM
@Sparr what problems?
the IOException and EOF situations you mention
3:32 AM
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIV

es10244-Person Standoff tags: king-of-the-hill Description You've somehow landed yourself into a four-way standoff. You have a gun loaded with 10 bullets, and a grenade hidden in your coat. The objective is simple: stay alive, or at least have the least deformed corpse if everyone dies. Each playe...

4:03 AM
@Sparr, that would be great, but not sure if its possible. My code is pretty messy, I wrote it in a rush. You'll want to look in the Player class
yeah, I'm looking at it
have to write a bot to test with first :)
your spec says you send the maze size before sending the desc
but your controller code doesn't
4:27 AM
also, windows newlines...??
4:38 AM
and you're sending "0xA" instead of just "A" for the maze description
4:49 AM
I just got "spam/offensive" flags on my icon here. And I thought I had fucked up somewhere. But when I clicked and read, I realized I didn't write that. Then I realized the significance of the flag being in blue, meaning a mod-tools review kind of thing. I didn't know I could do that in chat!
1 hour later…
@Sparr, saving koth challenges again?
maybe :)
rep whoring, actually. if the controller/challenge actually works, I get more upvotes for my dumb bot :p
fair enough
dogfighting isn't taking off it seems..
I wonder if I should slap a bounty on it
6:13 AM
wish my wrapper was tested more before it got more attention, but it's your call now
I'm torn up between the two as well
Maybe I should write a python entry or so
your feedback on improving the wrapper, or acceptance of it, would be worth a lot
The wrapper will definitely be an official part of the challenge before I put up a bounty
Unfortunately, writing an entry with the wrapper is way more difficult than in java.
But at least it provides the choice
and with an example entry, things will get better I bet.
I included a dumb plane, didn't I? :p
Should be plenty for anyone ^^
I tried to ping you in the dogfight chat, didn't get through?
2 hours later…
8:22 AM
ok, submitted three entries to pacman
ranging from imbecilic to not very smart
still, good test dummies for other entries, I guess
had to write one just to run the controller at all :|
@NathanMerrill I'd love to chat with you about the pacman controller and contest
8:35 AM
@Sparr, could I heavily use your code to make my pacman?
sure. it's not very good. I wish there were some helper classes to borrow like in dogfight :)
also, there's coordinate mixup in some of my code
I think I've got half the array transposed
but I'm too tired to fix it right now, and it works, so I'm leaving it until tomorrow
I'll see what I can make of it
my python is practically non-existant though.
I've got to say, I think helper classes are a huge plus for more complex koth challenges
and rather speak for a single language approach
of course even better would be writing some boilerplate code to handle reading the input and formatting the output and some helper classes for entries in several languages
But that's a ton of work.
I'm off to bed. I expect you to have a better pacman than mine by morning!
I'll try my best
See you
@overactor well you could write a really sophisticated controller which allows entries to poll data via stdin/stdout commands
basically, while it's waiting for the bot's move it can respond to different kinds of output with additional data
8:46 AM
won't that be rather slow?
with persistent pipes it doesn't have to be that slow... but it seems like the most practical solution without writing helpers in 5 languages
yeah, you could still write the code that handles the input and output of course
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIV

professorfishImplement nl code-golf Your task is to implement a program similar to the nl program from the GNU core utilities. Standard loopholes are banned. You may not use any built-in or external function, program or utility for numbering the lines of a file or string, such as nl itself or the = command...

9:05 AM
At some point these koth challenges should really get more standardized.
There has been a meta question with that intention right?
and I think Rainbolt might start work on something once he's back from his vacation
Found it
He's probably the right man for that task
9:49 AM
does anyone here have an account on HN? I posted the tweetable maths challenge there, in hopes that we might inspire some more people from around the webz to submit amazing answers... so if you wouldn't mind giving it an upvote... news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8130969 ;)
if someone has a reddit account, I'm sure there's a subreddit that would love to see this, too
10:18 AM
the internet was down for a bit and I decided I'd golf a Levenshtein distance calculator
123 characters :D
l=lambda a,b,c,d:max(c,d)if min(c,d)<1 else min((i[0])+l(a,b,*i[1:])for i in[[1,c-1,d],[1,c,d-1],[a[c-1]!=b[d-1],c-1,d-1]])
that's totally what I would do if the internet was down
it's really slow though
oh i remember that
(better remove the onebox there)
10:22 AM
"He's a ballchinian!"
I also pondered simulating the entire web as an ecosystem and comparing searches to pages (and pages to each other) using Bray–Curtis dissimilarity to make a search engine
10:56 AM
2 hours later…
12:59 PM
language that I want to see the most:
then create it! :P
if I can ever be bothered to look into creating my own programming languages I really wanna try make one where spaces are valid identifier names and parameters can go inside a function identifier (smalltalk style)
then you could have define a function like Is [Rectangle] a square? and if Jimmy is the potential square you're dealing with, you'd just call it like Is Jimmy a square?. Resolving ambiguities will be fun...
I guess it would be awesome enough if you could call it like Is [Jimmy] a square?
That does sound cool
would the same work for variables?
I was wondering about that
(spaces in identifier)
without the square brackets probably not
1:08 PM
seems very difficult to do then
actually I think the square brackets are necessary
otherwise you can't distinguish between function calls Foo [bar] blah yadda and Foo bar [blah] yadda
when you have those square brackets then it should be possible for variable names too
or you can structure it like a natural language
Seems like it, you never really need two variable names next to eachother I suppose
get this simulate this console
equiv to print(this.simulate(this))
@MartinBüttner It would be interesting if the thing could detect that a Foo ___ blah yadda function existed and that a bar variable existed and intelligently decide which one actually makes sense. That would be fun to program. :D
1:10 PM
the problem with this stuff it that it'll become really awkward when you use it an if statement...
@Doorknob yeah but what if both functions exist
(and both variables)
Warn the programmer upon compiling that there is potential ambiguity?
Ideally the compiler/interpreter would resolve such ambiguities in an obscure way without giving any kind of warning.
if get this willSimulate exec get this Simulate console null
@githubphagocyte I like that! :D
1:11 PM
if this.willSimulate: print(this.Simulate())
@Trimsty I have no idea what that does and I really wonder what natural language you're speaking
I think overactor's approach makes more real world sense but I was thinking for entertaining questions on code golf...
wow, natural language is uglier than I thought :I
@MartinBüttner verb-object-subject
yoda-speak? no that's o-v-s
can you have a variable name that starts with if?
1:12 PM
no it's o-s-v actually
@overactor yes but it can't have spaces
a yoda language would be awesome though
but no all whitespace variable names?
@overactor was wondering about that too, but I'd say no, there would still be reserved keywords
A: Strangest language feature

MZBLet's have a vote for all languages (such as PL/I) that tried to do away with reserved words. Where else could you legally write such amusing expressions as: IF IF THEN THEN = ELSE ELSE ELSE = THEN (IF, THEN, ELSE are variable names) or IF IF THEN THEN ELSE ELSE (IF is a variable, THEN a...

1:13 PM
I can't remember if timlan supports osv, or sov...;
so keyword followed by space in a variable or function name is disallowed?
(timlan is designed as a VOS language)
@Doorknob in python; func(*i*(2*2)for i in[2*2]*2)
@githubphagocyte lol no... don't wanna reinvent whitespace
1:15 PM
it calls func(16, 16), but, wow, that's stupid looking xD
probably want to rule out leading and trailing whitespace then
15 to some integer assign // someInteger = 15;
yeah, I'd say identifiers have to start or end with non-whitespace
and I'd try to allow as many ASCII characters as possible in identifiers
@Doorknob I just tried to upvote that answer but then noticed it's locked...
especially punctuation
(or even Unicode)
1:16 PM
I once tried to design an esolang with gravity on a 2d board
maybe "and" should be a reserved keyword?
like, k would print k
@Trimsty I'm now completely lost
@overactor sounds fine to me, no variable or function should encapsulate two concepts :P
a blank program is a cat program
1:17 PM
@githubphagocyte he does that
since user input falls in from the top
i do :D
ah I see
that's actually quite interesting
how do you write loops?
@MartinBüttner MAGNETS :DD
does control flow only exist through the flow of variables?
@MartinBüttner yup
1:19 PM
magnets? portals!
@MartinBüttner and huge fans
(you knew this was coming)
@MartinBüttner lol
What if you also integrated cellular automata so you could have langton's ant or something?
1:20 PM
I fixed my bot finally on that King of the Hill Question.
58 secs ago, by Martin Büttner
Ok, plan B: Fly a kite into the blades, with a rock in a sling dangling below it, and create the world's largest trebuchet.
I don't know what langton's ant is
Langton's ant is a two-dimensional Turing machine with a very simple set of rules but complicated emergent behavior. It was invented by Chris Langton in 1986 and runs on a square lattice of black and white cells. The universality of Langton's ant was proven in 2000. The idea has been generalized in several different ways, such as turmites which add more colors and more states. == Rules == Squares on a plane are colored variously either black or white. We arbitrarily identify one square as the "ant". The ant can travel in any of the four cardinal directions at each step it takes. The ant moves...
that's amazing
Tweetable Turmites picture coming right up!
@MartinBüttner yes it is
(not really, I need to work)
1:21 PM
@MartinBüttner What is "work"
whoa, two rows of users in chat!
this mysterious thing
called productivity
your powers do not work here
time has been known to quicken in this realm
@Trimsty do things fall through the board in parallel?
@MartinBüttner I only have one, but it's about 75% full
@MartinBüttner like, downward o:
1:23 PM
@Trimsty well yes... but could there be multiple variables falling around... because that would immediately give you race conditions but also a way to parallelise things
...+190 rep today...
@Trimsty I already capped :D
@MartinBüttner yeah, they do fall in parallel
third day in a row from four posts
@Trimsty that's horrible. I like it!
@MartinBüttner wow, nice
@MartinBüttner it's an esolang, it's supposed to be bad
1:24 PM
I predict that we'll have our next 10k user within 24 hours
@MartinBüttner I JUST CAPPED
@Doorknob really? O.O
don't tell me that someone already did a "True Random" Bot
I'd have to get three answers accepted... or just wait until tomorrow morning :D
@MartinBüttner Well, you're only 5 upvotes away. :D
1:25 PM
where's my badge :c
@Doorknob (I know... hence the obvious exaggeration. :P)
@Trimsty badges are slow
Guys, do you think a Venn Diagram Generator Code golf challenge in order to celebrate John Venn's birthday is too trivial?
Ah, my sarcasm detector doesn't work as well at night. :P
@WilliamBarbosa you'd have to set it up in one day
@WilliamBarbosa depends...
1:27 PM
@WilliamBarbosa depends on what exactly you'll ask
You input three sets and the code outputs a drawing of a 3 set venn diagram, no big deal. Unless you have some better ideas.
Do the names of elements need to be printed in the diagram?
I think I might need a moderator to decipher whether or not my bot is the same as another bot, the outcome is the same but I am thinking that the method of getting there is comically different.
I think that could actually be quite hard for three arbitrary sets.
@Malachi which challenge?
@overactor Yup, something like this
1:33 PM
There might be languages that are too good at that sort of stuff, you should probably watch out for that.
Q: How to plot Venn diagrams with Mathematica?

Vladimir PutinHow does one plot Venn diagrams with Mathematica? I've searched quite a bit and I've found one source at MathWorld which provides the source code for doing them. But I don't understand this code, can someone help me?

@MartinBüttner here are the two answers Theirs and then mine
A: The Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock Tournament of Epicness

Dr R DizzleEdward Scissorhands No one had made a Scissor spam bot, so I did. puts 'S' Run as ruby EdwardScissorhands.rb Daenerys Targaryen No one had made a Lizards spam bot either, so I did that too. Rains fire down on her enemies. puts 'L' Run as ruby Khaleesi.rb

A: The Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock Tournament of Epicness

MalachiDice Throw Bot, C# Truly Random using System; using Microsoft.CSharp; using Microsoft.Win32.SafeHandles; using System.Collections.Generic; using System.Linq; public static void Main (string[] args) { var computerPlay = GetRandomOption(gameGestures); IList<Gesture> gameGestures = GetGes...

@overactor still it would be tough if you need to fit all of the elements in
ping me, I have some SQL to work on
@MartinBüttner First thing I thought. I don't think I can forbid Mathematica, though
1:35 PM
@Malachi I'd be careful with that... a) it is the same as the other one. b) meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/1061/…
I see. I didn't see that post when I went through to check the second time.
I think I may tweak it later
@Malachi there is a list of the simpler ones in the question itself if you wanna check before the next attempt
@Trimsty that gravity language sounds really interesting the more I think about it
it's basically Manufactoria 2.0
in mental
@MartinBüttner I am going to do a real Dice Roll that is Recursive, so that if 6(5) is rolled it will automatically re-roll
doesn't that still result in a uniform distribution?
not if I throw a couple of Wait's in there. I am not that advanced of a programmer where I can think of a better one off the top of my head
hopefully it doesn't hit 6 over and over again, right?
could crash something
1:45 PM
it's unlikely that it will
if I don't put any wait times in there it could.
my point is, the result will be no different from your initial attempt
@Malachi why would it?
rand.Next does not depend on the time between calls
if the first one is 6 there is a high possibility that one called immediately following it will also call 6, this wouldn't be the case if I were using a larger range like say 100 or 1000
(or whatever your language's equivalent is)
I the RPSLS challenge protected yet?
1:47 PM
if I call
@overactor no. should it be?
the answers given the range of 0-5 are likely to be the same
because of the time in-between calls being minimal
@Malachi I highly doubt that
that isn't how it works
that should happen in about 1 out of 6 cases
which may seem more to you than you'd expect intuitively
the random object is not truly random, how does it work if not the way that I think? is it not seeded by the machine clock?
it is, but it's only seeded once
@Malachi it's seeded yes, but that's only at the beginning
@MartinBüttner with over 70 entries an many possible extremely lazily implemented bots
after that it obtains further numbers from some funny number theory/modulo/prime magic
(Mersenne twister or something)
1:50 PM
I see...
Which don't add any value to the contest...
@overactor might as well protect it then
It's just a suggestion of course
done ^^
Wait, do good users from other sites have at least 100 rep on every site they sign up on?
1:53 PM
@overactor Yes they do, once you get 200rep on one site you start with 100 on the others
@overactor yes but that doesn't count
@overactor yep
for protected questions you still need to earn 10 extra rep here to answer
@MartinBüttner it does, I can post on a question when I come in at 101 I am pretty sure.
@Malachi not on protected questions
A: What is a “protected” question?

waiwai933What does it mean for a question to be protected? Protected questions have the additional restriction that new users are not permitted to answer the question. Unlike locked questions, they can still be edited, commented on, and voted on. You can even vote to close them. Why are some questions...

see "Who can answer..."
1:55 PM
I wonder if protected questions should also be inaccessible to users with lowish rep and a rocky posting history.
Using a horrible memory cheap method I've created a 3566 by 1345 solution for the 4-way multiplexer. I don't think this is good enough; only took 3 minutes to solve though ;)
As in people who get many down votes and close/delete votes.
@VisualMelon if it's a working solution that's all we need for a start :D
@overactor their accounts usually already have a lock of another kind on them
@MartinBüttner I always assumed that it counted the association bonus
thanks for the information
@Doorknob Just notifying you; the OP of the short story question has replied to your comment but they misspelled your name, so you probably won't get an inbox notification.

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